Offseason General Show Chat

here a forum about pony (General Pony Talk)

Moderators: Perrydotto, Dexanth, Venusy, Wayoshi

Re: Offseason General Show Chat

Postby londonarbuckle (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:33 am

Marioland1 wrote:By having Twilight revoke her alicorn status and powers so that she can remain on the same level as her friends to prove that she values their friendship more than any amount of magical power in the world?

That actually sounds like an epic way to end it.


I can see that appeal to that ending, but I seriously doubt they'd actually do it.
Image: The Return of Me Having a Signature
londonarbuckle
User avatar
see those OCs with their long curly manes
goodnight to the brony era
cause they don't need you anymore
little mare, colt, mare
cooooooooooooooooooooooollllllt
Princesses of Soul
Joined: Oct 17, 2011
Location: HTX
Gender: Male

Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:49 am

The show ends with...no ending. The last episode is just another ordinary episode.
Mr. Big
User avatar
Feeling witchy, aren't we?
Scootaloo's Pro Scooters
Joined: Mar 27, 2011
Location: TN
Gender: Male

Postby Sobana (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:28 am

That is how all the previous generations ended. Makes me sad thinking about the the possible things that could of happened. :fluttersmith:
Image
Sobana
User avatar
Destroyer of Love
Joined: Feb 23, 2012
Location: Next Tuesday

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:02 am

londonarbuckle wrote:
I can see that appeal to that ending, but I seriously doubt they'd actually do it.


As do I. The others becoming alicorns is far more likely, as it has more marketing value, more so than just slightly changing the manes of the dolls from season to season. It'll be like a big "Hey, buy our toys one last time before the new show" thing.

Sobana wrote:That is how all the previous generations ended. Makes me sad thinking about the the possible things that could of happened. :fluttersmith:


Everyone gets killed off and/or it was all a dream?
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby Doctor Zoidberg, Homeowner (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:47 am

They'll probably make alicorn toys out of all of them at some point, even if it doesn't ever happen in the show. :-I Much like how none of the Newborn Cutie mold reuse characters ever showed up (anyone remember Princess Skyla?).
Doctor Zoidberg, Homeowner
User avatar
I got these robes on sale
Joined: Oct 27, 2014

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:34 pm

londonarbuckle wrote:If the show gets a proper finale, I'm starting to think there's no way they won't all be alicorns. Really, how else could they possibly end it? :pinkieshrug:

I expect that this'll happen at the end of the series, too. And at that point it would need to be the end, since I'm not really sure where the show would go with them after that (since, presumably, Celestia and Luna would've stepped aside and left them to rule Equestria). Hell, even if the show did that spinoff starting the CMC and friends, they (and Spike, if he were in it as well) most likely wouldn't have particularly normal teenage years, what with their connections to the reigning princesses of the land.
Image
Fizzbuzz
User avatar
Stare Masters
Joined: Mar 02, 2013
Location: TN
Gender: Male

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:40 pm

Bakertoons wrote:The show ends with...no ending. The last episode is just another ordinary episode.


While that may have worked for the older episodes, I think the showrunners here would try to do something spectacular.
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:42 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:
While that may have worked for the older episodes, I think the showrunners here would try to do something spectacular.

That's why I feel like the 2017 movie might be FiM's finale. It'd be a hell of a way to go out, so long as Hasbro doesn't want to continue FiM past that.
Image
Fizzbuzz
User avatar
Stare Masters
Joined: Mar 02, 2013
Location: TN
Gender: Male

Postby ilcane87 (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:54 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:That's why I feel like the 2017 movie might be FiM's finale. It'd be a hell of a way to go out, so long as Hasbro doesn't want to continue FiM past that.

They just hinted of things to come after the movie, though you can take that as you will:
https://twitter.com/mktoon/status/543588276146167808

Personally, I find it unlikely that the conclusion of the series will be planned so much in advance that they can build a Season or a Movie around it, I expect them to keep making big open-ended finale episodes like MMC and TK, so when some day Hasbro happens to not green-light any new Seasons, that will work as the ending.

