S04E25-26: Twilight's Kingdom

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Re: S04E25-26: Twilight's Kingdom

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:57 pm

I'm surprised to see that it was still here, actually. :pinkieshrug:
:plonk: Image :)
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:18 pm

Amethyst_Gem wrote:Tirek with cutesie doll face... :starity: :vomitpony: :hiiiii: :sweetielarm: :amazing: :eep:
Discord looks comparatively dignified :excellent:



Rule 63: Not really doing Tirek any favors. :v:


e: YES! YES! End the thread for this glorious episode with my crummy comment!
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Postby acksed (?) » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:46 pm

Amethyst_Gem wrote:Villain Duckfaces o3o
Image
Tirek with cutesie doll face... :starity: :vomitpony: :hiiiii: :sweetielarm: :amazing: :eep:
Discord looks comparatively dignified

:applejargh: DIIISCOOORD!

:excellent: Oopsie.

:-I :-D :yay: That's our Discord! *sitcom laughter*

e: Don't we still need a Round Stable? I offer myself up for the sacrifice if so.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:53 pm

:anticipation: I would also like in on an eventual RT for this.
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Postby Amethyst_Gem (?) » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:40 am

Wayoshi wrote:This thread should have been moved awhile ago. :rainbert: :v:

You're welcome! :gotcha:
The Doctor wrote: :anticipation: I would also like in on an eventual RT for this.

I would love to get involved also... though um, I have no idea about the qualifications for such a role... :fluttersmith:
How is it done anyway, do you get together on irc and save then edit a chat transcript? :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:16 am

Actually I'm curious about that myself.

Cause I might one day like to join in on one of these.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:20 am

The general qualifications are "can type in complete sentences" and "has interesting opinions to share."
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Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:22 am

I can do at least one of those things.
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Postby Skipper (?) » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:08 am

I would like to RT once. Haven't done it before, and this is more or less the last chance in a long time...

Not that I would have much interesting to say though.



[e] I see there's already quite some interest from qualified posters. Never mind then!
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Postby acksed (?) » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:01 pm

Amethyst_Gem wrote:You're welcome! :gotcha:

I would love to get involved also... though um, I have no idea about the qualifications for such a role... :fluttersmith:
How is it done anyway, do you get together on irc and save then edit a chat transcript? :pinkieshrug:

I got a PM with a link to a Googledocs document.
Skipper wrote:[e] I see there's already quite some interest from qualified posters. Never mind then!
I only got in on the RT in the last two or so eps, and was not chased out of town. :amazing: Give it a try.
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Postby Amethyst_Gem (?) » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:56 am

My internet's been done for a time, but I'm still up for getting involved. Provided I'm not at work or asleep at the time... :gotcha:
I'm most likely to speak about G1 vibes the finale gives though. :v:
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Postby doodlesplat (?) » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:45 am

Does Twilight's new castle operate similarly to the Crystal Empire castle? Was that a test firing of the superweapon at the end of the episode? Are Equestria's defensive capabilities becoming overpowered? :-I
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:51 am

doodlesplat wrote:Does Twilight's new castle operate similarly to the Crystal Empire castle? Was that a test firing of the superweapon at the end of the episode? Are Equestria's defensive capabilities becoming overpowered? :-I

The Princesses understand that there's no problem you can't solve with more Tesla coils. :twience:
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Postby Ransom (?) » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:45 am

doodlesplat wrote:Does Twilight's new castle operate similarly to the Crystal Empire castle? Was that a test firing of the superweapon at the end of the episode? Are Equestria's defensive capabilities becoming overpowered? :-I

What happens when the Crystal Empire chaffs at being seen as subservient to its southern neighbor and declares war? Can the Crystal Heart stand up to the powers of the Sun, Moon and the Rainbow Friendship beam? Who will Discord side with?

