S04E12: Pinkie Pride

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Re: Let's Re-Watch Week 30 : Pinkie Pride!

Postby Wayoshi (?) » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:18 am

I love this episode.

That is all. :-I
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Postby Bremen (?) » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:46 am

Great episode. The characterization is good, the writing is tight, and the songs and jokes are wonderful :awesomedash:

IMHO Pinkie realizing that the element of laughter isn't so much about being funny as it was making sure others were having fun was one of the better done key moments, as well.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:37 pm

Like everyone else, I really love this one.

I only have one little observation from my notes to share, but it's one I always remember when I think about this episode.

...there's a moment towards the end of the episode that really struck me in a way I hadn't expected. It's during "Make a Wish" at Rainbow Dash's party, where we see a variety of shots of characters on the main stage. Sometimes it's just Pinkie, sometimes it's Pinkie and a few of the girls, but there's one particular shot with Pinkie and Cheese huddled in close as they sing. That moment there was the first time I've ever felt as if Pinkie might be getting older. That moment kinda felt like an acceptance on her part of having been bettered; superseded even. That classic master-becomes-the-student moment. For a short time, it felt like Pinkie might not be such a kid anymore. It was a little sad, but also nice.
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Postby Ruflux (?) » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:47 pm

Something I just noticed: the ending shot of Cheese Sandwich walking towards the sunset features a 3D model of him. I wonder why they did that? Was it because doing the realistic shadow for him was easier if the whole character was done in 3D or something?
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:01 pm

Could be. I don't know how complex it is to make shadows in flash animation.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:29 pm

PaulloDEC wrote:Like everyone else, I really love this one.

I only have one little observation from my notes to share, but it's one I always remember when I think about this episode.



I don't think she's been bettered, though - rather, the two have complementary styles, which means they have their own flair (Aka his obsession with giant wheels of cheese); as the Goof-Off shows, they were still escalating when Pinkie called it off. Had it gone on and on, Equestria would have been destroyed.

Watching this again brings many a smile. Make A Wish is such a good song.
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Postby Discord (?) » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:46 pm

Still such a joyous and excellent episode.

It's handling of Pinkie Pie is fantastic. They handled Cheese Sandwich really well, and he was an amazing guest character. The music was a lot of fun, and legitimately heartwarming much of the time.

Just a really well rounded, enjoyable watch.
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:11 am

Did I ever say Weird Al is best pony, because he really is.

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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:13 am

Dexanth wrote:
I don't think she's been bettered, though - rather, the two have complementary styles, which means they have their own flair (Aka his obsession with giant wheels of cheese); as the Goof-Off shows, they were still escalating when Pinkie called it off. Had it gone on and on, Equestria would have been destroyed.


It's true that they're both good in their own ways, but IMO the story is primarily about Pinkie's more intimate, small-town parties being overshadowed by Cheese's bigger, more professional events. Cheese is basically the skilled professional to Pinkie's passionate amateur (which makes sense, given that Pinkie seems to be a Baker/Baker's Assistant(?) who party-plans on the side).

By the end of the story we've learned not only that sometimes in life others will be better at your favourite things than you are, but also that inspiring others with your passion and enthusiasm is just as valuable as being the best at something is. That's how I interpreted it anyway, and I like how complex and practical of a lesson it is.
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Postby doodlesplat (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:50 am

Considering the events of Pinkie getting her cutie mark, and the manner in which she tries to solve every problem, and the kinds of things she always has stashed at the ready, I'd say she's primarily a party pony, and a baker only on the side. Partying is her life, as opposed to a career. Cheese does have the pomp and planning part down to an art, but Pinkie's perceptive grasp of the spirit of Party is unparalleled.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:19 am

That's about how I see her, too, being a party planner first. I wouldn't call her an amateur like PaulloDEC does, though, considering how long she's been at it (apparently, she set off to spread good cheer shortly after getting her cutie mark) and how pretty much all of Ponyville seems to know and love her for it by now. It also comes across as her job, since the Cakes seem to do more of Sugarcube Corner's baking (though Pinkie Pie does lend them a hand plenty of times, enough to where I wouldn't dismiss her baking solely as an on-the-side sort of thing), and if it's her job then she's not quite so much of an amateur.

I suppose the main difference between the two of them is that Cheese Sandwich just likes traveling more. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:22 am

I do have to say that Pinkie is definitely a partier first, just like how I'm a computer potato more than I am an Amazon employee, despite one being my "hobby" (if you can call it such) and the other my job. Pinkie's baking could easily follow some chain of logic like this:

"If I'm going to throw a party, I'll need a cake (because what party is complete without one), but if all the stores are all closed I won't be able to buy one, which would be absolutely terrible, so I better learn how to bake just in case of cake emergencies!"


Yeah. That. It's also a possibility that it might be part of the agreement with the Cakes for room and board, but that's the boring explanation.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:42 am

With the baking thing I was thinking specifically in terms of occupation; I guess I've always thought of Pinkie's purpose (i.e. in terms of cutie mark destiny stuff) as being to spread joy, rather than anything specifically party related.

In terms of work, I guess we really haven't seen her doing an awful lot of anything. I always assumed she spent her time doing... something at Sugarcube Corner, but maybe not. I wonder if we'll ever see that nailed down?

doodlesplat wrote:Partying is her life, as opposed to a career. Cheese does have the pomp and planning part down to an art, but Pinkie's perceptive grasp of the spirit of Party is unparalleled. :-P


Well said!

Fizzbuzz wrote:That's about how I see her, too, being a party planner first. I wouldn't call her an amateur like PaulloDEC does, though, considering how long she's been at it (apparently, she set off to spread good cheer shortly after getting her cutie mark) and how pretty much all of Ponyville seems to know and love her for it by now. It also comes across as her job, since the Cakes seem to do more of Sugarcube Corner's baking (though Pinkie Pie does lend them a hand plenty of times, enough to where I wouldn't dismiss her baking solely as an on-the-side sort of thing), and if it's her job then she's not quite so much of an amateur.


Marioland1 wrote:I do have to say that Pinkie is definitely a partier first, just like how I'm a computer potato more than I am an Amazon employee, despite one being my "hobby" (if you can call it such) and the other my job. Pinkie's baking could easily follow some chain of logic like this:

"If I'm going to throw a party, I'll need a cake (because what party is complete without one), but if all the stores are all closed I won't be able to buy one, which would be absolutely terrible, so I better learn how to bake just in case of cake emergencies!"


Yeah. That. It's also a possibility that it might be part of the agreement with the Cakes for room and board, but that's the boring explanation.


Lots of good points in here. I'm coming to realise that Pinkie might actually be the most enigmatic of the Mane 6, despite how in-your-face she can be. What does she do all day? We saw her in hanging out at the Hayburger in Twilight Time; was she on lunch break?
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:52 am

I also believe that Pinkie's main function is to plan parties and spread joy so that the baking portion is just a part of what she does to make others happy.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:58 am

ROBOT B9 wrote:I also believe that Pinkie's main function is to plan parties and spread joy so that the baking portion is just a part of what she does to make others happy.


Yup!

Plus, rent ain't free, even in Equestria. Gotta pay the bills somehow.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:17 am

I'd imagine that party planning pays well, though.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:22 am

ROBOT B9 wrote:I'd imagine that party planning pays well, though.


I hope so! Ponyville's a small place, I can't imagine she'd be picking up more than one a week.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:33 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:I wouldn't call her an amateur like PaulloDEC does, though, considering how long she's been at it (apparently, she set off to spread good cheer shortly after getting her cutie mark)

Image I notice your résumé doesn't list any accredited schools of higher party learning.
:cheese: Oh, I never needed to be taught how to party. It was my destiny!
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Postby Applepie (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:44 am

That was the highlight of S4.

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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:06 pm

PaulloDEC wrote:With the baking thing I was thinking specifically in terms of occupation; I guess I've always thought of Pinkie's purpose (i.e. in terms of cutie mark destiny stuff) as being to spread joy, rather than anything specifically party related.

Pretty much. As I see her, all she wants to do in life is make other people happy, and baked goods are usualy quite effective at that. She also has one hell of a sweet tooth, so...
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:05 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:
Pretty much. As I see her, all she wants to do in life is make other people happy, and baked goods are usually quite effective at that. She also has one hell of a sweet tooth, so...


It all fits pretty nicely.

Weirdly enough, we've already had a new tidbit about Pinkie from S5 that I didn't notice before. In the SDCC animatic she makes a crack about going to organise her baking sheets when Twilight pitches a road-trip to follow the map table.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:04 pm

I think the fact that Pinkie makes laughter and happiness a part of everything she does and how she lives, not just something she does when the situation calls for it, makes her one of the stronger element representatives among the Mane 6. :-)
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:02 am

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One of the things this episode reminded me is that "if you please" is such a nice polite thing to say, and I hope it makes a comeback. :)
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:22 am

Oh, wouldn't it be nice if someone started saying that at work? It's really brighten up everyone's day.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:48 am

That's it, I'm going to start saying it. :)
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:18 pm


Is it just me or does her neck look longer than usual? Or maybe it's her eyes. I'd love to see the storyboards used for this song (and, honestly, all the other ones in this episode too).
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:23 pm

...Hmmm, never noticed that. Maybe it's a animation goof?

Speaking of which, this episode has the Alicorn Rarity in it, right?
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:00 pm

Yes, that was in this episode:



And while I was reviewing the original episode thread to find that screenshot, I did see again a few more particularly goofy expressions from that song I mentioned earlier.
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:15 pm

Love the design of that vendor pony.
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Postby Doctor Wheeze (?) » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:25 pm

Mechanical Ape wrote:Love the design of that vendor pony.

She's another staff OC. I really like her design too :allears:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:29 pm

It really does have a really pretty design, doesn't it? :allears:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:36 am

A genuinely enjoyable episode. Not because of the story's complexity or the good characterizations or anything—mostly because the gags are so thick on the floor and so genuine. The "cupcake in the eye" bits are a perfect microcosm. It's a joke that has grown with the show, and rather than become more and more meta or needing to be subverted (like the "Jedi mind trick" thing), it's just sort of faded from the script and become a little visual nod handled completely outside the dialogue. Pinkie is just saying "I promise" something, with a completely serious poker face, and in the middle of it and without skipping a beat she smushes a cupcake into her eye. We all know what it means, they don't draw any attention to it, but the humor all comes from the timing and from the juxtaposition of her seriousness with the silliness of the act. It's just about perfect in its execution; and then, near the end, she echoes it again as she forfeits to Cheese, briefly putting a hoof over her eye in what amounts to a silent, involuntary acknowledgment of what she'd promised and what she'd staked on it. Things like that, and Rainbow Dash posing against the banner, and the tape on the hoof, and dozens more little things—those are what really make this episode shine for me. I was laughing a lot throughout. "3:10 to goof-off :v: "

Looking back, it's funny to think how we all sort of knew instinctively that Weird Al would somehow, someday get involved with the show; it's just too joyful and fun for him not to. In a way there's a certain inevitability to the way it happened here; there's no other kind of character he could have appeared as, and no other character he could have been a foil to but Pinkie. Yet it still feels earnest and fresh, and what makes it work is that they didn't try to do something "we wouldn't expect" like making him a genuine villain or something. They stuck to the overall this-is-a-nice-world-to-be-in atmosphere of the show and made him someone you would hate to hate. Which is fortunate, because he's the source of a great many of those gags that cluster so thickly in this episode.

What I don't get, though, is his motivation; and I'm not sure the writers really thought it through very carefully, probably because they were just too stoked at getting Weird Al on board. If Cheese's whole goal was to impress Pinkie—if he had always admired her from afar—why would he not have just told her that? Why would he not have greeted her as a fan and an acolyte the moment he walked into town driven by his "cheesy sense" twinge and told her his story? Why would he have set himself up from the outset as someone who wanted to challenge Pinkie—not quite in a Flim and Flam way, but certainly not ever reacting to the ever-mounting stakes by going "Whoa whoa whoa, hold on here, I'm not trying to start a war or anything, I'm a great admirer of yours, can't we work together"? Overall the story the episode is telling is kinda convoluted and contrived, and I can't say it really impresses me with its intricate wit or its maturity.

But it does have an awful lot of heart nonetheless. And Pinkie gets some of her best characterization she's had in a very long time; when she says "And I ... don't", Libman really, really sells it well.

Also great to see another full-fledged musical episode. I don't think it's quite the equal of MMC; the songs aren't as earwormy or evocative, and are a bit more narrative-showtunesy and get bogged down by a fair amount of clumsy lyrics and uninspired meter. But none of the songs are bad, and I do like "Make a Wish" quite a lot—there's something about the way it shifts the tone of the episode from polkas-and-birthday-songs to bass-heavy dance that really emphasizes how the atmosphere has changed once the two party ponies have joined forces. It's kinda like how "Love Is In Bloom" sounds like a credits theme after all the scenery-chewing showtunes in ACW, or how in the very first episode, after all the fairy-tale sincerity and introductory scenes you can hear the bass of the all-night party thumping through the wall; and something about a techno-ish pop dance number feels almost relaxing after all that form-focused fantasy stagewankery.

Incidentally, I hadn't even realized how many of our newest smilies come from this episode :amazing: :rant: :hiiiii: :eep: :q: :sbahj: :silly:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:54 am

Headless Horse wrote:What I don't get, though, is his motivation; and I'm not sure the writers really thought it through very carefully, probably because they were just too stoked at getting Weird Al on board. If Cheese's whole goal was to impress Pinkie—if he had always admired her from afar—why would he not have just told her that? Why would he not have greeted her as a fan and an acolyte the moment he walked into town driven by his "cheesy sense" twinge and told her his story? Why would he have set himself up from the outset as someone who wanted to challenge Pinkie—not quite in a Flim and Flam way, but certainly not ever reacting to the ever-mounting stakes by going "Whoa whoa whoa, hold on here, I'm not trying to start a war or anything, I'm a great admirer of yours, can't we work together"? Overall the story the episode is telling is kinda convoluted and contrived, and I can't say it really impresses me with its intricate wit or its maturity.

I don't think that was his only goal. I think he did want to put on a great party for Rainbow Dash, and he thought he'd be best for it, but Pinkie Pie couldn't accept anyone other than herself being the one to do that. It took an emotional shock for both of them (for her, seeing her friend get caught in the proverbial crossfire of the Goof-Off, and for him, seeing her so mournfully abandon the party) to realize that this competition between the two of them was unnecessary and that perhaps he'd be better able to show his appreciation if they worked together.

Still, I think it's a good thing to run a simpler story like this in a huge musical episode, vs. the world-changing story that MMC had to tell in between (and during) all its songs.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:02 am

Headless Horse wrote:What I don't get, though, is his motivation; and I'm not sure the writers really thought it through very carefully, probably because they were just too stoked at getting Weird Al on board. If Cheese's whole goal was to impress Pinkie—if he had always admired her from afar—why would he not have just told her that? Why would he not have greeted her as a fan and an acolyte the moment he walked into town driven by his "cheesy sense" twinge and told her his story? Why would he have set himself up from the outset as someone who wanted to challenge Pinkie—not quite in a Flim and Flam way, but certainly not ever reacting to the ever-mounting stakes by going "Whoa whoa whoa, hold on here, I'm not trying to start a war or anything, I'm a great admirer of yours, can't we work together"? Overall the story the episode is telling is kinda convoluted and contrived, and I can't say it really impresses me with its intricate wit or its maturity.


I think the idea with Cheese is just that he takes his reputation a little more seriously than Pinkie does, and has a bit more of an ego on top of that. He may be a fan of Pinkie, but it seems like he wants to be seen as a professional; the best of the best even, before all else. Only when he witnesses Pinkie's selflessness towards the end does he soften up a bit.
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Postby die Fledermaus (?) » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:19 am

Yea Cheese never came off as 'I MUST CRUSH MY RIVAL' but more 'what, I said I was the best, clearly I have to just prove that'. Basically Pinkie had a reputation because she was genuinely friendly and just volunteered to help people because that's how she rolls, but Cheese's came from him actively seeking people out and doing his thang so it was more a 'job' (as much as it can be) for him. When Pinkie puts friendship first he realizes 'oh, shit, the person who inspired me was doing this because she's genuinely friends with these ponies not just because it's a job, I've been doing this wrong'.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:33 am

I think like Pinkie, he too forgets why he is there. His goal is to make her proud of him. All his work is him basically trying to show he's a super duper party pony and get her to approve of him, at which point he can finally reveal she's his inspiration. It's the child trying to show their role model 'Hey, I can do it too!' but afraid of tainting genuine praise by revealing how much said praise would mean.
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Postby Doctor Zoidberg, Homeowner (?) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:36 am

I read it pretty much the same way: Cheese is just trying to prove that he is a worthy party planner to his hero and has gotten wrapped up in it. It's his job, so he takes it seriously (a bit too seriously). There's no malicious intent on his part.
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:23 am

It really isn't in Cheese's nature to cause harm, but it happens when you don't pay attention. Nothing abnormal in the least.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:20 am

Exactly. It became more of a serious job rather than a pastime for him and he took it too far.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:07 pm

Random observation: I really enjoy how Rainbow Dash indulgently gets into saying Cheese Sandwich's name. "I'm so stoked you're here, Cheeese Sandwich! :v: "
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