The life of the series relies on toy sales after all, it will go on as long as they do, and stop as soon as they do.
ilcane87
User avatar
:allears: ~ So Many Wonders
Joined: Dec 03, 2012

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:58 pm

Hmm...could always be a spinoff or something else. Interesting... :ponder:
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby Angel Beat (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:03 pm

The Flash Sentry movie




:gotcha:
ImageImage
Avatar by Karzahnii, image used with permission.
Angel Beat
User avatar
~Nerf this! >:3~
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Jul 11, 2013
Location: Harlingen, the Netherlands
Gender: Male

Postby Sobana (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:30 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Hmm...could always be a spinoff or something else. Interesting... :ponder:

:whyme: "Can you do that? Can you explode spin-off twice?!"
Image
Sobana
User avatar
Destroyer of Love
Joined: Feb 23, 2012
Location: Next Tuesday

Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:49 pm

londonarbuckle wrote:If the show gets a proper finale, I'm starting to think there's no way they won't all be alicorns. Really, how else could they possibly end it? :pinkieshrug:


Both season 3 and 4 had great ending sequences that would have left me satisfied if they were the finale. I mean, "Let the rainbow remind you" alone? That would have been a really awesome ending and bronies would casually drop random mane 6 colored rainbow patterns all over the internet for years :v:

Making them all alicorns seems like too much :-I
Image
Highbrow Dash
User avatar
but why would you post such a thing??
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Oct 15, 2011
Location: Spain
Gender: Male

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:40 pm

ilcane87 wrote:Personally, I find it unlikely that the conclusion of the series will be planned so much in advance that they can build a Season or a Movie around it, I expect them to keep making big open-ended finale episodes like MMC and TK, so when some day Hasbro happens to not green-light any new Seasons, that will work as the ending.

The life of the series relies on toy sales after all, it will go on as long as they do, and stop as soon as they do.

Thing is, I'm concerned about how many times Meghan and the gang can keep making these endings where they wrap things up, but just enough to where they can be unwrapped at the start of the next season. MMC and Twilight's Kingdom both did this well, but if it keeps happening then it might get repetitive. And yeah, FiM is still tied to the toys, but all I hope for is that Hasbro will decide to end things far enough in advance that they'll be able to go into a season knowing that it is the last.
Image
Fizzbuzz
User avatar
Stare Masters
Joined: Mar 02, 2013
Location: TN
Gender: Male

Postby SpaceHowitzer (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:53 pm

So if Mike Vogel isn't working the show any more I wonder if that realeases him from show NDAs? Maybe he'd be available for cons or interviews.

I think he'd be an interesting guest for a con to get. Someone that can talk from the Hasbro side of running a show, maybe how that interfaces with the marketing, toys and branding side. Up to now it's been creative sub-contractor type folks, which I love but it's neat to see other sides.

Between The Hub becoming Discovery Family, movie announcements, and now internal moves at Hasbro, the super long pony hiatus just looks like simple scheduling difficulties.
SpaceHowitzer
User avatar
Meets MIL-STD-1472
Joined: Aug 01, 2013
Location: Florida
Gender: Male

Postby Octavia (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:58 pm

SpaceHowitzer wrote:So if Mike Vogel isn't working the show any more I wonder if that realeases him from show NDAs?


That's highly unlikely. Most NDAs are airtight in terms of still not being able to talk about anything after employment ends.
Octavia
User avatar
Octavia's Orchestra
Joined: Sep 17, 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Gender: Male

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:27 pm

Octavia wrote:
That's highly unlikely. Most NDAs are airtight in terms of still not being able to talk about anything after employment ends.

Especially so when you consider the fact that he's only leaving the show so that he can be one of the 2017 movie's executive producers. :-I
Image
Fizzbuzz
User avatar
Stare Masters
Joined: Mar 02, 2013
Location: TN
Gender: Male

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:55 pm

Sobana wrote: :whyme: "Can you do that? Can you explode spin-off twice?!"


All In The Family had about 3 or 4 spinoffs (Maude, Good Times, The Jeffersons and Archie Bunker's Place). :v:
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:09 pm

:maud: There's a spinoff idea right there.

