S04E16: It Ain't Easy Being Breezies

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Re: S04E16: It Ain't Easy Being Breezies

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:54 pm

I knew of the Flash Sentry one but people actually got upset over Pinkie in Filli Vanilli? How the hell does that happen? :fluttersmith:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:03 pm

Well, we had some negative reactions here about it too. You can be sure that if one of our episode threads has people saying " :ponder: Hmm, yes, this particular piece of characterization didn't do it for me", Twitter will be full of people going "AAAA BURN IN HELL BESMIRCHER OF THE PURE :twonk: "
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:09 pm

Isn't that something that happens in any fandom? Getting that publicly upset over a TV show (or any other piece of media) is always a problem, but I don't think it's necessarily endemic to us. At least not to where we're "the worst fandom of all time" because of it.
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Postby Kitsune (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:12 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:I knew of the Flash Sentry one but people actually got upset over Pinkie in Filli Vanilli? How the hell does that happen? :fluttersmith:


It probably belongs in the other thread, but yeah, a lot of people thought Pinkie's behavior in Filli Vanilli went over a few lines. Even I got upset at some of the stuff she said.

If you're gonna reply, please do it in the episode's thread, though :-I
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:12 pm

I don't think any fandoms are the worst, to tell you the truth. All of them seem to get all hyped up over tiny problems...it's like what they do. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Wildfire (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:15 pm

Tears[/url[quote="[url=http://www.roundstable.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=577028#p577028]Passport Clean wrote:Levinger is getting twitter hate for this one. Send her some love if you can.


Three backlashes in six weeks, this is the worst fandom of all time.[/quote]

:-/
I am really starting to get pissed at all of these idiots. When EqD first posted the episode preview, half of the comments were hate ones. And the show hadn't even aired. That, Flash, OC, and alicorn hate, double standards, it's ruining this fandom. I think it's time others in the fanbase said ENOUGH of it, lest we fully become Sonic fanbase 2.0.
/ :rant:
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Postby Venusy (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:16 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:Isn't that something that happens in any fandom? Getting that publicly upset over a TV show (or any other piece of media) is always a problem, but I don't think it's necessarily endemic to us. At least not to where we're "the worst fandom of all time" because of it.
It is true that it's more common in every fandom now, but it's a relatively unprecedented level of contact and influence. At one time, fans could only get in touch with staff at conventions. Then came bulletin boards and newsgroups. Then public email addresses. Now expressing your opinion is as simple as sending a tweet.

Are we the worst fandom? Probably not, I can't say that the obsessive fans have scared off some of the actors, unlike some fandoms (Tiny Toons, Supernatural, Twilight), and I don't know how you'd objectively judge what the worst is. Doesn't mean we don't have a lot of problems though. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby DaBatGuy (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:25 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:I don't think any fandoms are the worst, to tell you the truth. All of them seem to get all hyped up over tiny problems...it's like what they do. :pinkieshrug:


It still doesn't justify the actions of the brony fandom. None of the MLP staff came on to the series expecting the vitriol associated with the comic book/video game industry.
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Postby Mordja (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:37 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:I don't think any fandoms are the worst, to tell you the truth. All of them seem to get all hyped up over tiny problems...it's like what they do. :pinkieshrug:

I think part of it is that the MLP fandom is one of the first major ones that got its start well within the age of social media, a world where everyone thinks they need to be heard and by Jove they will be heard! :argh:

Oh my god.

I am old. :flutterdear:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:45 pm

Fans can be good, fanbases as A whole are horrible online. Specially anime fans & gamers. :-/ *and more hardcore sonic fans & bronies are pretty cray-cray as well!*


But thats just my 2 cents.
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Postby Tears (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:48 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:Isn't that something that happens in any fandom? Getting that publicly upset over a TV show (or any other piece of media) is always a problem, but I don't think it's necessarily endemic to us. At least not to where we're "the worst fandom of all time" because of it.


It's worse to me because we are not, never were, and shouldn't be the target of the show, and the from what I understand the Breezies furore is that they're making the show too kiddy.

All fandoms are whiny and entitled, but a bunch of adults yelling at writers of a tv show aimed at little girls going "stop making it kiddy, do it how we like it" crosses done kind of rubicon for me that Sonic fans getting mad about Sonic doesn't. I think the influence of the fandom on the show is predominantly malign at this point.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:54 pm

Aw, there's no need to be that pessimistic, Tears. I still think that there's a lot of good that has and is yet to come out of this fandom.
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Postby Applepie (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:58 pm

Then came bulletin boards and newsgroups. Then public email addresses.


