Offseason General Show Chat

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Re: Offseason General Show Chat

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:30 am

SoundMonkey44 wrote:

It needed them, the same reason Transformers needs bigger badder bots, to sell toys. :v:

Again, not saying it's perfect, but I think the show staff have handled it very well. In terms of comparing pony to another show its like s1&2 are Dragon Ball & 3-5 are DBZ. Neither better or worse then the other, just different tones. All Seaons have had their pros & cons, I loved season 4 cause it gave us some great AJ & Rarity eps and fun new characters like Maud, Coco, Cheese Sandwhich etc. But I understand why some prefere S1-2 more.


I see what you're sayian. :thatsright:
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:42 am

But Dragonball is a much better show than Dragonball Z
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:34 am

The Outlander wrote:But Dragonball is a much better show than Dragonball Z


This is true but MLP has still remained awesome. :-P
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:50 am

So does this mean we can expect a future arc where Twilight gets turned into a filly? :ponder:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:53 am

Highbrow Dash wrote:So does this mean we can expect a future arc where Twilight gets turned into a filly? :ponder:


Seasons 6-8 perhaps?

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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:38 am

Highbrow Dash wrote:So does this mean we can expect a future arc where Twilight gets turned into a filly? :ponder:


Now I'm thinking of the Courage episode where Muriel gets turned into a little girl.

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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:17 pm

Not before we get the pony Frieza saga.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:22 pm

Stopped watching DB before that. :v:
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Postby Discord (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:33 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
But why did a show about Friendship need the whole Princess thing? It's things like this that I feel are deviating from what S1 was, going from friendship lessons and development, to I don't know where things have gone now.


Because Twilight has already learned how to be a pretty darn good friend, it'd get repetitive and weird if she stayed in perpetual social awkwardness S1 state, and the show has instead chosen to make slow and steady progress and growth with its characters that was vaguely intended from the beginning? :pinkieshrug:

Twilight becoming a princess is woven somewhat from the beginning of the show; she's Princess Celestia's prized pupil, and all the lessons she learns logically culminate into the role of princess (magical strength, sociability, leadership, ability to delegate, calmness in the face of bad things). Twilight eventually embraces it and takes it as a chance to have the power to do what she really wants to do; show others the magic of friendship. And thus the show is able to keep on teaching friendship and life lessons without making it seem like Twilight is never maturing.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:37 pm

Discord wrote:
Because Twilight has already learned how to be a pretty darn good friend, it'd get repetitive and weird if she stayed in perpetual social awkwardness S1 state, and the show is progressing in a fairly natural way that was vaguely intended from the beginning? :pinkieshrug:

To be fair, I thought the ascension of Twilight was rather rushed and not too well-explained as of MMC, but much of S4 and especially Twilight's Kingdom made me feel good about it. Had the show ended at MMC then I definitely would've been disappointed in that regard, but now I'm looking forward to what she'll do in S5.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:40 pm

Yeah, they really put their heart and soul into developing her character even further. Now let's see what they do for her and the rest of the main characters now. :allears:
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Postby Passport Clean (?) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:54 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Stopped watching DB before that. :v:


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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:29 am

I'm not sure, but let's recap what happened in the last fifty episodes just to be certain.


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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:10 am

Discord wrote:
Because Twilight has already learned how to be a pretty darn good friend, it'd get repetitive and weird if she stayed in perpetual social awkwardness S1 state, and the show has instead chosen to make slow and steady progress and growth with its characters that was vaguely intended from the beginning? :pinkieshrug:

Twilight becoming a princess is woven somewhat from the beginning of the show; she's Princess Celestia's prized pupil, and all the lessons she learns logically culminate into the role of princess (magical strength, sociability, leadership, ability to delegate, calmness in the face of bad things). Twilight eventually embraces it and takes it as a chance to have the power to do what she really wants to do; show others the magic of friendship. And thus the show is able to keep on teaching friendship and life lessons without making it seem like Twilight is never maturing.


But this isn't The Twilight Show. There is still a lot of stuff they never focused on, and rushed into Twilight being a princess. Because of that, I don't really see much character development, all I see is an addition of wings. Jean in Attack on Titan, I see the development there. Development is better to show in a show with an order, I feel like there needs to be a patteren. Without S1 and most of that awkward state (which was taken out by the start of S2), I feel you can mix around every episode of S2 and S3 and no difference would be made.

Also, with the show making the other ponies write Friendship Letters, they were only just tapping into that. Abandoning it by S3 got lazy, and now it's barely present in S4. I feel the Friendship in Friendship is Magic has been almost completely removed.

I understand not wanting to just focus on friendship. But if the word is a big part of your tagline, what is the point of dropping it?
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Postby QuillNSofa (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:48 am

Problem is the FiM is so tightly knit with this generation, dropping it or changing it would make some people wonder if it would be a new generation or if the show is going change so radically.

So I wouldn't drop it even if shows become about morals other then ones linked to friendship.
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Postby Discord (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:13 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
But this isn't The Twilight Show. There is still a lot of stuff they never focused on, and rushed into Twilight being a princess. Because of that, I don't really see much character development, all I see is an addition of wings. Jean in Attack on Titan, I see the development there. Development is better to show in a show with an order, I feel like there needs to be a patteren. Without S1 and most of that awkward state (which was taken out by the start of S2), I feel you can mix around every episode of S2 and S3 and no difference would be made.

Also, with the show making the other ponies write Friendship Letters, they were only just tapping into that. Abandoning it by S3 got lazy, and now it's barely present in S4. I feel the Friendship in Friendship is Magic has been almost completely removed.

I understand not wanting to just focus on friendship. But if the word is a big part of your tagline, what is the point of dropping it?


Twilight is still the main character, but she doesn't get particularly more focus than the rest over the course of a season (except, funnily enough, probably S1). Her journey just has her going to bigger places.

Perhaps you could mix up S2/S3, but considering how short S3 is, I don't see it as a huge issue. And the two seasons DO try to do different things with Twilight's development that are distinct.

Twilight's development in S2 getting over her flaw to exaggerate, catastrophize, and panic in ways that don't allow her to get herself across very easily.

Twilight's development in S3 is about delegation. Not taking every task she thinks she's capable of on her own, and instead being able to fully trust her friends to carry things out where appropriate.

It's not perfectly sequential, I suppose, but neither is development in real life. I think it works.

It's not like the dynamic of the show has shifted that dramatically without friendship letters. The show is still about groups of friends, their interactions with each other, and self-discovery. S4 shifted a bit to include the main cast playing off of new faces, but it still has an element of friendship, with each of them essentially befriending and teaching a person something. Just because we don't hear "today, I leaned _______ about friendship" every episode, does not mean that friendship has left the show's core.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:31 am

Discord wrote:
Twilight is still the main character, but she doesn't get particularly more focus than the rest over the course of a season (except, funnily enough, probably S1). Her journey just has her going to bigger places.


No, Twilight was never the main character of the show. She may be focused on, but saying she's the lead, I don't think is right. If she was the lead, then she would be the focus of every episode. In fact, if anything, in S1 she was the lead character. What I feel makes the Princess thing a bit out of the blue, is as of S2 and S3, she was never in the spotlight, save for the premiers and finales. In order for a lead to be a lead, they would always have to be the focus. But starting S2, she lost that.

Perhaps you could mix up S2/S3, but considering how short S3 is, I don't see it as a huge issue. And the two seasons DO try to do different things with Twilight's development that are distinct.


What development? I could put Too Many Pinkie Pies after Lesson Zero, and it wouldn't make any difference. That's my point about mixing seasons. That's 39 episodes, there is no train of development, therefore there cannot be any.

Twilight's development in S2 getting over her flaw to exaggerate, catastrophize, and panic in ways that don't allow her to get herself across very easily.


Of what episodes? Lesson Zero and It's About Time? That's hardly any development, out of the season. That may have been the focus of the episodes, but there is no way you could point out that trait of Twilight in Sweet and Elite, Super Squeezy, MMMystery, Hoof Down, and so much more. This goes to my point that Twilight is not at all the lead.

Twilight's development in S3 is about delegation. Not taking every task she thinks she's capable of on her own, and instead being able to fully trust her friends to carry things out where appropriate.


Maybe there is a little more of this in S3, but it is still only such a minor thing in relation to the rest of the episodes. It could very well be in S2, and all it was, would just be another lesson. There is no progression to lead to this.

It's not like the dynamic of the show has shifted that dramatically without friendship letters. The show is still about groups of friends, their interactions with each other, and self-discovery. S4 shifted a bit to include the main cast playing off of new faces, but it still has an element of friendship, with each of them essentially befriending and teaching a person something. Just because we don't hear "today, I leaned _______ about friendship" every episode, does not mean that friendship has left the show's core.


While this can't be a criticism of the show, I believe I am allowed to make this point out of personal taste. To me, part of the charm was having to write to the Princess. Removing that, removed part of why I liked it.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:44 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:No, Twilight was never the main character of the show. She may be focused on, but saying she's the lead, I don't think is right. If she was the lead, then she would be the focus of every episode. In fact, if anything, in S1 she was the lead character. What I feel makes the Princess thing a bit out of the blue, is as of S2 and S3, she was never in the spotlight, save for the premiers and finales. In order for a lead to be a lead, they would always have to be the focus. But starting S2, she lost that.


In as much as the show has a lead, it's Twilight by a country mile. Look at every major milestone event in the history of the show, from the very first episode to Season 4 finale. It's always Twilight leading the charge.

ShieldedDiamond wrote:While this can't be a criticism of the show, I believe I am allowed to make this point out of personal taste. To me, part of the charm was having to write to the Princess. Removing that, removed part of why I liked it.


What's your long-term plan for that, though? If you had your way, would Twilight be writing letters to Celestia forever?
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:14 am

Yeah, I think Twilight is the most notable of the main characters in terms of storyline.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:19 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Yeah, I think Twilight is the most notable of the main characters in terms of storyline.

She really did suffer for it in seasons 2 and 3, since she got so few big appearances outside of the premieres and finales, in which she was always the big hero. Season 4 was thankfully a lot better about this, both in heroics (while she was still the star of PTS and Twilight's Kingdom, I think her friends had far more important parts in them than they had in the past) and not (Twilight Time and TT123 I've often raved about, as well as Three's a Crowd which I've come to think is a bit underrated).
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:44 pm

If you tried to describe the premise of the show, like if you were writing a description for Netflix or something, you would definitely frame it in terms of Twilight's journey. If FiM were a movie, Tara Strong would have primary billing in the opening credits, much as she was in EqG.

This doesn't mean a large part of the show can focus on other characters from time to time, even to her exclusion. And it doesn't mean they can't adjust the focus of the show as they go. But she is the star, the show's Don Draper or Jerry Seinfeld, and was designed as such from the beginning.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:14 pm

Exactly. Twilight was the main character from the start of the show...even though S1 had it mandated. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Durandal (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:41 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:Not before we get the pony Frieza saga.


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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:19 pm

PaulloDEC wrote:
In as much as the show has a lead, it's Twilight by a country mile. Look at every major milestone event in the history of the show, from the very first episode to Season 4 finale. It's always Twilight leading the charge.


Every "major milestone" has been the writers cramming in plot into the season book-ends, that's really poor writing if you ask me. How do those events have any effect on the rest of the season? What makes it mandatory for me to watch Return of Harmony prior to Sweet and Elite? In the bulk of the entire series, it's impossible to say Twilight is the lead, as her only role is in the season bookends. This isn't a complex show with an over-arcing plot. I believe saying such is nothing more than an illusion. How could Twilight be the lead by "a country mile", when since S2 she has had such a minor role as the rest of the Mane 6 in the majority of the other episodes?

What's your long-term plan for that, though? If you had your way, would Twilight be writing letters to Celestia forever?


I would have kept it in the same fashion as S2. I believe that was a fine formula, and it would take a while to get old. And by the time it does, it would be time for the show to end anyway.

Headless Horse wrote:But she is the star, the show's Don Draper or Jerry Seinfeld, and was designed as such from the beginning.


