Equestria Timeline Project

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Re: Equestria Timeline Project

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 1:35 am

The Doctor wrote:I'd still say the fact that even Twilight doesn't know about the Kingdom's problems suggests it's a relatively new development in the land.

It could also be like Pinkie Pie said, that Griffonstone's fate was so tragic that no one wanted to write about it. Griffonstone is in a rather remote place and Equestria overall is not very well-known for sharing information and knowledge quickly, so I can see that being the truth. Hell, even the griffons who do get out of Griffonstone might be too proud to dare talk about their racial homeland.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 1:37 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:It could also be like Pinkie Pie said, that Griffonstone's fate was so tragic that no one wanted to write about it. Griffonstone is in a rather remote place and Equestria overall is not very well-known for sharing information and knowledge quickly, so I can see that being the truth. Hell, even the griffons who do get out of Griffonstone might be too proud to dare talk about their racial homeland.


Can only count on word not getting out for so long.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 1:38 am

The Doctor wrote:I'd still say the fact that even Twilight doesn't know about the Kingdom's problems suggests it's a relatively new development in the land.


Fizzbuzz wrote:It could also be like Pinkie Pie said, that Griffonstone's fate was so tragic that no one wanted to write about it. Griffonstone is in a rather remote place and Equestria overall is not very well-known for sharing information and knowledge quickly, so I can see that being the truth. Hell, even the griffons who do get out of Griffonstone might be too proud to dare talk about their racial homeland.


The Doctor wrote:
Can only count on word not getting out for so long.


Yeah, it seems like something as significant as a proud empire crumbling into a ruin couldn't be kept under wraps for all that long. I mean, surely folks visit the place from time to time? Even if you assume that the Griffons themselves are thick as thieves and don't want anyone to know how crappy their capital is, I have to assume a pony or two had gone for a visit at some point. I could buy 50 years ago or less.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 2:57 am

Yeah. I figured that Gilda's grandpa was supposed to have been around for the loss of the idol from how he talked. Gilda claimed it was all false, but she'd also clearly heard the story before, so I think that had more to do with Gilda's personality than it being lost history.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 6:37 am

It could also be that Griffonstone is isolated from the rest of Equestria. With no news or updates to come out of there, it's easy for Twilight to assume it's still the same.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 11:13 am

Right, I've plugged the two key events in. The fall I've put at XX BF, but between an ~18 BF event and an ~87 BF event. I think that's a pretty safe range.

The rise I've put a lot farther back; way back before the foundation of Equestria in fact. Something about the way those events are depicted, combined with Twilight's use of the word "ancient" suggests a time before Celestia and Luna to me. Could be totally wrong, but the lack of information makes it kind of moot anyway I suppose. I liked the Doc's suggestion that the scale of Griffonstone suggests fairly new city, but looking again, the city is built in such a way that I'm not sure they could expand much if they wanted to.

On a related note, can anyone recall any other instances of the word "ancient" being used to describe anything in the show?
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Postby Seven Seas (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 1:24 pm

I searched the transcripts on the FiM wiki, and here is A Comprehensive List of Things That Are Ancient:

Griffons

S05E08: :excite: "In ancient times, griffons were known to be as greedy as dragons, always hoarding their bits and other treasures."

The Castle of the Royal Pony Sisters
S01E02: :shock: "It is said that the last known location of the five elements was in the ancient Castle of the Royal Pony Sisters."

S04E03: :prettywings: "As you know, the ancient castle that I once shared with Princess Luna lies mostly in ruins deep in the Everfree Forest."

Mythological Beasts

S02E20: :twonk: "That's Cerberus! He's supposed to be guarding the gates of Tartarus. But if he's here, then all the ancient evil creatures that have been imprisoned there could escape and destroy Equestria!"

S04E22: "The pony running the ancient beasts stall doesn't want anything I've got. But if you can get me the Orthros, I'll trade you the book for it."

Um, The Wonderbolts

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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 11:41 pm

Seven Seas wrote:I searched the transcripts on the FiM wiki, and here is A Comprehensive List of Things That Are Ancient:

Griffons

S05E08: :excite: "In ancient times, griffons were known to be as greedy as dragons, always hoarding their bits and other treasures."

The Castle of the Royal Pony Sisters
S01E02: :shock: "It is said that the last known location of the five elements was in the ancient Castle of the Royal Pony Sisters."

S04E03: :prettywings: "As you know, the ancient castle that I once shared with Princess Luna lies mostly in ruins deep in the Everfree Forest."

Mythological Beasts

S02E20: :twonk: "That's Cerberus! He's supposed to be guarding the gates of Tartarus. But if he's here, then all the ancient evil creatures that have been imprisoned there could escape and destroy Equestria!"

S04E22: "The pony running the ancient beasts stall doesn't want anything I've got. But if you can get me the Orthros, I'll trade you the book for it."

Um, The Wonderbolts



Oh nice! Thanks for putting that together!

Only one of those references something concrete, but thankfully it comes up on two separate occasions; the Castle of the Two Sisters, which was constructed early on in Celestia and Luna's reign. It doesn't really help in terms of narrowing the field, but it does tell us that the time period when Celestia and Luna began their reign was long enough ago that it would, by modern standards, now be considered "ancient". I'd feel comfortable leaving the rise of Griffonstone where it is for the moment, in the vague period before the foundation of Equestria.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon May 25, 2015 12:03 am

I don't think we can use those few cases to pin down a specific timeframe for what happened in Griffonstone. "Ancient" is terribly vague and relies largely on context to establish a certain point in time. For example, when talking about computers I might use "ancient" to describe a computer that is merely from the '90s, whereas if I were talking about something in human history then "ancient" would likely refer to events that took place at least a few millennia ago.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Mon May 25, 2015 12:20 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:I don't think we can use those few cases to pin down a specific timeframe for what happened in Griffonstone. "Ancient" is terribly vague and relies largely on context to establish a certain point in time. For example, when talking about computers I might use "ancient" to describe a computer that is merely from the '90s, whereas if I were talking about something in human history then "ancient" would likely refer to events that took place at least a few millennia ago.


Oh, totally. I really just wanted to get an idea of how the word "ancient" has been used in the past. The rise of Griffonstone could still have believably taken place pretty much anywhere on the timeline before about 150 BF.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Mon May 25, 2015 1:32 am

Well, we know a king (possibly the first king) found the idol, and the 14th king lost it, so that at least sets an upper limit to how long it could have been.

:facehoof: Unless there were a bunch of queens in between. So I guess that doesn't help as much as I thought it might.

Edit: Confirmed that Grover was the first; at least in Grandpa Grump's story. So that kind of sets a decent minimum for how long it was. Unless Griffon kings have a habit of bad encounters with guillotines, I suppose.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Mon May 25, 2015 2:41 am

Bremen wrote:Well, we know a king (possibly the first king) found the idol, and the 14th king lost it, so that at least sets an upper limit to how long it could have been.

:facehoof: Unless there were a bunch of queens in between. So I guess that doesn't help as much as I thought it might.

Edit: Confirmed that Grover was the first; at least in Grandpa Grump's story. So that kind of sets a decent minimum for how long it was. Unless Griffon kings have a habit of bad encounters with guillotines, I suppose.


Woah, 14th? Is that in the episode? I can't believe I missed it.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Mon May 25, 2015 2:56 am

PaulloDEC wrote:
Woah, 14th? Is that in the episode? I can't believe I missed it.


Yep, though it's sneakily in two parts:

Twilight Sparkle: [voiceover] Upon arriving in Griffon Gorge, be sure to pause and cast your eyes northerly, up the Hyperborean Mountains, taking in the breathtaking beauty of Griffonstone. Once in Griffonstone proper, go immediately to the palace and introduce yourself to the king. "Bygone Griffons of Greatness" was written a long time ago, and it ends with the coronation of the fourteenth king of the griffons, King Guto.


Grampa Gruff: That idol brought pride to the heart of every griffon that saw it! From one king to the next, Griffonstone had our golden idol. We were the envy of all other species. [narrating] It held us together – it gave us an identity – right up until the reign of King Guto.
[lightning cracks]
Grampa Gruff: [narrating] That's when Arimaspi came to steal our griffon treasure! King Guto tried to fight him off, but Arimaspi managed to get away with the idol!
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Mon May 25, 2015 3:50 am

Bremen wrote:
Yep, though it's sneakily in two parts:



Oh snap, good catch! That definitely changes thing a bit.

If we assume that Griffons are all about the male monarchs (in the same way that ponies are all about the female monarchs), all we have to do is establish how long a Griffon might rule for to get a rough idea of how long the kingdom lasted. Unfortunately we're back to making assumptions, given that we don't even know the average lifespan of a pony, much less a Griffon.

So anyway, if we assume they have similar lifespans to ponies (who, based on the Apple family seem to age similarly to humans), how long would a king's reign last? In the real world I guess reigns tended to be kinda short due to war/disease/too much mutton etc, but in Equestria that stuff is less of an issue.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Mon May 25, 2015 8:13 am

Assuming peaceful reigns, one could assume the number of kings to be roughly equal to the number of generations (after all, usually a king will be succeeded by his son), which for humanity is usually 20-25 years. This might not be strictly true if the position of Griffon King isn't hereditary, but it's probably still as decent a guess as we're going to get.

Assuming no queens and no high turnover of kings, that gives a rough guess of 280-350 years between the Idol being found and being lost. Which would seem to put it firmly in the post-NMM segment of Equestrian history.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Mon May 25, 2015 9:57 am

Bremen wrote:Assuming peaceful reigns, one could assume the number of kings to be roughly equal to the number of generations (after all, usually a king will be succeeded by his son), which for humanity is usually 20-25 years. This might not be strictly true if the position of Griffon King isn't hereditary, but it's probably still as decent a guess as we're going to get.

Assuming no queens and no high turnover of kings, that gives a rough guess of 280-350 years between the Idol being found and being lost. Which would seem to put it firmly in the post-NMM segment of Equestrian history.


Good stuff, I can buy that. I've moved the event up to around ~300 BF now.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:23 pm

Long story short, I've just noticed that I never put anything from the first two Comic arcs in this thing.

So, a question for anyone listening: would the Nightmare Rarity arc fit between the S1 premiere and Luna's first appearance in her "mature" form? Initially I was ready to just put it chronologically after the Chrysalis arc, until I realised that the comics aren't necessarily chronological at all. Are there any references or callbacks that anyone can remember that would prevent it from being placed sometime in that period?

If this was already obvious to everyone but me, please disregard.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:55 pm

PaulloDEC wrote:So, a question for anyone listening: would the Nightmare Rarity arc fit between the S1 premiere and Luna's first appearance in her "mature" form? Initially I was ready to just put it chronologically after the Chrysalis arc, until I realised that the comics aren't necessarily chronological at all. Are there any references or callbacks that anyone can remember that would prevent it from being placed sometime in that period?

If this was already obvious to everyone but me, please disregard.

The way I read it was that Luna's hair is supposed to go back to the way it looked in S1 when she's terribly sad or upset about something (as she was in that whole story, and also perhaps was back at the beginning of the show). Such a phenomenon isn't unheard of, judging by Pinkie Pie's behavior.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:00 pm

I vaguely remember the writer saying that her mane was based on her feelings, but I guess it could have been seen as a transition between the two.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:04 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:The way I read it was that Luna's hair is supposed to go back to the way it looked in S1 when she's terribly sad or upset about something (as she was in that whole story, and also perhaps was back at the beginning of the show). Such a phenomenon isn't unheard of, judging by Pinkie Pie's behavior.


That's definitely one explanation, and it fits with the fact that she took that younger form again after being defeated as Nightmare Moon. I just wonder whether it actually makes more sense for this to be a pre-Luna Eclipsed story. Her appearance fits with the S1 premiere, as does her less assertive, more unsure attitude. The story even depicts her return to confidence, and with it her change back to her more adult form.

The Doctor wrote:I vaguely remember the writer saying that her mane was based on her feelings, but I guess it could have been seen as a transition between the two.


Hmm. That's a bit of a wrinkle. It just seems to make so much more sense for this to pre-date "Luna Eclipsed" Luna.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:55 pm

With some help from Sigmasonic (if you're reading, hi Sigma!) Nightmare Rarity is now locked down to mid-Season 3, thanks to a cameo by that pesky Trixie character.

Besides that, plugged a bunch of other gaps over the last few days. The timeline now includes information from:

• Tirek Fiendship
• Nightmare Rarity (All)
• Return of Queen Chrysalis (All)
• Siege of the Crystal Empire (Part 1)
• The Cutie Map (Parts 1 and 2)

As always, if anyone feels like taking a look, I'd be glad to hear of any errors/omissions. This thing is starting to get legitimately monstrous.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:23 am

With new Pony right around the corner, I figured one last update might be appropriate before the new stuff starts rolling in. LINK HERE: http://tinyurl.com/equestriatimeline

As always, spoilers follow, sometimes even for episodes that have yet to air.

Since last time:

• A bunch of Siege of the Crystal Empire stuff
• Notes for each of the alternate timeline divergence points from the S5 finale
• The birth of Flurry Heart (Caution, S6 premiere spoiler)
• Probably a bunch of other crap I've already forgotten

There's nothing in here that won't be known to people who've been following the trailers for S6, but I wanted to be really clear about the spoilers for everyone else.
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