Offseason General Show Chat

here a forum about pony (General Pony Talk)

Moderators: Perrydotto, Dexanth, Venusy, Wayoshi

Re: Offseason General Show Chat

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:45 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:But would Flim and Flam be the kind of ponies to do that? :pinkieshrug:


With a change of heart at the end of the episode, they would have. Which is how I felt it should have gone.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:50 pm

Yeah, it's not as if Flim and Flam are incapable of having a soft side. FF #9 (featuring them and Granny Smith) explored that pretty well.
Image
Fizzbuzz
User avatar
Stare Masters
Joined: Mar 02, 2013
Location: TN
Gender: Male

Postby DerFurShur (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:55 pm

Eh I liked that Flim and Flam stuck to their "for the money" ways. Not every antagonist needs a redemption.

Plus everyone was expecting them to be the key giver so I commend the episode for not being even more predictaable than it already was.
Last edited by DerFurShur on Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
DerFurShur
User avatar
Joined: Nov 01, 2013
Location: Tennessee, US

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:56 pm

I guess that makes sense. Maybe they'll get redemption in a later episode. :pinkieshrug:
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby DerFurShur (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:00 pm

Honestly I hole not. The fact that they made the SSCS6K and know the basics of germ theory shows they have actual talent.

And how do they use their talents?

:flimflam: TO MAKE MONEY OF COURSE

And sing songs.
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
DerFurShur
User avatar
Joined: Nov 01, 2013
Location: Tennessee, US

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:01 pm

I don't think they really need to stop being persuasive salesmen pitching products of potentially morally dubious quality. It'd just be nice to see something other than that of them, which is something I thought that issue of the comics did well.
Image
Fizzbuzz
User avatar
Stare Masters
Joined: Mar 02, 2013
Location: TN
Gender: Male

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:24 pm

Yeah, they wouldn't have to "turn good" because they weren't evil to begin with. They're not like Swindle from Transformers who will actively con people. I mean in their first episode, they showed off a product that worked and preformed well.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby Bremen (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:31 pm

Flim and Flam are foils to Applejack just like Trixie is a foil to Twilight, and who would want a humble Trixie? But I agree, Flim and Flam could have a non-antagonist role without having to renounce their underhanded(underhoofed?) ways; they're not really evil.
Bremen
User avatar
Joined: Oct 09, 2011
Gender: Male

Postby DerFurShur (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:43 pm

But they're not good either. They may have offered legitimate cider but when push came to shove th eery threw quality control out the window and then when the won Sweet Apple Acres from the Apple Family, essentially making them homeless, they laughed about it.

Then in their next appearance thry weren't even offering a lelegitimate product.

They're at best amoral and at worst genuinely underhanded. You can have Trixie be her boastful prideful self and have her be reformed but I just don't see that working with Flim and Flam without taking away the part of them that made them interesting.
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
DerFurShur
User avatar
Joined: Nov 01, 2013
Location: Tennessee, US

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:52 pm

Bremen wrote:Flim and Flam are foils to Applejack just like Trixie is a foil to Twilight, and who would want a humble Trixie? But I agree, Flim and Flam could have a non-antagonist role without having to renounce their underhanded(underhoofed?) ways; they're not really evil.


Right, and Trixie wasn't really evil either. (Save for the amulet part.) She was just a bit of a jerk/bully, not someone wanting to take over the world.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby DerFurShur (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:59 pm

Kicking a family out and knowingly taking people's money when you know your product is snake oil is pretty evil, or at the very least not good :pinkieshrug:
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
DerFurShur
User avatar
Joined: Nov 01, 2013
Location: Tennessee, US

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:03 pm

Yeah, they definitely should remain antagonists for the time being...if they even make a return at all. Maybe they could run a carnival? It's the next logical step... :pinkieshrug:
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:05 pm

DerFurShur wrote:Kicking a family out and knowingly taking people's money when you know your product is snake oil is pretty evil, or at the very least not good :pinkieshrug:


Kicking a family out on a bet that Applejack willingly accepted. It was part of the deal. They wanted to farm to harvest apples for their machine, they made a deal that was accepted, and they won fair and square, although they skipped out on quality to win, that wasn't cheating.

Also, people did that all the time with these "miracle cures". Coca-Cola was even among them. They were just trying to make money. Was it right? No. But they aren't villains of the shows, just jerks.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby DerFurShur (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:07 pm

Really if they do bring them back (for a third time) it doesn't need to be at Ponyville since they were in essenessence kicked out at the end of their first episode and their second doesn't make clear where they were selling the tonic but then they had to leave there too.

If Applejack and whoever go somewhere else and they run into them there then that's fine I guess, but both times they've been shown they've been clearly out to make a quick buck, which is fine but let's not try and pretend they'really 'misunderstood' or whatever. Nothing wrong with antagonists being... you know antagonistic.
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
DerFurShur
User avatar
Joined: Nov 01, 2013
Location: Tennessee, US

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:12 pm

I'm not saying they're "misunderstood", I'm just saying they're not flat out evil. Chrysalis was flat out evil. Flim and Flam are 2 jerks who are just looking to make money fast, that doesn't make them criminal masterminds or antagonists. In fact, they aren't even antagonists. Antagonists oppose something that the protagonist is doing. Flim and Flam are just out and about trying to sell. They're not good characters, but hardly an antagonistic force.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby DerFurShur (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:16 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
Kicking a family out on a bet that Applejack willingly accepted. It was part of the deal. They wanted to farm to harvest apples for their machine, they made a deal that was accepted, and they won fair and square, although they skipped out on quality to win, that wasn't cheating.

Also, people did that all the time with these "miracle cures". Coca-Cola was even among them. They were just trying to make money. Was it right? No. But they aren't villains of the shows, just jerks.


They come in with a better way of cider but need the Apple Family's appled to make it. Do they make a genuinely good offer? Nah 75-25 take it or leave it. When the Apples don't accept because it's a bad deal they manipulate the events to make a contest they know they can win. When they do win (by cutting out their quality control they were so boastful about before) do they then give Apples a chance to change their minds and see how dumb it is for them to not work together? Nah take their house along with the apples and then laugh about it before they even leave.

And selling a product you know is bunk is still lying, no way you can argue that.

Now are Flim and Flam villains like Tirek or Chrysalis? No duh, but being less evil than Satan or Hitler doesn't make yoy automatically "not bad". They were still the antagonists in both episodes they were in and it's been established that they clearly know what they're doing and what they're doing is making money. Sometimes their pproduct is legit, sometimes they'll cut corners to win, and sometimes they'll manipulate others into eit her buying their products. So they're still pretty antagonistic.
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
DerFurShur
User avatar
Joined: Nov 01, 2013
Location: Tennessee, US

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:26 pm

DerFurShur wrote:
Th eery come in with a a better way of cider bit need the Apple Family's appled to make it. Do they make a genuinely good offer? Nah 75-25 take it or leave it. When the Apples don't accept because it's a bad deal they manipulaye the events to make a contest they know th eery can win. When they do win (but cutting out their quality control they were so boastful about before) do they then give Apples a chance to see how dumb it is for them to not work together? Nah take their house along with the apples and then laugh about it before they even leave.

And selling a produproduct you know is bunk is still lying, no way you can argue that.

Now are Flim and Flam villains like Tirek or Chrysalis? No duh, but being less evil than Satan or Hitler doesn't make to u automatically "not bad". They were still the antagonists of both episodes they were in and it's been established that they clearly know what they're doing and what they're doing is making money. Sometimes their pproduct is legit, sometimes they'll cut corners to win, and sometimes they'll manipulate others into eit her buying their products. So they're still pretty antagonistic.


That's competition. That's hardly evil, especially with the modern day business world. Rockefeller had lower prices than any competitors because he could. He took over his competitors because he wanted to eliminate competition. That's just business. Getting into the ethics of that goes far beyond a children's cartoon.

As for what they were lying about the product, it could be argued that it did have a placebo effect and therefor was good. I mean, Granny Smith was feeling better, was she not? But again, this is the kind of thing that goes far beyond a cartoon.

But as it stands, I just feel Flim and Flam weren't antagonists, but buisnessmen looking to make money in whatever way possible.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:31 pm

But didn't Rockerfeller create a monopoly with the oil companies and FDR had to untangle the mess? I might be remembering this wrong... :pinkieshrug:
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:37 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:But didn't Rockerfeller create a monopoly with the oil companies and FDR had to untangle the mess? I might be remembering this wrong... :pinkieshrug:


But at the same time he created tons of jobs, and redefined the entire industry. Gasoline was a waste product until Rockefeller realized its potential.

All I'm saying is business practices are not simply "right and wrong" and when Flim and Flam had moments where they were in the right and in the wrong I believe. But I want to end this now for multiple reasons, it's getting too ethically deep for a cartoon, and on top of that I don't want to go on for my personal reasons.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:34 pm

Regardless of any of that, I'd rather get new characters. I don't really want to see Trixie, Gilda or Flim&Flam again, they're cool but I like to see them come up with new stuff instead of reusing old characters and concepts until they become boring :pinkieshrug:

That's kind of my whole problem with the new Discord :-I
Image
Highbrow Dash
User avatar
but why would you post such a thing??
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Oct 15, 2011
Location: Spain
Gender: Male

Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:41 pm

I need a drink....anypony have any extra zap apple cider on em!? :chug:
Image
Sunset Shimmer is BEST Hu-Mane!!
SoundMonkey44
User avatar
Ain't Got No Sense, No Sense At All.
Joined: Feb 04, 2013
Location: The South West
Gender: Male

Postby doodlesplat (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:43 pm

This show splashes around on the surface of the 'ethics' pond most of the time, but that pond is substantially deeper than one would usually expect of a show aimed at MLP's demographic. For example, in its series premiere, a character had chosen to banish their sibling for the greater good of a kingdom, and this was deemed significant enough to be explored a few seasons later. A deep discussion about such situations might be beyond the level of the target audience for sure, but that shouldn't necessarily be a reason for others to not discuss it. Particularly since it seems the show is indeed occasionally rich enough to support such discussions.
:flutterunsmith:
doodlesplat
User avatar
Joined: Jan 23, 2013

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:51 pm

Glad to see you're back, SoundMonkey! :)

Anyway, I too enjoy the fact that we're able to have these sorts of interesting discussions about the show and charcterisations. It shows the effort put into it and is truly something remarkable for a show like this. :allears:
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:59 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Glad to see you're back, SoundMonkey! :)

Anyway, I too enjoy the fact that we're able to have these sorts of interesting discussions about the show and charcterisations. It shows the effort put into it and is truly something remarkable for a show like this. :allears:



Thanks, I really missed you guys! :cry: :hug:


Anywho.... On the topic the rest were discussing.


I like characters coming back, I personally hate one shot chars. I'm the horrible person who always gets interested in all the characters in the ridiculous fictional worlds I endulge in. So yea, I can't lie, I wanna see More Babs, Coco, Suri, Gilda, Little Strong Heart, Trixie. Etc...now I realize Gilda & Strong heart probably won't ever happen, but I can dream, XD.

Also more Spitifre & Fleetfoot in S5 please! :-D
Image
Sunset Shimmer is BEST Hu-Mane!!
SoundMonkey44
User avatar
Ain't Got No Sense, No Sense At All.
Joined: Feb 04, 2013
Location: The South West
Gender: Male

Postby Master_Twig (?) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:41 pm

SoundMonkey44 wrote:Also more Spitifre & Fleetfoot in S5 please!



Definitely agree to this. Rainbow Dash dominated Wonderbolts academy and aced the entrance exam into the reserves. If this story arc doesn't move forward it would be really disappointing and rather glaring.

I really think that if the show doesn't start to explore its secondary characters more it will start to get really stale. Look at the Simpsons, (only in the 90s though). Springfield was a town full of interesting and fun characters. No reason that Ponyville can't be the same.
Master_Twig
User avatar
Hey look, a bee.
Joined: Feb 18, 2011

Postby Frith (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:07 am

The characters I want to see again in the show are Coco, Babs and especially Iron Will.

I don't want to see Trixie and Flim & Flam again in the show. I just don't like those characters.
Frith
User avatar
Princesses of Soul
Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Gender: Male

Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:14 am

I'm fine with a balance. Season 4 brought back Flim and Flam, Daring Do, The Wonderbolts, etc. But it still gave us Coco Pommel, The Maneiac, Maud Pie, Seabreeze, Cheese Sandwich etc.

There's no rule to how many times a character can comeback or a limit to the number of returns. As long as their role in the episode is good then that's all that should matter. I now i made the emphasis on a potential third Film Flam appearance but that's only because I don't see them doing anything hat much different from the last two times they showed up.

Also I'm really looking forward to Maud and Coco's return in S5
Last edited by DerFurShur on Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
DerFurShur
User avatar
Joined: Nov 01, 2013
Location: Tennessee, US

Postby Bremen (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:37 am

I'd like to see Maud again, maybe Gilda. Trixie for a third time would be fun as well, I think she's always entertaining.

I'll second that I don't care if a character is brought back many times as long as their appearances don't get formulaic.
Bremen
User avatar
Joined: Oct 09, 2011
Gender: Male

Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:33 am

I wouldn't mind seeing Maud again. I'd also like to see some more with the ponies from other lands, like the Saddle Arabians. Also Cranky Doodles.
Image You can't deny the prize, it may never fulfill you.
PonyHag714
User avatar
Now let's go round again!
Joined: Mar 18, 2013
Location: Oromareocto, Canterda
Gender: Male

Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:50 am

Frith wrote:The characters I want to see again in the show are Coco, Babs and especially Iron Will.

I don't want to see Trixie and Flim & Flam again in the show. I just don't like those characters.


Fliim & Flam are basically the Apple Family's Diamond Tiara & Silver Spoon though, so them popping up at least once every other season makes sense.


Trixie, I like the way the comics do her better, but I'd be ok if she popped back up in the show .

I'm also curious weather or not Suri will join CoCo in the season 5 return. It would be hillarious to see Suri as CoCos assistant as punishment for years of stealing other ponies designs. :gotcha:
Image
Sunset Shimmer is BEST Hu-Mane!!
SoundMonkey44
User avatar
Ain't Got No Sense, No Sense At All.
Joined: Feb 04, 2013
Location: The South West
Gender: Male

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:46 am

I wonder how Prince Blueblood's doing.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:23 am

You know, when was the last time we saw him? Sweet and Elite?
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:43 am

Yeah, but he didn't even have any lines. We haven't heard anything of him since Best Night Ever, I don't believe he's even had any roles in the comics.
ShieldedDiamond
User avatar
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Dec 13, 2013

Postby Marioland1 (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:51 am

Blueblood is in the card game as a Troublemaker, so he's not entirely forgotten. Enterplay remembers him at the least.
ImageImage
Marioland1
User avatar
Trouble in Horse Town
Joined: Jun 30, 2014
Location: Behind Minecraft_B5's TTT Control Panel (and autoslay system)
Gender: Male

Postby Snow Drift (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:28 am

He was in the VIP box at the equestria games
ImageImageImageImage
Snow Drift
User avatar
The Most Humblest of Alicorns
The Great and Powerful Trixsters
Joined: Dec 01, 2012
Location: Alaska
Gender: Male

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:32 am

Right...weren't the Saddle Arabia (a location I'd really like to see in the future) ponies there as well?
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:49 am

So I caught a few minutes of The Incredibles tonight. How is it that in all the times I've seen the Shining/Cadance "wife throw" mentioned I've never heard any reference to Pixar originating it? Seriously, I'm amazed its never come up!
PaulloDEC
User avatar
Gah!
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
Location: Queensland, Australia
Gender: Male

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:55 am

...There was a scene with a wife throw in The Incredibles? I don't remember that. :pinkieshrug:
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:06 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:...There was a scene with a wife throw in The Incredibles? I don't remember that. :pinkieshrug:


I know, right?

The villain has kidnapped the couple's baby and is flying away with it. Neither the husband nor the wife can fly, and the husband doesn't want to throw an object at the villain in case he hits the baby. So the wife commands him to throw her instead, which he does, in almost exactly the same way as Shining does. Video link here: http://youtu.be/A7hNdJN8Lb0?t=1m53s

The usage in MLP pretty much has to be an homage, right?
PaulloDEC
User avatar
Gah!
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
Location: Queensland, Australia
Gender: Male

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:10 pm

Hmmm, it could potentially be one...interesting. :ponder:
:plonk: Image :)
ROBOT B9
User avatar
Round and round and round she goes, where she'll stop, nobody knows :pinkietoot:
Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Albir, Spain
Gender: Male

Previous Next

Return to Ponies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest