S04E13: Simple Ways

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Re: S04E13: Simple Ways

Postby Discord (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:08 pm

Pony show keeps finding ways to surprise me. :golfclop:

I wasn't overly fond of the end of first act/second act...I was kind of gagging at it, even though it is more in Rarity's character and it's somewhat lamp shaded. It was funny, but not funny enough to make up for a lack of emotional investment. I didn't care for Trenderhoof and I couldn't really get that invested in that dilemma, beyond AJ's side of it.

But then Rarity goes all southern and oh my god that show-down between her and AJ is probably got to be in my top-10 pony moments ever. It was one of the funniest things the show has managed, and it was great character drama and a sweet callback. I loved it. As far as I'm concerned, that scene justified anything bad you could say about this episode.

And it wraps up with a really excellent moral, probably one of my favourite ones ever. All-in-all, a pretty damn good episode, despite somewhat lacklustre start and a questionable premise. I am thoroughly impressed.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:09 pm

Well, that was different. Definitely some funny parts, and I liked how Spike got a little bigger role in this one, plus I think he had the face of the episode, when he was first speaking to Rarity and broke the 4th wall.

I liked seeing Vinyl, and Derpy. The "underappreciated" remark was interesting, almost a dig at Hasbro.

I guess I can live with Trenderhooves being around, if he is going to be.
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Postby Foalish Gambino (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:09 pm

Oh god, that attempt at a southern accent. Between Joe Carroll on The Following and now Rarity, I may have heard the two worst attempts at southern accenting in history.

I would pay money, good money, for a show that was nothing but Tabitha St Germain, Donald Glover, Terry Crews and Charlie Day just freaking out over everything all the time.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:10 pm

MochaBean wrote:
"I really respect the work ethic of Earth Ponies." :gotcha:

That line killed me, even in Equestria they have cultural patronization.

We need a Trenderhoof smiley now.

Thanks, I was trying to remember the exact quote.

My stream cut in and out and I missed the start but what I saw was a lot of fun :v:
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Postby Venusy (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:10 pm

kefkafloyd wrote:I'd like "I LOVE BEING COVERED IN MUD" as an av, because I have the perfect custom title for it. :scheming:

I LOVE BEING COVERED IN SHITPOSTS! :v:

Lot of funny gags, especially once Rarity reinvented herself as Southern Northern Englander and the faceoff with Applejewel. Not much substance there though. :pinkieshrug: Still a good episode overall, but it could have got to things sooner.
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Postby Snow Drift (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:11 pm

I went into this one is extremely low expectations and I was blown away. The exchange between AJ and Rarity is the sort that you almost need several seasons of character development to pull off well, in my opinion.

Also crazy Rarity is the best Rarity.
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Postby RudeCyrus (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:11 pm

This episode had a ton of hilarious moments, Tabitha is an amazing VA, but the ending was really meh. Still fun, though.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:11 pm

I kind of wish they had revealed that the AJ's dress was her own creation. They leave it open as to if it really is, or if she was just nervous that one of Rarity's dresses was dirtied.
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Postby MochaBean (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:12 pm

PonyHag714 wrote:I guess I can live with Trenderhooves being around, if he is going to be.

He's not, he was just a one shot. The episode's moral would pretty much be invalidated if he actually stuck around.
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Postby Aramek (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:13 pm

Snow Drift wrote:I went into this one is extremely low expectations.
Do this with every episode and you'll only ever be impressed! :wink:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:14 pm

This was awkward and cringeworthy at times, but in that perfect comedic way (like Curb Your Enthusiasm), so congratulations to FiM for pulling that off. I'm glad that the episode ended up being more about Rarity and Applejack than it was about either one of them and Trenderhoof. Seeing an Equestrian hipster was also hilarious ("the work ethic of earth ponies," holy shiiiit). And while Spike didn't directly confront Rarity, I am glad he still got to be grumpy about Rarity being too obsessed to even realize her own hypocrisy.

