Offseason General Show Chat

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Re: Offseason General Show Chat

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:31 pm

At the very least, each of the Mane Six did have a reason why they wanted to go, even if those reasons (particularly Pinkie Pie's and Applejack's) proved to be not quite so good in the end.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:34 pm

Exactly. It taught the lesson that things might not be as you expected and each of the Main Six had different expectations that weren't fufilled, but ended up having a good time at the end of it anyway.
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Postby Illuminations (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:40 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:At the very least, each of the Mane Six did have a reason why they wanted to go, even if those reasons (particularly Pinkie Pie's and Applejack's) proved to be not quite so good in the end.

Also Rarity's goal, which ended up being especially disastrous. Interesting how Rarity, who was still relatively unknown in the high-class scene back in S1, still managed to directly approach a royal pony like Blueblood and converse with him without much hassle. Nowadays I'm sure that many of the nobles know who Rarity is because of her increasing success in fashion but back during the Gala she was still new to the scene. And despite all that she didn't face any hassles with any royal security or anything like with Sapphire Shore's bodypony.
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Postby Strangest Letter (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:47 pm

Illuminations wrote:Interesting how Rarity, who was still relatively unknown in the high-class scene back in S1, still managed to directly approach a royal pony like Blueblood and converse with him without much hassle. Nowadays I'm sure that many of the nobles know who Rarity is because of her increasing success in fashion but back during the Gala she was still new to the scene. And despite all that she didn't face any hassles with any royal security or anything like with Sapphire Shore's bodypony.

Well, I think at that point even Canterlot high society was aware that Blueblood was a selfish jerk who was unpleasant to be around. Rarity was the only one trying to go for him.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:53 pm

Illuminations wrote:Also Rarity's goal, which ended up being especially disastrous. Interesting how Rarity, who was still relatively unknown in the high-class scene back in S1, still managed to directly approach a royal pony like Blueblood and converse with him without much hassle. Nowadays I'm sure that many of the nobles know who Rarity is because of her increasing success in fashion but back during the Gala she was still new to the scene. And despite all that she didn't face any hassles with any royal security or anything like with Sapphire Shore's bodypony.


Well, she was invited to the gala in the first place. It's not like she approached him in the street :pinkieshrug:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:01 pm

Yeah, she was given a ticket by Celestia so it's obvious that they'd all be expected there.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:56 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Yeah, she was given a ticket by Celestia so it's obvious that they'd all be expected there.

There were a lot of people there, though, and considering their (relative lack of a) reception they didn't exactly come across as guests of honor or anything. I doubt most of the guests expected or even knew them.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:02 pm

Since we were taking about matriarchal societies, and now we're talking about Blueblood, there's something I've always wondered.

How much of the audience's reaction to Blueblood was colored by traditional gender roles? I'm not claiming he was a great guy or anything, but some things, like Rarity expecting him to open the door or pay for the food, can be taken differently if you assume the world in the show doesn't have the same tradition that males should take responsibility for females.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:14 pm

Even in a world where males are subordinate, picking a rose for your own mane has got to be pretty high on the Do Not Do list. :iamapony:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:20 pm

Also, I think Blueblood was meant to be the spoiled rich archetype, which in either society, is still a little unpleasant. :-P
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:22 pm

Bremen wrote:Since we were taking about matriarchal societies, and now we're talking about Blueblood, there's something I've always wondered.

How much of the audience's reaction to Blueblood was colored by traditional gender roles? I'm not claiming he was a great guy or anything, but some things, like Rarity expecting him to open the door or pay for the food, can be taken differently if you assume the world in the show doesn't have the same tradition that males should take responsibility for females.

I've never gotten the feeling that Equestrian gender roles are straight-up reversed from those in typical Western society. After all, the Equestrian military still seems to be all-male, and we have other examples like Rarity's behavior (as you described) which suggest that at least some aspects of our gender roles still apply in that magical cartoon horse world.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:36 pm

Headless Horse wrote:Even in a world where males are subordinate, picking a rose for your own mane has got to be pretty high on the Do Not Do list. :iamapony:


Oh yeah, he's still a spoiled prick, and plenty of what he does is still horrible. I just find it interesting to examine some of his actions in the light of a possibly matriarchal society.

As Fizzbuzz said, the fact that Rarity still expected him to behave in certain ways might mean that in Equestria the stallions are still supposed to be more chivalrous. Or it could mean the writers didn't think about that part and/or figured the target demographic wouldn't get such a subtle subversion of gender roles.
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Postby Sobana (?) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:53 am

Bremen wrote:Since we were taking about matriarchal societies, and now we're talking about Blueblood, there's something I've always wondered.

How much of the audience's reaction to Blueblood was colored by traditional gender roles? I'm not claiming he was a great guy or anything, but some things, like Rarity expecting him to open the door or pay for the food, can be taken differently if you assume the world in the show doesn't have the same tradition that males should take responsibility for females.

If it is reverse doesn't that mean the female has to ask the male out and pay for his dinner and stuff? That might actually be very interesting to see. What if it is customary for Flash Sentry to wait until Twilight asked him out? Who was the dominant gender in Hearts and Hooves day? Royalty may be an exception to the rules. :gotcha:
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:11 am

I wouldnt say Equestria is just a simple flip flop of western society on terms of gender so much as it is a genuine egalitarian one. Neither gender seems to have a substantial dominant role over the other and both are allowed to function and be different without being not equally respected.

I mean yeah Equestria is run by four princesses but males stistibhaave a role in the goverment in military (Shining Armor, the Duke of Maretonia) but females are still present at all levels of leadership (Mayor Mare, Spitfire is captain of a an elite flying team, Harsh Whiny runs Equedtria's largest athletic event) then you have males and females in agriculture, in fashion, in popular culture, and construction.

Courting seems to be largeely less restricted by gender since the Cutie Mark Crusaders thought it was just as normally acceptable for Cheerilee to ask Big Mac out as it would be for any other stallion to ask her out.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:46 am

The Doctor wrote::prettywings: Spike is the real Princess of Friendship.


FIFY. No matter what, everyone is destined to be a princess, period. :vogue:
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Postby Bremen (?) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:52 am

Sobana wrote:If it is reverse doesn't that mean the female has to ask the male out and pay for his dinner and stuff? That might actually be very interesting to see. What if it is customary for Flash Sentry to wait until Twilight asked him out? Who was the dominant gender in Hearts and Hooves day? Royalty may be an exception to the rules. :gotcha:


I remember when Daring Don't came out some people tried to argue this on the basis that she joked about proposing to Ahuizotl. Though personally I thought this was assigning far too much credit to what was obviously a joke.

Personally I doubt we'll ever see any evidence that mares are supposed to ask out stallions or pay for the dinners, since it would probably be too subtle a subversion for the target demographic to handle. At most, it will be treated as a gender neutral subject.

DerFurShur wrote:I wouldnt say Equestria is just a simple flip flop of western society on terms of gender so much as it is a genuine egalitarian one. Neither gender seems to have a substantial dominant role over the other and both are allowed to function and be different without being not equally respected.

I mean yeah Equestria is run by four princesses but males stistibhaave a role in the goverment in military (Shining Armor, the Duke of Maretonia) but females are still present at all levels of leadership (Mayor Mare, Spitfire is captain of a an elite flying team, Harsh Whiny runs Equedtria's largest athletic event) then you have males and females in agriculture, in fashion, in popular culture, and construction.

Courting seems to be largeely less restricted by gender since the Cutie Mark Crusaders thought it was just as normally acceptable for Cheerilee to ask Big Mac out as it would be for any other stallion to ask her out.


Eh, Big Mac is older (and stronger, and possibly even smarter) than Applejack, but AJ runs the farm. And in Winter Wrap Up the leaders were all mares while stallions were pushing carts. Realistically, this is because the show is intended for girls and the main characters are mostly female (not to mention quite likely a lack of male voice actors, which doesn't matter if they're in background roles*), but if you were to just look at the portrayal in the show you could easily argue there's some gender bias at work, even if it's to a lesser extent than the modern real world.

*Which may be one reason why it's been improving as the show goes on.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:11 pm

Bremen wrote:Eh, Big Mac is older (and stronger, and possibly even smarter) than Applejack, but AJ runs the farm. And in Winter Wrap Up the leaders were all mares while stallions were pushing carts. Realistically, this is because the show is intended for girls and the main characters are mostly female (not to mention quite likely a lack of male voice actors, which doesn't matter if they're in background roles*), but if you were to just look at the portrayal in the show you could easily argue there's some gender bias at work, even if it's to a lesser extent than the modern real world.

*Which may be one reason why it's been improving as the show goes on.

In WWU's case, keep in mind that two of the leaders were Applejack and Rainbow Dash. This was most likely done since it's more interesting to use actual characters instead of random background ponies (so long as they'd fit into a given situation, which those two definitely do) rather than as a deliberate statement about Equestrian gender roles. In fact, I imagine Fluttershy was going to be the leader of the animal team up until everyone making the episode remembered that she hates those sorts of attention-getting public roles, so they had to give that armband to some background pony instead.

As for Big Mac's case, again I think that has more to do with the characters involved than their genders. Compared to the bold and proud Applejack, Big Mac is rather quiet and somewhat meek, not the sort of person who would thrust himself into a leadership role. Applejack most certainly is, though, so I imagine that's why she took charge after their parents died.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:33 am

There's definitely males of high influence, too - Fancy Pants, Trenderhoof, and Hoity Toity all leap to mind. The big thing is that our main PoV characters, save Spike, are all girls, and with the Princesses on top of that, and relationships being what they are :pinkieshrug:

Equestria can be seen through many lenses which is part of the fun.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:37 am

Fancy Pants needs to come back. I originally thought he would end up being a jerk, and then by the end of the episode he turned out to be genuinely good guy, why hasn't he come back up?
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:23 am

Dexanth wrote:There's definitely males of high influence, too - Fancy Pants, Trenderhoof, and Hoity Toity all leap to mind.


Not to mention Star Swirl, who seems to have been responsible for a whole heap of important stuff in Equestrian history (if we're taking the comics/books into account).
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:26 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:Fancy Pants needs to come back. I originally thought he would end up being a jerk, and then by the end of the episode he turned out to be genuinely good guy, why hasn't he come back up?


I'd like to see him return as well...maybe if they make a trip to Canterlot again?
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:44 am

From imgur -
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look under the "The Americas" section

Image :"Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle..."
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:55 am

That image makes me want to see a Kelpie sometime in MLP. It would probably look awesome. :allears:

Also, it's interesting to count how many of those creatures have been in the show proper.
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Postby Sobana (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:06 pm

While I don't mind mythical creatures I prefer when they use their own original creatures like Changelings and Parasprites. Everyone seems to use the same mythical creatures.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:08 pm

One of the issues of the comics (MLP:FiM #23, the one starring all the pets) featured a kelpie as the villain there.
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Postby Perrydotto (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:02 pm

Sobana wrote:Everyone seems to use the same mythical creatures.


I wouldn't call creatures like ahuizotl or windigos overused, exactly. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:12 pm

Yeah, I was surprised at the show using Ahuizotl myself. Maybe we'll see Quetzalcoatl sometime. :allears:
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Postby Sobana (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:19 pm

Perrydotto wrote:
I wouldn't call creatures like ahuizotl or windigos overused, exactly. :pinkieshrug:

Minotaor, hydra, dragon and chimera. Tho ursa was a nice touch.
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Postby Seven Seas (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:33 pm

At a recent Greek vase exhibit, I realized that My Little Pony has given me an encyclopedic knowledge of mythical creatures, and I am unable to tell anyone where it came from. :gotcha:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:39 pm

As a fan of Greek Mythology, it's always fun guessing which creature will appear next. I want the Mares of Diomedes to make an appearance. :gotcha:
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:02 pm

Sobana wrote:While I don't mind mythical creatures I prefer when they use their own original creatures like Changelings and Parasprites. Everyone seems to use the same mythical creatures.

Well, changelings aren't strictly original. :wink:
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:12 pm

Yeah I was about to say that changeling are from mythology too and that they're known for replacing children, usually royal children, with their own to cause either mischief or implant one of their own ranks within human society.

In a way Chrysalis' plan in A Canterlot Wedding matches up quite well.

ironically enough of we ever did have an episode abi it Cadance and Shining Armor having a kid, the changelings would be the perfect enemies for it.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:19 pm

Huh, I never knew that Changelings were a thing before MLP. Huh. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Seven Seas (?) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:32 pm

Though to be fair, the MLP changelings don't have much to do with the changelings of legend, aside from the name and the general concept that they replace people. Most of the details in A Canterlot Wedding are totally original, as is the whole changeling civilization and M.O. they hint at.

Same with wendigos/windigos. The MLP windigos are pretty neato, but they're very different from the legendary wendigos aside from the fact that both are associated with cold.

Wendigos were also a kind of monster in Hexen, heck yeah Image
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:11 am

ROBOT B9 wrote:Huh, I never knew that Changelings were a thing before MLP. Huh. :pinkieshrug:


I thought a changeling was that race of shapeshifters in Star Wars Episode II at first. :v:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:29 am

Every generation and every genre reinvents the shapeshifter/changeling.
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Postby Sobana (?) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:39 am

SlateSlabrock wrote:Well, changelings aren't strictly original. :wink:

I think I heard enough heresy from you for one day. :-/
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:05 am

:evil: :"You fool! We're changlings; we reinvent ourselves!"
:allright: :"The more changlings change, the more they remain the same!"
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Postby Perrydotto (?) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:28 am

Sobana wrote:I think I heard enough heresy from you for one day. :-/


Something doesn't need to be totally original to be awesome.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:29 am

:twiright: everyone knows Chrysalis was a second rate Changeling.


Best Changelings
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