S06E21: Every Little Thing She Does

Episode, movie, and comic book discussion threads are kept here once they have been released.

Moderators: Perrydotto, Dexanth, Venusy, Wayoshi

Re: S06E21: Every Little Thing She Does

Postby Aramek (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:52 pm

adiwan wrote:I'd like to point out that Twilight has created LIFE by transfiguring an object to a nest of hatching chicks.

We were very intentionally ignoring that.

We all saw.

:starity:
Aramek
User avatar
Xal Kota month, hail Seth Saxhleel.
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Feb 25, 2011
Location: Chicago, IL.
Gender: Male

Postby Applepie (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:55 pm

One of the episodes with a lack of BG ponies.
Pinkie Pie: So, you see this here? This, um, this is um, a big, round room. It's known for its roundness, and bigness, and did I mention that it's round?
Applepie
User avatar
Mr. the Dragon
Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Location: Yakyakistan
Gender: Male

Postby adiwan (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:59 pm

All of the BG pony budget went to the Las Pegasus episode.
adiwan
User avatar
Joined: Mar 27, 2015
Location: Germany
Gender: Male

Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:02 pm

For me this episode shows that Starlight can't solo an episode. She needs a foil like Starburst or Trixie to play off of.
The Doctor
User avatar
Turner of all things timey wimey
Celestia's Champions
Joined: May 05, 2011
Location: Time & Space
Gender: Male

Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:05 pm

This was a great episode. Starlight's insecurity felt real to me.

Ponies being monotone, following orders, was both funny and creepy.
Mr. Big
User avatar
Feeling witchy, aren't we?
Scootaloo's Pro Scooters
Joined: Mar 27, 2011
Location: TN
Gender: Male

Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:19 pm

Mr. Big wrote:This was a great episode. Starlight's insecurity felt real to me.

Ponies being monotone, following orders, was both funny and creepy.


Mind control makes a good theme. :sweetiebot:
:speakest: The fun has been doubled!
PonyHag714
User avatar
Trick or treat, smell my feet
Joined: Mar 18, 2013
Location: Oromareocto, Canterda
Gender: Male

Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:22 pm

Starlight is OP, pls nerf.

Also if I were the CMCs and found out how Starlight's punishment was she got help cleaning up the mess she made I'd be pissed.
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
Juju&Lulu
User avatar
Joined: Nov 01, 2013
Location: US

Postby RudeCyrus (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:26 pm

Great ep, enjoyed it thoroughly.
Image Image
RudeCyrus
User avatar
Everything is better with hats
Rainbow Racers
Joined: Feb 16, 2011
Location: Illinois
Gender: Male

Postby Rainbow Crash (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:43 pm

Man, it was great to have an episode with a slow, thorough conclusion for once.

Twilight isn't as good as Celestia when it comes to handling a student gone mad, but I'm sure she'll get there.
Image I'd never flown like that before! The freedom was unlike anything I'd ever felt! The speed, the adrenaline, the wind in my mane! I liked it... a lot.
Rainbow Crash
User avatar
Rainbow Racers
Joined: May 23, 2011

Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:47 pm

Twilight's just an apprentice chessmaster. :sheepish:
:speakest: The fun has been doubled!
PonyHag714
User avatar
Trick or treat, smell my feet
Joined: Mar 18, 2013
Location: Oromareocto, Canterda
Gender: Male

Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:56 pm

Applepie wrote:One of the episodes with a lack of BG ponies.


The stormclouds were brought by a bunch of background pegasi, actually :-P

This was cool but the whole spell thing really rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't satisfied by the ending. Someone suggested she might leave after this and that'd set up the finale, and really that would have been a good way to do it that might help solve the problems with Starlight's character. There's no way they'd go there though.

Still, this was funny and cute. And isn't that what Pony is all about? :allears:
Image
Highbrow Dash
User avatar
but why would you post such a thing??
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Oct 15, 2011
Location: Spain
Gender: Male

Postby Gloomy Rube (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:09 pm

The good:

Starlight is great, as usual

They're remembering that Trixie is her friend

The antics were very silly and fun

Aramek and I agree on starlight being good

The bad:

Spiders are your friends spike get out

The weird:

Rainbow Dash spoke with Applejack's voice during the end of the apology scene :v:
Image
ImageImageImageImage
Gloomy Rube
User avatar
Ooooohohohohohoho!
Celestia's Champions
Joined: Mar 20, 2011

Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:31 pm

Gloomy Rube wrote:Rainbow Dash spoke with Applejack's voice during the end of the apology scene :v:


Walter White did nothing wrong


So I'm enjoying these extreme Dutch angles they're doing lately:

Image

Really neato staging. Ever since the beginning this show has taken advantage of HD in a way that was very new at the time, by pulling back for a wide shot with a tiny little bit of detailed action in only a small part of the screen (the town-wide argument in Winter Wrap Up comes to mind); but a shot like this really takes it to a new level, with the off-kilter camera lending some interesting drama to the situation.

I also really enjoyed the montage at the end. That's one of the first ones of those that felt, like, the way Pony is "supposed" to since perhaps the Horse Wedding reconciliation montage. Great music with a novel tune; didn't sound like another generic CMC theme variation.

(And on a similar note, Pinkie's almost-song sounded like it was going to be hysterical, with a wacko voice and everything—and then she got interrupted, which I think is the show's way of lampshading that Pinke never bursts into doggerel songs at random anymore.)

(And on the Pinkie note, I did love how Pinkie's part in the ensemble rose to the level of subplot; she really took that cake thing personally. :-P )

But at a higher level, I think the only really big problem I have with this episode is that Starlight just feels wrong as a character somehow. I don't mean she's a bad character, or that she isn't well developed or organic in her interactions with others; I just feel like there's something very cockeyed about her entire conception. She's Pony Stalin who has been assigned to take lessons in friendship from a 19-year-old grad student, someone she can for all intents and purposes equal in magical ability and whose only real advantage is that she got into Celestia's good graces first. Twilight assigning friendship lessons to her feels patronizing and infantilizing. Isn't Starlight supposed to be at least the same age as Twilight? And certainly more seasoned in real-world experience? She might not have saved Equestria a bunch of times, but she's been in charge of her own little city-state and run a planned economy and an empire of fear, and if nothing else that puts her squarely into a position in life where her rehabilitation ought to be less about remedial playground exercises and more about, like, community service or something.

There's an interesting dynamic to be found in here if we accept that she and Twilight are both about the same age and Starlight's stint as a dictator was brief and all but accidental. But even given that, I have trouble understanding who the intended audience is for these stories. Are kids supposed to find it relatable that an "adult" becomes the protege of a "teenager"? Or even that two people the same age enter into this kind of tutor-student relationship centered around explicitly prescribed "friendship lessons"? Maybe it feels natural to kids, but it seems really weird and artificial to me, and I think I'd have rather they had either a) come up with a completely different and more appropriate way to punish and rehabilitate Starlight, or b) had her chafe under Twilight's bumbling tutelage and threaten to relapse.

Maybe they're building toward the latter; the reminder that she's every bit as good at actual magic as Twilight is, as well has her complete lack of natural empathy toward other people (manifested in her not seeing anything wrong with turning her "friends" into puppets), might be a sign of that. But it doesn't seem like that's where all this is headed, really. Seems like the show would be dropping more ominous hints if that were the case. Right now it's all just lighthearted gags, of the "Remember that time you enslaved a whole town? Haha, good times" variety.

Upshot is, the whole basic idea of Starlight confuses me, but other than that I pretty much liked this episode a lot. It was hecka funny, plenty of :ponydrugs: moments (e.g. quenching the ovens with friggin' stormclouds), and had a nice ending. "How long do we have to sit quietly?" Yeah, Starlight still doesn't understand the concept of doing something for its own sake and not as a task on a checklist. They could do something dramatic with that if they want to, but I'm pretty skeptical that they will.
Headless Horse
User avatar
The pumpkin is strictly ornamental
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Postby Captain Rufus (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:57 pm

It was fun enough. Nothing mindblowing but seeing Starlight continually seeing how she screwed up throughout was nice. She messed up but didn't think through how to fix it.

Where all the solutions were simple. She just didn't realize it till the end.
My hobby games blog: http://wargamedork.blogspot.com
Captain Rufus
User avatar
The derpin rolls, and the lightning strikes!
Another muffin grows cold on an Equestrian night!
As the storm goes on out of control,
deep in her heart the derpin rolls!
Faithful Students
Joined: Feb 14, 2011

Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:20 pm

She sure has this part of emulating Twilight down pat:

Image

UUGGGHHHHHH
Headless Horse
User avatar
The pumpkin is strictly ornamental
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Postby Gloomy Rube (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:55 pm

Horse, I do want to say that I agree with you on terms of Twilight and Starlight's relationship being REALLY weird, but I blame Twilight for that, like I do most things :v:
Image
ImageImageImageImage
Gloomy Rube
User avatar
Ooooohohohohohoho!
Celestia's Champions
Joined: Mar 20, 2011

Postby Daring Do (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:56 pm

Headless Horse wrote:I haven't watched the preview and I don't know if this is what is literally going to be the plot of the episode (it kinda sounds like it is based on what you guys are saying), but it seems to me like a good concept for a story would be Starlight thinking she's "helping" the Mane 6 by transforming them to take away their character flaws.

It would be a retread in some cases (we've seen FlutterNotShy plenty of times by now), but it might be funny to see Applejack being given an artificial boost in intelligence because Starlight thinks she's stupid or something :iamapony: Or Rainbow Dash with humility, or Pinkie becoming bound by logic, or Rarity genuinely enjoying getting muddy :heehaw:

The point being that those things that make different people different aren't necessarily "flaws", but essential parts of their characters.


Mike Vogel wishes he thought of this
Daring Do
User avatar
Joined: Apr 19, 2015
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Gender: Male

Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:44 pm

Can I just say that I laughed at Pinkie being pissed at Starlight for making her burn the cake? :lol:
Mr. Big
User avatar
Feeling witchy, aren't we?
Scootaloo's Pro Scooters
Joined: Mar 27, 2011
Location: TN
Gender: Male

Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:03 pm

Mr. Big wrote:Can I just say that I laughed at Pinkie being pissed at Starlight for making her burn the cake? :lol:


Pinkie was more angry about those cakes than Twilight was about her friends having their minds screwed with by a sociopath again.
The Doctor
User avatar
Turner of all things timey wimey
Celestia's Champions
Joined: May 05, 2011
Location: Time & Space
Gender: Male

Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:05 pm

Maybe after this I can finally get that Police song out of my head, but probably not.

• Ooh, the castle looks so pretty at the magic hour!
• It's cool to see Twilight with a magic playmate. Rarity never really filled that role. And yeah, technically this is a training session, but I think we all know it's really playtime.
• That is one cute jellyfish. :3:
• Holy shit, combat training? A+ already.
• And once again we see Starlight is abnormally powerful and doesn't realize it and nopony ever tells her.
• Yeah, the show isn't called Magic Is Magic, Starlight, you have to grind for friends occasionally.
• I would like to meet Celestia's current batch of students.
• You know what Starlight needs? She needs a Spike. Maybe Fluttershy has some nice critters in stock! :yay:
• Ha, the "no equals" sign in her room.
• UGH, sew with Rarity. :roll:
• Silly characters, everyone knows a chillax is a monster encountered in dungeon levels 8 through 11.
• Location scouting :lol:
• Did Pinkie just drop a Lazytown reference? :starity: What's next, Fluttershy helps the NEDM cat?
• Starlight Glimmer: SUPER GENIUS.
• Always love when Starlight shows the traits that made her a villain when we first met her. She really does love controlling people and justifying it later.
• "They ran away." :whatsup: Dying here.
• Ha, Starlight's smile: she's totally OK with the creepy mind-slavery so far.
• Pinkie :amazed: -ing, Fluttershy crawling with bugs. :lol:
• Ha, Twilight's back already? How do we still have a whole act to go?
• Twilight's not mad just disappointed. :fluttersmith:
• Aw, I totally understand Starlight.
• Spell hangovers! :gotcha: I love this show.
• I like that Dash is actually mad, and everypony's not just "oh ok" like sometimes happens on this show.
• They actually put the cobwebs back.
• Aw, nice Pinkie smile.
• I was hoping the episode would end on a long, quiet shot of everyone chillaxing. An everyone laughs gag was not strictly necessary.
Image
Mechanical Ape
User avatar
Any good Mechanical Ape posts left in here?
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Sep 24, 2011
Gender: Male

Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:20 pm

Someone help me with the Lazytown reference?

