Offseason General Show Chat

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Re: Offseason General Show Chat

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:58 pm

DerFurShur wrote:I mean yeah it then ends with Pinkie and Rarity makingbthe u r way back but that's just a simple joke, the story of the episode was told and completed.


That. That "simple joke." It wasn't, it was a big point completely passed off as a "joke". How did they get back? Oh it doesn't matter, it's a "joke". I can't stand those.

Oh, and Rainbow Dash's "loyalty" causing her to forget abotu Rarity and Pinkie. I forgot about that. Really, it was the last 5 minutes that I felt ruined the entire episode for me, and why I feel it deserves to be on one of the last couple of slots, it breaks characters and passes off something that genuinely should have had closure as a "joke".
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Postby Perrydotto (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:54 am

I'm not a fan of The Last Roundup either. It doesn't work as an Applejack story to me, since the whole "lying for the sake of others" fell flat (and was done much better later in Leap Of Faith), the focus was way too much on goofy Spongebob-esque jokes and the characterizations just weren't particularly good. It's one of my least favorite episodes of pony because in my opinion, it just falls flat on a lot of qualities the show usually has.
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Postby Strangest Letter (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:15 am

Eh, I think trying to hide the truth because you felt like you let someone down is a much more relatable premise than the mess that happened in Leap of Faith.
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Postby Perrydotto (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:20 am

Applejack lied in Leap of Faith to keep Granny and her family happy. I find that much more relatable than how things escalated in Last Roundup. Lying because you let someone down is relatable too, yes, but it really got ridiculous in my opinion in that episode. Especially with the other mane 6 just acting pretty ridiculous around Applejack, down to the whole bit with using Pinkie Pie as a weapon. The whole episode just felt too weird, goofy and insincere to me.
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Postby Seven Seas (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:45 am

Oh boy, Last Roundup controversy! :-I

The Last Roundup was one of my favorite episodes back when it aired, but for some reason it just hasn't held up for me. The more I hear the gags, the more they fall flat, and I can't stop seeing the cracks where the puzzle pieces don't quite fit together. All the characters feel a bit off at certain points of the episode-- Applejack most of all, of course.

The overall premise makes sense to me, though. I didn't see it as "lying for the sake of others," but rather feeling so ashamed and afraid to let people down that you can't bear to face them. I think AJ's motivations would have been better conveyed if they'd cut out Act II entirely and discovered her only in the last few minutes, but whatever. Regardless of how we got there, I still have a huge soft spot for Applejack's confession scene, which laid bare a lot of her insecurities and gave her more depth than almost any other scene in the show.
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Postby Strangest Letter (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:49 am

Perrydotto wrote:Applejack lied in Leap of Faith to keep Granny and her family happy. I find that much more relatable than how things escalated in Last Roundup. Lying because you let someone down is relatable too, yes, but it really got ridiculous in my opinion in that episode. Especially with the other mane 6 just acting pretty ridiculous around Applejack, down to the whole bit with using Pinkie Pie as a weapon. The whole episode just felt too weird, goofy and insincere to me.


"Ridiculous" is how I feel about all placebo medicine stories admittedly. I saw so many of those as a small child and even then I would just internally scream "Just tell them the medicine doesn't do anything, they will be happy to know they were able to accomplish great things of their own ability and you not have to see lying con artists getting paid! :rant:"

I don't really see The Last Roundup as any more goofy than pony has always been.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:53 am

I had no idea people disliked it, I thought it was really good. The cherry factory, orchard and chase scenes alone are pure character gold :allears:

And as for leaving Pinkie and Rarity behind... Well, the joke is that you forget about them as you're watching the resolution, then it turns out the characters forgot too. It's a bit of a cliché but it works, it doesn't matter if it's not true to their characterization :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:54 am

Seven Seas wrote:I think AJ's motivations would have been better conveyed if they'd cut out Act II entirely and discovered her only in the last few minutes

BOOM! You hit the nail on the head. Yeah, if they did that, this would've been better.

Granted, writing was never the show's strong suit :-I
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Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:10 am

So animation isn't the shows strong suit and writing isn't either so what exactly does the show do right :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Frosthawk (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:22 am

Nothing. We really were all just watching this show ironically all along!
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:30 am

DerFurShur wrote:So animation isn't the shows strong suit and writing isn't either so what exactly does the show do right :pinkieshrug:

Designs and poses are good (that doesn't mean the animation's good), and there are individual moments I like. I like the characters and their voices. Plus the few episodes I do actually consider good. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:42 am

:sweetielarm: Exciting News!