Also, a "Three's Company" style spinoff with Spike, Twilight and Pinkie Pie. Funny misunderstandings galore. :whyme: :-/ :amazing:
:speakest: The fun has been doubled!
PonyHag714
User avatar
Trick or treat, smell my feet
Joined: Mar 18, 2013
Location: Oromareocto, Canterda
Gender: Male

Postby Marimo (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:33 pm

Marioland1 wrote:By having Twilight revoke her alicorn status and powers so that she can remain on the same level as her friends to prove that she values their friendship more than any amount of magical power in the world?

That actually sounds like an epic way to end it.

They already did the whole bit where she gives up her alicorn magic for the sake of her friends with Tirek. The only difference is that she didn't revert to a unicorn, indicating that an alicorn body is now the natural state her body is in and not just some powered up state. Even with the wings, I don't think ponies can fly without their pegasus magic or the pegasus part of alicorn magic, so it's not like a depowered alicorn Twilight would be any different than a depowered unicorn Twilight.
Marimo
User avatar
Ultimate Poster
Faithful Students
Joined: Dec 12, 2012
Gender: Male

Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:34 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:
All In The Family had about 3 or 4 spinoffs (Maude, Good Times, The Jeffersons and Archie Bunker's Place). :v:

"Good Times" was a spin-off of "Maude", so it's a spin-off of a spin-off :spike101: "The Jeffersons" had a spin-off called "Checking In", which only lasted 4 episodes.

There was also "Gloria" (all about Archie's daughter), and "704 Hauser", which is about a black family moving into the Bunkers' old house years after Archie sold it.
Last edited by Mr. Big on Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mr. Big
User avatar
Feeling witchy, aren't we?
Scootaloo's Pro Scooters
Joined: Mar 27, 2011
Location: TN
Gender: Male

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:36 pm

Huh, that's interesting. I think that Happy Days has 4 different spinoffs as well. :pinkieshrug:
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby RudeCyrus (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:52 pm

londonarbuckle wrote:If the show gets a proper finale, I'm starting to think there's no way they won't all be alicorns. Really, how else could they possibly end it? :pinkieshrug:


That would be terrible. It would ruin the uniqueness of the Mane 6 and send a bad message to the kids watching the show.
Image Image
RudeCyrus
User avatar
Everything is better with hats
Rainbow Racers
Joined: Feb 16, 2011
Location: Illinois
Gender: Male

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:54 pm

On the other hand, it'd unfuck the imbalance created by promoting Twilight above the others and show that teamwork actually does pay off for everyone involved. Unless that's the bad message you were talking about?
Image
Fizzbuzz
User avatar
Stare Masters
Joined: Mar 02, 2013
Location: TN
Gender: Male

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:01 pm

Speaking of finales, do you think the movie will be the finale?
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby RudeCyrus (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:12 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:On the other hand, it'd unfuck the imbalance created by promoting Twilight above the others and show that teamwork actually does pay off for everyone involved. Unless that's the bad message you were talking about?

The bad message I was thinking about was, "It doesn't matter what you like or what you want to do, in the end you'll be another pretty princess."
Image Image
RudeCyrus
User avatar
Everything is better with hats
Rainbow Racers
Joined: Feb 16, 2011
Location: Illinois
Gender: Male

Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:52 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:On the other hand, it'd unfuck the imbalance created by promoting Twilight above the others and show that teamwork actually does pay off for everyone involved. Unless that's the bad message you were talking about?


I don't think that Twilight being a Princess and promoting the power of unity and teamwork are mutually exclusive. I mean, the show has never really tried to make the point that the Mane 6 are all equal in terms of ability or potential; if anything, Twilight has always been pushed as something special, what with the whole being Celestia's protege thing.

For my money, having everyone hit with the Alicorn ray would be a massive bummer. Let's be real here; most of the Mane 6 would make terrible leaders. I'd love the series to end on a "business as usual" note, with peace having come to the land and every character living the way they always have. Show Twilight to be thinking about taking on a protege of her own, maybe. Advance things enough that we can see there's good times ahead, and that the established players are all in place for new adventures should a new villain hit the scene.
PaulloDEC
User avatar
Gah!
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
Location: Queensland, Australia
Gender: Male

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:55 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Speaking of finales, do you think the movie will be the finale?


