How Pony is Formed: Production and Business Thread

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Re: How Pony is Formed: Production and Business Thread

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:08 pm

What, the season isn't even done yet? I thought that the show was going to air same time as EQG 3. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:35 pm

No, with this week's episode we will be only halfway through S5. Today Hasbro said that the rest of S5 would air later this year.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:44 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Seriously, if I was there at Comic Con, I'd personally ask them what the hell they were thinking. Just...stupid! :facehoof:

Stupid? They're getting low ratings because everyone's away, it's better to start it later again. They probably realized they made a mistake airing the season too late/too soon. (Too late after the last one, yet too soon for 'TV season').
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Postby Illuminations (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:49 pm

They were either going to have to air Season 5 in April like they actually did, or as an alternative, prolong the release of Season 5 until September at the latest.....if and only if they wanted to avoid the summer television drought. That is a lose-lose situation for them.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:58 am

Illuminations wrote:They were either going to have to air Season 5 in April like they actually did, or as an alternative, prolong the release of Season 5 until September at the latest.....if and only if they wanted to avoid the summer television drought. That is a lose-lose situation for them.

It really was. I kind of want to know what forced them to do it this late, because putting themselves in such a situation doesn't seem like a choice.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:27 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:It really was. I kind of want to know what forced them to do it this late, because putting themselves in such a situation doesn't seem like a choice.


Given the timing, I rather strongly suspect it had to do with the Hub/Discovery Family thing. IIRC FiM is the most popular show on the channel by far, so it was probably a major bargaining chip during negotiations. So they delayed scheduling it until negotiations were done, and at that point it was either a year and a half between seasons or air during the summer.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:06 am

I don't know if Pony was used as a bargaining chip or not, but I definitely think that the changeover from Hub to Discovery had a huge impact on the delayed release date.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:16 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:Stupid? They're getting low ratings because everyone's away, it's better to start it later again. They probably realized they made a mistake airing the season too late/too soon. (Too late after the last one, yet too soon for 'TV season').


Yeah, sorry if I got carried away there, I wrote that when it was really late and I was tired and stuff. I've come to accept it now as it's not really that long of a wait and hopefully, it'll mean there won't be anymore extremely long, 11 month gaps between episodes.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:22 pm

According to Sibsy, she's been working on Pony Season 6.

She also mentioned that she's taking one of the episodes assigned to her off and giving to someone else because she hasn't had a break in years (and also so she can marry MandoPony)
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:54 pm

Jim Miller answered a question of mine on Twitter, and he will be taking over as Supervising Director on the show with Jayson moving on to direct the movie.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:05 pm

Makes sense, he's been more involved and this will be a natural transition.

Of course, what Jayson does after the movie (if there is still a show) is the question.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:44 pm

Assuming Hasbro wants to start generation 5 of MLP after the 2017 movie, I imagine that at least a fair number of FiM's crew will go to work on that show as well. Or he could work on something else that DHX is making at that time.
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Postby Master_Twig (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:05 am

It would be interesting to jump to the future and see what G5 is like. 3 to 4 was a pretty huge change in tone and style. I have a feeling that 4 to 5 won't be quite as drastic. For the sake of all the future young girls, that G5 is just as good.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:20 am

I still think it's likely G5 will be a "sequel" to G4. Same universe, possibly some same characters. I think the movie might even serve as the ending of G4 and lead in to G5.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:10 am

I imagine that G5 will either keep all the characters or none of them. That is to say, I do not expect we'll see something like G3 Rainbow Dash vs. G4 Rainbow Dash, where they're almost completely different except for their name and basic color scheme. To that end, my money's on a whole new cast of characters, as there's only so many stories that you can tell with any given cast. Keeping the same world seems quite doable, though, especially considering the amount of lore that's been developed for Equestria.

What I'm really curious about is how the art style will change. I can't really imagine G5's style will go back to the (relatively) more horselike designs of G3 and before, but it'll still need to look visually distinct from this generation and still look enough like a pony to justify the "My Little Pony" name.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:18 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Assuming Hasbro wants to start generation 5 of MLP after the 2017 movie, I imagine that at least a fair number of FiM's crew will go to work on that show as well. Or he could work on something else that DHX is making at that time.

It really depends, and it's possible not that many really transfer over. Especially if past experiences are anything to go off of. Beast Machines had barely anyone involved with Beast Wars except the voice actors, and same with the Transformers Unicron Trilogy.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:01 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:I imagine that G5 will either keep all the characters or none of them. That is to say, I do not expect we'll see something like G3 Rainbow Dash vs. G4 Rainbow Dash, where they're almost completely different except for their name and basic color scheme. To that end, my money's on a whole new cast of characters, as there's only so many stories that you can tell with any given cast. Keeping the same world seems quite doable, though, especially considering the amount of lore that's been developed for Equestria.

What I'm really curious about is how the art style will change. I can't really imagine G5's style will go back to the (relatively) more horselike designs of G3 and before, but it'll still need to look visually distinct from this generation and still look enough like a pony to justify the "My Little Pony" name.