For anyone that might not venture into the comics thread, they have just shown up on the humble bundle. For $15 you can get nearly every comic from the last two years.

Issue 1-25 of the main series

All 10 issues of the Micro Series

Issue 1-10 of the Friends forever series.

35 comics for a minimum of $15. These are digital versions of the comic, in convenient, DRM free .pdf format.

https://www.humblebundle.com/books
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Postby Sobana (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:51 am

AppleCobbler44 wrote:If we must have action packed Two parter finales, then at least they should have better villains. Having a season-arc villain pop up from time to time would establish some looming threat or goal worth achieving. Sombra, Tirek, and Chrysalis all unfortunately fall victim to showing up once and only once during the two parters. There's just not enough time to develop their characters and it just isn't really satisfying if there was no build up prior to the two parters.

Actually that set up worked out well for Chrysalis who really didn't show up until the second part. The whole point was that she was suppose to be a secret until the big reveal at the end.

The problem with Sombra and Tirek is that there was suppose to be previous knowledge of them. If they dropped a few hints earlier in the season it would have been more helpful.

The only problem I have with a season long over arching villain is why would they wait so long to try to stop him? They usually try to resolve those kinds of situations as soon as they pop up like any rational thinking group of people would. Unless the villain is some kind of clumsy buffoon that no one can take seriously until he discovers some power that makes him a real threat. But then it would make me wonder why he would actively seek out being a bad guy in the first place without a motive. Which is kinda out of the setting of the show. The show really doesn't do evil for evil's shake.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:20 am

Highbrow Dash wrote:And as for leaving Pinkie and Rarity behind... Well, the joke is that you forget about them as you're watching the resolution, then it turns out the characters forgot too. It's a bit of a cliché but it works, it doesn't matter if it's not true to their characterization :pinkieshrug:


Except it doesn't work if you keep asking "When is Rainbow Dash going to go get them?" after that one part, as I was doing. Then leaving the question of "How exactly did they get back, and I find it hard to believe that they literally left them there." I find it to be one of those things that ruins the punchline with questions. All they had to do was put them in the train shot, and that would have been slightly better, but I still don't like how Applejack was handled in the episode.

Frosthawk wrote:Nothing. We really were all just watching this show ironically all along!


What a twist. :-I
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:43 am

The big problem with the Rarity and Pinkie joke at the end was that they were no farther from the town than Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy just ran while pulling a wagon with three ponies. The reason Rainbow Dash didn't go back for them, is that they were in no danger.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:48 am

The Doctor wrote:The big problem with the Rarity and Pinkie joke at the end was that they were no farther from the town than Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy just ran while pulling a wagon with three ponies. The reason Rainbow Dash didn't go back for them, is that they were in no danger.


Not being in immediate danger is no excuse to then just ignore and forget friends. Which is why I said it would have been fine if they were just in the last shot on the train, but they weren't. Rainbow Dash and the rest literally abandoned and forgot them.


Another issue with the episode was Pinkie Pie. The problem with Amy Keating Rogers is she often writes Pinkie Pie as literally crazy, or sometimes just annoying. As evident how Rainbow used Pinkie as a "weapon" against Applejack to annoy her. Some episodes she really writes her great, like in Pinkie Pride, but others, it feels she writes Pinkie as just "the annoying one."
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Postby Bumble-B (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:01 am

Sobana wrote:Actually that set up worked out well for Chrysalis who really didn't show up until the second part. The whole point was that she was suppose to be a secret until the big reveal at the end.

The problem with Sombra and Tirek is that there was suppose to be previous knowledge of them. If they dropped a few hints earlier in the season it would have been more helpful.

The only problem I have with a season long over arching villain is why would they wait so long to try to stop him? They usually try to resolve those kinds of situations as soon as they pop up like any rational thinking group of people would.


Because the villains are hiding? Maybe they were too big of a threat the first time that the Mane Six have to spend an entire season getting ready for the final round? Perhaps the Mane Six keep escaping the villain's grasp?

But yeah, it's mostly villains fleeing and fading into the shadows being the reason why the heroes just can't put an end to their foes. For MLP, I think having them unable to fully defeat the villain in the initial two parter would better fit the show's format since the Mane Six would then be able to use their friendship lessons acquired during the season to help them finally stop the villain in the finale.

Unless the villain is some kind of clumsy buffoon that no one can take seriously until he discovers some power that makes him a real threat. But then it would make me wonder why he would actively seek out being a bad guy in the first place without a motive. Which is kinda out of the setting of the show. The show really doesn't do evil for evil's sake.