Definitely. Finishing it with a bang.

PaulloDEC wrote:For my money, having everyone hit with the Alicorn ray would be a massive bummer. Let's be real here; most of the Mane 6 would make terrible leaders. I'd love the series to end on a "business as usual" note, with peace having come to the land and every character living the way they always have. Show Twilight to be thinking about taking on a protege of her own, maybe. Advance things enough that we can see there's good times ahead, and that the established players are all in place for new adventures should a new villain hit the scene.


I don't see how any other of the Mane 6 can be worse than Twilight as a leader. I mean, Twilight still isn't even prepared for it. She was a student, and still studying even. There's no way that the rest of the Mane 6 would be as bad as Twilight was.

On top of that, having her thinking of a protege would further the imbalance that this is "The Twilight Sparkle Show", when it isn't.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:11 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
Definitely. Finishing it with a bang.



I don't see how any other of the Mane 6 can be worse than Twilight as a leader. I mean, Twilight still isn't even prepared for it. She was a student, and still studying even. There's no way that the rest of the Mane 6 would be as bad as Twilight was.


Twilight wasn't prepared to be a Princess, no; leaders often aren't when duty comes knocking.

And you don't see Fluttershy being a worse leader than Twilight? You don't see Pinkie Pie being a worse leader than Twilight?

Additionally, I don't really see how being Princess'd would be considered a good thing by most of them either. Hey Applejack, remember that family business you spend all your time working to support? Now you have to split your time between that and being a Princess, something you've never had shown any interest in being. Great huh? Oh and Fluttershy, remember how you really like spending time alone with woodland creatures? Well now you get to do the opposite of that!

Twilight might not have been immediately sure about her new role, but she's been built up as a leader to us, the audience from the very beginning.

ShieldedDiamond wrote:On top of that, having her thinking of a protege would further the imbalance that this is "The Twilight Sparkle Show", when it isn't.


I don't see it that way. To me, it'd be a nice full-circle moment showing how far we've come from the beginning of the show when Twilight was the protege.
PaulloDEC
User avatar
Gah!
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
Location: Queensland, Australia
Gender: Male

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:52 pm

PaulloDEC wrote:And you don't see Fluttershy being a worse leader than Twilight? You don't see Pinkie Pie being a worse leader than Twilight?


And yet the Mane 6 also has Rarity and Applejack, both of which are more qualified than Twilight. They both run businesses, Rarity has a complete understanding of proper social behaviors, and Applejack's knowledge of farming would work on a grand scale. Yeah, Pinkie Pie may not be qualified, but you can't say "most of the Mane 6" when you bring up two worse than Twilight, and I have two counterpoints that would be better than Twilight. Just leaving Rainbow, which could be argued either way.

I don't see it that way. To me, it'd be a nice full-circle moment showing how far we've come from the beginning of the show when Twilight was the protege.


Except for the fact that each of the Mane 6 was a protege since S2, and Princess Celestia has pretty much flat out ignored them since.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:29 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
And yet the Mane 6 also has Rarity and Applejack, both of which are more qualified than Twilight. They both run businesses, Rarity has a complete understanding of proper social behaviors, and Applejack's knowledge of farming would work on a grand scale. Yeah, Pinkie Pie may not be qualified, but you can't say "most of the Mane 6" when you bring up two worse than Twilight, and I have two counterpoints that would be better than Twilight. Just leaving Rainbow, which could be argued either way.


What makes you feel that Twilight would be a poor leader? Wasn't the whole point of Winter Wrap-Up (a season one episode, I might add) that Twilight was basically born for management? As for "most", I stand by that. Dash, Fluttershy and Pinkie would all be wildly inappropriate choices for Princess IMO.

In any case, I'd say Celestia probably knows best in regards to who is and isn't Princess material. I'd like to think that she'd avoid uprooting anyone with an established career, i.e. Applejack or Rarity.

ShieldedDiamond wrote:Except for the fact that each of the Mane 6 was a protege since S2, and Princess Celestia has pretty much flat out ignored them since.


C'mon now. You know what I mean when I call Twilight Celestia's protege, and it isn't the same thing as the very loose relationship she has with the rest of the Mane 6.
PaulloDEC
User avatar
Gah!
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
Location: Queensland, Australia
Gender: Male

Postby Perrydotto (?) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:45 am

To add to that, Twilight was groomed for the Princess acension since she was a little filly. The other mane 6 are proteges as well, sure, but none of them were taught and groomed by the princess herself since childhood.
Image /// Image /// Image
Perrydotto
User avatar
Agents of Chaos
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Location: The final frontier
Gender: Female

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:51 am

PaulloDEC wrote:
What makes you feel that Twilight would be a poor leader? Wasn't the whole point of Winter Wrap-Up (a season one episode, I might add) that Twilight was basically born for management? As for "most", I stand by that. Dash, Fluttershy and Pinkie would all be wildly inappropriate choices for Princess IMO.


Management is not the same thing as leadership. On top of that, Rainbow Dash has been shown coaching and organizing, so if you were to say management does equal leadership, then that would mean Rainbow Dash would also be qualified.

In any case, I'd say Celestia probably knows best in regards to who is and isn't Princess material. I'd like to think that she'd avoid uprooting anyone with an established career, i.e. Applejack or Rarity.


Except for the fact that she dragged them all into it.

C'mon now. You know what I mean when I call Twilight Celestia's protege, and it isn't the same thing as the very loose relationship she has with the rest of the Mane 6.


No, I don't. Because still, that would be enforcing that idea of inequality amongst them, so no, Twilight shouldn't have a protege. And still, it wasn't really a loose relationship since Celestia, as I said, dragged them all into it as of Season 2.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby doodlesplat (?) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:02 am

I do think each of the mane six, and Spike, should continue to grow and develop into something greater. At the same time, 'Princess' has a somewhat-defined meaning within Equestria and it's not clear that that path is appropriate for all of them. Princess within Equestria isn't the natural progression of all ponies so long as they grow and learn enough. It's not some title to award to all great citizens. Yes, it will provide structural balance from an overall narrative standpoint, but would that feel organic, what the characters-as-we-know-them would really want? They are an ensemble of friends, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. Their most valuable strength—and the show's core spirit—is working as a team supporting each other. None of the mane six could be easily swapped around like some superhero cast, where any member could equally accomplish the task, just in a different flavor of lightshow. Being a part of a greater whole, without sacrificing individuality, is such a strong feature of this pony cast. Applying the princess stamp to all of them would be a step in the other direction.

As examples of where they might be headed if not princesshood, Rarity could continue her conquest of Equestrian fashion and society and become a de facto leader there, but that kind of leadership isn't the task force adventure-kind that Twilight usually does. Similarly, Rainbow Dash is already developing her leadership whenever she coaches athletic teams, weather teams, or little filly teams. Fluttershy is already quite indispensable to Equestria as an interspecies diplomat, bogging her down with official bureaucracy doesn't feel fitting; most of her growth would probably be internal. Pinkie Pie is a wild card..she's already key to the functioning of society, making her a capital-P princess would probably diminish her ability to spread laughter and joy. :-P
Applejack has leadership skills, but her character progression makes it less obvious where she's heading. There are many possibilities, but I haven't really noticed the show hinting that she's on any grand path other than 'make farm and family run smoothly'. Spike—I don't think anyone is expecting him to become a princess, but regardless, he could use more character development of any kind.

I have no doubt that making them all princesses is always in the back of some creative exec's mind because it's such an easy ending to jump to. It brings fantastic closure. And marketing and toy division would love it. However, any deeper look at the show's origins, and even as it currently is, would indicate that it'd be artistically outrageous. Pull-off-able, yes, which means it could happen, ie. they could force in yet another change in the definition of what a princess or alicorn means within the universe, but a positive change for the show's narrative integrity? I have my doubts.
doodlesplat
User avatar
Joined: Jan 23, 2013

Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:32 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:Management is not the same thing as leadership. On top of that, Rainbow Dash has been shown coaching and organizing, so if you were to say management does equal leadership, then that would mean Rainbow Dash would also be qualified.


Twilight's management of the Winter Wrap-Up was more like town planning. Rainbow Dash is more like a football coach. I know which one I'd say was more qualified for a high-ranking political career.

ShieldedDiamond wrote:Except for the fact that she dragged them all into it.


Well sure, but saving the world every once in a while is a little different to a full-time political career.

ShieldedDiamond wrote:No, I don't. Because still, that would be enforcing that idea of inequality amongst them, so no, Twilight shouldn't have a protege. And still, it wasn't really a loose relationship since Celestia, as I said, dragged them all into it as of Season 2.


Okay, well let me clarify then. With Twilight, Celestia took her on at a young age as her "own personal protege". With the rest of the Mane 6, she didn't do that.

As for this inequality stuff, I'm starting to suspect we might be coming at this from different angles philosophically. I've never thought of FiM as being a show that promotes perfect 1:1 equality between characters, so imbalance there isn't an issue for me. As in real life, being better or smarter or more important shouldn't matter among friends.

doodlesplat wrote:I do think each of the mane six, and Spike, should continue to grow and develop into something greater. At the same time, 'Princess' has a somewhat-defined meaning within Equestria and it's not clear that that path is appropriate for all of them. Princess within Equestria isn't the natural progression of all ponies so long as they grow and learn enough. It's not some title to award to all great citizens. Yes, it will provide structural balance from an overall narrative standpoint, but would that feel organic, what the characters-as-we-know-them would really want? They are an ensemble of friends, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. Their most valuable strength—and the show's core spirit—is working as a team supporting each other. None of the mane six could be easily swapped around like some superhero cast, where any member could equally accomplish the task, just in a different flavor of lightshow. Being a part of a greater whole, without sacrificing individuality, is such a strong feature of this pony cast. Applying the princess stamp to all of them would be a step in the other direction.

As examples of where they might be headed if not princesshood, Rarity could continue her conquest of Equestrian fashion and society and become a de facto leader there, but that kind of leadership isn't the task force adventure-kind that Twilight usually does. Similarly, Rainbow Dash is already developing her leadership whenever she coaches athletic teams, weather teams, or little filly teams. Fluttershy is already quite indispensable to Equestria as an interspecies diplomat, bogging her down with official bureaucracy doesn't feel fitting; most of her growth would probably be internal. Pinkie Pie is a wild card..she's already key to the functioning of society, making her a capital-P princess would probably diminish her ability to spread laughter and joy. :-P
Applejack has leadership skills, but her character progression makes it less obvious where she's heading. There are many possibilities, but I haven't really noticed the show hinting that she's on any grand path other than 'make farm and family run smoothly'. Spike—I don't think anyone is expecting him to become a princess, but regardless, he could use more character development of any kind.

I have no doubt that making them all princesses is always in the back of some creative exec's mind because it's such an easy ending to jump to. It brings fantastic closure. And marketing and toy division would love it. However, any deeper look at the show's origins, and even as it currently is, would indicate that it'd be artistically outrageous. Pull-off-able, yes, which means it could happen, ie. they could force in yet another change in the definition of what a princess or alicorn means within the universe, but a positive change for the show's narrative integrity? I have my doubts.


Fantastic post. The only thing I'd add to that is that Applejack's mission (as I see it) has always been 100% family-oriented. Any scenario in which Applejack doesn't continue running the farm with her family would be very difficult to rationalise as far as I'm concerned.
PaulloDEC
User avatar
Gah!
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
Location: Queensland, Australia
Gender: Male

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:39 am

PaulloDEC wrote:Well sure, but saving the world every once in a while is a little different to a full-time political career.


I was also referring to her making them write to her.

As for this inequality stuff, I'm starting to suspect we might be coming at this from different angles philosophically. I've never thought of FiM as being a show that promotes perfect 1:1 equality between characters, so imbalance there isn't an issue for me. As in real life, being better or smarter or more important shouldn't matter among friends.


Yes, in real life being smarter shouldn't matter, but all of a sudden a friend becoming royalty for fixing a mistake she caused, when everyone else does their share of the work, something isn't quite right.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby Bumble-B (?) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:04 am

While AJ's family oriented aspect has technically always been '100%' there, i believe Season 1 was tamer about it compared to S2 and onwards when it felt like much more prevalent. Not only was there less family in S1 but i felt that S1 was more about her rivalries with some friends and AJ being a leader when it came to adventures.

Granted, i will admit that i prefer S1 AJ so i naturally would like to see more episodes focusing more on her friendships than family which i feel because of the lack of family squabbling means that there's less interesting conflicts or growth with her family.
Bumble-B
User avatar
Buzz Buzz...
Applejack Aces
Joined: Jul 14, 2012
Gender: Male

Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:10 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:Yes, in real life being smarter shouldn't matter, but all of a sudden a friend becoming royalty for fixing a mistake she caused, when everyone else does their share of the work, something isn't quite right.


This is interesting, as I've never thought of Twilight's promotion as being a reward for fixing the spell in MMC; in fact, I've never thought of that process as any kind of reward at all. The spell in MMC was a test, and probably the culmination of a plan set in motion way back when Celestia first saw Twilight's potential during the Sonic Rainboom/Cutie Mark incident.

I think the show has been pretty clear in demonstrating that being a Princess isn't about fame, money and a pretty crown so much as it is putting your life on the line for your subjects. I'm not sure any of the Mane 6 would choose to have that role, or think of it as a gift rather than a responsibility and, to some extent, a heavy burden.

AppleCobbler44 wrote:While AJ's family oriented aspect has technically always been '100%' there, i believe Season 1 was tamer about it compared to S2 and onwards when it felt like much more prevalent. Not only was there less family in S1 but i felt that S1 was more about her rivalries with some friends and AJ being a leader when it came to adventures.

Granted, i will admit that i prefer S1 AJ so i naturally would like to see more episodes focusing more on her friendships than family which i feel because of the lack of family squabbling means that there's less interesting conflicts or growth with her family.


Oh sure, I just meant in terms of her broader life goals rather than just day-to-day activities. In the sense of where she wants to go in life, I think AJ is probably pretty content staying where she is now.
PaulloDEC
User avatar
Gah!
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
Location: Queensland, Australia
Gender: Male

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:14 am

PaulloDEC wrote:
This is interesting, as I've never thought of Twilight's promotion as being a reward for fixing the spell in MMC; in fact, I've never thought of that process as any kind of reward at all. The spell in MMC was a test, and probably the culmination of a plan set in motion way back when Celestia first saw Twilight's potential during the Sonic Rainboom/Cutie Mark incident.


But the spell was something Twilight came across, and regardless of everything that happened, she still screwed everything up in the first place. The way I see it, the spell was the final thing that Celestia saw as qualifying her for a Princess, but I disagree with that because all she did was fix a mistake she screwed up.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:36 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
But the spell was something Twilight came across, and regardless of everything that happened, she still screwed everything up in the first place. The way I see it, the spell was the final thing that Celestia saw as qualifying her for a Princess, but I disagree with that because all she did was fix a mistake she screwed up.


But wasn't the spell a deliberate trap in the first place? All it took for it to be triggered was for Twilight to read the thing, so I always assumed that the initial mistake was part of Celestia's ongoing plan to test Twilight in a variety of nasty and stressful ways. Now that I think about it, I guess that one is kinda open to interpretation.

Failing that, I'm not sure I follow your line of thinking. What would you have had Celestia do? Should she have withheld Twilight's promotion for making a mistake? Punish her? Or recognise that her ability to correct her mistakes, as well as her ability to complete a spell written by possibly the most accomplished magic-user in the history of the realm qualifies her for greater things?
PaulloDEC
User avatar
Gah!
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
Location: Queensland, Australia
Gender: Male

Previous Next

Return to Ponies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 5 guests