Offseason General Show Chat

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Re: Offseason General Show Chat

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:48 pm

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:
As with all things, it depends upon how it's approached, and your own personal tastes. And also probably how much Highlander you've watched. True True Friends Until the Very End is the best story on the subject matter that I'm aware of and have read (and it actually deliberately subverts the "woe is me" trope).

The subject matter isn't grimdark in and of itself unless the story is, but even then, grimdark is not a synonym for bad*. And, since it's something that the show will never touch upon, that makes it fertile ground for fics to explore - and they're not wrong for doing so.

Having said that, the official line from DHX/Hasbro is that "Twilight Sparkle won't outlive her friends."

You will note, I hope, that that is not the same thing as saying that Twilight isn't immortal.

---
*After all, without Warhammer 40,000, which is the accidental creator of the term, we wouldn't have Commissar Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!!!


I never said grimdark was bad. Grimdark can be used in really awesome ways. Certain incarnations of Batman, Warhammer of course, certain anime, and so on. Grimdark is just another style. That being said, somethings will never really fit a grimdark style, because it's not just that the pieces don't fit, the pieces are from two different puzzles altogether.

My Little Pony couldn't have a grimdark story, because it just won't fit, unless it is meant to be a parody, or satire. (Like the original Ninja Turtles.) It's just not the place for it. Despite that, it seems a lot of people try to force a grimdark theme on their stories, and it just doesn't work.
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:55 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:Despite that, it seems a lot of people try to force a grimdark theme on their stories, and it just doesn't work.


You mean it doesn't work for you. But no small number of those grimdark stories are quite popular and well-received by no small part of the fandom (Fallout Equestria being our flagship example, but by no means our only one). Don't get me wrong, I don't generally like to inject too much darkness into my MLP stories, or read stories with too much grimdarkness in them, myself. But I wouldn't ever go so far as to claim that it just doesn't work when evidence abounds that, in fact, it works just fine.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:07 pm

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:
You mean it doesn't work for you. But no small number of those grimdark stories are quite popular and well-received by no small part of the fandom (Fallout Equestria being our flagship example, but by no means our only one). Don't get me wrong, I don't generally like to inject too much darkness into my MLP stories, or read stories with too much grimdarkness in them, myself. But I wouldn't ever go so far as to claim that it just doesn't work when evidence abounds that, in fact, it works just fine.


I think I have very fair reason to say it doesn't work overall, not just in my taste. Personal tastes set aside, My Little Pony is not grimdark to begin with, and it would require an entire shift in tone, that would result in it not being My Little Pony anymore. Fallout Equestria is popular, but what makes it special? Why did it need to be a pony grimdark fic, why couldn't it just be a regular grimdark fic? I say it goes back to the same problem that "Just adding ponies doesn't make it better." So I would say popularity has nothing to do with whether it works or not. In order to make it "work" too much would need to be changed that would entirely separate it from the source material. So no, I would not say that it just doesn't work "for me."
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Postby Discord (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:40 pm

One large reason why My Little Pony is a wonderful piece of media because it offers a sweetness and sincerity that is somewhat scarce in popular culture.

I don't see much point in wanting to try to get a really dark fix out of My Little Pony; to make it more like other media geared toward me. If I want Fallout, as the example, why would I not just go play Fallout? Why would I want to see it mixed with something that is so completely opposite and counter to it?

Certainly, the show has proven itself to tackle some mature and even kinda dark subject matter, but it has it's own style in doing so, that's on the lighter side. A plotline about Twilight's immortality really doesn't strike me as a good avenue for the show to go down; it's a bit too depressing, and there are better ways to explore themes of death and/or drifting apart, if the writers really wanted to do that.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:46 pm

Yea, leave the grid mark to the fanfics. The show doesn't need it outside of the occasional darker element on a 2-parter. This is MY LITTLE PONY, not. GAME OF THRONES JR. :-/
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:48 pm

I agree with everyone else here on that front. I love MLP for how sincere it is and how unashamedly heartwarming it is. In the show idea I'm writing, I'm trying to capture that kind of thing while still making it funny.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:55 pm

SoundMonkey44 wrote:Yea, leave the grid mark to the fanfics. The show doesn't need it outside of the occasional darker element on a 2-parter. This is MY LITTLE PONY, not. GAME OF THRONES JR. :-/


Well, I'm saying maybe it shouldn't be applied to fanfics even, because I believe that fanfiction should still fit into the spirit of the show. If it doesn't, you're just writing something using the same names as characters, and changing the names wouldn't make any difference.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:03 pm

Part of me wants to redraw this comic, with Big Macintosh in place of the guy with a fake shark-fin and the other two guys as Applejack and Apple Bloom.