One complaint: Even though the CMC appeared in that scene in the barn, neither Sweetie Belle nor Apple Bloom stopped and asked what the hell Rarity was doing. Though I guess the tiny unicorn is desensitized to this sort of thing by now?
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:15 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:This was awkward and cringeworthy at times, but in that perfect comedic way (like Curb Your Enthusiasm), so congratulations to FiM for pulling that off. I'm glad that the episode ended up being more about Rarity and Applejack than it was about either one of them and Trenderhoof. Seeing an Equestrian hipster was also hilarious ("the work ethic of earth ponies," holy shiiiit). And while Spike didn't directly confront Rarity, I am glad he still got to be grumpy about Rarity being too obsessed to even realize her own hypocrisy.

One complaint: Even though the CMC appeared in that scene in the barn, neither Sweetie Belle nor Apple Bloom stopped and asked what the hell Rarity was doing. Though I guess the tiny unicorn is desensitized to this sort of thing by now?


Sweetie Belle most certainly did give Rarity a look as she was walking away.
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Postby Applepie (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:15 pm

Man, I had been blown away too after waiting in weeks for this episode. :yay:
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:15 pm

Overall, awkward and silly-fun episode. Loved AJ's characterization in this. She was so focused on work and pissed off at the silliness around her. She just wanted everyone to be honest to themselves. :allears:

Ending moral was also great, and exactly what I hoped for. Not to say I would've hated it had it been any other way, but this was legitimately executed well regardless. Having all three of them standing in the barn dressed as who they aren't and realizing that it isn't the right way is a powerful image. This may also be the first time Rarity didn't completely steal the show during whatever scenes she was in, but not for lack of trying. All the characters were just at top-notch this episode.

Looking forward to the rest of the season.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:17 pm

The Outlander wrote:Overall, awkward and silly-fun episode. Loved AJ's characterization in this. She was so focused on work and pissed off at the silliness around her. She just wanted everyone to be honest to themselves. :allears:



The fact that Trenderhoof is so unappealing to AJ that she can't even talk about Apples with the guy is pretty much the harshest rebuke ever.
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Postby Veradox (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:18 pm

This episode actually wasn't too bad. I thought it was going to be a train wreck, however, it turned out being not that bad. 6/10.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:18 pm

Hopefully this explains my complaints fairly well:

When I first saw the EW clip yesterday, I figured that was the end of Act II. Instead, it was the climax of the whole episode, coming pretty late also. I feel like that's a pacing problem, but it could be me expecting something else based off of the clip. :pinkieshrug: Regardless, the whole conclusion afterwards is a couple more Rarity fashion jokes, Trenderhoof learning, and the moral overlaid by the Days Festival. It kinda just... ends.

There's nothing wrong with a quiet episode like this, but there could have been so much more done with Cowgirlity and Orangejack than there was - Rarity could have transformed much earlier than she did, and then REALLY make the Ponyville Days Festival crappy at the start, which would have been pretty hilarious. Instead, the conflict was fully resolved by some well-placed mud and the Days Festival went without a hitch.

The Days Festival celebrates Ponyville's beginnings, so of course Trenderhoof is there, what makes Ponyville Ponyville should be on display (although Rarity kinda ultimately glams it up...). He also appreciates the simple ways, pun intended, of ponies working in the cog of a town, as he's been everywhere in Equestria - I think there's some dialogue to this effect. This all made sense and was good. So why are all the aspects written in this paragraph plainly underused? Trend might as well have been a stock hunk, maybe his characteristics are just supposed to explain why he's so enamored with AJ and farm life in general, but it was so obsessive anyways it still felt a little weird.
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:21 pm

Wayoshi wrote:Hopefully this explains my complaints fairly well:

When I first saw the EW clip yesterday, I figured that was the end of Act II. Instead, it was the climax of the whole episode, coming pretty late also. I feel like that's a pacing problem, but it could be me expecting something else based off of the clip. :pinkieshrug: Regardless, the whole conclusion afterwards is a couple more Rarity fashion jokes, Trenderhoof learning, and the moral overlaid by the Days Festival. It kinda just... ends.

There's nothing wrong with a quiet episode like this, but there could have been so much more done with Cowgirlity and Orangejack than there was - Rarity could have transformed much earlier than she did, and then REALLY make the Ponyville Days Festival crappy at the start, which would have been pretty hilarious. Instead, the conflict was fully resolved by some well-placed mud and the Days Festival went without a hitch.

The Days Festival celebrates Ponyville's beginnings, so of course Trenderhoof is there, what makes Ponyville Ponyville should be on display (although Rarity kinda ultimately glams it up...). He also appreciates the simple ways, pun intended, of ponies working in the cog of a town, as he's been everywhere in Equestria - I think there's some dialogue to this effect. This all made sense and was good. So why are all the aspects written in this paragraph plainly underused? Trend might as well have been a stock hunk, maybe his characteristics are just supposed to explain why he's so enamored with AJ and farm life in general, but it was so obsessive anyways it still felt a little weird.


I think this episode pulled off enjoyable-but-cringeworthy humor just fine. If she had transformed earlier, it would've been so cringeworthy to the point of being tiresome, and I feel they picked the right time to build up to the climax. I do agree that I was surprised to discover there was only 3 minutes left in the episode at that Apple Jewel/Cowgirlity scene, but there really wasn't any other way they could do it properly considering time constraints. Besides, the quality of the ending itself far made up for any pacing issues I had directly leading up to it.
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Postby Discord (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:22 pm

I'm pretty surprised they would put that scene as the spoiler clip, seeing as how it is the climax and highlight of the episode. Not particularly good selection.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:23 pm

The Doctor wrote:
The fact that Trenderhoof is so unappealing to AJ that she can't even talk about Apples with the guy is pretty much the harshest rebuke ever.

Yeah, that's something I thought was interesting, that Applejack was so put off by him. Beforehand I wondered if perhaps she'd have more of a "well, you're nice, but you're really not my type" attitude, but maybe she just isn't interested in romance at all.
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Postby Chaos Sonic (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:24 pm

drunkill wrote:Rarity is very rasict.

:iiaia: :racis:

:squintyjack: Dammit Rarity, casual racism is my job.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:24 pm

Wayoshi wrote:Hopefully this explains my complaints fairly well:

When I first saw the EW clip yesterday, I figured that was the end of Act II. Instead, it was the climax of the whole episode, coming pretty late also. I feel like that's a pacing problem, but it could be me expecting something else based off of the clip. :pinkieshrug: Regardless, the whole conclusion afterwards is a couple more Rarity fashion jokes, Trenderhoof learning, and the moral overlaid by the Days Festival. It kinda just... ends.

There's nothing wrong with a quiet episode like this, but there could have been so much more done with Cowgirlity and Orangejack than there was - Rarity could have transformed much earlier than she did, and then REALLY make the Ponyville Days Festival crappy at the start, which would have been pretty hilarious. Instead, the conflict was fully resolved by some well-placed mud and the Days Festival went without a hitch.

The Days Festival celebrates Ponyville's beginnings, so of course Trenderhoof is there, what makes Ponyville Ponyville should be on display (although Rarity kinda ultimately glams it up...). He also appreciates the simple ways, pun intended, of ponies working in the cog of a town, as he's been everywhere in Equestria - I think there's some dialogue to this effect. This all made sense and was good. So why are all the aspects written in this paragraph plainly underused? Trend might as well have been a stock hunk, maybe his characteristics are just supposed to explain why he's so enamored with AJ and farm life in general, but it was so obsessive anyways it still felt a little weird.


One could argue (at least until he shows up in overalls at the end) that Trenderhoof was genuinely infatuated with AJ and was trying to engage her in conversations that would interest her. He never came off as really self centered, or even someone who thinks he's above anyone else. He was trying to get to know a girl he liked and like a smart guy tried to engage her in topics and activities that were of interest to her. Until the overalls bit at the end he wasn't even really trying to change who he was.
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:25 pm

I actually did love how this episode debunks the "AJ only likes to talk about apples" cliche the fandom always caters to. Also while she values and appreciates hard work she doesn't exactly love work or glamorize like Trenderhoof was doing.

So yeah the more I think about this episode, the more I like it.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:26 pm

Chaos Sonic wrote: :squintyjack: Dammit Rarity, casual racism is my job.

:trenderhoofsmilie: No, that's my job. You see, in my experiences as a travel writer, I've found that earth ponies are all like...
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:27 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:Yeah, that's something I thought was interesting, that Applejack was so put off by him. Beforehand I wondered if perhaps she'd have more of a "well, you're nice, but you're really not my type" attitude, but maybe she just isn't interested in romance at all.


Assuming she's into stallions at all.