Also, yes, Fluttershy covered with spiders and snakes and smiling beatifically was some first-class :ponydrugs:
Headless Horse
User avatar
The pumpkin is strictly ornamental
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Postby King Sombra (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:22 pm

Headless Horse wrote:Someone help me with the Lazytown reference?


Once you see this it can't be unseen or unheard. Pinkie pie says the line "It's a piece of cake to bake a pretty cake" from the song.



edit: Someone already did a video about it.

King Sombra
User avatar
Evil
Joined: May 12, 2012

Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:29 pm

Baahaha okay.

God Pinkie sounds so manic there, I love that fucking voice she puts on, it's like she's suddenly channeling Kate Hepburn or something
Headless Horse
User avatar
The pumpkin is strictly ornamental
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:33 pm

Incidentally I'm not sure what to think of how prominently this episode features the names of spells. I think it may even be the first time a spell is given a specific name, or at least one so Harry Potter-esque. Is that Mike Vogel not quite "getting" how the show handles magic, where it's all pretty much handled through internal mental struggle and never talked about in detail? Or is it a particular thing about how Starlight approaches magic?
Headless Horse
User avatar
The pumpkin is strictly ornamental
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:36 pm

Fluttershy was covered in creepy crawlies!
:waugh:

Applejack was carpet bombing those references. Notting Hill, Predator and Spider-Man in a single episode? Clam down with that, Applejack.
:-P

Never seen Lazytown either but a quick Google search brought me up to some cake baking song.

This episode felt good. It was entertaining and didn't feel rushed. I liked it.
:allears:
Image
If I had a bit for every time you made me feel worthless, I'd be worth something by now.
Soft Snow
User avatar
A shot to the heart... And I'm to blame.
Joined: Apr 16, 2015
Location: Golden Oak Kingdom
Gender: Female

Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:42 pm

Headless Horse wrote:But at a higher level, I think the only really big problem I have with this episode is that Starlight just feels wrong as a character somehow. I don't mean she's a bad character, or that she isn't well developed or organic in her interactions with others; I just feel like there's something very cockeyed about her entire conception. She's Pony Stalin who has been assigned to take lessons in friendship from a 19-year-old grad student, someone she can for all intents and purposes equal in magical ability and whose only real advantage is that she got into Celestia's good graces first. Twilight assigning friendship lessons to her feels patronizing and infantilizing. Isn't Starlight supposed to be at least the same age as Twilight? And certainly more seasoned in real-world experience? She might not have saved Equestria a bunch of times, but she's been in charge of her own little city-state and run a planned economy and an empire of fear, and if nothing else that puts her squarely into a position in life where her rehabilitation ought to be less about remedial playground exercises and more about, like, community service or something.


I suppose it is a bit patronising having Twilight giving Starlight lessons in friendship, but is it much more so than Celestia telling her most promising student to stop being such a nerd and go make friends? Tossing a magically talented pony with a distinct lack of social skills into the friendship deep-end has a pretty good track record so far.

You could argue that Starlight's life experience makes her ill-suited to being coached by someone younger/less talented than her, but what good would community service do Starlight, really? How would that experience change her? Episodes like this one show us that being taught how to live among other ponies is the skill she needs to learn above all others, and there may not be any other group of ponies outside of Twilight and the gang who'd be willing to shoulder her mistakes (like, I dunno, being mind-controlled) with a smile and a "Let's give that another try, yeah?"

Headless Horse wrote:There's an interesting dynamic to be found in here if we accept that she and Twilight are both about the same age and Starlight's stint as a dictator was brief and all but accidental. But even given that, I have trouble understanding who the intended audience is for these stories. Are kids supposed to find it relatable that an "adult" becomes the protege of a "teenager"? Or even that two people the same age enter into this kind of tutor-student relationship centered around explicitly prescribed "friendship lessons"? Maybe it feels natural to kids, but it seems really weird and artificial to me, and I think I'd have rather they had either a) come up with a completely different and more appropriate way to punish and rehabilitate Starlight, or b) had her chafe under Twilight's bumbling tutelage and threaten to relapse.


I wonder if the whole thing wouldn't have worked better without the explicit tutor/student stuff. Like, what if Starlight's rehabilitation had just been more similar to Twilight's original brief; to live in Ponyville and make some friends (while also maybe being Twilight's roomie)?