Am I terrible? :-I

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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:06 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
Well, I'm saying maybe it shouldn't be applied to fanfics even, because I believe that fanfiction should still fit into the spirit of the show. If it doesn't, you're just writing something using the same names as characters, and changing the names wouldn't make any difference.



Eh. I'm fine with fanfics covering some darker stuff, but I do agree it's not in the spirit of the show if it goes too far, then again, there kind of why its fanfiction.


As for cannon or actual approved material, I do feel the Reflections arc in the comic came way to close to crossing that line at times, I love Kate and Andy mind you, but I think the less "epic" we get from pony and the more just general "awesome" as well as "heartfelt" "sincere" "funny" etc are better in the long run. But that's just my 2-cents.

@mr big. You're not terrible, I wanna see that now too!!
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:25 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Was that really a funeral? I know they had the casket there but...


You don't know if it was even a pony in there.
:nnngh: :"It could be a beloved goldfish, a pet raccoon ...
:fluttersmith: :"Or some pony's pet pigeon, but they didn't have any pigeon sized caskets so they had to bury the poor dear in a pony's casket."
:saddershy: :"Or maybe it was an entire flock of pigeons that couldn't be buried separately because of some ... unusual circumstances."
:starity: :facehoof: :saddash: :bluh: :skeptical: :yikes:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:38 pm

Hey...that's true. I never even thought of it like that.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:02 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
Well, I'm saying maybe it shouldn't be applied to fanfics even, because I believe that fanfiction should still fit into the spirit of the show. If it doesn't, you're just writing something using the same names as characters, and changing the names wouldn't make any difference.


This is why I have only ever read one Pony fanfic. I want it to stay inthe spirit of the show. Even with fan comics, I only read Twilight's First Day, and Slice Of Pony Life.

:twonk: Both of which should be declared canon!
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:38 am

Discord wrote:I don't see much point in wanting to try to get a really dark fix out of My Little Pony; to make it more like other media geared toward me. If I want Fallout, as the example, why would I not just go play Fallout?


If we're talking strictly the show (I wasn't), I still don't think it could hurt to interject a little bit of bittersweetness. While I certainly like MLP for being positive and upbeat, a little spice in the mixture every now and then helps flesh out the world more. This could be something as simple as, say, a flashback scene with young Applejack with her parents, maybe the day Applebloom was born. The scene itself doesn't have to be sad in any way, but just an acknowledgement that they were around, and now they're not, wouldn't be remiss. I'm with Disney and Don Bluth on this one: you can make something as dark as you like, and as long as you have a happy ending, the kids will be alright.

But in regards to the larger fandom - fics, pics, etc., then perhaps you want Fallout Lite/Equestria Dark rather than full-on Fallout or full-on MLP.

I haven't played Fallout nor read Fallout: Equestria, so I'm not going to pass judgment on it. But I know that if I were the one writing it, I'd try to be blending the two universes together. After all, as much as it'd be set in a postapocalyptic wasteland, it'd be set in a postapocalyptic wasteland where magic is real and friendship overcomes all odds. There'd be plenty of stuff in it not suitable for kids - like horrible mutants, or roving marauders, or Tina Turner - but I'd still try and keep close to the spirit of MLP and Fallout both.

Hmm...now I'm trying to think up what I'd make a postapocalyptic Equestria like...

But then why read fanfiction if it's just going to ape the show so closely?


Don't get me wrong, there are tons of fanfics I know and love that could slide easily into the show itself - En Fuego, Of Two Minds, and Keeping your Hooves on the Ground, for example.

Mod Edit : Removed some inappropriate stuff
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:12 am

Why is there a discussion about grimdark in a place that specifically says "no grimdark"?

