S04E21: Leap of Faith

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Re: S04E21: Leap of Faith

Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:43 pm

Dexanth wrote:This episode -really- played up the Mane-6 patterned objects. They're littering the background everywhere in this episode. I imagine there's a point to it - likely a toy tie-in - but the sudden presence of them everywhere seemed a bit odd. Previously it's been somewhat more muted.

By my count so far:

-The flag
-The tiny pan Granny kamikazed into before AJ pulled off a cartoonish save
-The little bobby things in the pool (which I just noticed when you made this a complaint, and I thought two things wasn't so bad)

Anything else?

EDIT: Star Platinum - I bought it since it's family-related and Granny was showing a side that was new to everyone else in the family, and I'm sure AJ was interested in keeping that going as well. "Make family member sad" is a legitimate blackmailing tactic on AJ.

By the way, I have and always am trying to primarily judge episodes on how well the target audience gets the message. That's why I maintain Breezies is still decent, it did that part pretty well. It's a critical part of the show because it's what ultimately makes this show so unique. In this case, before the ep, I was feeling like FF losing some of their uniqueness as characters would be a shame and might lead to some boring shenanigans that would ultimately hamper the episode. But that ended up being made up by their core manipulative natures being fleshed out more that led to a fairly interesting take on the placebo effect stock plot.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:47 pm

I didn't notice any of them until people started pointing them out in the thread. With that in mind, I don't really think it's a problem.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:21 am

shotgunbadger wrote:I kinda am with Doctor in being a little bummed that Flim and Flam went from being like, genuinely more advanced and legitimate inventors who were just kinda dicks to being more to the side of con men


See here's the thing about Flim and Flam. They're not inventors, or businessmen. Or at least they're not primarily those things. What they are most of all, above everything, is salesmen. They even sung about it!

:flimflam: Traveling salesponies nonpareil...

Flim and Flam don't want to modernize the apple-harvesting industry in Equestria, they want to sell shit, and if they have a skeptical audience that's when they roll up their sleeves and really get to work. They want to haggle. They want to wheel & deal. They love the challenge.

Sometimes they might actually be selling a good product or service, as the SSCS6K arguably was. Sometimes it's all snake oil. But it's all about the deal.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:23 am

Exactly. That's opportunity...

If they can make a bit selling faster-made cider, they'll do that. And if they can make a bit selling apple juice and beet leaves with a slick label, then they'll do that too. It's all about what the tides of fortune bring them, in the form of a fickle populace with cash to burn on whatever's new and enticing.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:38 am

They didn't introduce themselves as "traveling inventors nonpareil" or "traveling cider-makers nonpareil." Every time we see Flim & Flam they should be hawking something different, just like in this episode.

EDIT: Also, their names are the FLIM FLAM BROTHERS
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:58 am

It would have been cooler / more :ponydrugs: though if they were making legit apple things. :pinkieshrug:

They have a sleazy nature, but they were never shown to be con men in Squeezy 6000.
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Postby die Fledermaus (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:10 am

PictishBeast wrote:
See here's the thing about Flim and Flam. They're not inventors, or businessmen. Or at least they're not primarily those things. What they are most of all, above everything, is salesmen. They even sung about it!

:flimflam: Traveling salesponies nonpareil...

Flim and Flam don't want to modernize the apple-harvesting industry in Equestria, they want to sell shit, and if they have a skeptical audience that's when they roll up their sleeves and really get to work. They want to haggle. They want to wheel & deal. They love the challenge.

Sometimes they might actually be selling a good product or service, as the SSCS6K arguably was. Sometimes it's all snake oil. But it's all about the deal.


Oh don't get me wrong it wasn't some GREAT BETRAYAL OF CHARACTER or something, but at the very least to me it seemed, while their focus was always money, they did have a superior product, and the core 'antagonism' of them was the fact that even if they did make a quality product much faster and easier, they were kinda dicks about it because money was their first goal. Shifting from that to pure apple juice and beet leaf miracle cure felt like a step back, but it was still something that felt fitting for them.

Yea, like you said, their main focus was always money, I just kinda liked when that focus was combined with other talent I guess?
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:25 am

PictishBeast wrote:
EDIT: Also, their names are the FLIM FLAM BROTHERS


Which made for a wonderful subversion in SSCS6000 when it turned out they weren't con men, just businessmen. In the end, AJ only "beat them" by exploiting their overconfidence.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:26 am

You know, this discussion really occurs to me that I just don't give a crap about character consistency between episodes. :-I
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:05 am

Pretty sure they were always commen, they just had a better product to pawn the first time around, so they didn't have to resort to as down low tactics.

I would say there character is still consistent, people may not like it, but meh.

But yea as others have mentioned they are the FLIM FLAM BROTHERS! Their goal is to make a quick buck any way they can. I doubt that will ever change.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:21 am

The Doctor wrote:
Which made for a wonderful subversion in SSCS6000 when it turned out they weren't con men, just businessmen. In the end, AJ only "beat them" by exploiting their overconfidence.

Legitimate businessmen don't stake the future of their (probably patent pending!) inventions and business models on a showy bet, and if they kick families out of their homes and steal their livelihoods while laughing nefariously, I'd say the difference is moot.
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Postby Perpetual Lurker (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:24 am

And they also don't use don't knowingly serve an inferior product in place of their own high quality product just to make a quick buck.
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Postby reidransom (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:58 am

Man, ponies are fucking gullible.

e: decent episode.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:02 am

SlateSlabrock wrote:Legitimate businessmen don't stake the future of their (probably patent pending!) inventions and business models on a showy bet, and if they kick families out of their homes and steal their livelihoods while laughing nefariously, I'd say the difference is moot.


GOOD businessmen don't stake the future of their (probably patent pending!) inventions and business models on a showy bet. :v:
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Postby Chaos Sonic (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:10 am

Hell, we don't even know that it's their invention in the first place. :pinkieshrug:

Aramek wrote:Sweet sassy molassy I love Flim and Flam. This was all amazing. And got to actually see it on the Hub on a television.

Someone in IRC called this episode's song Aramek: The Song. :lol:
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Postby Mordja (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:34 am

Seriously, all this Flim and Flam talk, their names are Flim and Flam and they wear boaters.

Come on!
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Postby die Fledermaus (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:37 am

reidransom wrote:Man, ponies are fucking gullible.

e: decent episode.

I love so much that they literally fell for the same song and dance bit.

Nightmare Moon should have set her takeover to a jaunty tune.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:49 am

I just realized something....in the cold op where Granny Smith mentions she couldn't even look at water for years after her high dive incident....does that mean she went years without bathing? :granny:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:19 am

I found it odd and a little bit distracting how Apple Bloom kept starting out sentences with "Boy!"

:granny: Now youngin', ain't no call to use language like that.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:23 am

Well boy howdy is an old southern term, so...yeah I got nothin. :-P :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:27 am

Apple Bloom is boy crazy :anticipation:

*Mr. Big banned for shipping*
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:17 am

I really liked this Lyra bit.

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If they'd made it Derpy or someone I'd have been all "goddamnit pony show" :-/ but at the same time if they'd made it some generic pony it would have only been a generic joke (the "tough judge"). Somehow Lyra was at the perfect level of "hey I know who that is" to make the joke into a character joke.

Also, ponies writing is sooooo cuuuuuuute :awesomedash:
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Postby Angel Beat (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:30 am

^ Straight from the horsie's mouth, as it were. :twiright:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:36 am

I'm definitely in the camp that thinks Flim and Flam are conmen.

Also, is it just me or did their wagon setup remind anyone else of Professor Marvel from The Wizard Of Oz?
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Postby Venusy (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:17 am

Yeah, trying to scam the Apples out of Sweet Apple Acres wasn't good practice, they could have struck up a fair licensing agreement if they weren't trying to get all the apples for free.

More than that, they did not appear to care about sustainable farming techniques. If they'd succeeded, their business model would appear to have been "drain the town of apples, make a lot of money from cider sales, leave before anyone realizes there aren't enough left for the winter" (or "keep a small stash, sell them at inflated prices").
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:45 am

ImageImage ImageImage Image

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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:48 am

We need those "Oh crap" expressions in our smiley list.
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Postby Chaos Sonic (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:17 am

Your images are all broken, Slate. :-I
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:20 am

Looks fine to me!

...but they were loading really slowly, so maybe Dreamhost has a tummyache.
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Postby Amethyst_Gem (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:55 am

Headless Horse wrote:I think part of why I'm generally so bullish on the show this season in particular (I always feel like I'm boosting for it even when the general tide of opinion is "Eehhh :pinkieshrug: ") is that I'm always trying to think of it from a kid's perspective.

I whole-heartedly agree with this, and your further elaboration on the matter. :crack:
Sometimes its more rewarding to put away all the extra layers of complications and expectations that we develop as adults, and to simply enjoy a work for what it is, especially when doing so can allow the inner child in us smile. :allears:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:21 pm

PictishBeast wrote:
Also, ponies writing is sooooo cuuuuuuute :awesomedash:
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:32 pm

I see scenes like these:
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and I wonder. What are you doing, pony? What do you intend to do with your catch?
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:44 pm

Why, isn't it obvious? They're going to take a picture with the fish and then throw them back into the water safe and sound.
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Postby Wylie (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:48 pm

Rarity's dad is taking some worms swimming. Big Mac is picking them back up by throwing their house into the water and letting them climb back in. :allears:

Fish have nothing to do with any of this process.
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:49 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Why, isn't it obvious? They're going to take a picture with the fish and then throw them back into the water safe and sound.


Yup, fishing for sport is very common in real life, actually. For all we know, they use specialized hooks that are designed to hurt the fish as little as possible just so they can have a relaxing day by the water with the occasional exciting bite. :allears:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:51 pm

They're going to sell them to Fluttershy for ferret food. :-I
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:52 pm

Well, something appreciated Big Macintosh' bait (could have been Granny, but she'd have to move fast underwater to do it).
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(And it is entirely possible that there are vegetarian sport fishermen, though I'd hazard that they are a rare breed).
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:56 pm

Wait, I think I get it. He's feeding something down there! They probably go there all the time, so in exchange for swimming around and probably messing the ecosystem up a bit, they toss some stuff in for them to eat.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:59 pm

They were Fishing for Seaponies! :v:

:eyebrow: we've been over this Big Mac, Sea Ponies only live in the ocean, the fresh water lake pony is just a myth!

:eenope: Nope!

:hilarious: So you actually think you'll catch one!?

:eeyup: Eeyup!
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Postby fenster (?) » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:18 pm

SoundMonkey44 wrote:They were Fishing for Seaponies! :v:



Or is it Aquaponies, now? :ponder:

Technically they can't be Seaponies since it looks like a river/lake.
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