In all seriousness, the forces of Darkness have their work cut out for them. Better find a way to weaponize a dark rainbow. That or find the Smooze, it ate the Rainbow of Light in G1. Changlings are still a threat though, do to the ability to infiltrate (am I already putting to much thought into this?).
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Postby diribigal (?) » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:20 pm

I finally saw this a week or two ago, and the final episode reminded me of Dragonball Z. In a barren wasteland, two characters with the magical power to tear shit up go at it with giant laser beams. It was all right, I guess, but it didn't feel like pony.
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Postby Skipper (?) » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:29 am

Sorry for bumping this, but I noticed there still hasn't been a Round Table for these two episodes.

What happened?
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:05 am

The front page is dead, long live the front page.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:24 am

kefkafloyd wrote:The front page is dead, long live the front page.


Seriously? That's too bad :fluttersmith:
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Postby Seven Seas (?) » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:22 am

kefkafloyd wrote:The front page is dead, long live the front page.

fucked up if true :fluttersmith:

(Is this true, Kefka? If so, wow, that's depressing. I've been following the front page religiously almost since Day 1-- years before I started posting. End of an era.)
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:22 am

Welcome to Week Twenty-Two of Let's Re-Watch, where a random episode from the pony pantheon is chosen to be the episode of the week!

The basics :
1. Threads will go up on Thursdays! Re-watch day is Saturday. You can obviously join in sooner or later, but the first two days are more for reminiscing, while Saturday-Wednesday is for fresh eyes! Sometimes I put this up early on Friday cause it's still Thursday as far as I'm concerned. The first person to quote this line gets to brag about noticing it. Three four five weeks and nobody has noticed, I need something to give it a little bit more flair.
2. Each week is a random episode. All episodes are now fair game, except repeats!
3. This is fun, and totally random - I literally roll the episode moments before making the thread. Two-parters are combined so technically have a double chance of being chosen but hey! More fun!
4. :dwi:

In this episode, Princess Celestia unleashes a complicated scheme to get Twilight her own castle

Week Twenty-Two is

Twilight's Kingdom!

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Twilight's Kingdom - Part 1 is the twenty-fifth episode of the fourth season of My Little Pony Friendship is Magic and the ninetieth episode overall. It is the first part of a two-part season finale.
In this episode, Twilight Sparkle struggles with her sense of purpose as a princess when Celestia chooses Discord to help track down a new villain.


Oh wait, Trixie got in the way of the intended image

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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:48 am

:party: Lets start with some controversy!


This episode is basically the Pony version of a Star Wars prequel. A nonsensical plot, highlighted by a flashy action sequence.

Nothing makes sense in this story.

Why can't Celestia and Luna just get rid of Tirek like they did before? No reason other than they need to be kidnapped again to make way for Twilight to save the day.

Why can't she tell her friends? No reason, we need to clear 5 minutes for the Tirek fight. Can't have them getting in the way.

Have Celestia, Luna and Cadance have the big fight with Tirek, buying time for Twilight to figure out the box. Have the other 5 help to hide Twilight from Tirek. Heck, have the big action sequence after the box is opened and let the other 5 do something. Do something with the rest of the cast rather than nonsensically brush them aside.

Where episodes like "Friendship is Magic" and "Return of Harmony" showed why Twilight needs her friends, and the "magic" of friendship, all this episode did was show that the Princess of Friendship doesn't need friends. She needs 5 fuses for the magic friendship canon, and all they need to do is stand there.

Episodes like MMC show why she is a great leader, and worthy of being a princess, this episode she's chosen for no reason except "Tirek might not know about you".

Really the only thing I like about this story is Discord's arc. It's the only thing that's grown on me in the episode.

:gonkity: And Twilight's castle is gaudy as hell and totally ruins the entire aesthetic of the town.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:27 am

It was certainly an epic way to wrap up the season. I thought Twilight and Tirek's battle was great action, but I hate the that the library was lost. I guess we'll see how that's addressed in the upcoming season.