No, she's not. How many Spongebob episodes are there where Spongebob is not the main focus? Some, but very little. This isn't, as I said, My Little Pony: Twilight Sparkle Adventures. If I were to compare it to something, it would be like that of Optimus Prime in Transformers. Yes, Optimus Prime is part of the main cast. But he is by no means the central star, as there are several other characters who if removed, there would be something off with the show. The same applies here. Are you saying there is more weight if Twilight was removed, than if Fluttershy was removed?
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:37 pm

Well, Twilight has been the main focus of a lot of episodes, even discarding S1 where she had to be in them. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:56 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:No, she's not. How many Spongebob episodes are there where Spongebob is not the main focus? Some, but very little. This isn't, as I said, My Little Pony: Twilight Sparkle Adventures. If I were to compare it to something, it would be like that of Optimus Prime in Transformers. Yes, Optimus Prime is part of the main cast. But he is by no means the central star, as there are several other characters who if removed, there would be something off with the show. The same applies here. Are you saying there is more weight if Twilight was removed, than if Fluttershy was removed?


Is this a trick question? Yes. :rariwhat:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:07 pm

I've never really seen Twilight as the main character. The show has always really seemed an ensemble affair. The last few two part episodes have ignored that, but the series as a while I would still call an ensemble episode. Even in the pilot, though Twilight was the focus character for the audience, the story was about all of them starting their friendship and going on an adventure.

Think Star Wars. Luke was the focus character in the first film, but was no more a main character than Han, who showed up 30 minutes in.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:35 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:Every "major milestone" has been the writers cramming in plot into the season book-ends, that's really poor writing if you ask me. How do those events have any effect on the rest of the season? What makes it mandatory for me to watch Return of Harmony prior to Sweet and Elite? In the bulk of the entire series, it's impossible to say Twilight is the lead, as her only role is in the season bookends. This isn't a complex show with an over-arcing plot. I believe saying such is nothing more than an illusion. How could Twilight be the lead by "a country mile", when since S2 she has had such a minor role as the rest of the Mane 6 in the majority of the other episodes?


You've yourself acknowledged the letters to Celestia more than once as being of key importance in the show, and yet you don't want to acknowledge the character who was writing them week-in-week-out was more globally significant than the others? I specifically said earlier "In as much as the show has a lead" because you're right in saying that it doesn't have a lead in the traditional sense.

And you say that the show doesn't have an over-arcing plot, but I'd argue it absolutely does. The over-arcing plot as far as I'm concerned is that of Twilight Sparkle learning about friendship and consequently finding her place in the world. That comes up time and time again, and none of the other characters are given the same focus.

The Doctor wrote:I've never really seen Twilight as the main character. The show has always really seemed an ensemble affair. The last few two part episodes have ignored that, but the series as a while I would still call an ensemble episode. Even in the pilot, though Twilight was the focus character for the audience, the story was about all of them starting their friendship and going on an adventure.

Think Star Wars. Luke was the focus character in the first film, but was no more a main character than Han, who showed up 30 minutes in.


The show is absolutely an ensemble, you're right. It doesn't have a lead in the traditional sense that they dominate proceedings, but looking at the show from a bigger picture perspective makes it absolutely clear whose story this is.

I would have kept it in the same fashion as S2. I believe that was a fine formula, and it would take a while to get old. And by the time it does, it would be time for the show to end anyway.


Yikes. We'll have to agree to disagree there. While parts of the process haven't been handled ideally (the shorter length of Season 3 was the big spanner in the works for me), the way they've committed to advancing the story in Friendship is Magic rather than taking the easy way out and just doing the same thing forever has been one of the features about it I've admired the most.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:45 pm

PaulloDEC wrote:The show is absolutely an ensemble, you're right. It doesn't have a lead in the traditional sense that they dominate proceedings, but looking at the show from a bigger picture perspective makes it absolutely clear whose story this is.





See I don't think so. A few episodes focus on Twilight. But a few episodes focus on other characters as well. I will agree the bookend episodes have focused on Twilight, sometimes by quite clumsily shoving everyone else out of the picture.

But take season 4. Without those bookends, are the other 22 episodes of the season in any way Twilight's story more than any of the other ponies?

What about season 3 without the bookends?

Season 1 and 2 premiers were not entirely Twilight stories, she was the focus to get the story rolling, but ultimately they are stories about the entire cast. Season 1 finale was most certainly an ensemble episode.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:46 pm

Discovery Family will be at NYCC talking about their new line-up & future plans. Hopefully we can get some info on air dates for season 5 of FIM & Season 1 of EQA! Even if it's just which month. *knock on wood*

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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:53 pm

PaulloDEC wrote:the way they've committed to advancing the story in Friendship is Magic rather than taking the easy way out and just doing the same thing forever has been one of the features about it I've admired the most.


But those were Hasbro mandates. The writers handled things really well and I'm satisfied with the results, but I doubt they would have advanced the story nearly as much if Hasbro hadn't told them that Twilight needed to become a princess with a pretty castle :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Passport Clean (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:55 pm

Durandal wrote: :twismug: "Well, Tirek, looks like you....
:wingsright: ....dropped the ball!!"


That bit right after with the fast cutting between screams that ends in a BSOD just kills me. :lol:

... say, didn't these threads used to get locked and restarted every month?
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:56 pm

Eh, I disagree. They would have found other ways to advance the story. And if not... Well then thank you Hasbro for your mandates being used as fuel for the story advancing fire!!
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:05 am

The Doctor wrote:See I don't think so. A few episodes focus on Twilight. But a few episodes focus on other characters as well. I will agree the bookend episodes have focused on Twilight, sometimes by quite clumsily shoving everyone else out of the picture.

But take season 4. Without those bookends, are the other 22 episodes of the season in any way Twilight's story more than any of the other ponies?

What about season 3 without the bookends?

Season 1 and 2 premiers were not entirely Twilight stories, she was the focus to get the story rolling, but ultimately they are stories about the entire cast. Season 1 finale was most certainly an ensemble episode.


Sure, and this is why I keep pushing the idea that in an episode-to-episode sense it's an ensemble, but from a global perspective it's about Twilight Sparkle's journey. The finales might be easily removed from the other episodes leaving a purely ensemble show, but if we're looking at the series as a whole, Twilight's story is a key thread that consistently appears every season. No other character in the show has their personal story chronicled in the way Twilight does.

Highbrow Dash wrote:
But those were Hasbro mandates. The writers handled things really well and I'm satisfied with the results, but I doubt they would have advanced the story nearly as much if Hasbro hadn't told them that Twilight needed to become a princess with a pretty castle :pinkieshrug:


That's a fair point. In some ways, it makes me admire what they've done all the more. They've taken a bunch of disparate requests from the marketing division and managed to tell a coherent, if occasionally rushed story that holds up pretty well for a show of this kind.

SoundMonkey44 wrote:Eh, I disagree. They would have found other ways to advance the story. And if not... Well then thank you Hasbro for your mandates being used as fuel for the story advancing fire!!


Also this.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:48 am

Headless Horse wrote:
Is this a trick question? Yes. :rariwhat:


Um, no it's not a trick question. And that's a bit crazy to say yes, especially when we've gotten episodes without Twilight, and without Fluttershy, and the show hasn't collapsed. Sisterhooves Social is an episode with only 2 of the Mane 6, and it gets along just fine. We have had plenty of episodes without certain characters.

PaulloDEC wrote:
You've yourself acknowledged the letters to Celestia more than once as being of key importance in the show, and yet you don't want to acknowledge the character who was writing them week-in-week-out was more globally significant than the others? I specifically said earlier "In as much as the show has a lead" because you're right in saying that it doesn't have a lead in the traditional sense.


You're chopping up what I'm saying. I'm saying, I preferred it when everyone wrote to Celestia. That was S2. Therefore, my point still stands that she is not. She was merely, if anything, just setting up the first season.

And you say that the show doesn't have an over-arcing plot, but I'd argue it absolutely does. The over-arcing plot as far as I'm concerned is that of Twilight Sparkle learning about friendship and consequently finding her place in the world. That comes up time and time again, and none of the other characters are given the same focus.


Finding her place in the world? Hasn't that been resolved by Friendship is Magic Part 2? And I feel you're cutting out characters, for the sake of proving this point. What about Rainbow Dash? While I don't believe the show has any character arcs, do to it's episodes not having a clear point in canon, out of all the ponies, Rainbow Dash developed, as with each passing episode with the Wonderbolts, she goes from fangirl, to actually trying to work hard for them. So she is given that focus. And that's just one example of the Mane 6. Rarity also has clearly already made it in the fashion industry by now, is that something else to be ignored to? There is no way this is just: MLP: Twilight's Adventures.

The show is absolutely an ensemble, you're right. It doesn't have a lead in the traditional sense that they dominate proceedings, but looking at the show from a bigger picture perspective makes it absolutely clear whose story this is.


What biggest perspective? The biggest perspective is: "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is about a group of friends who through everyday things learn the meanings of friendship." That is the biggest, most general description of the show. Think of it like zooming out to see everything, without the details.

The Doctor wrote:Think Star Wars. Luke was the focus character in the first film, but was no more a main character than Han, who showed up 30 minutes in.


This is my point exactly.

I would have kept it in the same fashion as S2. I believe that was a fine formula, and it would take a while to get old. And by the time it does, it would be time for the show to end anyway.


Yikes. We'll have to agree to disagree there. While parts of the process haven't been handled ideally (the shorter length of Season 3 was the big spanner in the works for me), the way they've committed to advancing the story in Friendship is Magic rather than taking the easy way out and just doing the same thing forever has been one of the features about it I've admired the most.[/quote]

Who is "we all", you're saying I'm wrong for preferring S2's formula? All I said was part of the charm for me was summarizing the lesson in the episode to the Princess. And I liked it when they all did that.

PaulloDEC wrote:
Sure, and this is why I keep pushing the idea that in an episode-to-episode sense it's an ensemble, but from a global perspective it's about Twilight Sparkle's journey. The finales might be easily removed from the other episodes leaving a purely ensemble show, but if we're looking at the series as a whole, Twilight's story is a key thread that consistently appears every season. No other character in the show has their personal story chronicled in the way Twilight does.


How can you say in an episode to episode sense it's an ensemble, but from a global perspective it isn't? Twilight's two-part "Oh crap we need story" episodes, what make them any different than an episode pulled from the middle of the season, focusing on one pony? Just because they are season bookends? I don't think that gives it special rights. Twilight's story cannot be something that appears in every season in a higher standing than the others, because since S2, she has never been the focus, it's almost been random, on an episode to episode basis. It's either an ensemble show about a group of friends, or it's a show about Twilight. The latter could have been an argument for Season 1, but as of Lesson Zero, she's clearly lost that unique aspect.

That's a fair point. In some ways, it makes me admire what they've done all the more. They've taken a bunch of disparate requests from the marketing division and managed to tell a coherent, if occasionally rushed story that holds up pretty well for a show of this kind.


Disparate? You make it sound like Hasbro has no idea what they're doing, and this is all the writer's credit. I feel like people in this fandom have just taken a relationship like that of COBRA to Serpentor and Cobra Commander in GI Joe. Despite both doing their share of the work, whenever it was a victory, the praise went to Serpentor. Whenever it was a failure, Cobra Commander got the scolding. Whoever's fault it was. Might that be the case here? We've seen in the past shows that have been successful, yet toy lines that sold very poorly. Maybe if that were the case, Hasbro deserves the scolding, but considering how successful their toy lines have been, I don't think that's the case. Let's not forget Equestria Girls, and how Hasbro mandate was blamed and shunned, yet if I recall correctly, the dolls sold far better than the leading competitor, Monster High. All I am saying, is perhaps Hasbro isn't really as inept at business, saying it's just throwing mandates at them, when maybe the case is, they're doing a fine job.

SoundMonkey44 wrote:Discovery Family will be at NYCC talking about their new line-up & future plans. Hopefully we can get some info on air dates for season 5 of FIM & Season 1 of EQA! Even if it's just which month. *knock on wood*

https://twitter.com/discoveryfamlly/sta ... 4267827201


I'll be there for that, I'll post if anything is said live.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:50 am

@shield: Awesome! You're the best! :awesomedash:
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Sunset Shimmer is BEST Hu-Mane!!
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:00 am

SoundMonkey44 wrote:@shield: Awesome! You're the best! :awesomedash:


Don't thank me yet, I just checked NYCC's lineup, and it doesn't show anything yet, the only thing of interest being IDW's pony comics. I'm assuming that Discovery just put it in, as the tweet was only a few hours ago, and I'm hoping the crew at NYCC didn't put it in yet. I'll check again tomorrow.

That being said, Hasbro definitely has a presence, as it appears one panel is trying to show off a new Transformers cartoon. Hopefully, wherever that will air when they talk about it, will shed some light on Pony.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:20 am

Didn't we learn pretty much nothing about S4 at last year's NYCC? I remember there being some sort of special invite-only event hosted by Hasbro, but I don't think it revealed a single thing about the show. IDW's panel that year is what announced the Friends Forever series of the pony comics, though, so we can maybe look forward to IDW having something new this year.
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Postby doodlesplat (?) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:55 am

Looking at this Twilight vs Ensemble issue bottom up, starting with premises that are more or less certain, and then building conclusions from that.
:ponynet:

Are there subsets of episodes where the chronological order of episodes is implied to be fixed?
Yes, eg. Ticket Master, Suited For Success, Best Night Ever.
So I'd say this show does have arcs.

Are there any arcs that span the entire series thus far? (ie. from beginning to end, not necessarily dominating)
Yes, eg. Friendship is Magic, Return of Harmony, Magical Mystery Cure, Princess Twilight Sparkle, Twilight's Kingdom
To me, this qualifies the show as having an "over-arcing plot".

---

If we try to make an abridged version of the show by choosing episodes in a way to focus on a single character, which character would have the largest or most cohesive set of episodes?
Twilight Sparkle (arguably). For example, s1 1, 2, 6, 9, 11, 23; s2 1, 2, 3, 20, 25, 26; s3 1, 2, 5, 12, 13; s4 1, 2, 11, 25, 26

The removal of which one of the main characters would affect the show the most?
Twilight Sparkle (arguably), though that is not to say the removal of any other would not have a significant effect also.

Of the main six, which one has the most screentime?
Twilight Sparkle by far.
http://dziadek1990.deviantart.com/art/M ... -337587344
http://halfbattle.com/mlp/screentime.html

So, if this were a show about a single character, there's a pretty strong case that it would be about Twilight Sparkle.

---

Does any one character appear in every single episode?
No. http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Character_appearances

Does any one character appear in an overwhelmingly greater number of episodes than any other character?
No. (see links above)

Are there ensemble episodes in the show?
Yes, eg. Best Night Ever.

How ensemble-y is this show, on a per episode basis?
I subjectively rated each episode from 0 (not ensemble at all) to 4 (totally ensemble episode). Two-parters were considered together and the same overall score given to both episodes. Data available upon request.

Number of episodes I assigned a score of...
0: 0
1: 12
2: 14
3: 28
4: 37
Mean: 3.0

Even if my ratings were very inaccurate, a mean of 3.0 makes it difficult to say that this is a "single character show". The distribution of scores supports poorly that this is a "purely ensemble" show. Altogether, the numbers support fairly well that this is an ensemble-heavy show.

This is a show about an ensemble of friends, where Twilight Sparkle's journey is featured.
Enjoy your Friday, everyone. :-I
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:13 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Didn't we learn pretty much nothing about S4 at last year's NYCC? I remember there being some sort of special invite-only event hosted by Hasbro, but I don't think it revealed a single thing about the show. IDW's panel that year is what announced the Friends Forever series of the pony comics, though, so we can maybe look forward to IDW having something new this year.


They do have a special room on Thursday, but having a 4-day pass, and if I bring my shareholder's papers, there's a small chance I can get in, so I can give it a shot.


doodlesplat wrote:This is a show about an ensemble of friends, where Twilight Sparkle's journey is featured.


I'm okay with this conclusion. :-I
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