Offseason General Show Chat

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Re: [s]Almost[/s] Actually Offseason General Show Chat

Postby Mr. Big (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 2:01 am

Some shows did both 11 min. and 22 min. formats interchangeably, like The Powerpuff Girls and Pinky and the Brain.

I'm actually hoping that Pony would do that someday, alternating between eleven-minute shows and twenty-two minute shows every now and then. I think it can work.

And remember, there was a time when cartoons were only 5 minutes long. There was also a time when a TV cartoon ran for 25 minutes, but this was back when there were fewer commercials.
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Postby Kitsune (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 2:07 am

I dunno, they seem to be writing very much in a way to really fill those 22 minutes. It could technically work, but given how most episodes aim for emotional impact, I think that'd be a lot harder to do consistently when some episodes are half the usual length.

Plus, Lauren herself wanted longer episodes, and Ticket Master actually got expanded from 11 minutes to 22.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 2:13 am

I almost want to take an episode and edit it down to 11 minutes, to see what that would be like. :ponder:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 2:15 am

What benefit would FiM have from doing such short episodes, anyway? I mean, like this:
Mr. Big wrote:The benefit of 11 minute shorts is they just cut to the chase, period.

This is true, but in FiM's case I don't think that would be a benefit. For me it's the power of the characters and their feelings and interactions that make FiM special, and it seems to me like that sort of fluff would be first on the chopping block in most cases. In the comics, the micro-series and Friends Forever managed to avoid this by using generally simple stories and focusing on the characters, though it still didn't always work (Friends Forever #1 :bluh:). I suppose this is just one of those cases where different people want different things from this show.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 2:31 am

Skip all this mushy girly stuff and cut to the pew pew lasers :shepspike:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 2:34 am

Make it like Invader Zim where every 11-minute episode is about 4 minutes of really inventive clever story and worldbuilding and great character riffs and is followed inevitably by 7 minutes of incoherent overblown sprawling space battles
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 2:38 am

They could do 11 minute shorts for minor/secondary chsracters like Cheerilee, Zecora & Trixie just fine most likely. But the Mane six, CMC & Spike need 22 minute eps.


As for emotional impact, AT & Steven are 11-12 minute eps & they still have plenty of emotional impact. So you can be short & still bring the feels.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 2:44 am

SoundMonkey44 wrote:As for emotional impact, AT & Steven are 11-12 minute eps & they still have plenty of emotional impact. So you can be short & still bring the feels.

Yeah, exactly. The kind of stories may be different, but it's still possible to do shorter episodes and have good character moments.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 2:48 am

I think a duo of 11 minute shorts could work for MLP. But again I'd rather they experiment with secondary characters before trying it out with the mane six.
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Postby Discord (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 3:45 am

And 11 minute episode could basically be RD's and Fluts story from "Trade Ya!" in terms of structure/timing. Which was good, and makes me think 11 minutes could work; it'd be interesting if a writer could take a shorter format to its advantage and just write a very simple, impactful story without being tied down by a 3-act structure that force expansion of ideas that don't always need it.

Still, I wouldn't want pony to do so on any regular basis, especially this late in the game.
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 3:52 am

Yeah at this point an 11 minute episode would be more like a one-time gimmick than anything. If S5 is going to actually build on the foundation the finale has pretty much laid out, I'm not sure a simple story like that would fit. I personally prefer they do more episodes like Castle Mane-ia or Trade Ya!, which are essentially 2-3 simple stories but inter-woven into a larger one.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 4:00 am

Weirder things happened to show late in the game.

I guess it goes without saying that I prefer different kinds of cartoons than most of us here (I prefer gags over emotions, etc.). Que sera sera.
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Postby die Fledermaus (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 4:38 am

I just want a Changeling episode, and shorts could make that more possible, so I'm in.
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Postby londonarbuckle (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 4:40 am

I think 11-minutes or shorter lends itself far better to gaggy, gimmicky ideas, like the kind of thing Dexter's Lab used to do. And that really isn't Pony's specialty.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 4:45 am

They could give us 5 minute "Pony shorts" with quick gag cartoons about DJ Pon3 annoying Octavia and such to tide us over during the long wait.
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Postby TheNegaverser (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 4:50 am

shotgunbadger wrote:I just want a Changeling episode, and shorts could make that more possible, so I'm in.