"You'll Play Your Part" and "Let The Rainbow Remind You" were good songs. I liked how the five key characters had cameos during LTRRY. And the shot of the mane cast at the end was good.

I sort of liked Celestia's bad dream--or vision--scene because we got a bit of a look at her life outside her royal duties.

And Tirek was a great hardcore villain.
:speakest: The fun has been doubled!
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Postby Discord (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:40 am

As I rather love this episode, especially everything it does with the idea of princess, I'll defend it.

Why can't Celestia and Luna just get rid of Tirek like they did before? No reason other than they need to be kidnapped again to make way for Twilight to save the day.


Same reason why they couldn't deal with Discord, Chystalis, or Sombra. They're not as strong as they used to be and they're not connected to the elements anymore. It's also implied that they got Tirek in a weakened state, whereas here he's much stronger.

Why can't she tell her friends? No reason, we need to clear 5 minutes for the Tirek fight. Can't have them getting in the way.


Trying to keep it on the hush-hush makes some sense, though her friends could have known. I don't see it as a big plot-hole however.

Have Celestia, Luna and Cadance have the big fight with Tirek, buying time for Twilight to figure out the box. Have the other 5 help to hide Twilight from Tirek. Heck, have the big action sequence after the box is opened and let the other 5 do something. Do something with the rest of the cast rather than nonsensically brush them aside.


That's you rewriting the story as you'd like to see it, and is not necessarily better.

The other 5 have done things; in the rest of the season, where Twilight was more often brushed aside. This episode is Twilight's time to shine.

Where episodes like "Friendship is Magic" and "Return of Harmony" showed why Twilight needs her friends, and the "magic" of friendship, all this episode did was show that the Princess of Friendship doesn't need friends. She needs 5 fuses for the magic friendship canon, and all they need to do is stand there.


Twilight chooses her friends over all the magic in the world, and it leads to her victory, and the victory of her friends as well. Her victory is a culmination of all the friendship lessons she's learned making her able to see the right choice to reach out to a friend- even if it seemed like a terrible idea. Because friendship has become more important to Twilight than anything- magic, power, her title, and even all of Equestria.

Twilight wins by doing what she now does best. Not being great at magic, but by being a friend.

Yes, this is very much a Twilight-centric story (as season finales have tended to be), but I don't see that as problematic. Especially since, again, this season took a lot of focus off of her.

This episode gave us the development of Twilight's role as a princess, and her coming to grips with it. It was developed in an excellent, big way in my mind, that does utilize what Twilight's learned about friendship. We don't really need another two-parter that re-affirms that Twilight needs her friends; we should know this by now, and it was kind of a focus point in the season opener.

Episodes like MMC show why she is a great leader, and worthy of being a princess, this episode she's chosen for no reason except "Tirek might not know about you".


Edited for misunderstanding.

No, hiding Twilight with their magic wasn't a good option, but they didn't exactly have a better one. At best, their powers combined could stalemate Tirek, and they probably doubted that was even the case. And even if they could stalemate him with their magic, at which point Tirek would probably try to do the same thing and hostage people to get what he wants.

Twilight's selection may have been semi-incidental here, but it gave her a chance to show us why she really deserves to be a princess.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:48 am

See, I think MMC was a much better example of why should be a princess. There she actually uses her smarts to solve a problem. She doesn't do it all herself, and it shows why she should be the Princess of Friendship by solving the problem with friendship. And in a very Celestia-like way, the answer is to put others on the path to solve the problem on their own.

Same reason why they couldn't deal with Discord, Chystalis, or Sombra. They're not as strong as they used to be and they're not connected to the elements anymore. It's also implied that they got Tirek in a weakened state, whereas here he's much stronger.


