S04E20: For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils

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Re: S04E20: For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils

Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:48 pm

The Doctor wrote:.

:ponder: And why would the play have been watched by nothing but adults and none of the school kids...


Spike and Snips and Snails were there so I'm sure other kids were too
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:49 pm

It was kind of weird seeing Sweeite Belle trying to move during the ghost of fashion future scene, her hooves were like sticky gum on the ground.

Overall, :cooliebelle: episode and they are the best sisters. :vogue:
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Postby Snow Drift (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:49 pm

It might be me, but I get the feeling that Luna takes her dreamwalking duties very seriously. She could very well be incredibly silly rambunctious and wahtnot as we've seen in the comic, but patroling the dreaming? Thats something that is totally hers and she treats it with the gravity it deserves.
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Postby The Falcon (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:50 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:I was actually quite pleased with Luna's characterization in this episode. Not only would Wacky Awkward Luna have taken away from the generally serious tone of this story, it also would've felt strange considering how long it's been since Luna Eclipsed. The way she was here was a very fine middle ground between that and the Mopey Crybaby Luna that we've seen a few times.


I agree, Luna was used very well in this episode. The parallel between her and Sweetie Bell being outshone by their respective Sisters was a pretty ingenious connective tissue between the two characters I have to say. And I love the little throwaway, character building lines Polsky has been throwing in. Sweetie Bell being primarily into Show Tunes is a nice little character detail that fits with the way she's been portrayed, and just ads to her dimensionality as a character. The dream sequences were also really well done, I love it when the animators get to go crazy.

And so this episode continues to cement my love of CMC episodes! This is one of my favorites of the season for sure.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:53 pm

We do need to see more detail on Celestia/Luna's background, not just as pony princesses, but as sisters. It would have been cool for Luna to tell Sweetie, "I let jealousy towards my sister take control of me, and it cost me everything." Then have a shot of the moon, and a faint view of the Mare in the Moon shadow. :amazed: :unenthused:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:56 pm

kefkafloyd wrote:It was kind of weird seeing Sweeite Belle trying to move during the ghost of fashion future scene, her hooves were like sticky gum on the ground.

Overall, :cooliebelle: episode and they are the best sisters. :vogue:


:evil: Sweetie Belle is clearly a changeling.

:gotcha: Also the "Tell me lies" avatar tag was better.
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Postby InC (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:57 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:I was actually quite pleased with Luna's characterization in this episode. Not only would Wacky Awkward Luna have taken away from the generally serious tone of this story, it also would've felt strange considering how long it's been since Luna Eclipsed. The way she was here was a very fine middle ground between that and the Mopey Crybaby Luna that we've seen a few times.


I agree, Luna's characterization worked in the context of this particular episode although I do think it could have gained from Sweetie Belle having more of an active conversation with her instead of the passive exposition we got. Luna providing guidance to children during their dreams is a really neat piece of world and character building and she worked great for that here, but it would be nice to have something more. What I guess I'm saying is, we need a Celestia & Luna episode.
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:04 pm

Lots of sister based episodes this season. They even had to create Maude out of whole cloth. Not that I'm complaining.


:notgonnadoit: What about brother episodes?
:allright: We have a sister-in-law episode.
:notgonnadoit: Yeah, but-
:twasnothin: Sorry chum the brother quota for this show has already been filled.
:eeyup:
:notgonnadoit: Damnit, say something!

Oh and ...
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Goddamn i love these weird horses. :areyousure:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:07 pm

I've been liking all of these sister/family based episodes, though. They seem really nice, have provided great moments so far and are just adorable. :allears:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:08 pm

DerFurShur wrote:
Spike and Snips and Snails were there so I'm sure other kids were too

Actually, those three were the only ones I saw. Given how much effort the animators put into this episode, I don't think they would've missed Sweetie Belle talking about her friends in the script. (And of course, Dave Polsky had to write all those lines for the various background ponies, too.)
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:19 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:Actually, those three were the only ones I saw. Given how much effort the animators put into this episode, I don't think they would've missed Sweetie Belle talking about her friends in the script. (And of course, Dave Polsky had to write all those lines for the various background ponies, too.)


Didn't the CMC mention "All of our friends are going to be there," or something to that effect, early on the episode? Maybe I'm misremembering. :ponder:
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:21 pm

The Outlander wrote:Didn't the CMC mention "All of our friends are going to be there," or something to that effect, early on the episode?

The CMCs don't have friends :v:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:23 pm

Mr. Big wrote:The CMCs don't have friends :v:


Well, we know Apple Bloom threw Twist to the curve as soon as Twist got her Cutie Mark, and now it seems Sweetie Belle ditched all her friends at some point too.


:v: The CMC have been the anti-friends all the time!
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Postby MochaBean (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:24 pm

I kind of wish that they had created a teenage version of Rarity for Sweetie's birthday flashback. :smirk:
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:27 pm

The Doctor wrote:
Well, we know Apple Bloom threw Twist to the curve as soon as Twist got her Cutie Mark, and now it seems Sweetie Belle ditched all her friends at some point too.


:v: The CMC have been the anti-friends all the time!


S6E26 - The CMC complete their transformation into the Elements of Disharmony: Apples, Squeakiness, and Scooting, and it's up to the Mane Six to stop them before all the Friendship is Equestria is gone forever.

EDIT:

MochaBean wrote:I kind of wish that they had created a teenage version of Rarity for Sweetie's birthday flashback. :smirk:


Well, at least now we have a better grasp on Rarity's age. Assuming Sweetie Belle's 5th birthday party was 5-8 years ago, and seeing how Rarity didn't look any different, we have to assume she's in her late twenties in human terms at the least. This is backed up by her being canonized as, at the least, within a year of Cheerilee's age, who is likely to be in her late twenties considering appearance, demeanor, and profession, but would have to be over forty had she actually grown up in our 80s.
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Postby MochaBean (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:32 pm

The Doctor wrote:Well, we know Apple Bloom threw Twist to the curve as soon as Twist got her Cutie Mark, and now it seems Sweetie Belle ditched all her friends at some point too.

Going by the flashback, they were some pretty shitty friends. :amazed:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:37 pm

MochaBean wrote:Going by the flashback, they were some pretty shitty friends. :amazed:

Well, Sweetie Belle was also being a (very) tiny diva, so I doubt they're 100% to blame.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:39 pm

:speakest: And now, Sweetie Belle, you will see the rest of what happened at your 5th birthday party! *stomp*

:smirk: Nothing happened.

:unenthused: *stomp*

:amazed: What's wrong?

:unenthused: Stupid batteries.
:speakest: The fun has been doubled!
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Postby Perpetual Lurker (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:39 pm

Can I just say that I love how they created an adorable younger foal model just for one flashback? And then they proceeded to give the unnamed foals at the part distinct looks and even personalities (which can't be said for the majority of their current classmates). I especially liked the snarky one with the glasses. :allears:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:42 pm

The Outlander wrote:Well, at least now we have a better grasp on Rarity's age. Assuming Sweetie Belle's 5th birthday party was 5-8 years ago, and seeing how Rarity didn't look any different, we have to assume she's in her late twenties in human terms at the least. This is backed up by her being canonized as, at the least, within a year of Cheerilee's age, who is likely to be in her late twenties considering appearance, demeanor, and profession, but would have to be over forty had she actually grown up in our 80s.

I wouldn't put Rarity in her late twenties, per se. She could just be 24 or 25 or so. If Sweetie Belle is about 12 years old now, under my assumption that'd put Rarity at about 17 in the flashback, and a general lack of change (especially for a pony) between that age and now feels reasonable to me.
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:44 pm

But still, I do wonder if there were further scenes from the play that got cut out as the script was being edited.


Funny you should mention that. Tabitha gets credited with VA'ing Granny Smith and Nicole is credited for Celestia.

Neither one has a voice part in the episode. Heck, Celestia doesn't ever show up.

kefkafloyd wrote:It was kind of weird seeing Sweeite Belle trying to move during the ghost of fashion future scene, her hooves were like sticky gum on the ground.


Melted. Marshmallow.
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:45 pm

DerFurShur wrote:"Oh that's cherry"
"Oh that's cinnamon"

"IT'S ALL RED!"


Then Kefka smashes through the wall and explains how Cinnamon is D2691E and Cherry is DE3163 and they are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COLORS, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU :rage:
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Postby Perpetual Lurker (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:46 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:I wouldn't put Rarity in her late twenties, per se. She could just be 24 or 25 or so. If Sweetie Belle is about 12 years old now, under my assumption that'd put Rarity at about 17 in the flashback, and a general lack of change (especially for a pony) between that age and now feels reasonable to me.


Yeah, ponies don't seem to visibly age from their late teens til old age.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:46 pm

WandereringPony wrote:
Funny you should mention that. Tabitha gets credited with VA'ing Granny Smith and Nicole is credited for Celestia.

Neither one has a voice part in the episode. Heck, Celestia doesn't ever show up.


Granny Smith was at the play, but I don't remember if she said anything.

:rainbert: Princess Celestia certainly wasn't in this episode, though.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:48 pm

The sun was in the episode, right? Well, that means she's in it. :v:
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Postby fenster (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:49 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:I was actually quite pleased with Luna's characterization in this episode. Not only would Wacky Awkward Luna


To be honest, it isn't the awkwardness of Luna that I mind in her lost characterization, so much as her speech pattern also seemed to have disappeared. It's like, a super obvious thing but only Larson seemed to do it. It'd be like if Zecora lost her rhyming: she could still have the same character personality with being a sage like zebra, but details and traits like that really are important as well since they are part of character structure and stick out to people (Plinkett Test be damned).
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:51 pm

Luna's archaic speech and use of the Royal Canterlot Voice were also a symptom of her isolation from society, though. While I can understand that she might still slip into the old speech even these days, if she hadn't changed at all then I would've been disappointed.
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:58 pm

Is it just me or did non-dream Luna at the end sound a lot different than Dreamscape Luna?
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:01 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:Luna's archaic speech and use of the Royal Canterlot Voice were also a symptom of her isolation from society, though. While I can understand that she might still slip into the old speech even these days, if she hadn't changed at all then I would've been disappointed.


I like the comics where they kept the old school speech but she doesn't shout at everyone.

Except poor Kibitz. :gotcha:
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:02 pm

Well, it was daytime so she'd probably been up a long time.

:speakest: "So weary. Must sleep ... got a full moon to lift at sundown ..."
:unenthused: "Oh wait, there's that Sweetie Belle thing."
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:03 pm

  • :rariwhat: But alas, without this key hidden stitch, it's just a-- I'm trying to think of a nicer way to say, "big bummer."
  • Cracking up at Fluttershy's "abandon ship" head gesture to the others when Sweetie Belle storms in.
  • Rarity snores.
  • Another pun they've been sitting on for several seasons now:
    :ohboy: ...and then I went to the stairs to enter like the belle of the ball!
  • This isn't the first time the CMC have just boarded a train to who knows where without anyone raising an eyebrow.
  • Superstitious celebrities. Maybe a little too real.
  • Sweetie Belle confirmed for supervillain status:
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The Doctor wrote: :evil: Sweetie Belle is clearly a changeling.

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:amazed:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:04 pm

Sweetie Belle was obviously mimicking the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man in that second screenshot. :gotcha:
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:14 pm

I just meant that at the studio, Luna sounded un Tabitha (or should i say unLuna? like my husband thinks Tabitha forgot to Lunafy her voice?)
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:24 pm

I really don't get the Luna nitpicking. ... So what? She's a bit more mellow in the day, doesn't that make sense? With all the dolphins everywhere this episode, she has Sweetie set up from the beginning, so yes, she is Celestia-like here.
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Postby Minty (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:28 pm

I really like episodes that show Rarity's niceness.

And Rarity is 80. She lied about getting her cutie mark the same day as the others.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:28 pm

She was sounding especially "normal speaking voice" in her final scene. Luna seems different in pretty much every appearance, though.

In other news... dresses. :ohgawd:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:33 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:She was sounding especially "normal speaking voice" in her final scene. Luna seems different in pretty much every appearance, though.

In other news... dresses. :ohgawd:
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:gotcha: OK Fanartists. Today's goal is to draw a pony who has a front right leg long enough for that sleeve.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:37 pm

Honestly, This may be my Fav Sweetie Belle ep so far.
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Postby Minty (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:40 pm

I think we know where Spike is learning his manners:
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:allears:
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:40 pm

It just sounded like Luna had a different voice, sometimes it sounded Luna like, others it sounded more like Celestia's VA was at the riens.

Im also guessing this is the episode that "broke Tabitha" :pinkieshrug:
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