I doubt they'll keep the same characters. One of the perils of a show targeted at a young demographic is they don't stay young; someone who was 7 when the show started would be 12 now, and someone currently 7 would be less likely to start watching a show with years of history. And it hasn't been long enough to hit G4 nostalgia with now grown adults with kids of their own. Probably one of the big goals with a G5 show would be to attract a whole new set of young kids who'd never seen FiM, which probably means starting mostly from scratch.

They might use the same world, but even that could go either way. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere Hasbro is setting up the design requirements for G5, and right at the top in big bold type is Fresh start for new viewers. At the same time, though, they have to know they hit upon quality with Equestria and FiM, so I'd be surprised if it doesn't take a good amount of inspiration from it.

A lot depends on what other recent Hasbro shows have done, though, and I admit I'm not well versed there.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:33 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:I imagine that G5 will either keep all the characters or none of them. That is to say, I do not expect we'll see something like G3 Rainbow Dash vs. G4 Rainbow Dash, where they're almost completely different except for their name and basic color scheme. To that end, my money's on a whole new cast of characters, as there's only so many stories that you can tell with any given cast. Keeping the same world seems quite doable, though, especially considering the amount of lore that's been developed for Equestria.

What I'm really curious about is how the art style will change. I can't really imagine G5's style will go back to the (relatively) more horselike designs of G3 and before, but it'll still need to look visually distinct from this generation and still look enough like a pony to justify the "My Little Pony" name.


I kinda think it might.

FiM's visual style, as much fun as it is, is extremely idiosyncratic and doesn't really lend itself to the kind of easy translation to physical toys that the more designed-by-committee styles of G1/Tales/G3 did. They hired Lauren Faust to bring in a highly personal vision, and she did—but as much as it was to the benefit of the cartoon, it was to the detriment of the toys. Translating her style to toys that convey the same sense of fun as the animated characters they're based on works only marginally better than, say, Homestar Runner. (In fact I bust up laughing every time I see H*R figurines with their impossible 3D shapes, like they're saying "fuck you" to the time-space continuum.) G4 pony toys look like Disney goldfish with horse bodies attached. They simply don't read as "horses", nor do I imagine they tickle the horse obsession nerve that little girls are reputed to have.

This is just me extrapolating from my own personal tastes and reactions, but I kinda wonder whether Hasbro might be itching to get back to a visual cartoon style they can grok better. Sure, the FiM toys might be selling great, but I think that's purely because the show is such a powerhouse, not because they look like horses that little kids would want to play with if they found them in their backyard sandboxes. I'll bet Hasbro wants to get back to a place where they're leading with the toys again; and to do that, they'd have to commission a visual art style that retreats from the "personal vision" angle they experimented with with Lauren.

Of course we'll all see. But whatever they do with G5 will kind of tell me the answer to one of the riddles that's been bugging me ever since this show became popular: what does Hasbro really think of how this whole Lauren Faust experience has gone down? What lessons are they going to take from it? Has it revolutionized toy-driven cartoon-making, or will it go down in history as an aberration?
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:21 am

I personally think that Hasbro has learned from this in the fact that they need to put more effort into the shows they make in order for it to catch...I can't see G5 completely devolving back into something like G3.
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Postby MurdER_weapOn '78 (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:49 am

I hope the G5 ponies don't look like ponies :gotcha:


My other fear is that the show could be CGI :barf:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:39 am

I think Hasbro would stay away from CGI...really, when you think about it, CGI really didn't take off for cartoons on TV as people hoped.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:30 am

It sure did for low-budget pre-school cartoons, the kind where you basically just need a bunch of brightly colored spheres bouncing around. But try to appeal to an older audience and suddenly you're competing with the Pixars of the world.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:56 pm

Headless Horse wrote:
I kinda think it might.

FiM's visual style, as much fun as it is, is extremely idiosyncratic and doesn't really lend itself to the kind of easy translation to physical toys that the more designed-by-committee styles of G1/Tales/G3 did. They hired Lauren Faust to bring in a highly personal vision, and she did—but as much as it was to the benefit of the cartoon, it was to the detriment of the toys. Translating her style to toys that convey the same sense of fun as the animated characters they're based on works only marginally better than, say, Homestar Runner. (In fact I bust up laughing every time I see H*R figurines with their impossible 3D shapes, like they're saying "fuck you" to the time-space continuum.) G4 pony toys look like Disney goldfish with horse bodies attached. They simply don't read as "horses", nor do I imagine they tickle the horse obsession nerve that little girls are reputed to have.

Does that supposed horse obsession really even matter, though? Consider how the EqG toys apparently seem to be selling incredibly well despite their fairly mediocre quality and originality (vs. Monster High and Ever After High). It seems like they're selling primarily based on the strength of the original FiM characters, so I think that shows to Hasbro that making characters that kids care about is what's most important, not whether they happen to look like horses.

That's why I doubt G5 will go back in that aspect. Hell, maybe Hasbro will even start making clothes for the G5 pony toys, as a way of capturing some of EqG's appeal and collectability.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:26 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:I think Hasbro would stay away from CGI...really, when you think about it, CGI really didn't take off for cartoons on TV as people hoped.

They went with CGI for Transformers Prime. They could, as it means easier show-accurate toys.
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Postby Marimo (?) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:52 pm

Though I suspect the use of CGI was at least partially to make it look closer to the movies.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:43 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Does that supposed horse obsession really even matter, though? Consider how the EqG toys apparently seem to be selling incredibly well despite their fairly mediocre quality and originality (vs. Monster High and Ever After High). It seems like they're selling primarily based on the strength of the original FiM characters, so I think that shows to Hasbro that making characters that kids care about is what's most important, not whether they happen to look like horses.


That's the question, isn't it? Has FiM changed Hasbro's mind from "we must make horse toys, they will sell to girls" to "we must sell a storytelling property with strong characters and good merchandisability, oh btw they're horses fyi"?

Because that would pretty much be a sea change in their business model.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:56 am

Headless Horse wrote:
That's the question, isn't it? Has FiM changed Hasbro's mind from "we must make horse toys, they will sell to girls" to "we must sell a storytelling property with strong characters and good merchandisability, oh btw they're horses fyi"?

Because that would pretty much be a sea change in their business model.


I think what Hasbro learned from FiM is "The right talent can spin straw into gold." How they take that lesson when it comes to a hypothetical G5 is going to be an interesting question.

As for the designs, I have no idea. It's true they don't look very horse like but they're also extremely adorable, which is going to attract kids whether they look like horses or not.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:48 am

Yeah, I think Hasbro learned that you can attract a lot more people with a quality product instead of a shoddy one.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:07 pm

It's not so much that the toys themselves have to be good (see what I said abut the EqG toys not really measuring up to their competitors, or look at how the actual pony toys tend to be much less varied in poses and expressions than G3 and earlier toys were) as it is that the characters used in the toys have to be appealing. I think Hasbro figured this out post-MMC, when they largely started taking toy ideas from the show instead of coming up with toy ideas and forcing the show to use them.
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Postby Pocket (?) » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:32 pm

It's good to know that Hasbro is finally learning this after over 30 years in the business. :-I
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:41 am

30 years in which it can hardly be said they don't know how to make money.





(They've actually been around a hell of a lot longer than that)
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:47 am

I thought Hasbro was around since at least the 50's, they made Mr. Potato Head back then.
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Postby Frosthawk (?) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:51 am

A 10-second Wikipedia run tells me that Hasbro started out in 1923, producing textile remnants, much like they do to this day!
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:54 pm

Earlier today I was posting about that unofficial pony art tutorial book that's coming out in November. One of the pages in the Amazon preview was this:
Fizzbuzz wrote:Image


Well, later on I remembered what I was saying in this thread about how G5's style might look, and I think a design like the one at the bottom of this page would work pretty well. I get that feeling since I think it's possible that Hasbro might want G5 ponies to normally wear clothes, so as to have more merchandise options for toys, so making them look slightly more anthro like that would give them a reason to be dressed while still keeping them reminiscent enough of a pony to justify the My Little Pony name. It could make the characters more appealing and endearing in the show, too, since if they stand upright then that gives them more room for bodily expressions.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:52 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:Well, later on I remembered what I was saying in this thread about how G5's style might look, and I think a design like the one at the bottom of this page would work pretty well. I get that feeling since I think it's possible that Hasbro might want G5 ponies to normally wear clothes, so as to have more merchandise options for toys, so making them look slightly more anthro like that would give them a reason to be dressed while still keeping them reminiscent enough of a pony to justify the My Little Pony name. It could make the characters more appealing and endearing in the show, too, since if they stand upright then that gives them more room for bodily expressions.


I'm honestly not sure how I'd feel about it. Not that there's anything wrong with it; the same concept has been done with Mickey Mouse and uncounted other semi-anthro cartoon characters. But I kind of like that the ponies are not pretending to be human and it occasionally comes up, even if they act less horsey these days then they did in the first few seasons.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:33 am

I suppose some of that just comes down to my personal thoughts on that sort of thing, then. In my opinion, bringing up the horsiness of the characters is best done in cases when it'd be cute and/or funny; to do it to prove a point about the world (as often happened in S1) struck me as interesting at first but soon became mildly annoying. To that end, even if G5's ponies looked like that, I think there'd still be plenty of room for horsie jokes like what I describe.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:15 am

If the pony design was to be used during S5, I really wouldn't mind that. :allears:
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Postby Pocket (?) » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:01 pm

Headless Horse wrote:(They've actually been around a hell of a lot longer than that)

They've only been in the cartoon biz since the '80s though
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:18 pm

Transformers was their first major success in that field, right?
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:50 pm

Marimo wrote:Though I suspect the use of CGI was at least partially to make it look closer to the movies.


Except for the fact that Transformer CGI was in use on television before the movies were even in production? That doesn't make any sense.

ROBOT B9 wrote:Transformers was their first major success in that field, right?


No, GI Joe was their first big 80s success. Even still they had successful lines before that, such as their board games and Mr. Potato Head.
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