Well, to be fair, Celestia did help with Discord. She had to fix Twilight before Twilight could fix everyone else. And TCE suffers much of the same "shove everyone else off to the side" problems this episode has. Really, TCE should have been a Cadance story. Instead they shove her off on shield duty because there's no one else that can do it. Not like there was a character in the very last episode, written by the very same writer, who's specialty was massive, city-sized shields.
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Postby Discord (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:51 am

See, I think MMC was a much better example of why should be a princess. There she actually uses her smarts to solve a problem. She doesn't do it all herself, and it shows why she should be the Princess of Friendship by solving the problem with friendship.


MMC is my favourite episode of all time, so I'm not one to argue against it, as I do think it does a great job. But I think this one does a great job too, and she absolutely solves the problem with friendship; specifically, befriending Discord.

Same reason why they couldn't deal with Discord, Chystalis, or Sombra. They're not as strong as they used to be and they're not connected to the elements anymore. It's also implied that they got Tirek in a weakened state, whereas here he's much stronger.


Well, to be fair, Celestia did help with Discord. She had to fix Twilight before Twilight could fix everyone else. And TCE suffers much of the same "shove everyone else off to the side" problems this episode has. Really, TCE should have been a Cadance story.


It was indirect intervention though; she wasn't trying to zap Discord like she originally did, and like you seem to suggest she should have been able to do against Tirek. And TCE suffers from its own issues so I don't feel much like defending it, and it doesn't add to my point in this case (that being that Celestia/Luna not taking on Tirek does make sense, given the show has repeatedly displayed them as not being as magically powerful as they once were).
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:08 am

I have to agree with Discord (the poster) here. I think Celestia did make the right choice in sending Discord (the spirit of chaos and disharmony) after Tirek. While I don't feel like splitting hairs over magical power levels, if he really was better able to track Tirek than she (or Twilight) would, then why not? It seemed like he could be trusted, though he'd never really been put to the test until now. I do not fault Celestia for trusting him.


I've definitely got to watch this one again. While writing this I realized that this episode is one of the few that I've only seen once.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:13 am

Discord wrote:
MMC is my favourite episode of all time, so I'm not one to argue against it, as I do think it does a great job. But I think this one does a great job too, and she absolutely solves the problem with friendship; specifically, befriending Discord.





It was indirect intervention though; she wasn't trying to zap Discord like she originally did, and like you seem to suggest she should have been able to do against Tirek. And TCE suffers from its own issues so I don't feel much like defending it, and it doesn't add to my point in this case (that being that Celestia/Luna not taking on Tirek does make sense, given the show has repeatedly displayed them as not being as magically powerful as they once were).


Well, given that before they had the magic of two Alicorns, and now they have four. I don't buy them not being able to take him out early. And while they don't have access to the Elements, I don't see the show making them less powerful, so much as not having any good ideas how to use them. Look at the comics. They pretty seamlessly write Celestia and Luna into the adventure arcs without them being the focus (the mirror arc being an obvious exception since it WAS about Celestia).

Twilight being the focus isn't the problem for me. My problem is when they force it with not much attention paid to the story to get there. "Canterlot Wedding". It made sense for everyone else to have a smaller role. She's the only one who knows Cadance and would be suspicious (well, and Celestia, but that's just one plot hole in an otherwise solid episode). This episode, it makes no sense for everyone else to be shoved aside, other than "we need to get to that fight scene".
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:19 am

I'd like to come back to this thread later, but for now I'll say that I liked this story a lot, and that I agree with Discord's post.

I'd also like to note that any time it seems like Celestia is dumping a lot of work on Twilight, we can just assume it's her doing her whole "Celestia works in mysterious ways and also teaches Twilight stuff by forcing her to save Equestria" thing.
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Postby Discord (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:22 am

Well, given that before they had the magic of two Alicorns, and now they have four. I don't buy them not being able to take him out early. And while they don't have access to the Elements, I don't see the show making them less powerful, so much as not having any good ideas how to use them. Look at the comics. They pretty seamlessly write Celestia and Luna into the adventure arcs without them being the focus (the mirror arc being an obvious exception since it WAS about Celestia).


In terms of taking him out early, you're right in that they probably could have before he got his power boost. However, it seems they were unable to track him, based on their need to have Discord do so. The error in judgement comes in having Discord track him alone. Once Tirek gathers his power, we see in the show that even the magic of four alicorns can't stop him.

The show just wants to focus on other characters besides Twilight and Luna. The comics have chosen to focus a lot more on side characters, which is also fine.

Twilight being the focus isn't the problem for me. My problem is when they force it with not much attention paid to the story to get there. "Canterlot Wedding". It made sense for everyone else to have a smaller role. She's the only one who knows Cadance and would be suspicious (well, and Celestia, but that's just one plot hole in an otherwise solid episode). This episode, it makes no sense for everyone else to be shoved aside, other than "we need to get to that fight scene".

[/quote]

It makes sense to shove other characters aside because they wanted this to be another big defining moment for Twilight, in which she really proves herself (mostly to herself, perhaps). I don't really think that was about trying to get to the fight scene. And I think they handled pushing other characters aside fine, though we differ on that. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:30 am

PaulloDEC wrote:I'd like to come back to this thread later, but for now I'll say that I liked this story a lot, and that I agree with Discord's post.

I'd also like to note that any time it seems like Celestia is dumping a lot of work on Twilight, we can just assume it's her doing her whole "Celestia works in mysterious ways and also teaches Twilight stuff by forcing her to save Equestria" thing.


Maybe it's just that when they do it every season it just starts to get silly.

Even Dumbledore had to save Harry's ass a few times.
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Postby doodlesplat (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:56 am

I contend that the magic of four alicorns, under Twilight's command, could have stopped Tirek. The fight simply didn't escalate to that level. Everypony seems to have something that flips them into high gear, eg. bullying their friends, breaking a promise, leaking a diary, or saving a sister by punching a rock. Twilight was only dialed up to 'a big meanie blew up my house'. Imagine what she'd be like if any of her friends actually got hurt. Granted, that probably wouldn't get past Hasbro.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:14 am

PaulloDEC wrote:I'd like to come back to this thread later, but for now I'll say that I liked this story a lot, and that I agree with Discord's post.

I'd also like to note that any time it seems like Celestia is dumping a lot of work on Twilight, we can just assume it's her doing her whole "Celestia works in mysterious ways and also teaches Twilight stuff by forcing her to save Equestria" thing.

I think they need to actually decide how all-powerful they want Celestia to be. Not that I want them to explicitly write out her power level or anything, but in these big episodes, she ping-pongs between "impossibly wise, old mentor" and "fallible leader with excellent HR skills." Celestia in this episode presents a plan that is flawed in ways both immediately and less-obviously flawed, but it all works out because Twilight is a Faithful Student who is also very lucky. I don't think it really drags down the show to admit that Celestia can be wrong, but sometimes we get the enigmatic chessmaster act. Now that Twilight is equally royalty, it's a good chance for them to peek behind Oz's curtain.

I'll have to come back to this thread after I've had a chance to sit down and watch the episode again. I don't think it's been long enough to change my mind, but I had very mixed feelings about this episode, and I want to make sure I'm being fair.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:53 am

My pet belief for everything The Doctor dislikes is a simple : Celestia's agenda isn't 'stop Tirek' but rather 'Test and if necessary, fully reform Discord, and teach Twilight her place in Equestria'.

If stopping Tirek was truly that critical, you don't send Discord alone. You send Discord, Luna, Celestia, and Fluttershy.

If keeping Twilight secret mattered, then you don't have a giant stained glass window of her, and that whole concept kind of fails when everypony in Equestria (And Discord) knows who she is.

If keeping the magic from Tirek mattered, it makes the most sense in one of the two most experienced with Alicorn magic.

And then there's the other little hints, like 'Discord knows how to open the box', and if he does, I do not buy Celestia doesn't as well when she has far more reason to study the Tree of Harmony than Discord does, given her previous status as Wielder of the Elements, as well as her need to do so to save Luna.

The one piece here that doesn't fit well is that having this as a convoluted plan also involves being willing to let most of Equestria be drained of its magic, which looks pretty darn unpleasant and seems pretty coldhearted, but if one accepts it as a fully cohesive narrative story, your choices are 'Celestia suddenly is extremely inexplicably foolish' or, well, 'Celestia is playing the greater game for reasons unknown'.

The real answer here is almost certainly Plot Holes, because that's something I've noticed with every McCarthy bookender (And EQG1) since the Wedding. Rainbow Rocks, however, did much much better in that department, so I'm much more optimistic S5 is going to be more Wedding and less Princess Twilight Sparkle.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:49 am

I can buy the theory that Celestia was originally testing Discord, but I think everything after he turned traitor was her panic mode.

Sending Discord alone would make sense if she believes that trust is the best way to inspire her students. It worked perfectly with Twilight. If you accept the comics, withholding that trust may have caused Sunset Shimmer's rebellion. So what could she do but trust Discord?

After that, though... Hiding Twilight from her friends would make sense if Discord didn't already have an established magic wallhacks power. The same goes for picking Twilight to hold all their magic. It's the best choice she could think of in about five minutes that didn't involve alicorns getting picked off one by one and drained of their magic.

We want to believe Celestia is playing eleven-dimensional chess at all times, even when changelings are beating her in battle, or she's sending Twilight dangerous magic that could destroy Team Elements o' Harmony, or when she gives Twilight strange, counter-productive orders for saving the Crystal Empire. But I think she simply trains her subjects as best she can, then places absolute faith in them to succeed. In normal matters of the heart, she's probably seen it all across fifty lifetimes and knows exactly what to say, but supervillains are always a unique challenge. She's not omniscient, she's not always right, but she can't ever stop trusting.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:48 pm

Trust is one thing, but then there is showing her and Luna doing nothing. That's why I think the comics are vastly superior when it comes to these adventure stories. Twilight and company are sent after Chrysalis, but there is a reason Celestia stayed behind. There's a reason she and Luna stay behind in. The Nightmarity arc. And they aren't just sitting there waiting to be captured, or to see if Twilight succeeds. Things are thought out more.

Another praise for the comics way is Twilight's feelings about becoming a Princess. While only a subplot in the mirror arc I thought it was handled far better and with a far more satisfying payoff with Celestia sacrificing herself whole telling Twilight what a good leader she will be alongside Luna.

Dexanth wrote:
The real answer here is almost certainly Plot Holes, because that's something I've noticed with every McCarthy bookender (And EQG1) since the Wedding. Rainbow Rocks, however, did much much better in that department, so I'm much more optimistic S5 is going to be more Wedding and less Princess Twilight Sparkle.


I'm hoping Larson or someone new gets to handle the bookends this time. Thankfully the short comicon clip makes it look like more of a team effort again, which will be a pleasant change.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:55 pm

The Doctor wrote:Well, given that before they had the magic of two Alicorns, and now they have four. I don't buy them not being able to take him out early.

They couldn't take him out early because they didn't know about him early. He was believed to have escaped when Cerberus got loose back during the events of It's About Time, so if Tirek had been waiting until he had enough power to start sucking up the magic of unicorns, Celestia wouldn't have known about him until reports of that started to surface. By the time she could figure out a response, Tirek was strong enough to where she thought it would be quicker and safer to send Discord instead of going and fighting Tirek herself.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:21 pm

So I've just gotten my rewatch in, and I feel like there's two big questions that need answering.

Question 1: Why let Discord find Tirek alone?

It's a good question without a good answer. Didn't occur to anyone? They were all busy elsewhere? Everyone just hates Discord and can't stand to be around him? Maybe it was a deliberate test to see if he'd truly changed. Maybe everyone just really naively assumed he was entirely trustworthy now. Who knows.

Question 2: What exactly did Celestia intend to happen once Twilight had all the Alicorn magic?

So this is the big one, really. Celestia, Luna and Cadance all get together to dump their magic on Twilight, but none of them make any mention of what happens next, and Twilight is too caught up in things to ask. Presumably the three eldest Princesses aren't so foolish that they weren't expecting to be locked away once Tirek found them, so what exactly was the plan?

As unsatisfying as it is, I'm going to have to fall back on the "Princess Celestia: Cosmic Chessmaster" answer again. It's the only one that makes any sense. Celestia knows about the Tree, and she knows about the Chest. She's intimately familiar with Twilight's progress as a Princess, and she's seen Twilight and the gang work together to kick various flanks multiple times now. The only way it makes any sense for Twilight to take all of the magic and go into hiding (as opposed to, say, all of the Princesses going into hiding together to formulate a plan) is if Celestia expects her to do something important on her own. I literally can't think of any other motivation that makes a lick of sense.

Additionally, in the Journal of the Two Sisters it's strongly implied that a young Star Swirl time-travelled far enough into the future to be aware of Twilight. How far exactly, it doesn't let on. We've always assumed that Celestia's unwavering faith in Twilight had to do with some vague idea of destiny, but there's also the possibility that Star Swirl, and therefore Celestia have known what Twilight can (and perhaps will) do for a very long time already...
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Postby TheNegaverser (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:34 pm

Loved these episodes. Lots of fun, great visuals, kickass battle scene, excellent music, emotionally resonant scenes, etc, etc. The whole Princessification of MMC was given reinforcement and meaning. And plot holes (of which I actually don't think were very many) have never bothered me in the slightest. So no issues there.

Plus, we got a surprisingly well-done Discord character arc, which I was not expecting at all. It's interesting to see how he's gone from a one-time villain voiced by a guest celebrity to an individual striving for redemption, forgiveness, and acceptance. God, this show is great! :allears:

So all in all, a wonderful conclusion to a wonderful season! 5, here we come! :yay:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:02 pm

Well...I don't know if I'll be rewatching this one so soon. I loved the episode, thought it had an awesome balance of everything that makes the show great but it's still so fresh in my mind... :v:
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:05 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:We want to believe Celestia is playing eleven-dimensional chess at all times, even when changelings are beating her in battle, or she's sending Twilight dangerous magic that could destroy Team Elements o' Harmony, or when she gives Twilight strange, counter-productive orders for saving the Crystal Empire. But I think she simply trains her subjects as best she can, then places absolute faith in them to succeed. In normal matters of the heart, she's probably seen it all across fifty lifetimes and knows exactly what to say, but supervillains are always a unique challenge. She's not omniscient, she's not always right, but she can't ever stop trusting.


The Crystal Empire wasn't counterproductive - the entire point there was to put Twilight in a situation where she had to choose whether she was going to obey the rules even when doing so would be disastrous. It was her test of character, her not-quite Kobayashi Maru. I admit, the one thing I am curious on is what the backup plan, if any, is in situations like these, although IIRC Lauren always put it as 'Celestia has a sort of 'destiny sense' and she's pretty damned good at using it'.

Fizzbuzz wrote:They couldn't take him out early because they didn't know about him early. He was believed to have escaped when Cerberus got loose back during the events of It's About Time, so if Tirek had been waiting until he had enough power to start sucking up the magic of unicorns, Celestia wouldn't have known about him until reports of that started to surface. By the time she could figure out a response, Tirek was strong enough to where she thought it would be quicker and safer to send Discord instead of going and fighting Tirek herself.


It's not the idea that Discord stopping Tirek is a bad thing, but rather that 'If Tirek represents such a threat, why send Discord alone? He's proven he's not fully trustworthy numerous times already, and sending him into that situation by himself is like sending a recovering alcoholic into a wild booze-laden party where everyone's going to be begging him to have just one little drink.

Again, it's why ultimately I know the most likely answer is plot hole, but that's fairly unsatisfying to accept :pinkieshrug:
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