Headless Horse wrote:Maybe they're building toward the latter; the reminder that she's every bit as good at actual magic as Twilight is, as well has her complete lack of natural empathy toward other people (manifested in her not seeing anything wrong with turning her "friends" into puppets), might be a sign of that. But it doesn't seem like that's where all this is headed, really. Seems like the show would be dropping more ominous hints if that were the case. Right now it's all just lighthearted gags, of the "Remember that time you enslaved a whole town? Haha, good times" variety.

Upshot is, the whole basic idea of Starlight confuses me, but other than that I pretty much liked this episode a lot. It was hecka funny, plenty of moments (e.g. quenching the ovens with friggin' stormclouds), and had a nice ending. "How long do we have to sit quietly?" Yeah, Starlight still doesn't understand the concept of doing something for its own sake and not as a task on a checklist. They could do something dramatic with that if they want to, but I'm pretty skeptical that they will.


I think a relapse in the vein of Discord in Twilight's Kingdom would be really interesting, but as you say, that isn't something I'm expecting to happen.
PaulloDEC
User avatar
Gah!
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
Location: Queensland, Australia
Gender: Male

Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:44 pm

Headless Horse wrote:Incidentally I'm not sure what to think of how prominently this episode features the names of spells. I think it may even be the first time a spell is given a specific name, or at least one so Harry Potter-esque. Is that Mike Vogel not quite "getting" how the show handles magic, where it's all pretty much handled through internal mental struggle and never talked about in detail? Or is it a particular thing about how Starlight approaches magic?

Oh, they have been naming spells since season one. But for the first few seasons they have been giving them very generic names for spells, if naming them at all. Remember the Need-it Want-it spell from Lesson Zero? But honestly it didn't real like well developed or defined spells. More like they just recently started getting into categorizing spells and what not.

I guess in a way it feels more like a show about a physics professor that conveniently avoids talking about any specific physics terms or theories in class until the next season or so.
Image
If I had a bit for every time you made me feel worthless, I'd be worth something by now.
Soft Snow
User avatar
A shot to the heart... And I'm to blame.
Joined: Apr 16, 2015
Location: Golden Oak Kingdom
Gender: Female

Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:47 pm

Pinkie taking frivolous stuff seriously is always funnier than Pinkie taking serious stuff frivolously.

Aramek wrote:Starlight rules and, I was right, did nothing wrong.

Counterpoint: Starlight rules and did several things wrong.

ETA: Lesson Zero had the "amniomorphic spell" or whatever, and I feel like the spell names here are in the vein of that. Mainly though I think it was meant to underline Starlight's compartmentalized, analytical approach to magic/basic social behavior.
Image
Mechanical Ape
User avatar
Any good Mechanical Ape posts left in here?
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Sep 24, 2011
Gender: Male

Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:12 am

PaulloDEC wrote:You could argue that Starlight's life experience makes her ill-suited to being coached by someone younger/less talented than her, but what good would community service do Starlight, really? How would that experience change her? Episodes like this one show us that being taught how to live among other ponies is the skill she needs to learn above all others, and there may not be any other group of ponies outside of Twilight and the gang who'd be willing to shoulder her mistakes (like, I dunno, being mind-controlled) with a smile and a "Let's give that another try, yeah?"


The way they're playing her I almost wonder whether they're actually going for an angle of the "friendship lessons" being meant to be read as a form of therapy. Most of Starlight's episodes, but this one in particular, paint her not just as a clueless weirdo with a traumatic thing that happened in her past, but as someone with some severe untreated mental scarring. In this episode she's a straight-up sociopath, in the "I don't understand why controlling others is wrong" and "I don't understand why you would want to do things with or for other people, rather than for your own self-interest" sense.

She means well and she's not actively threatening other ponies, but only because she's trying to win brownie points, not because she understands and desires the value of what she's learning. I mean her greatest fears are revealed to be "failing at a task", and it's so overpowering in her mind that it doesn't even occur to her that the whole point of the friendship lessons is to make friends, organically, through exposure and shared interests.

This is not unlike the way Twilight was early on in her development, but it goes way, way further than Twilight ever did. Twilight feared rejection, because once she'd had her epiphany in the series' very first episode, she craved and valued the company of her friends so intensely that she freaked out over the thought that the others would reject her for being too powerful at magic and "showing off". She staged a slumber party out of a textbook because she knew it was something someone was "supposed" to do as part of a friend-filled childhood, but she did it because she wanted the genuine friendship to happen as realistically as possible under the circumstances. She got on the path to organic friend-making way early on in the show, if way too late in her own life, and every step she took along that path was just a relatable picture of a nerdy shut-in whose values have changed and who now realizes she has to make up for lost time.

But Starlight's path so far, while it shares elements of Twilight's—namely the overcompensation, the awkwardness, the freakouts—has its roots in something a lot more unbalanced, something that feels like it's maybe beyond this show's pay grade to try to depict. It feels like Starlight honestly has no conscience, for lack of a better term, and everything she's doing is "by the book" not because she doesn't know a better way to get herself back on track to an organic destination she clearly sees, but because she literally thinks that going "by the book" has some inherent merit in and of itself, like if she scores enough points in Friendship she'll get a prize. She doesn't "get" friendship at all. There's no reality to it for her. It's just a game to excel at.

And having Twilight be her tutor, when Twilight is by no means a perfect role model when it comes to being socially well adjusted, feels like a recipe for true disaster. It's like a self-anointed, unlicensed "therapist" trying to diagnose and treat someone's mental illness through crystal healing or prayer. If the show were so equipped, it could go somewhere really big and dark with this storyline; it's not quite a case of the blind leading the blind, but it's perhaps something about Celestia putting way too much faith in Twilight way too early on, or maybe misjudging the whole idea of raising someone from having a CHA of 2 straight up the ladder to being the Princess of Friendship. Maybe you can't pick up everything you need to know that quickly even if you are a prodigy. Or maybe Celestia shouldn't have trusted such a fundamentally important quality in this universe as friendship to a civilian in the first place.
Headless Horse
User avatar
The pumpkin is strictly ornamental
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:17 am

Headless Horse wrote:Incidentally I'm not sure what to think of how prominently this episode features the names of spells. I think it may even be the first time a spell is given a specific name, or at least one so Harry Potter-esque.


Whitenoise Poster wrote:Guys.

Starswirl the bearded.
father of the amniomorphic spell.
amnio=bowl.
morphic=morph
a bearded wizard that shapes bowls
a hairy potter
SlateSlabrock
User avatar
The information's unavailable to the mortal man.
Celestia's Champions
Joined: Feb 14, 2011

Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:22 am

I'd thought we had put those dark days behind us :rainbert:
Headless Horse
User avatar
The pumpkin is strictly ornamental
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Postby Aramek (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:25 am

HH is hitting pretty close to home there. :fluttershock:
Aramek
User avatar
Xal Kota month, hail Seth Saxhleel.
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Feb 25, 2011
Location: Chicago, IL.
Gender: Male

Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:25 am

If they're going for this long game "Twilight and Starlight's relationship goes to shit" story like Obi-Wan and Anakin in the Clone Wars show then it'll have to wait until the mythical next season given that the next time we see Starlight is going to be the finale and we already know whats happening in that episode.

But yeah the whole "Starlight just has no concept of friendship" extends to the even the final scene. They're all "chillaxing" Starlight just keeps waiting for the chillaxing to happen so she can finally achieve a 100% complation rate.

Starlight had the potential to be a more interesting character but this episode makes me believe we're never gonna get much out of her past being a female Discord in that they're both incredibly powerful assholes that are just friends with the Mane 6 because it's just more convenient for all parties involved. Which I guess is interesting enough in of itself.
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
Juju&Lulu
User avatar
Joined: Nov 01, 2013
Location: US

Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:28 am

Thing is though, Discord has had an actual redemption arc. We've seen him stumble along the way, and he was never instantly friends with any of the mane 6.
The Doctor
User avatar
Turner of all things timey wimey
Celestia's Champions
Joined: May 05, 2011
Location: Time & Space
Gender: Male

Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:29 am

Headless Horse wrote:But Starlight's path so far, while it shares elements of Twilight's—namely the overcompensation, the awkwardness, the freakouts—has its roots in something a lot more unbalanced, something that feels like it's maybe beyond this show's pay grade to try to depict. It feels like Starlight honestly has no conscience, for lack of a better term, and everything she's doing is "by the book" not because she doesn't know a better way to get herself back on track to an organic destination she clearly sees, but because she literally thinks that going "by the book" has some inherent merit in and of itself, like if she scores enough points in Friendship she'll get a prize. She doesn't "get" friendship at all. There's no reality to it for her. It's just a game to excel at.


I think the dilemma is that Starlight is ultimately a supervillain. She's redeemed because it's necessary for the safety of Equestria, just like Discord or Nightmare Moon. Trixie was "redeemed" by taking away her magic "I win" button, and she's technically good now, but we didn't really get any clear indication of that until the end of her episode this season.

But Starlight just sort of switches sides because she sees the outcome of her actions is so blindingly terrible even she realizes it's self-defeating. And this season, it's been very clear she doesn't understand friendship or others' feelings or even why she would want companionship at all. I'm surprised she was so broken up over Sunburst because it's the only time she's wanted another pony around just for companionship's sake... or did she just feel insulted that he might have spurned her?

Anyway, Starlight is clearly as powerful as Twilight in a fight, which is a problem for the show if she isn't "good," and they've ignored that all season. This episode proves that she still needs to be handled like Discord -- a potential problem, but one you can't solve without forcing her into friendship situations so she can gradually understand the basic social graces she's missing.
SlateSlabrock
User avatar
The information's unavailable to the mortal man.
Celestia's Champions
Joined: Feb 14, 2011

Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:32 am

Yeah which is honestly my biggest problem with Starlight. When you look at Starlight and Discord and start naming their biggest traits the two have a lot in common both as characters and just how they're used in their stories. But they way the both of them are handled in regards to how everyone else reacts to them just feels off.
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
Juju&Lulu
User avatar
Joined: Nov 01, 2013
Location: US

Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:36 am

DerFurShur wrote:If they're going for this long game "Twilight and Starlight's relationship goes to shit" story like Obi-Wan and Anakin in the Clone Wars show then it'll have to wait until the mythical next season given that the next time we see Starlight is going to be the finale and we already know whats happening in that episode.


I doubt we'll get a Starlight relapse. They don't have enough time to build her up as a good character already, so they couldn't follow the same path as Discord of taking one step back and two steps forward. Making her switch sides would probably require her giving up on goodness entirely, and that would translate to a huge failure for Twilight, The Princess of Friendship. I don't think they can allow that so close to the potential end of the show (if they don't continue after the movie).
SlateSlabrock
User avatar
The information's unavailable to the mortal man.
Celestia's Champions
Joined: Feb 14, 2011

Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:48 am

DerFurShur wrote:Yeah which is honestly my biggest problem with Starlight. When you look at Starlight and Discord and start naming their biggest traits the two have a lot in common both as characters and just how they're used in their stories. But they way the both of them are handled in regards to how everyone else reacts to them just feels off.


It's super interesting / instructive to see how Starlight doesn't really like the Mane 6 that much (particularly Rarity, as Ape noticed—god, that eye-roll when she mentioned sewing with Rarity), nor do they seem to like her that much. Dash and Pinkie were genuinely pretty pissed off at her in the hangover scene, and not just in the "well sugarcube, you fucked up, but we love you anyway" way, but more like the "uughh, I guess we're putting up with this pony if we have to, but I sure don't have to like it" way.

I tried picturing myself as one of the Mane 6 in the S1 era watching Twilight trying her earnest best to win my friendship, and all I could think was that I'd root for her to do exactly that, and I'd give her cheat codes if I had to. But picturing myself as one of the group that Starlight is trying to fit in with... I'd kind of rather she just went away.
Headless Horse
User avatar
The pumpkin is strictly ornamental
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:49 am

Yeah which is why I think any future appearances of Starlight will more or less follow this template. She'll be kinda good but also do evil things but gosh darn she just can't get this friendship thing right, but Twilight won't be angry but... disappointed in her (I'll admit as much as I didn't like Twilight's reaction to this, I do like how it plays into the disappointed parent trope)
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
Juju&Lulu
User avatar
Joined: Nov 01, 2013
Location: US

Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:57 am

I mean, they've given Starlight shit before when she's acted up. But yeah, I do feel it went a bit too far in this episode, and it's hard to believe they'd go there without addressing it some way. Hopefully they'll do that in the finale.
Image
Highbrow Dash
User avatar
but why would you post such a thing??
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Oct 15, 2011
Location: Spain
Gender: Male

Previous Next

Return to Pony Media Release Threads

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests