Offseason General Show Chat

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Re: [s]Almost[/s] Actually Offseason General Show Chat

Postby acksed (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 1:34 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:The actual show itself has been the exact same one since Day One, hasn't been ruined by anything and that's what matters in the long run. Kids will still be watching the show and DVDs long after the fandom has passed.

My housemate introduced her friend's children to it, two girls of 6 and 8 respectively. Said friend said she'd never heard them be so quiet for so long, and they still wanted to watch more. :twiright:
:rainbert: "Rarity, you look ridiculous."
:vogue: "I'm going to ignore that comment out of a desire to help you."
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Postby Octavia (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 1:40 pm

Tailspin wrote:Kids watching now can't search for their favorite character on the internet without running into gore and porn. Do you honestly think that will be any different in the future?

Lots of bronies are actively working to fix this.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 1:42 pm

Mr. Big wrote:EDIT: For context, the infamous article that pretty much lead to today.


That Cartoon Brew article gets a lot of flack, but reading it again, it's not wrong. And it's not even about the pony show in particular.

...networks clearly prefer established properties over original ideas, and dislike dealing with individual artists who have a clear creative vision.


I mean, he's right. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 1:59 pm

And by your logic, most popular cartoons have "brought shit" because of fandoms. Bugs Bunny would have only appeared in a couple of cartoons if it wern't for fans during the wartime era. Most of The Simpsons supporting cast wouldn't have stuck around if it wern't for fans, etc. And "Pony" is hardly unique as far as unsafe internet search goes (and as Octavia pointed out, a lot of fans are trying to fix it)

I think you need to chill a bit, Tailspin. I'm honestly wondering why you're still posting here, since I get the impression that we're making you very unhappy.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 2:04 pm

Mr. Big wrote:I think you need to chill a bit, Tailspin. I'm honestly wondering why you're still posting here based on your feelings.


It's not inconsistent to like the show, while thinking some of the show's fans are awful.
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 2:19 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:Didn't someone here make a picture of her making the :pcstare: face, except her hair is replaced with an actual aurora streaking across a night sky?


Image

:unenthused: Yes, she had her 'Hair Metal' / 'Punk Pop' phase back then.

:unenthused: She'd sit there on her throne strumming away at her beginners guitar, not plugged into an amp or anything and listen to the complaints of her subjects one by one.

:unenthused: They'd want to discuss zoning laws; can't have a candy store next to a school or whatever and she'd just look all sullen from behind that poofy mane and strum strum strum. I don't think she actually learned to play.
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Postby Venusy (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 2:23 pm

It's impossible to predict where the show would have gone without bronies, aside from the fact that it would have likely ended at S3E13. Without the energy that bronies bought, would the staff have felt the need to keep pushing themselves in S2 and S3? Outside of the US, the franchise probably wouldn't look very healthy, as Hasbro did a really bad job with international marketing (admittedly, they might find it would have been easier to sell the show to international networks). Hasbro would also be missing WLF merchandise revenue, and the comics would have never progressed past the clip-art ones in magazines.

Return of Harmony was in the S1 production block. Discord predates bronies, and I feel like it's likely they might have still brought him back if bronies never happened.

It is bad that kids can't search for favourite characters without horrible things being suggested in the search suggestions. It is bad that some bronies are abusive, abrasive arseholes that never seem to learn anything from the show they claim to love. It is bad that others exhibit the geek social fallacy of ostracizing being evil, and thus siding with the arseholes rather than the people they're attacking. But these people would just be doing the same thing about something else. The problem is not fandom specific, it's just a lot easier to see a fandom's problems while inside it.

I do genuinely feel that the show has inspired some to become better people - connecting with others, getting over some hang ups, maybe getting a reminder on a lesson that didn't quite sink in the first time round. :flutterunsmith: It has inspired a lot of people to become more creative. And I don't know how many people would have ever had this inspiration without connecting with others, how they'd have even started watching in the first place. The bad is still really bad - the good doesn't counteract that - but it's not as simple as "all bronies and everything they ever did are scum". Fight against those who wish to harm others. It doesn't mean you can't appreciate the good. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 2:32 pm

PictishBeast wrote:
It's not inconsistent to like the show, while thinking some of the show's fans are awful.


This.

I hate the fandom because I like the show and don't like what they've done to it. Which is turn it into another stupid "nerd thing".
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 2:35 pm

Venusy wrote:I do genuinely feel that the show has inspired some to become better people - connecting with others, getting over some hang ups, maybe getting a reminder on a lesson that didn't quite sink in the first time round. :flutterunsmith: It has inspired a lot of people to become more creative. And I don't know how many people would have ever had this inspiration without connecting with others, how they'd have even started watching in the first place.

I agree with the entire post, but I especially want to give this part attention. "Pony" inspired me to give my own girl characters a chance with my comic, and it effectively changed (or rather, in the middle of changing) my life because of it. I probably would have done another strip if it wern't for this show, but I probably would never have considered a girl lead otherwise.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 2:45 pm

Scuderia Ferrarity wrote:
Image

:unenthused: Yes, she had her 'Hair Metal' / 'Punk Pop' phase back then.

:unenthused: She'd sit there on her throne strumming away at her beginners guitar, not plugged into an amp or anything and listen to the complaints of her subjects one by one.

:unenthused: They'd want to discuss zoning laws; can't have a candy store next to a school or whatever and she'd just look all sullen from behind that poofy mane and strum strum strum. I don't think she actually learned to play.


They all had that phase.

Image

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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 3:04 pm

Celestia's mane required the passing of half a dozen zoning laws in Canterlot because of how freaking big and wavy it is.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 3:09 pm

DerFurShur wrote:Celestia's mane required the passing of half a dozen zoning laws in Canterlot because of how freaking big and wavy it is.


:spoiler: She's on good terms with Equestria's ruler.
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 3:12 pm

As well as the ruler's sister, her "niece", and the ruler's personally picked protege.
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 3:18 pm

Like most things with humans, they're complicated and often have multiple layers.

I don't think Amid's article did too much to spark the fanbase inasmuch as any of his other articles have influence on people in general (it was posted months before any critical mass came about). The Ms. Magazine article (and said followup) probably did a bit more because of Lauren's involvement, but it too was still very early. The show didn't really get any kind of fandom mass until late December 2010/early January 2011. The fandom wasn't really a broad "thing" that gained any kind of notoriety or mass until mid-2011. Before that time, it was still in the ranks of various online fandoms, the kind of things that you don't hear about in the news but form because of people's shared interests. It was a largely organic thing that grew over months as various places were exposed to the pony bug. It kind of is the figurative definition of viral. Hasbro's lax enforcement of piracy had a lot more to do with how the show spread. Being able to watch the show on Youtube at your own pace instead of having to catch it on TV was huge back then.

At least for me personally, the fandom didn't feel too different from many of the other things I had been involved in the past until sometime around the fall of 2011. That's when things started getting bigger than just your average internet fandom. The first Wired article about the fandom (featuring the pic of Sethisto with the toy in his palm) was the turning point, I think. Then we got the first BroNYcon meetups in June and September, and then BroNYcon January was the point of no return.

Compared to how things were in the past, I think what allowed it to spread so much was the prevalence of social media. There was no Facebook or Twitter back in 2000, so when, say, Powerpuffs was at the height of its popularity, the fandom that was very much akin to fans of this show was consigned to forums, typical early 2000s fan sites, usenet, and Yahoo groups. The elements were all there back then too; the fanfic communities, the art, and such. That show didn't have the stereotypes that Ponies has either. Even though it's "little girl superheroes" it was a new product, with no history for people to latch on to. Pony is a long-time established brand with history and a lot of meaning to a lot of people, so there's expectations that new properties don't have. The easily digestible bits that turned into memes and could be shared easily in all of your friend's faces on Twitter, Facebook, other online communities, and even in real life helped push it everywhere. It's surprising how many average people are fans, who don't really have any interaction with the fandom per se beyond a surface level. The people I've met at conventions, who likely just catch up on news occasionally from EqD or see fanart on DA now and then but are still big fans of the show. I think people forget that the type of people who get really involved in fandom are the outliers. Even the number of commenters on, say, EQD are vastly outweighed by the number of people who simply view the site.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 3:23 pm

Tailspin wrote:Also, the show has very much changed. If the bronies weren't around the writers wouldn't shove in stupid characters like Bulk Biceps or Derpy just so they could be cool with the bronies. Or Discord for that matter.


I'm fairly certain Discord was planned long before the brony phenomenon took off. Same for Ditzy Do (I'll cop to bronies being behind the name change).
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 3:26 pm

Plus, I think that those characters have enhanced the show in their own way. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 3:26 pm

I don't really see how Bulk would have ever been a brony nod. He been a visual gag in all appearances that I doubt have anything to do with adult fans.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 4:06 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Plus, I think that those characters have enhanced the show in their own way. :pinkieshrug:


I like Derpy and I'm glad we saw more of her this past season. :twiright:
:speakest: The fun has been doubled!
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Postby TheNegaverser (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 5:17 pm

At this point, the fandom is large and diverse enough that any sort of generalization is gonna be inaccurate. That's just what happens when you look at any big group. People are people - including all the goods and bads that go with that.

The only thing that I can speak for is my own perspective on the fandom. If the question ever comes up, I am more than happy to identify myself as a "Brony." Sure, somebody could use that label to lump me in with the unsavory parts of the fandom. But if they want to judge me before getting to know me, then that's their issue. :pinkieshrug:

However, my personal experience with the fandom has been overwhelmingly positive. Sure, I could go on and on about how X group is doing something bad, or how Y group is ruining everything, or whatever. But none of those things are why I became a Brony. I became a Brony because I wanted to interact with nice people who enjoy this silly show as much as I do. And guess what? I'd say mission accomplished! Throughout my dealings with fandom (this site being a big part of that), I've met some wonderful individuals, many of whom I'm pleased to call my friends.

None of that would have happened without me getting involved in the fandom. At the end of the day, the fandom has impacted me in a positive way. And at end of the day, that's what really matters.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 5:37 pm

I'm not really sure where the 'nods to the bronies' stop and 'the show makers having fun with their own ideas' begins. I mean, Derpy's inclusion is definitely a fan nod (and I don't really mind it in this case) but characters like Bulk Biceps seem more like staff favorites to me. Were bronies really begging for more of him?
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 5:51 pm

PictishBeast wrote:
It's not inconsistent to like the show, while thinking some of the show's fans are awful.


I agree. Because some f the actions are really rather bad, making other parts look bad.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 6:03 pm

Ransom wrote:I'm not really sure where the 'nods to the bronies' stop and 'the show makers having fun with their own ideas' begins. I mean, Derpy's inclusion is definitely a fan nod (and I don't really mind it in this case) but characters like Bulk Biceps seem more like staff favorites to me. Were bronies really begging for more of him?

This, exactly. Really, it's much more on the side of show staff having fun than pandering to the fans (and, of course, some of the show's staff are fans themselves).

And that's OK. Animation needs to be fun, and the people making them needs to have fun as well. One of the problems in the animation industry is that it's not as fun making cartoons these days, so I'm glad the Pony people are having fun with it.

:party: FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 6:03 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
I agree. Because some f the actions are really rather bad, making other parts look bad.

There's a difference between disapproving of bad things fans do and convincing yourself that everything fans do is bad. People here tend to slide toward the latter more often than is healthy, especially in believing any sort of in-show callback is "pandering to bronies."
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 6:09 pm

Yeah, things like Discord and Bulk Biceps aren't pandering to me, it's the writers wanting to have fun with some interesting characters. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 6:21 pm

Well, I don't think everything in the show is fan-pandering, like Octavia appearing, or Discord. I would imagine that Discord's arc was planned. Bulk Biceps was probably not fan-pandering either. But things like Derpy, or Vinyl having a role in EqG, that's where this comes in. The things that wouldn't be there if it weren't for the fandom.

The way I see it, fandoms aren't bad. But if they do this that alter things in the show, that wouldn't be changef if it weren't for them, that's where I question things. Not everything popular is "for the fans", but some things are kind of clear.

But that's how I feel. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 6:30 pm

That's a perfectly reasonable opinion. It's also not what Mr. Big was objecting to in posts like:
Tailspin wrote:Also, the show has very much changed. If the bronies weren't around the writers wouldn't shove in stupid characters like Bulk Biceps or Derpy just so they could be cool with the bronies. Or Discord for that matter.

The show and the franchise would've been better off without the bronies, they only brought shit.
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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 6:36 pm

Bremen wrote:
I'm fairly certain Discord was planned long before the brony phenomenon took off. Same for Ditzy Do (I'll cop to bronies being behind the name change).


His initial appearance yes, but I doubt Keep Calm and Flutter On would've been made if bronies didn't exist.
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Postby Doctor Wheeze (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 6:37 pm

I think bronies have definitely led to them paying more attention to the background ponies. Not gag characters like Bulk Biceps, but I have to imagine the showrunners wouldn't even really think about what background ponies to stick in a scene if people weren't drawing attention to it. Just look at the crowd shots in season 4: they're all full of cameos and recognizable faces. And I think that's a positive impact on the show - it makes Ponyville seem more real and gives a little extra flavor to viewers who are paying attention.
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Postby Discord (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:04 pm

Tailspin wrote:
His initial appearance yes, but I doubt Keep Calm and Flutter On would've been made if bronies didn't exist.


It really delves too deeply into conjecture to be certain. It happened for many and multiple possible reasons.

Regardless, though you don't seem to care for him these days, his greater inclusion has been a net positive to the show in my mind. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:05 pm

Doctor Wheeze wrote:I think bronies have definitely led to them paying more attention to the background ponies. Not gag characters like Bulk Biceps, but I have to imagine the showrunners wouldn't even really think about what background ponies to stick in a scene if people weren't drawing attention to it. Just look at the crowd shots in season 4: they're all full of cameos and recognizable faces. And I think that's a positive impact on the show - it makes Ponyville seem more real and gives a little extra flavor to viewers who are paying attention.


Yeah. For all its faults, anything bronies impacted on the show, if at all, is mostly positive. There were missteps, like the whole "Derpy" thing, but for the most part the show is just as good.

And Discord is a great character. If him becoming a minor character is because of bronies, that's a good thing. :excellent:
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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:15 pm

Discord wrote:Regardless, though you don't seem to care for him these days, his greater inclusion has been a net positive to the show in my mind. :pinkieshrug:


Quite frankly, his continued existance and shitty treatment of Fluttershy and her friends is pretty much saying "yeah, it's prefectly fine if someone treats you like a piece of shit, as long as they claim they are your friend".
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:16 pm

It's all played for jokes, though, and not meant to be taken seriously.

I like that Discord is around, a semi-asshole character there to balance everyone else. He's a jerk, but a kind you can laugh with. :lol:
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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:19 pm

If this were any other show, I would agree with you. But this isn't Dan Vs. and it doesn't have that self awarness that Dan Vs. has that it's pretty obvious Dan is a shithead and Chriss is a dumbass for putting up with him. That's where the humor comes from. Here, the only reason they put up with him is because the writers don't want to get rid of Discord
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:21 pm

I don't know, he always seems to get his comeuppance every time he appears. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:21 pm

Tailspin wrote:Except the show treats him like he's a genuine friend. It doesn't have that self awarness that Dan Vs. has that it's pretty obvious Dan is a shithead and Chriss is a dumbass for putting up with him. That's where the humor. Here, the only reason they put up with him is because the writers don't want to get rid of Discord.

Where do you see that? At least until "Twilight's Kingdom", one of the Ponies LIKE Discord, and only put up with him because Celestia said so.

Fluttershy is the only one who genuinely likes him.
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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:22 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:I don't know, he always seems to get his comeuppance every time he appears. :pinkieshrug:



I have yet to see it. He always ends up being forgiven in the end, no matter how much of a danger or nuisence he is.

Mr. Big wrote:Fluttershy is the only one who genuinely likes him.


And I have to wonder why considering how badly he treats her, but she always justifies it. He bullies her and she accepts it.

Friendship is magic, I guess.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:26 pm

Tailspin wrote:He always ends up being forgiven in the end, no matter how much he of a danger or nuisence he is.

What about "Three's a Crowd"? They (save Fluttershy) say Discord saw it coming when he actually gets sick (see, he DID get a comeuppance). And Twilight got mad at him in the end of "Princess Twilight Sparkle" because Discord didn't tell her about the seeds. Again, I can only think of "Twilight's Kingdom" where he actually gets forgiven.

And after he gets "reformed", he mistreats Fluttershy the least. The worst I can think of is when he betrays everyone in "Kingdom".

I think you're projecting here.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:27 pm

He doesn't bully her at all, he's supposed to be somewhat of a annoyance like Q or Dr. Smith and I highly doubt that the showrunners are saying his behaviour is OK.

Also, he definitely got what he deserved in Three's A Crowd.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:27 pm

How does Discord bully Fluttershy? He treats her better then the rest of the mane six by far! Hell Angel Bunny is a bigger bully to shy then anyone else in her circle of friends.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Fri May 23, 2014 7:28 pm

Yeah, Discord is nice to Fluttershy because she's nice to him. Simple as that. The worst he does is annoy her.
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