Move on.
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:19 am

Hmm...no grimdark...but I think...

Okay, yeah, we can still have this discussion, it just now has to be framed around "stuff the show itself would never include but which the fandom frequently does." Which includes things like angst and raunchy humor, which isn't against the forum's rules, as long as we don't actually write about sex or shipping.

Wait, maybe.

What constitutes writing about sex and/or shipping? Like, acknowledging that it exists and happens without actually discussing sex itself or any particular ship, is that okay? Or no mentioning it at all?

That would make this discussion much harder, which is a shame because, again, it's a good topic. It would pretty much restrict us to just angst and nothing else. Still works, but I don't read much angst so a lot of my potential examples n' such go out the window...

I'm not being intentionally mod-sassy, by the way, it's just that the nuances of this forum are...nuanced. It's difficult to know what is and is not okay under the rules as written. Especially since I can't actually find where grimdark is "specifically" forbidden...it's not in the general forum rules nor even mentioned on the entire first page of this thread...

Again, not being intentionally mod-sassy, just trying to figure out where the line is so that I can stay on the right side of it.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:30 am

Please stop.
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:33 am

Highbrow Dash wrote:Please stop.


Unlike the majority of people here, I haven't been here for very long. Y'all have had literally years to form your community and and learn what does and does not push each others' buttons and, more importantly, the mods' and admins' buttons. I don't have that, so I'm being entirely sincere up there when I'm trying to figure out what is and isn't okay. I don't want to get kicked but without figuring this stuff out, it's going to happen.

I mean, surely it's better for me to ask for clarification than for me to instead just do whatever I like and learn by trial-and-error.

(especially since, again, grimdark isn't "specifically" forbidden. Extreme violence is, but that isn't what grimdark is. I'm not trying to go "Ha! Loophole!", it's just that I didn't know that grimdark is specifically forbidden because I don't know where that rule is, and if I'm missing that one, what other forum rules am I missing?)
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:40 am

The thing to keep in mind is that folks here generally just don't want to talk about stuff like "where the line is" and "how far to push things".

I'm sympathetic to the desire to have that discussion; I'm partly to blame for perpetuating it here, I realize. But the fact is that this place wants to let the show be itself without imagining what it might have been if it were targeted at some other audience or sponsored by some other company or whatever. Its magic rests in the formula that defines it as it is, and if it were something else we wouldn't even be here.
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:48 am

Headless Horse wrote:The thing to keep in mind is that folks here generally just don't want to talk about stuff like "where the line is" and "how far to push things".


By "the line" I mean the forum rules. I want to follow the forum's rules, but evidently they could be clearer. I'm going to assume that, for example, the "no grimdark" thing is in reference to the rule "no discussions about sex nor extreme violence."

But that's not what grimdark is. Grimdark just means a setting or story that would really, really, really suck to live in, but that doesn't necessarily require any violence, let alone extreme violence.

I'm not trying to then say "so ha, it's not actually against the rules so I can discuss it, nya nya nya." If you don't want to talk about it, that's fine, and if we're not allowed to, that's...well, I'll deal with it. But the rule should be clearer so that newbies like myself don't go accidentally breaking it.
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:11 am

It's one of those things where since we have effectively said "no" to things that would be grimdark by the rules we already have in place. Fine, you got me, I didn't specifically write "no grimdark," but the point still stands. I don't want finer discussions of what is and is not grimdark here. Move on.

edit: this is not just for you RDD, it's also targeted at people who should know better.
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:31 am

Okay, so...what is okay to actually discuss around here? And I mean discussion, rather than just commentary? Back and forth, sides popping up, debates, points of interest, argument and counter-argument, citing examples, bringing up evidence...nothing vitriolic, of course, but it seems like I can't ever start one of those here without someone telling me to please stop or that I sound like I'm part of a cult or something. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, I just find it interminably boring if no one ever engages one another.

So far on my list of things not to discuss is shipping/sex, grimdark, feminism, Hasbro's business practices, the fandom and the expansion thereof, angst, immortal Twilight, extreme violence, Nyx, "for or from"...
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:38 am

I can kinda sympathize with RDD's point here. Have the management ever considered a walled-off section of the forum for discussion of "controversial" topics? It'd be nice to be able to say "Please take that discussion to the ________ area" rather than "Don't ever talk about that".
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:42 am

I'd be good with a walled off area to discuss the pros & cons of shipping myself. :v:
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:47 am

SoundMonkey44 wrote:I'd be good with a walled off area to discuss the pros & cons of shipping myself. :v:


Mostly my problem with the anti-shipping trend of this forum is that it is built on the assumption that anyone who ships must be the sort who will start fights over their favorite ship, or that allowing it will necessarily cause people who are prone to fighting for their ship to migrate to this forum and start a shipping war, with the "Zutara" thing from Avatar specifically mentioned to me as being the source. I'm a wee bit offended by the assumption that because I like to ship certain ponies with certain other ponies, I don't have the self-control to be open to other people's preferred ships.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:57 am

We just don't like dealing with unpleasant things here. Either they're things that we in general consider to be unpleasant by their own nature (sexual or violent content, for example) or are unpleasant due to the drama usually generated in discussions about them (this includes shipping and politics). We're more of a hangout zone than a debate club.
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Postby Sobana (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:00 am

The show has done some dark things in the past like the whole dragging Twilight to hell scene from the end of the first episode of Royal Canterlot Wedding. I find the show's appeal is that it is not just cute, but it is cute in a direction we don't expect to see. Like the familiar story of friends throwing a surprise party for their friend only for the friend to think his friends are avoiding him. Pony did that story but took on a more serious, darker tone when you see Pinkie becoming depressed then going insane over it. Pony is not so much grim dark as it is cute dark if you will. The bright colors mask just how dark the tone gets...

Addressing death in a kids show isn't uncommon or outrageous. Disney kills off their parents every chance they can get. Even in their newest movie Frozen they had a scene showing it. I'm sure if they address it in a subtle way it will be fine...
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:07 am

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:
Mostly my problem with the anti-shipping trend of this forum is that it is built on the assumption that anyone who ships must be the sort who will start fights over their favorite ship, or that allowing it will necessarily cause people who are prone to fighting for their ship to migrate to this forum and start a shipping war, with the "Zutara" thing from Avatar specifically mentioned to me as being the source. I'm a wee bit offended by the assumption that because I like to ship certain ponies with certain other ponies, I don't have the self-control to be open to other people's preferred ships.


It's not a "trend," it's been a thing since day one. It's nothing against you personally. It's just the nature of the beast. There's plenty of other places you can talk about it.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:32 am

The no shipping rule is one of the reasons...

:3: besides the fine stable of people...

...that made me call this place my pony home.

I think it comes mostly from terrible experiences with Shipping during the heyday of Harry Potter.

:rant: HARRY AND GINNY MADE SENSE!
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:33 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:We're more of a hangout zone than a debate club.


The thing is that I hang out with friends all the time, but sometimes when I hang out with friends I end up debating things with them. Not all the time - not even most of the time - but often enough. I'm not saying that this place should become a debate club, just that it's getting to be really frustrating constantly running into brick walls whenever I try to do anything other than just see someone's posted something, comment strictly on it, and then wait around with my hands in my pockets whistling Dixie until someone posts something else.

kefkafloyd wrote:It's not a "trend," it's been a thing since day one. It's nothing against you personally.


It doesn't have to be, it's still based on a faulty assumption. In the darkest depths of 4Chan I've never seen an actual shipping war break out over MLP. I don't know why this is, maybe I just missed them, maybe we're just better than the Avatar fandom, whatever, the point is that the forum is still making assumptions about a group of people based on the actions of an entirely different group of people from an entirely different fandom, and I'm stuck in that first group.

It's not even that I want to discuss shipping - if there was a shipping thread than I doubt if I'd ever make more than one or two posts in it - so much as it's something that just isn't taboo elsewhere but is taboo here so now I find myself worried that any given post I make might make mention of it in some way and end up getting me in trouble. It's a bit like going to a city where it's considered immoral to wear the color red, and red doesn't even form a part of your normal wardrobe but you've worn it just often enough that you can't be sure that you won't accidentally put on a red T-shirt or something just out of habit. And then when you go outside you find yourself the subject of scorn. Or accused of sounding like you're part of a cult.

And now extend that basic feeling of "stuff that isn't usually considered taboo is here and I might accidentally break the taboo" over all the stuff I mentioned upthread (grimdark, immortal Twilight, angst, etc.), and you've basically got the general vibe of this entire site, at least to me.

As for why I don't just leave the metaphorical red-hating city - I've made friends here, and I came here for a specific, though private, reason, and won't leave unless I have to. But that doesn't make it any less stifling while I stay.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:38 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:We just don't like dealing with unpleasant things here. Either they're things that we in general consider to be unpleasant by their own nature (sexual or violent content, for example) or are unpleasant due to the drama usually generated in discussions about them (this includes shipping and politics). We're more of a hangout zone than a debate club.


I don't know if that's fair. We debate stuff all the time it seems like.

Just not shipping, or grimdark stuff. We debate, but pretty much keep it in the context of the show.

:gotcha: Unless it's funny.
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Postby Octavia (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:41 am

There are a bazillion other pony sites where people discuss things like shipping and grimdark. If you're really feeling stifled, you can go to any of them and discuss it there. Romance between the main characters and violence beyond typical cartoony stuff isn't in the show, so I don't know why people feel the need to introduce it. I know I'm not alone here in my feelings that the no shipping/grimdark rule is one of the main reasons why I like it so much here.
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Postby Discord (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:44 am

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:Okay, so...what is okay to actually discuss around here? And I mean discussion, rather than just commentary? Back and forth, sides popping up, debates, points of interest, argument and counter-argument, citing examples, bringing up evidence...nothing vitriolic, of course, but it seems like I can't ever start one of those here without someone telling me to please stop or that I sound like I'm part of a cult or something. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, I just find it interminably boring if no one ever engages one another.

So far on my list of things not to discuss is shipping/sex, grimdark, feminism, Hasbro's business practices, the fandom and the expansion thereof, angst, immortal Twilight, extreme violence, Nyx, "for or from"...


We have a huge feminism thread in The Fence Post; discussing that is not off limits if civil. Although you will get backlash if it's views along the lines of "feminism is bad/misguided", we've had civil arguments there before, and the thread has some investment in explanation of views.

Not sure what you're referring to with business practices, but discussing what exactly Hasbro is doing isn't off limits.

This discussion of immortal Twilight, I think, was fine until it broached general grimdark concepts.

On that note:

Sobana wrote:The show has done some dark things in the past like the whole dragging Twilight to hell scene from the end of the first episode of Royal Canterlot Wedding. I find the show's appeal is that it is not just cute, but it is cute in a direction we don't expect to see. Like the familiar story of friends throwing a surprise party for their friend only for the friend to think his friends are avoiding him. Pony did that story but took on a more serious, darker tone when you see Pinkie becoming depressed then going insane over it. Pony is not so much grim dark as it is cute dark if you will. The bright colors mask just how dark the tone gets...

Addressing death in a kids show isn't uncommon or outrageous. Disney kills off their parents every chance they can get. Even in their newest movie Frozen they had a scene showing it. I'm sure if they address it in a subtle way it will be fine...


"Cute Dark" is a weird description I wouldn't use. The show does some pretty heavy moments, but generally it is uplifting.

No, there's nothing wrong with some death in children's media, though it's not necessarily something that fits in with the positivistic pony. That being said, there's a large distance between doing an episode on death and doing an episode on eternal life. Whereas the former is practical in that death is something that can impact even children, eternal life is a depressing high-fantasy concept that doesn't really explore themes in a way that couldn't be done better with other stories.
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:50 am

We have a huge feminism thread in The Fence Post;


That one's more a personal thing after a small altercation with another poster over incidentally bringing up my own approach to women's equality (just stop caring about gender in all things), I'll admit.

Octavia wrote:There are a bazillion other pony sites where people discuss things like shipping and grimdark. If you're really feeling stifled, you can go to any of them and discuss it there. Romance between the main characters and violence beyond typical cartoony stuff isn't in the show, so I don't know why people feel the need to introduce it. I know I'm not alone here in my feelings that the no shipping/grimdark rule is one of the main reasons why I like it so much here.


Again, it's not that I want to discuss it. It's that practically nowhere else is it a taboo subject, so the fact that it's taboo here just leaves me paranoid over the idea that I might accidentally bring it up. I don't want to start a HMS Bonnie Lyre thread, so much as I'm worried that I might in, say, one of the episode discussions, honestly forget the rule and mention that Bon Bon and Lyra look cute together in a given scene and then have to suffer the Wrath of Khan from y'all for bringing it up.

Though on that note I would like to add that I don't understand the idea of "it's not in the show so it shouldn't be introduced into discussion," myself. Maybe it's because I write a lot of fanfics, I dunno, but honestly a whole lot of my enjoyment of MLP stems from the characters and trying to think up new situations they might find themselves in - situations that the show might not ever cover for any number of reasons, including them being outside the normal tone or themes.
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Postby Perpetual Lurker (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:59 am

This show has no problem getting dark when it wants to. Even outside of two-parters, you still have Party of One, Putting your Hoof Down, Lesson Zero, Magic Duel, Somepony to Watch Over Me, For Whom the Sweetie Belle Tolls, and some more I'm sure I've missed.

The difference between darkness and grimdarkness, though, is optimism. In Grimdark, things are bad, they'll always be bad, and there is no hope left. This show hinges on it's optimism more than any other show I've seen. Things can always get better, and there's always hope for the future.

That's why stuff like Fallout Equestria isn't received so well around here. Not because it's dark, because darkness is perfectly fine. But because it's hopeless and bleak. And if there's anything that ponies shouldn't be, it's that.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:01 am

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:It doesn't have to be, it's still based on a faulty assumption. In the darkest depths of 4Chan I've never seen an actual shipping war break out over MLP. I don't know why this is, maybe I just missed them, maybe we're just better than the Avatar fandom, whatever, the point is that the forum is still making assumptions about a group of people based on the actions of an entirely different group of people from an entirely different fandom, and I'm stuck in that first group.


It's not based on faulty assumption, it is based on what people have actually experienced. Yes, there are controversial topics all around the community, they are present. Here is not meant to be the place to talk about that. There are other pony sites that'll allow that, I really don't see why it should be here. The reason I stopped visiting Derpibooru was because of all the controversial stuff that I kept running into, that I didn't want to see. This is why I support Bronibooru and RS exactly as it is. As Fizzbuzz said, it's more hangout than debate club.

To speak for the other side, some people do see that "No controversial content makes us better than everyone else." No, that is not true one bit. However, I don't see any reason to include that, when everything seems fine the way it is. It's just not the place. Just as one wouldn't talk about Fanfiction in One Art Please, RS should not be for controversial matters.

It's not even that I want to discuss shipping - if there was a shipping thread than I doubt if I'd ever make more than one or two posts in it - so much as it's something that just isn't taboo elsewhere but is taboo here so now I find myself worried that any given post I make might make mention of it in some way and end up getting me in trouble. It's a bit like going to a city where it's considered immoral to wear the color red, and red doesn't even form a part of your normal wardrobe but you've worn it just often enough that you can't be sure that you won't accidentally put on a red T-shirt or something just out of habit. And then when you go outside you find yourself the subject of scorn. Or accused of sounding like you're part of a cult.

And now extend that basic feeling of "stuff that isn't usually considered taboo is here and I might accidentally break the taboo" over all the stuff I mentioned upthread (grimdark, immortal Twilight, angst, etc.), and you've basically got the general vibe of this entire site, at least to me.

As for why I don't just leave the metaphorical red-hating city - I've made friends here, and I came here for a specific, though private, reason, and won't leave unless I have to. But that doesn't make it any less stifling while I stay.


I think you're seeing this one way, I believe your "no red shirt" example is somewhat extreme. Please let me address it as another. Countries are widely different. I think it's fair to say what's considered okay in one country, might be taken differently in another. Does that make one country wrong, or one better than the other? No. But those two countries are allowed to act individually, and have their own rules and ideals, including taboos.

For example, compare America and Japan. In America, tipping in restaurants is considered a must. In Japan, tipping is not customary, they do not want it. Slurping a soup is considered rude in parts of America, in Japan, it is considered a sign of enjoying the meal. And so on and so on. You wouldn't critisize the nation for having ways different than your own, would you? It's just the way things are done. And to be honest, with the way you're wording your posts, to me it kind of sounds like the example of a foreigner telling a native that their country isn't run right because it's not the same as others. Now, I'm not saying you're a foreigner here, you are welcome, I'm just trying to make an example of the situation.
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Postby Seven Seas (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:10 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:We're more of a hangout zone than a debate club.

This is a great TRS rule of thumb. I don't think we have anything against debates, per se-- it's just that most of us would rather hang out and shoot the breeze without having to (as you envisioned) pick sides, make arguments, cite evidence, etc. It's worth noting that right now we're in the "Offseason General Show Chat" thread, which is basically for breeze-shooting; more debate-style threads might be better received if posted as their own threads in Gen Pones. Provided, of course, they stay within the content rules and are actually things that folks here enjoy discussing.

Speaking of which, another good rule of thumb is that folks here love discussing the show and other elements of canon, but the further a discussion topic gets from canon-- from the characters as we know them and the Equestria we all fell in love with in the first place-- the less interested people tend to be in talking about it.

I don't mean to say that either of these are universals, or that TRS is a monolith in which everyone has the same opinion on these issues. But these do seem to be the "average" opinions that the community's arrived at after three years of evolution. I should mention I've only been active a few months myself, but this is the impression I get. And you know what, I was confused by a lot of it in the beginning too-- and I admit this place still has tripwires I don't understand-- but just reading old threads and listening to how veteran members feel about certain issues helped me understand and appreciate why this place is the way it is. Careful observation, and a bit of caution if you're worried about getting things wrong, will do more than anything to help you find your niche. :-)
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:18 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:I think you're seeing this one way, I believe your "no red shirt" example is somewhat extreme. Please let me address it as another. Countries are widely different. I think it's fair to say what's considered okay in one country, might be taken differently in another. Does that make one country wrong, or one better than the other? No.


I read this and two words come to mind: North Korea.

You're...talking to the wrong guy here, as I do believe that one culture can be superior to another culture. Which isn't to say that two cultures can't have their own strengths and weaknesses that mean they roughly balance against each other (America/Japan, to use your own example), I don't think there is objectively a MOST SUPERIOR culture, but I do think that there's such a thing as a culture with so few redeeming traits that the world would be better off if it were wiped out and its people assimilated into another culture.

As an extreme example, if tomorrow the US and China tag-teamed North Korea, toppled its government, and began destroying North Korean culture and replacing it with just about anything else (though preferably South Korean), I'd be dancing in the streets unashamedly, as I cannot think of a single reedeeming feature of the militarized, brainwashed, malnourished, racist, ignorant culture that North Korea has developed over the last sixty years.

(Note that I'm not talking about actually killing anyone - just replacing their culture with a new one. As an extended example, that's basically what we did to post-WWII Germany. And yes, a culture wiping out another culture can be a bad thing, too - just, it's not always.)

Not to say that this board is the brony equivalent of North Korea. Just that sometimes the foreigner raises legitimate points that the natives might not themselves think of as legitimate because their culture says that the things they do are okay.

Ugh...I'm gonna get banned for this post, I just know it.
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:31 am

Or you could just drop something when I ask you to drop it.
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Postby Skipper (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:43 am

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:You're...talking to the wrong guy here, as I do believe that one culture can be superior to another culture. Which isn't to say that two cultures can't have their own strengths and weaknesses that mean they roughly balance against each other (America/Japan, to use your own example), I don't think there is objectively a MOST SUPERIOR culture, but I do think that there's such a thing as a culture with so few redeeming traits that the world would be better off if it were wiped out and its people assimilated into another culture.

Wow. Are you actually serious??
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:52 am

Right, then...



DagaYemar, the creator of the "My Little Disney" and other PMVs that get their own dedicated posts on EqD, is actually my roommate. He's waiting for Rainbow Rocks to come out so that he has enough human footage to do both of Disney's recent Muppet movies.

*Whistles*
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