Those memories of having a dial up modem for off topic.

Pinkie in Filli Vanilli


And now we got another february/march fan drama.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:18 pm

@Tears Agreed, people bashing a show made to sell toys to little girls/kids for being too cute is pretty stupid.
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Postby Passport Clean (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:21 pm

My opinion of the fandom is probably well known at this point and not worth rehashing.

:-D But I'm not going to blow my top this time like I did over the Vanilli incident because I've realized I found something genuinely wonderful and positive to keep me clean in this latest "fandom-ending" shitstorm.

I realized just now, unexpectedly, after three and a half seasons and in the middle of the most innocuous sort of episode, I've found MY character - The one who represents me best, for better and worse, a well-meaning but intemperate foul-mouthed asshole trying to learn how to interact positively with a group he has a difficult relationship with.

Just like that, I've become Sea Breeze's #1 fan. :shenanigans:

Thank you Levinger.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:31 pm

Sea Breeze is BEST BREEZIE!!!
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I hope we see A Flutes/SeaBreeze Friends Forever comic someday!
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:35 pm

This show's fandom isnt the worst out there... ive seen much much worse. (Case in point the fandom for Animal Crossing :-/ )
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Postby ThunderBunny (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:36 pm

Passport Clean wrote:
I realized just now, unexpectedly, after three and a half seasons and in the middle of the most innocuous sort of episode, I've found MY character - The one who represents me best, for better and worse, a well-meaning but intemperate foul-mouthed asshole trying to learn how to interact positively with a group he has a difficult relationship with.

Just like that, I've become Sea Breeze's #1 fan. :shenanigans: .


Idk why, but I find that rather delightful. I send double-pone cider hugs to you, person with whom I've never interacted! :flimflam:

As far as this episode goes, I didn't have a particularly strong reaction to it either way. I liked it well enough with no overwhelming complaints. I didn't ADORE the breezies, but I liked them just fine, and I thought the mane six transformation at the end was a reasonable and interesting enough turn of events. Re: the comments questioning how adding just six more breezies would help anything, other than the bird analogies that people have already pointed out, I'd also say that there weren't that many breezies in the group, so that just six more was bulking up their numbers by like 40%, and that's actually fairly substantial. Maybe I'm just easily sold on pony logic. :spoiler:

I also liked both of the morals they delivered (I have several friends in animal rescue that need to watch this episode...), though I personally felt that neither message got quite the level of attention it deserved, since it had to share time with the other. On the other hand, maybe it was nice to get two lessons for the price of one.

Edit: Oh, and I really liked the gender ambiguity of the Breezies. Sea Breeze aside, even at the end when they were re-united with their families, it was hard to tell who was supposed to be what, and it made me happy.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:51 pm

I don't think the anger is "do it our way", it's "don't do it in the generic kiddy way, you're great at avoiding doing this, what happened."
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Postby Davyinatoga (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:06 pm

Imagine if hundreds of entitled jerks decided to curse out Jim Henson productions every time they ever did a scene with Ernie in the bathtub in the middle of the living room instead of the bathroom. :-I
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:07 pm

Davyinatoga wrote:Imagine if hundreds of entitled jerks decided to curse out Jim Henson productions every time they ever did a scene with Ernie in the bathtub in the middle of the living room instead of the bathroom. :-I



That would be hillarious, pathetic, but hillarious. :gotcha:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:08 pm

To be fair, we all know that Rubbie Duckie makes bathtime lots of fun, therefore Ernie's bath should be in the bathroom. How dare Jim Henson Productions make such a mistake! :applejargh:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:15 pm

welp, all this Rubber Duckie talk has got this song playing in my head now. :-P
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Postby Passport Clean (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:20 pm

ThunderBunny wrote:Idk why, but I find that rather delightful. I send double-pone cider hugs to you, person with whom I've never interacted!


Thank you. :hug: Just watch out, I'm a Single-Issue Wonk with several Berserk Buttons (both terms as defined by TVtropes.com).

Davyinatoga wrote:Imagine if hundreds of entitled jerks decided to curse out Jim Henson productions every time they ever did a scene with Ernie in the bathtub in the middle of the living room instead of the bathroom. :-I


Related thought:

http://www.toughpigs.com/the-elmo-gener ... ts-cranky/
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:40 pm

SoundMonkey44 wrote:Sea Breeze is BEST BREEZIE!!!
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I hope we see A Flutes/SeaBreeze Friends Forever comic someday!


Really, the Breezies were total assholes to poor Sea Breeze. We don't see him being harsh to everyone till they start sitting on their fairy flanks.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:42 pm

The Doctor wrote:Really, the Breezies were total assholes to poor Sea Breeze. We don't see him being harsh to everyone till they start sitting on their fairy flanks.

Well, his first intelligible line is:
:allears: And you speak my language too?
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Postby Frosthawk (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:43 pm

Wayoshi wrote:I don't think the anger is "do it our way", it's "don't do it in the generic kiddy way, you're great at avoiding doing this, what happened."


Still, though. If someone's anger is reaching a point that's not just "I didn't like this episode, not going to watch it again" but extends into "I need to tell this writer how much she sucks!" then they just need to fuck right off. :-/
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Postby Aramek (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:46 pm

Y'all ready for a laughably bad effortpost about why this episode was deep and awesome and Sea Breeze was a fantastic character?

(I'm at work, so, I can't link videos or images to make this more fun to look it.)

===

I'd mentioned my instant kinship with Sea Breeze's character with a shallow yet somehow pithy "I'm that. That character is me." earlier, but, now, thinking on it, I've finally figured out why I felt that way, and it is what has led me to appreciating this even more than I did the first time. SB showcased that one emotion, perhaps one of the truest emotions that is so hard to accurately portray (especially in this show) simultaneous outward and inward hate/resentment/fear/frustration. I say true emotion because it is perhaps the one that I understand the most, personally, so I'd like to think I'm good at spotting it, and boy howdy did I spot it here.

Firstly, the outward. SB is a frustrated leader, and it really shows. The others won't listen, and he's consistantly having to hammer home the right thing to do onto them, usually to no avail. And so, we see SB as the sailor-mouthed asshole. The "OH, YOU MUST BE SOOOO PROUD!" part where, as he sees it, the other breezies are being coddled or even supported because of their inability function. Like a "Yep, way to fuck everything up again, and you don't even care. You don't even care that you are dragging me down with you. There is something we HAVE to do, and you just...don't! You just don't do it! YOU CAN'T DO IT! AND THAT MIGHT EVEN BE FORGIVABLE, BUT THE WORST OF ALL IS THAT YOU THINK IT IS OKAY TO NOT BE ABLE TO FUNCTION! AUUUGGGHHH!" level of frustration. (This is extra hilarious because Drummond was Vegeta in the original Ocean dub. This is more weighty when you factor in both facets of SB's personality.) So, it is clear that he's super frustrated all the time being stuck with a bunch of wimps. Like, eternally being stuck in a school group project where nobody else does any work at all. That sucks. So, you'd expect him to be that much better than the rest of them, right? So much stronger, and more capable, and that's why he's so angry at the rest of them!

But he's not.

The inward hatred is where it truly comes together. SB hates his own weakness, his own...inability to do what every other creature can simply do without thinking: survive. The one SENTIMENT that did it for me above all others is the (I can't remember the exact wording) "PSSH, WHAT DO WE EVEN NEED THAT STUPID MAGIC FOR? WHY DO WE NEED MAGIC TO KEEP THE POLLEN SAFE ANYWAY!?" If SB was outwardly hostile to everything, we'd call it "Scrappy Doo Syndrome" or "Small Man's Disease" where, to cover up their own insecurity, the character feels the need to be overly aggressive all the time. But we only see this manifest towards himself and towards the breezies that he's leading. He resents his own weakness, his own inability to "do" that he's extra stern and "lashes out" towards the other breezies because he sees that they have accepted it. The one thing he hates the most about himself, he sees these other breezies just go "yep, we're weak in mind and body so, no sense in fighting it". He's angry and frustrated because he's fighting against his own invisible inner demons, and the lazy attitudes of all the other breezies only feed that demon. Seeing everyone else be so...unable, only makes him more frustrated and disappointed in himself. Like good old Vegeta being all "It's not fair! I'm supposed to be the best! I'm the prince of all sandwiches! Euuuuggggghhhhh!"

So, in the end, when he accepts Fluttershy's lesson on kindness and starts to use positive firmness, it is representative of, perhaps not him accepting his limitations, but, instead, helping the other breezies to want to fight against theirs. And, for the mission (getting home) that was just enough push to do it. SB believes in himself, and, now, he wants to make everyone else believe in themselves too. Instead of just giving up on them, seeint them as lost causes, and bossing them around, he's grown into what it really means to be a leader, not just a boss.

And that's why Sea Breeze is the best character.
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Your MRI results have shown total infection to now be approximately one fifth of the full mass of the tissue.

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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:48 pm

Sure, but any disappointment (let's take appropriate levels of anger or not out of this) is more justified for the latter reason than the former.

I said before the ep that how the Breezies were integrated into Equestria would be a decent component of how this episode turns out. It ended up being a mixed bag, with some negatives that are worth legitimately griping about. That in turn did make the episode a mixed bag. You can correctly argue it's both a strong and weak episode.

Preview edit: Aramek longpost! How about Flitter talking, Aramek? :allears:
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Postby Aramek (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:53 pm

Wayoshi wrote:Preview edit: Aramek longpost! How about Flitter talking, Aramek? :allears:

She's almost as cool as her sister. :hug: They are both adorable.

I did like the "Flap lighter!" "I can't!" part because, they were airborn. So, I can easily see the "Look, if we flap any lighter, we're going to drop, we literally cannot flap less and maintain our altitude with our mass." angle. Worldbuilding rules.

Also I liked that male pony. :awesomedash: He was handsome and cool and had a good voice.
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Your MRI results have shown total infection to now be approximately one fifth of the full mass of the tissue.

"So you're saying..."

Your brain is about 20% tumor.
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Postby Mordja (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:56 pm

Aramek, all I got from that post is that you think you should be El Presidente. :gotcha:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:59 pm

Man, you really make some excellent points there, Aramek...you should be a professional writer.
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Postby Aramek (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:00 pm

I empathize with the little guy. A lot. A lot, a lot. :fluttersmith:

One thing in the episode that made me melt into cutsey gibberish is when Twilight said "Presenting, THE BREEZIES!" Like, how she went all high pitched on BREEZIES is so fucking cute. Like, too cute. Shiba Inu level of cute. Damn it Twilight, stop suddenly saying something utteraly adorable. She even gestured with her noodle hoof as she went high pitched.

:ponydrugs:
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Your MRI results have shown total infection to now be approximately one fifth of the full mass of the tissue.

"So you're saying..."

Your brain is about 20% tumor.
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:19 pm

Rainbow Crash wrote:Yeah, this is the biggest criticism of the episode that I don't understand.

I think with all we've seen in the show regarding ponies asserting control over nature that it's safe to assume that the breezies did indeed die a lot on their journey before ponies decided to help. The birds in Equestria need a pegasus to guide them back north after winter is over, for goodness sake! Is the breezies' situation that much different? Ponies are integral to the workings of nature. That's just how this fantasy world works.


Moreover, it could be seen as "paying back".

We're talking about a world that depends on two alicorns to keep the celestial bodies in motion, ponies working hard to replace many of the normal animal-level instincts, and the only "natural" area in Equestria is basically a wild magic zone (the Everfree). Rather magical ponies.

Magic has a price. Perhaps the price in their case is maintaining the very natural cycles the pony race disrupted in being created.

ROBOT B9 wrote:
Ah, but those were butterfly wings. I don't know if that counts as a real alicorn. :v:


If you count the comics, it made her a Good Changeling Queen.
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Postby die Fledermaus (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:37 pm

Aramek wrote:Y'all ready for a laughably bad effortpost about why this episode was deep and awesome and Sea Breeze was a fantastic character?

(I'm at work, so, I can't link videos or images to make this more fun to look it.)

===

I'd mentioned my instant kinship with Sea Breeze's character with a shallow yet somehow pithy "I'm that. That character is me." earlier, but, now, thinking on it, I've finally figured out why I felt that way, and it is what has led me to appreciating this even more than I did the first time. SB showcased that one emotion, perhaps one of the truest emotions that is so hard to accurately portray (especially in this show) simultaneous outward and inward hate/resentment/fear/frustration. I say true emotion because it is perhaps the one that I understand the most, personally, so I'd like to think I'm good at spotting it, and boy howdy did I spot it here.

Firstly, the outward. SB is a frustrated leader, and it really shows. The others won't listen, and he's consistantly having to hammer home the right thing to do onto them, usually to no avail. And so, we see SB as the sailor-mouthed asshole. The "OH, YOU MUST BE SOOOO PROUD!" part where, as he sees it, the other breezies are being coddled or even supported because of their inability function. Like a "Yep, way to fuck everything up again, and you don't even care. You don't even care that you are dragging me down with you. There is something we HAVE to do, and you just...don't! You just don't do it! YOU CAN'T DO IT! AND THAT MIGHT EVEN BE FORGIVABLE, BUT THE WORST OF ALL IS THAT YOU THINK IT IS OKAY TO NOT BE ABLE TO FUNCTION! AUUUGGGHHH!" level of frustration. (This is extra hilarious because Drummond was Vegeta in the original Ocean dub. This is more weighty when you factor in both facets of SB's personality.) So, it is clear that he's super frustrated all the time being stuck with a bunch of wimps. Like, eternally being stuck in a school group project where nobody else does any work at all. That sucks. So, you'd expect him to be that much better than the rest of them, right? So much stronger, and more capable, and that's why he's so angry at the rest of them!

But he's not.

The inward hatred is where it truly comes together. SB hates his own weakness, his own...inability to do what every other creature can simply do without thinking: survive. The one SENTIMENT that did it for me above all others is the (I can't remember the exact wording) "PSSH, WHAT DO WE EVEN NEED THAT STUPID MAGIC FOR? WHY DO WE NEED MAGIC TO KEEP THE POLLEN SAFE ANYWAY!?" If SB was outwardly hostile to everything, we'd call it "Scrappy Doo Syndrome" or "Small Man's Disease" where, to cover up their own insecurity, the character feels the need to be overly aggressive all the time. But we only see this manifest towards himself and towards the breezies that he's leading. He resents his own weakness, his own inability to "do" that he's extra stern and "lashes out" towards the other breezies because he sees that they have accepted it. The one thing he hates the most about himself, he sees these other breezies just go "yep, we're weak in mind and body so, no sense in fighting it". He's angry and frustrated because he's fighting against his own invisible inner demons, and the lazy attitudes of all the other breezies only feed that demon. Seeing everyone else be so...unable, only makes him more frustrated and disappointed in himself. Like good old Vegeta being all "It's not fair! I'm supposed to be the best! I'm the prince of all sandwiches! Euuuuggggghhhhh!"

So, in the end, when he accepts Fluttershy's lesson on kindness and starts to use positive firmness, it is representative of, perhaps not him accepting his limitations, but, instead, helping the other breezies to want to fight against theirs. And, for the mission (getting home) that was just enough push to do it. SB believes in himself, and, now, he wants to make everyone else believe in themselves too. Instead of just giving up on them, seeint them as lost causes, and bossing them around, he's grown into what it really means to be a leader, not just a boss.

And that's why Sea Breeze is the best character.


The best post :allears:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:40 pm

Frosthawk wrote:
Still, though. If someone's anger is reaching a point that's not just "I didn't like this episode, not going to watch it again" but extends into "I need to tell this writer how much she sucks!" then they just need to fuck right off. :-/



^. This, 1000x this!! :awesomedash:
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Postby Wylie (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:44 pm

Aramek wrote:I empathize with the little guy. A lot. A lot, a lot. :fluttersmith:

One thing in the episode that made me melt into cutsey gibberish is when Twilight said "Presenting, THE BREEZIES!" Like, how she went all high pitched on BREEZIES is so fucking cute. Like, too cute. Shiba Inu level of cute. Damn it Twilight, stop suddenly saying something utteraly adorable. She even gestured with her noodle hoof as she went high pitched.

:ponydrugs:


And Twilight needed a full stack of note cards to say a grand total of, I think, 7 words. Never change, Purple Smart. :-I
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Postby die Fledermaus (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:47 pm

Frosthawk wrote:
Still, though. If someone's anger is reaching a point that's not just "I didn't like this episode, not going to watch it again" but extends into "I need to tell this writer how much she sucks!" then they just need to fuck right off. :-/


This is also the best post.

This fandom has to be one of the most entitled ones out there.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:52 pm

And this is why Merriwether Williams doesn't have a twitter account :-I
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:02 pm

shotgunbadger wrote:
This is also the best post.

This fandom has to be one of the most entitled ones out there.



Maybe in the realm of U.S.cartoons, but Anime fans & comic book geeks are just as bad at insulting & threatening talent. Hell I'm still disgusted by the fact Dan Slott has gotten death threats for his Spider-Man comics. :facehoof:
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