Well, I'd say Sombra did it for evil's sake. He wasn't really given a motive or character at all outside of "Enslave ALL Crystal Ponies". But I do think you can have a clumsy baffoon be a threat and have a motive. Mojo Jojo was a threat, coming close to defeating the girls a couple times and yeah, initially he was just some villain and doing it for evil's sake but eventually during the series' run you find out that his turn to villainy stemmed from his creator, the Professor, creating the Powerpuff Girls and thus Mojo felt ignored and abandoned in favor of the girls. Lord Hater is another incompetent cartoony villain who comes somewhat close to destroying/capturing Wander and Sylvia yet still has motives.



I'd just like to see more villains with motivations in the two parters :pinkieshrug:

PS I guess you could argue that Chrysalis isn't quote unquote 'evil' because she needs to feed her Changelings as it may be their only food source. But then again, she did have a villain song and she did try to take over Canterlot when maybe she could have seized some remote town just like in the comics.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:13 am

Chrysalis is the only Villain that really makes sense. Tirek and Sombra were just generic villains A and B. Chrysalis had a lot going for her. Not the least of which is adopting the old trope of "Love conquers all" and her being a villain who can harness and use that power against the heroes. I thought it was quite a creative take on the whole thing.

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
Not being in immediate danger is no excuse to then just ignore and forget friends. Which is why I said it would have been fine if they were just in the last shot on the train, but they weren't. Rainbow Dash and the rest literally abandoned and forgot them.


I see it as the writer wanted that visual gag at the end, even if it made no sense at all.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:17 am

The Doctor wrote:
I see it as the writer wanted that visual gag at the end, even if it made no sense at all.


But then that goes back to what I said, if a visual gag raises too many questions, it shouldn't be there as it fails to be a gag. My Little Pony isn't Inception, there shouldn't be endings that raise more questions than answered in this case.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:20 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
But then that goes back to what I said, if a visual gag raises too many questions, it shouldn't be there as it fails to be a gag. My Little Pony isn't Inception, there shouldn't be endings that raise more questions than answered in this case.


Oh I agree. I'm just saying I don't think it counts as a mark against Rainbow Dash since it was done for a poorly executed gag.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:27 am

Oh, I'm sorry, I see what you mean. Yes, you're definitely right then, sorry.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:22 am

I thought Last Roundup was OK, it had some really funny moments and gave us our first taste of PINKIE RAGE but I have to agree when it comes to the tone. It just felt off somehow...
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:21 pm

I'll agree that it was never one of my favorites, at least to the extent that I could never quite get on board the same hype train everyone else was riding. I thought it was enjoyable and funny, and it had a nice epic scope covering a lot of territory, but in the end it didn't feel like it accomplished much for all that fanfare. I wanted there to be a deeper insight into Applejack's character or backstory or something as a result of all that globetrotting, but instead all we got was "ashamed of coming in 2nd".
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Postby londonarbuckle (?) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:40 pm

Yeah, I can definitely see why that last gag would bother someone in a show that's supposed to be all about how, you know, friendship is magic. Especially since it's not a particularly good gag anyway, not good enough to remove two characters from the climactic reunion with their beloved friend anyway!
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Postby Sobana (?) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:56 am

The Doctor wrote:Chrysalis is the only Villain that really makes sense. Tirek and Sombra were just generic villains A and B. Chrysalis had a lot going for her. Not the least of which is adopting the old trope of "Love conquers all" and her being a villain who can harness and use that power against the heroes. I thought it was quite a creative take on the whole thing.

Chrysalis is really the only thing that makes sense. If you think about it her plans were more far reaching then people realize. Canterlot was just a means to an end. If she continued to pretend to be Cadance she would have eventually taken over the Crystal Empire and gotten the Crystal Heart. Source of all love in Equestria. She would of gotten an endless supply of food for her subjects. Very noble goals even in the manner of which she tried to acquire it.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:07 am

Sobana wrote:Chrysalis is really the only thing that makes sense. If you think about it her plans were more far reaching then people realize. Canterlot was just a means to an end. If she continued to pretend to be Cadance she would have eventually taken over the Crystal Empire and gotten the Crystal Heart. Source of all love in Equestria. She would of gotten an endless supply of food for her subjects. Very noble goals even in the manner of which she tried to acquire it.


Part of the reason I think it would have been really neat had Canterlot Wedding and Crystal Empire been aired in reverse order. Use Crystal Empire to introduce these two character, get us to like them. Then we will actually care that they are getting married. Then have the Wedding episode in the empire, rather than Canterlot. Chrysalis targeting a fledgeling empire that runs on love would have been perfect.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:14 am

The Doctor wrote:
Part of the reason I think it would have been really neat had Canterlot Wedding and Crystal Empire been aired in reverse order. Use Crystal Empire to introduce these two character, get us to like them. Then we will actually care that they are getting married. Then have the Wedding episode in the empire, rather than Canterlot. Chrysalis targeting a fledgeling empire that runs on love would have been perfect.


That does sound like a better idea, leave the seasons in a partial cliffhanger of a wedding, I would have preferred that.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:39 am

That's what makes Chrysalis' motives interesting. It's easy to say "she's feeding off love, evil" but if that's what the Changelings feed on, it can be said she's only doing what she must do to take care of her subjects. She said herself that it was up to her to find food, i.e. love for them. The debate itself -- is she right or wrong -- makes her stand out among the other villains.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:26 pm

Interesting question.

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2014/11/discussion-what-do-you-think-show-would.html

I think Spike played an important role in past seasons as someone who kept Twilight on track when she started going off, like in Lesson Zero when he'd pop up during the episode to give Twi a reality check when she started rambling--until she lost it altogether. Also in MMC when he gave Twilight encouragement. We don't see this as much with Twi 2.0, and I'm sure the show would be fine if he'd never been part of it, but I'm glad he is. I like the little guy. :here:

Also, "An outhouse?" is best one liner bomb in the show. :spike101:
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Postby Strangest Letter (?) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:32 pm

Anything with less dragons will always be an inferior product. :rainbert:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:51 pm

Spike has always been a nice character to me, it's really interesting to see how much his role has changed from S1 and how he has grown emotionally. He also has had some really great moments in the show,
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:18 pm

Had Spike never existed then I think a lot of stuff with Twilight, especially in S1, would have been rather boring. She largely would've been without anyone to talk to unless one of the other five just so happened to be in the library at the time, a situation that would likely start to feel forced pretty quickly. And even if Twilight had an attentive little brother or sister much like Applejack and Rarity have their sisters, we'd still be deprived of all the unique stories and gags that we can get from having one character be a dragon and not a pony.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:27 pm

Yeah, he definitely was a major instrument in Twilight's character in Season One...and the scroll joke from Griffin The Brush Off would be lost and we wouldn't want that.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:52 pm

I wouldn't say he is as important in the show as the Mane 6 (he was more important in S1 than in later seasons where he wasn't needed as much), that being said, he's the shows most important side character, more so than the CMC I'd say.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:01 am

Your talk of importance made me realize something. I guess he's actually not that important to Twilight as far as letter-sending goes, now that she's no longer writing letters to Celestia. Assisting her has always been one of Spike's favorite things, so with that gone and with the library destroyed as well, there really might not be too much left that she needs him to do for her. SAYS already explored this a little bit, briefly showing us how little Spike had to do when he wasn't doing chores for Twilight, but I wonder if S5 will go further into this.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:39 am

One thing I noticed in Three's A Crowd was that Twilight had to wait for the regular Ponyville mail to find out whether Cadance was coming to visit. Granted, it's only Celestia who gets to send letters via Spike; but still it was a jarring little reminder of how circumscribed that role is.
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Postby Strangest Letter (?) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:40 am

Fizzbuzz wrote: Assisting her has always been one of Spike's favorite things, so with that gone and with the library destroyed as well, there really might not be too much left that she needs him to do for her.


Rainbow Rock showed that Twilight was ordering a massive stock of books (like I said she would :wingsright:) I think they'll be more than enough for Spike to do.
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Postby Sobana (?) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:58 am

How would Spike's character grow without him needing to do chores? Well, honestly, he is the off set little boy character of the group. He hates girly mushy stuff and loves comics. He is pretty much the little brother aspect of the group. Without his perspective the rest of the group doesn't seem as complete or relatable.

What would the show be like without him? Pretty much the same only slightly tweaked. Rainbow Dash would probably be the one who likes comics as well as another character filling out his other roles. Subtracting a character would be about the same as asking if they added a seventh mane character, maybe Fizzy, and how would that effect things.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:33 am

I personally think that Spike will still play a prominent part in S5...maybe something new with him in the Crystal Empire.
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:53 am

I definitely don't see Spike falling out. The new library tree is massive, and surely someone has to clean that thing, right?
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