I know Hasbro would never allow it, but it'd be interesting for her character if that were the case. Would be even cooler if she was attracted to mares but still wasn't interested in romance.
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:27 pm

The Doctor wrote:
One could argue (at least until he shows up in overalls at the end) that Trenderhoof was genuinely infatuated with AJ and was trying to engage her in conversations that would interest her. He never came off as really self centered, or even someone who thinks he's above anyone else. He was trying to get to know a girl he liked and like a smart guy tried to engage her in topics and activities that were of interest to her.


Trenderhoof kind of came off as a jerk with his casual earth pony stereotyping and unintentional insults, but in the end of the episode he just comes across as a somewhat well-meaning guy, who learned an important lesson.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:27 pm

The Outlander wrote:If she had transformed earlier, it would've been so cringeworthy to the point of being tiresome
...
Besides, the quality of the ending itself far made up for any pacing issues I had directly leading up to it.

-Rarity overreacts so much I don't think it would have felt out of place. :pinkieshrug:
-Was it really high-quality? I need to relisten/read the moral, but otherwise it was just Rarity mud jokes, Trend being maybe the most awkward in the episode (this is lampshaded), moral, end. The only great part of Act III was Orangejack vs. Cowgirlity, that's a sizable part of the Act but not a majority.

EDIT: Doctor, I think he was exactly that, due to his travels and writing. And that was kind of an interesting character... who really didn't go anywhere.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:29 pm

DerFurShur wrote:
Trenderhoof kind of came off as a jerk with his casual earth pony stereotyping and unintentional insults, but in the end of the episode he just comes across as a somewhat well-meaning guy, who learned an important lesson.

I definitely don't think he was trying to be mean, he was just obsessed with Applejack like Spike was obsessed with Rarity back in S1. While he's an adult and should know better, it's still a bit hard to fault someone too much for that sort of thing.
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Postby DaBatGuy (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:29 pm

Episode handled the forbidden S-word in the best way possible and the moral was perfect. That face-off at the end was like the LBYS dare scene x 10. It also seems like Spike is well aware that he has no chance with Rarity at this point but still acts like her lackey because friendship and... dragon code I guess. :pinkieshrug:

Also gotta love that meta commentary on "unappreciated" grey pony. :gotcha:
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Postby Wonkadoo (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:29 pm

The ending made no sense to me. It had nothing to do with the actual source of the conflict, which was never resolved. Rarity just abruptly decided not to care about Trenderhoof. She could have done this at literally any time, and it seemed the only reason it happened here was that the episode had played its biggest gag and it was now time for it to be over.
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Postby InC (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:31 pm

Wayoshi wrote:When I first saw the EW clip yesterday, I figured that was the end of Act II. Instead, it was the climax of the whole episode, coming pretty late also. I feel like that's a pacing problem, but it could be me expecting something else based off of the clip. :pinkieshrug: Regardless, the whole conclusion afterwards is a couple more Rarity fashion jokes, Trenderhoof learning, and the moral overlaid by the Days Festival. It kinda just... ends.


Yep, and it looks like a lot was indeed left on the cutting room floor:
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It might not have held too well as a whole for me, but it was still a good episode with a ton of great moments. "I really respect the work ethic of Earth Ponies". :nngh:
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:32 pm

Wayoshi wrote:-Rarity overreacts so much I don't think it would have felt out of place. :pinkieshrug:
-Was it really high-quality? I need to relisten/read the moral, but otherwise it was just Rarity mud jokes, Trend being maybe the most awkward in the episode (this is lampshaded), moral, end. The only great part of Act III was Orangejack vs. Cowgirlity, that's a sizable part of the Act but not a majority.

EDIT: Doctor, I think he was exactly that, due to his travels and writing. And that was kind of an interesting character... who really didn't go anywhere.


I really liked Applejack's "Because I know you!" and, yes, the moral.

If you're disappointed in Trenderhoof not getting enough screentime and backstory, I think it was a sacrifice they had to make to keep the spotlight on Rarity and AJ. If they hadn't then a lot of fans, myself included, would've been disappointed, regardless of how interesting it would've been to learn about Trenderhoof. Same thing has happened to one-shot characters before, like Cherry Jubilee.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:33 pm

I also like how Rarity ended up saying the exact same thing to Applejack without realising it. That part was just brilliant.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:34 pm

DerFurShur wrote:
Trenderhoof kind of came off as a jerk with his casual earth pony stereotyping and unintentional insults, but in the end of the episode he just comes across as a somewhat well-meaning guy, who learned an important lesson.


Who here has seen Deep Space Nine and was instantly reminded of Doctor Bashir offhandedly calling the Bajorans simple in front of Major Kira and getting a verbal beat down since Kira takes none of that shit.

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I really liked Applejack's "Because I know you!" and, yes, the moral.



I still love the continuity here that AJ knows her because AJ was her at one point. She tried the fancy life and knows it much better than Rarity knows country life.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:36 pm

Wonkadoo wrote:The ending made no sense to me. It had nothing to do with the actual source of the conflict, which was never resolved. Rarity just abruptly decided not to care about Trenderhoof. She could have done this at literally any time, and it seemed the only reason it happened here was that the episode had played its biggest gag and it was now time for it to be over.

It felt right to me. She realized that Trenderhoof didn't care about her and that trying to appeal to his tastes, at the expense of her own identity, was the wrong thing to do. She could have done that at any time if she were thinking rationally, but love does that sort of thing to people. While I agree with Josh Haber saying that it could've been better explained, I still think that the final product came out well.
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Postby HuffyTheMagicDragon (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:38 pm

Discord wrote:I'm pretty surprised they would put that scene as the spoiler clip, seeing as how it is the climax and highlight of the episode. Not particularly good selection.

Yeah, I was going to mention that. Great clip selection, guys. :rainbert: If their intention was to make me more reluctant to watch spoiler clips in the future, it worked.
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:40 pm

Wonkadoo wrote:The ending made no sense to me. It had nothing to do with the actual source of the conflict, which was never resolved. Rarity just abruptly decided not to care about Trenderhoof. She could have done this at literally any time, and it seemed the only reason it happened here was that the episode had played its biggest gag and it was now time for it to be over.


The reason it's supposed to work is because she adopted a new perspective. When she took a step back from the situation and looked at what she'd done, Trenderhoof didn't seem attractive anymore just by property of association. The moral teaches that she should be who she is naturally, and even though it's fine to make accommodations it's not fine to change who you are on a fundamental level for a shallow goal.

Also, what Fizzbuzz said. She can plead insanity due to being lovestruck. Insanity, excitement, and getting caught-in-the-moment are common themes in this show, and I feel people are too quick to judge moments like that as OOC.
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:41 pm

Wonkadoo wrote:The ending made no sense to me. It had nothing to do with the actual source of the conflict, which was never resolved. Rarity just abruptly decided not to care about Trenderhoof. She could have done this at literally any time, and it seemed the only reason it happened here was that the episode had played its biggest gag and it was now time for it to be over.


Well she decided to stop caring at the moment because it finally became clear to her how ridiculous she was being in changing her entire personality just to try and impress him.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:45 pm

The ending was OK narrative-wise, it was just very unambitious.

The whole narrative was really unambitious, which is why I was so :nngh: when we fully heard about it. It's nice Tabitha helped prop it up, and Orangejack vs. Cowgirlity was great, but otherwise... :pinkieshrug:

Now, you can say Castle Mane-ia is pretty unambitious narrative-wise too, but that had bunches and bunches of great character moments. This doesn't really cover up its stock plot, and I don't like this stock plot, so welp, yeah. :pinkieshrug:
Wayoshi
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:48 pm

Wayoshi wrote:The ending was OK narrative-wise, it was just very unambitious.

The whole narrative was really unambitious, which is why I was so :nngh: when we fully heard about it. It's nice Tabitha helped prop it up, and Orangejack vs. Cowgirlity was great, but otherwise... :pinkieshrug:

Now, you can say Castle Mane-ia is pretty unambitious narrative-wise too, but that had bunches and bunches of great character moments. This doesn't really cover up its stock plot, and I don't like this stock plot, so welp, yeah. :pinkieshrug:


We've had loads of ambitious, frenetic, near movie-quality episodes this season. I think some people prefer episodes like Simple Ways, so I'm fine with them making it, and it's definitely enjoyable in its own, simple way. :-P

EDIT: Also try to avoid fan-opinions and preview clips before watching the next couple of episodes if you're getting a bit disgruntled. Seems to help a lot of members around here with enjoying less stellar episodes.
Last edited by The Outlander on Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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