S04E20: For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils

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Re: S04E20: For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils

Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:50 pm

Niels Olof wrote:Sweetie Belle knows as well as we do the story behind Rarity acquiring her cutie mark: doing the dresses for a school play (also: gems).

So this was a rather blatant attempt of one-upping her sister by writing, directing, acting, and costuming a play at a real venue.

The CMC are not good at baby steps.


Well, as far as we know, they still don't know how to find their cutie marks, they still just think it's doing something great. Last we heard, in Cutie Mark Chronicles, while Rarity was trying to explain "Cutie Marks are about finding who you really are," Scootaloo was in disgust and ran off. So I feel they want to skip over anything that they feel finds who they are, and go straight to "Look what I can do!"
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:57 pm

Niels Olof wrote:The CMC are not good at baby steps.


kefkafloyd wrote:Well shit. I didn't think about it that way. :starity:


:nngh: I'll just have to try one hundred times as hard!

BBBBB-Z-Z-Z-Z--Z-Z-ZZZZzzz *THUMP*

:nngh: One thousand times harder!

zzzzzzzz *THUMP*
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Postby Angel Beat (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:00 pm

Scuderia Ferrarity wrote:


:nngh: I'll just have to try one hundred times as hard!

BBBBB-Z-Z-Z-Z--Z-Z-ZZZZzzz *THUMP*

:nngh: One thousand times harder!

zzzzzzzz *THUMP*

Now try hard, with a vengeance. :smirk:
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:05 pm

Angel Beat wrote:Now try hard, with a vengeance. :smirk:


It's a good day to try hard, isn't it? :-I
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:06 pm

Sure, you could explain without much problem why there's only adults at the play (Snips/Snails.... if they count, lol. Or perhaps Spike counted...), but it still makes more sense if a bunch of kids were also around. :pinkieshrug:

Re: Sweetie one-upping - probably unintentional, but interesting nonetheless.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:22 pm

Huh, I never thought of the one upping idea before and it really makes sense when you think about it.
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Postby Angel Beat (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:31 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
It's a good day to try hard, isn't it? :-I


Live free or try hard! :black101:
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Postby acksed (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:36 pm

Damn good episode, not least because of Luna mentoring through sweat-drenched terror. :-P
Sweetie's deliberate sabotaging because she felt overshadowed felt disproportionate to me. I thought, "You're being stupid, kid, stop being stupid." But do other siblings really do stuff like this?
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:38 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Huh, I never thought of the one upping idea before and it really makes sense when you think about it.

I kind of feel like that's a bit of a stretch, but admittedly Sweetie Belle did show how long she can hold a grudge by bringing up her fifth birthday party in this episode.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:39 pm

acksed wrote:Damn good episode, not least because of Luna mentoring through sweat-drenched terror. :-P
Sweetie's deliberate sabotaging because she felt overshadowed felt disproportionate to me. I thought, "You're being stupid, kid, stop being stupid." But do other siblings really do stuff like this?


Destroying the headdress did seem a bit too mean to me. But kids aren't too smart..

...especially the CMC. :v:
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:42 pm

acksed wrote:Damn good episode, not least because of Luna mentoring through sweat-drenched terror. :-P
Sweetie's deliberate sabotaging because she felt overshadowed felt disproportionate to me. I thought, "You're being stupid, kid, stop being stupid." But do other siblings really do stuff like this?


Yes.

As the older brother, I had to deal with this kind of behavior from my little brother all the time. He's angry and jealous and keeps score all the time, and it's only because he respects and admires me so much. He has conflicting emotions about loving me for who I am and trying to be better than me. We love each other very much and get along well, but sometimes deep-rooted things inside him created by what I perceive as minor slights and what he perceives as massive life-altering events well up and we fight and are unhappy for the day. We always come back together though, and I like to think our relationship is stronger because of it. :flutterunsmith:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:42 pm

If the CMC really are starting to grow into their teenage years now, I can understand why Sweetie Belle would act out like this. Emotions tend to start running high around that age, especially if you're (the sister of) someone like Rarity. :fluttersmith:
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:31 pm

The Outlander wrote:
Yes.

As the older brother, I had to deal with this kind of behavior from my little brother all the time. He's angry and jealous and keeps score all the time, and it's only because he respects and admires me so much. He has conflicting emotions about loving me for who I am and trying to be better than me. We love each other very much and get along well, but sometimes deep-rooted things inside him created by what I perceive as minor slights and what he perceives as massive life-altering events well up and we fight and are unhappy for the day. We always come back together though, and I like to think our relationship is stronger because of it. :flutterunsmith:


Yep, pretty much this for me. This is exactly why I prefer Rarity/Sweetie Belle over Applejack/Apple Bloom's relationship. I feel it's more relatable.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:40 pm

The Doctor wrote:
Destroying the headdress did seem a bit too mean to me. But kids aren't too smart..

...especially the CMC. :v:



The CMC are smart, but they are also young & pron to act more on emotion.

@Fizz: Well they still seem to be elementry school students given they still go to Cheerilee's School house, alrhough who knows maybe it doubles as an elementery & middle school. But yea I do agree they do kind of act like tweens/young teens at times now.
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Postby Perpetual Lurker (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:46 pm

The biggest indicator of their age is that Apple Bloom is just now allowed to stay home by herself and handle the chores. You wouldn't give that level of responsibility or autonomy to an elementary school student.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:57 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:I kind of feel like that's a bit of a stretch, but admittedly Sweetie Belle did show how long she can hold a grudge by bringing up her fifth birthday party in this episode.


I didn’t mean it as a sign of vindictiveness. Sweetie Belle adores her sister, and very much wants to be like her, while simultaneously resenting her (I have three older siblings, it can be complicated). So choosing to follow her sister’s hoofsteps towards greatness/cutie mark (being a true CMC, she of course focuses solely on the thing (the play)), while trying to outdo her, is testament to her relationship with her sister. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but the sooner Sweetie Belle realizes that she can move out of Rarity’s shadow rather than trying to outshine her, the happier she’ll be.
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Postby Venusy (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:01 pm

Perpetual Lurker wrote:The biggest indicator of their age is that Apple Bloom is just now allowed to stay home by herself and handle the chores. You wouldn't give that level of responsibility or autonomy to an elementary school student.
Different families, but I was definitely left home alone a few times at the age of 7 or 8 out of necessity. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:01 pm

Perpetual Lurker wrote:The biggest indicator of their age is that Apple Bloom is just now allowed to stay home by herself and handle the chores. You wouldn't give that level of responsibility or autonomy to an elementary school student.


Well depends on the family, I started staying Home Alone when I was in 5th grade, which yea, thats late elementary, but still.

Anyway yeah, nice to see the CMC growing up.
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Postby Pocket (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:34 pm

Wayoshi wrote:Image

Tears wrote:Image


Reference y/n :flutterdear:

I was thinking more of Katy Perry's "Dark Horse" video, but I don't think that was even out yet when this was being animated. So I'ma just assume it's based on Ancient Egypt themed visuals being a semi-common trope in pop music and they got lucky that one happened to come out recently.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:37 pm

Personally, I took it as a reference to Yul Brynner's outfit from The Ten Commandments. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:45 pm

Just noticed that, while all 6 ponies appear, Twilight doesn't speak (hence Tara Strong not being credited). Pinkie Pie doesn't have a line, too, although she's listed in the credits (Andrea Libman does speak for Fluttershy)
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:47 pm

That's happened sometimes in the past but I think that's the first time this season.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:55 pm

Several times. In "One Bad Apple", for example, Twilight, Fluttershy, Rainbow Dash, and Rarity all appear but have no dialogues.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:10 pm

Fluttershy may not have had many lines, but she spoke volumes with that frantic head toss...
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Postby Frith (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:45 pm

Mr. Big wrote:Just noticed that, while all 6 ponies appear, Twilight doesn't speak (hence Tara Strong not being credited). Pinkie Pie doesn't have a line, too, although she's listed in the credits (Andrea Libman does speak for Fluttershy)

Actually if I hear correctly Pinkie was one of the ponies who said "Huh?" when Sweetie Belle complained that Rarity's dresses were perfect.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:49 pm

Frith wrote:Actually if I hear correctly Pinkie was one of the ponies who said "Huh?" when Sweetie Belle complained that Rarity's dresses were perfect.


At the 6:30 mark, it's Applejack, Rainbow Dash, and Fluttershy

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Postby Frith (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:11 pm

I've now been listening to that same moment ten minutes and I still hear Pinkie's voice.

Or I just imagine that I hear her, that's also one possibility. :v:
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:18 pm

I hear a hint of Pinkie's voice there. :ponder:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:21 pm

That most definitely sounds like Pinkie. I think the animation folks might have goofed and put in Fluttershy.
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:24 pm

or maybe Andrea Libman used the wrong voice :v:
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:37 pm

Image
Sound editors might even have a library of little emotes like "huh?" or various kinds of laughter from each of the characters.

You only want to do 'full throated scream' once. :gotcha:


relistening to the episode, Luna and Rarity are waaay too similar. Like they really can't have a scene with them having a calm casual conversation.

Luckily Rarity being Rarity this probably won't happen. :gonkity:




:ohboy: :"Once I had a dream when I flew down your throat and grabbed your uvula!"
:starity: :"T-thank you for sharing that with me."
\/
Last edited by Just Scuds on Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby InC (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:45 pm

Rarity's sobbing at the beginning of the nightmare was also pulled from Castle Mane-ia, though that might have been because "Sweetie Belle slides down the mane of a crying, gigantic Rarity then falls down her throat after unsuccessfully attempting to grab onto her uvula" was not initially scripted. :-I
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:05 pm

The Doctor wrote:That most definitely sounds like Pinkie. I think the animation folks might have goofed and put in Fluttershy.

Maybe Fluttershy had originally been scripted for that, but she proved to be too quiet to be heard over Applejack and Rainbow Dash, so Andrea Libman decided to do it in Pinkie's voice instead. In that case, it's possible that the animators just didn't get the memo that they needed to put Pinkie Pie in that scene instead.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:08 pm

Scuderia Ferrarity wrote:


:ohboy: :"Once I had a dream when I flew down your throat and grabbed your uvula!"
:starity: :"T-thank you for sharing that with me."
\/

:smirk: Here comes the Attack on Titan fanart!
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Postby ThunderBunny (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:09 pm

I give that episode a resounding "Meh." :-/

I realize these are good lessons for kids and that a lot of kids / people can relate to some of the CMC's issues, but I pretty much never relate to them, and they usually just end up annoying me. I had a tremendous "overshadowed by my older sibling" complex until I was like 18, but never once did I try to sabotage my sibling or think that they were deliberately trying to outshine me--because I wasn't completely devoid of empathy and social intelligence, even when I was 5. IDK, for some reason I am WAAAAY too harsh on the CMCs. I guess, like I said, it's just that I don't relate to them and wouldn't have related to them even when I was a kid. I just can't understand why they resort to being jerks so easily.

That said, I love getting to see Rarity or Luna in just about anything, so it wasn't a total loss for me. And it was nice to see Sweetie Belle arrive at being able to see things from Rarity's point of view. The whole thing just wasn't terribly compelling for me, personally.
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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:12 pm

ThunderBunny wrote:I just can't understand why they resort to being jerks so easily.


Because they're kids. Kids can be stupid and jerky, because they don't know any better.
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Postby ThunderBunny (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:13 pm

I guess I just feel like the CMC are WAAAY too old to play the "I didn't know any better" card with some of the crap they pull. Like, sabotaging Rarity's hard work?? That is completely unacceptable for a kid that old. I don't know. I just don't get it.

Edit: I think it's because they often do things that seem deliberately mean-spirited and/or self-absorbed with NO thought for anyone else, vs. just accidentally blundering into some bad consequences. And I realize that some kids really are like that because they haven't learned any better yet. I just always refused to have anything to do with those kids, so I don't relate, and I don't like watching people be assholes, so the CMC episodes often fall flat for me. I realize this is not a popular opinion. :flutterunsmith:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:21 pm

How old do you think the CMC are? I mean, I never went on any sorts of adventures or got up to actual trouble like they do, but I also acknowledge that they're different kinds of people than I am or was.
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Postby ThunderBunny (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:23 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote: but I also acknowledge that they're different kinds of people than I am or was.


Yeah, and I think that's an important point. I do acknowledge it, but I have zero enjoyment for it. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:29 pm

I figure the CMC to be 8-10 years old.

I will agree with Thunderbunny that Sweetie Belle sabotaging Rarity's headdress felt a little too far over the line.
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