That sounds great! :awesomedash:

I suppose the best thing would be for the show to have the same format as the Netflix reboot of Arrested Development. Those episodes range anywhere from 22-ish to 35-ish minutes. It'll never happen on regular TV, but it would be so perfect. Each episode could be as long (or short) as it needed to be to fit the story. If only... :-I
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 4:54 am

And they'll all take place at the same time and from different ponies' perspectives and will look like a disjointed mess until you see enough of them that you start to see how they all fit together? :-P
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 5:48 am

Did I suggest an Aqua Teen Hunger Force backwards season yet? If not.... :smirk:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 6:08 am

Or at the very least, a backwards episode like Seinfeld did.

If we're talking gimmick episodes, I want to see a anthology episode. Each member of the Main Six tells the same event in their own way in a different style (Twilight's is like a fantasy book, RD a action film, Applejack's is like Sergio Leone, Fluttershy's is a simplistic style, Pinkie's is a 1920s cartoon and Rarity's is a historical drama).

I would love that.
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Postby TheNegaverser (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 7:21 am

Headless Horse wrote:And they'll all take place at the same time and from different ponies' perspectives and will look like a disjointed mess until you see enough of them that you start to see how they all fit together? :-P

I could get on board with that. If it's good enough for the Bluths, it's good enough for the ponies! :v:
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Postby drunkill (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 11:39 am

ROBOT B9 wrote:Or at the very least, a backwards episode like Seinfeld did.

If we're talking gimmick episodes, I want to see a anthology episode. Each member of the Main Six tells the same event in their own way in a different style (Twilight's is like a fantasy book, RD a action film, Applejack's is like Sergio Leone, Fluttershy's is a simplistic style, Pinkie's is a 1920s cartoon and Rarity's is a historical drama).

I would love that.


You mean MMMystery on the Friendship Express? :-P

Yeah, a fully fleshed thing like that could be fun, even without 'styles' just different background things or order of events change on the different perspectives and then it comes clear what had happened at the end when spike says it was totally something else and all the ponies got it worng.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 11:45 am

That's the Rashomon episode the fans have wanted to see since the earliest days, right?

I'm a little skeptical of the idea just because while gimmick concepts are fun to speculate about, they rarely turn into the best episodes. MMMystery is a perfect example, as are Power Ponies and Mare-Do-Well.

For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils works well with its Christmas Carol trope because it's just one part of the story; it's a means to an end, not the result of someone at the writer meeting going " :v: hay guys I know what would be awesome, a Christmas Carol episode".
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 11:51 am

Huh...I thought Power Ponies worked out great. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 11:59 am

I enjoyed it too, but I know a lot of people didn't. :pinkieshrug: And either way it's not excellent enough to justify an assumption of intrinsic value of gimmick episodes, is it? Like, it's hard to find any example of "See, this off-the-wall idea really paid off in spades and became one of the show's undisputed high points, so let's do more like it". It's worked for other shows, but this one isn't really geared for it.

Personally I think Cutie Mark Chronicles is about as close to the Rashomon thing as the show needs to get.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 12:07 pm

Yea, any gimmick will be hit or miss some people will love it, others will hate it, and some just won't care. :pinkieshrug:


For example, I really enjoyed Bats! But some of my friends found it to be one of the weakest eps of the season. Diff strokes & what not

As far as gimmicks go though, I would love to see a "from a perspective of a nobody" episode. Have some random BG pony witness the crazy antics of the mane six or them saving the day from some baddy, the whole episode shown through his/her eyes. Would be with but interesting. Like Cloverfield... But with ponies. :gotcha:


Or back to the 11 minute thing, an 11 minute silent-film type Big Mac ep or 11 minute Vinyl Scratch where everything is communicated by sound/Music could potentially work.
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Postby doodlesplat (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 12:09 pm

Headless Horse wrote:Like, it's hard to find any example of "See, this off-the-wall idea really paid off in spades and became one of the show's undisputed high points, so let's do more like it".
That criteria of "undisputed" is really hard to satisfy when it comes to this show and its fans... otherwise I would suggest their musical episodes as something that really worked out great. On the other hand, if you leave out "undisputed", then suddenly one could even make an argument for Equestria Girls.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 12:40 pm

You know, maybe they could do a silent episode, at least for half of the runtime. Have no words or sounds being made and everything is done via gestures.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 12:49 pm

Do 'Hush' in ponies :v:

But really, please no on 11 minuters, because it just means they burn through ideas faster. A one-time thing? Sure. But having it be consistent will shorten the show's lifespan.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 12:53 pm

Right. That graph of all the cartoons with their longevities—its meaning gets way muddled when you try to stack up half-hour shows against short-format ones.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 12:54 pm

Yeah, I think an 11 minute episode wouldn't work. I think it's too short to come up with a good episode for pony.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 12:55 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:You know, maybe they could do a silent episode, at least for half of the runtime. Have no words or sounds being made and everything is done via gestures.



S5 Villian. The Sound Eater!! :v:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 1:03 pm

I must amend my statement earlier to say that Castle Mane-ia did the haunted-house gimmick pretty fuckin' well, and it's near the top of a whole lot of people's lists.

But that may be the exception that proves the rule, or something. I know that what I love most about it isn't the spookiness tropes, but the great character-driven comedy that just happens to have a new place to play.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 1:33 pm

Honestly I think pretty much all of pony has handled itself pretty well with the content it's shown so far even EQG. I mean yes EQG is mediocre compared to FIM, but for direct to video toy commercial movies it arguably had more effort into it then those Barbie, Bratz & Hot wheels films that get spit out every 4 months it seems. * I can't comment on LEGO since I haven't seen a LEGO DTV since the Bionicle stuff so don't know the quality of those*. Given being in top of the bottom of the barrel may not amount to much in EQGs defense but still better then nothing. :v:


But yeah. Gimmicks like Super Heroes, Bats, Indiana Jones style adventures, DBZ style fights are fine in moderation, as long as they don't over shadow the shows heart and soul, a gimmick here & there is fine, ecspeicslly if it's well executed.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 1:35 pm

Of course. It's easy for writers to go overboard by saying "hey, wouldn't this be cool if..." but it has to fit the overall tone of the show if they want it to work as an episode.
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Postby acksed (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 2:55 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:You know, maybe they could do a silent episode, at least for half of the runtime. Have no words or sounds being made and everything is done via gestures.
SoundMonkey44 wrote:
S5 Villian. The Sound Eater!! :v:

I'd totally watch this! SoundMonkey and B9 writers for next season TIA.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 2:56 pm

acksed wrote:I'd totally watch this! SoundMonkey and B9 writers for next season TIA.


Buffy did this in Season 4 and it was one of the creepiest things ever
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 3:30 pm

acksed wrote:I'd totally watch this! SoundMonkey and B9 writers for next season TIA.


Who's to say I don't already secretly work for Hasbro. :v:

Spoiler: Princess Discord is the season 5 finale! :gotcha:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 3:34 pm

Remember that S6 episode thread in PPPP? Yeah...turns out Hasbro REALLY liked some of those ideas... :evil:
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Postby TheNegaverser (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 3:39 pm

Guess we'll have to start cranking out the "I Believe In SoundMonkey And B9" buttons! :-P
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 4:15 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:You know, maybe they could do a silent episode, at least for half of the runtime. Have no words or sounds being made and everything is done via gestures.


Pinkie would go crazy. :amazing:
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