S04E25-26: Twilight's Kingdom

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Re: S04E25-26: Twilight's Kingdom

Postby Perpetual Lurker (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 3:25 am

Also, if the comics are any indication, Starswirl was a pretty cool dude. :allears:

But his multiverse research is also to blame for Equestria Girls. :applejargh:
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Postby RudeCyrus (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 4:08 am

This was not my favorite episode. It wasn't my favorite season finale. It wasn't a bad episode, not at all, but it lacked a lot of moments that made me get into this show in the first place. The 22-minute format really hurts it at times: even with a two-parter it felt rushed. The show has exposition on the villain, the songs, Discord faffing around and laying out plot points, Tirek doing his thing and being evil, ponies getting captured, the big fight, shit blowing up, Discord giving Twilight magic key thingy, eye-clawingly bad rainbow ponies, Celestia delivering more exposition, check out the new house, the end. Honestly, the only moment I really remember (besides shit blowing up) was Fluttershy's reaction to Discord's betrayal. Oh, and the rainbow ponies. I'll never forget those.

Honestly, I think I'm starting to prefer the comics over the show. They have the touching moments, funny dialogue, cute antics, and action stuff, but without the disjointed feeling I had after watching this. They also focus on characters outside the Mane Six, so no one feels left out. Maybe I'm just feeling off or something, but this ep didn't blow me away like I thought it would.
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 4:14 am

Untitled.jpg



:rariwhat: :"Scorpan befriended a young unicorn wizard?"
:excite: :"Starswirl began growing a beard and mustache even before he got his cutie mark, but he was teased about it at school so he refused to shave it out of spite! And thus a young unicorn was drawn to years of solitary study when he put his hooves on the path of the magical arts."
:twiright: :"History!"
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 4:32 am

It's kind of funny that Starswirl was friendly enough to convince some sort of demonic invader to change his ways, but he wasn't friendly enough to fix his spell.
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Postby Strangest Letter (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 4:34 am

On that note, I thought it was a nice touch that Celestia's explanation was in the same storybook art style seen in the first episode.
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Postby Wylie (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 4:48 am

Scuderia Ferrarity wrote:
Untitled.jpg



:rariwhat: :"Scorpan befriended a young unicorn wizard?"
:excite: :"Starswirl began growing a beard and mustache even before he got his cutie mark, but he was teased about it at school so he refused to shave it out of spite! And thus a young unicorn was drawn to years of solitary study when he put his hooves on the path of the magical arts."
:twiright: :"History!"


:spoiler: You can tell he's young because he's only got one bell on his hat. It's like age rings on a tree.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 4:57 am

Proving once and for all that they are the best friends and best mane 6 ponies, I noticed that when Twilight's giving the Magic Friendship speech, Fluttershy and RD are the only two with magic manes and tails (well, only the tail for Fluttershy). The others have more colorful, but normally flowing manes and tails.

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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 5:01 am

Kronos wrote:
Hasbro mandate.

I'm really annoyed that you believe this. :-/
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Postby RudeCyrus (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 5:02 am

The Doctor wrote:Proving once and for all that they are the best friends and best mane 6 ponies, I noticed that when Twilight's giving the Magic Friendship speech, Fluttershy and RD are the only two with magic manes and tails (well, only the tail for Fluttershy). The others have more colorful, but normally flowing manes and tails.

Image


Image


:awesomedash:

I'll just ignore that RD is missing her tail in that second pic.
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Postby Venusy (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 5:16 am

SlateSlabrock wrote:It's kind of funny that Starswirl was friendly enough to convince some sort of demonic invader to change his ways, but he wasn't friendly enough to fix his spell.

Honestly, this gives a potential reason why that happened - Scorpan doesn't have a cutie mark to get mixed up. :milkshake:
Scuderia Ferrarity wrote: :rariwhat: :"Scorpan befriended a young unicorn wizard?"

I choose to interpret this as being a friendship that potentially lasted for Starswirl's lifetime. :allears:
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Postby Jill (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 5:26 am

Dexanth wrote:really good celestia post
:golfclop: It's always been clear that there's more to Celestia's decisions than she lets anyone know about. Though I would expect someone with an age of 4+ digits to at least git gud at calculating their moves somewhere along the way.

-

One thing I find hella cool (perhaps most cool) about this finale is that it doesn't just wrap up a good season-long arc, but ties a few significant threads that have been hanging there from the previous season. In KCFO we were made to assume Celestia had some good and specific reason(s) for wanting Discord reformed. If the show had ended with the S3 finale (like they presumably planned to), we'd then have to assume it was just some plot device that never went anywhere else.

When I first watched KCFO I also expected there would have to come a point where Discord gets pulled back into old habits, whether we actually got to see it happen or not. Not because he was scheming to all along or anything absurdly puppetmaster-y like that, but because he was such a friendship noob that it took someone as kind as Fluttershy just to introduce him to it. He didn't need to be able to trust her, because what could she ever use him for? In that sense, he hadn't been completely reformed because the only thing he really knew about friendship was that it was now important to him. His only friend was an easy friend to have.

What I did not expect was... all this. Discord's inexperience naturally leads him to think he can trust Tirek, at least enough to have some fun once Equestria is taken over. After that doesn't happen we get what I'm calling Twilight's biggest moment in the show so far: Demanding that Discord be set free after all the shit he just caused, before he's had a chance to do any backpedaling, and without any kind of hesitation or uncertainty. His reformation is complete now that it's clear who is truly looking out for him, and to prove it he'll be the one to give Twilight the final key to Real Ultimate Power.

I don't even know how to describe the way these things just come together and resolve, but I love it. :allears: :ponydrugs:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 5:32 am

:-D Keep it up guys. You are convincing me with every post that Discord betraying everyone was a good thing and I'm almost there. Right now I'm pretty much settling on wishing there at least had been some angry looks and a Fluttershy plea on his behalf. Especially after that shot of her looking for him was pointed out.
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Postby LardLad3545 (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 6:09 am

Wow. That... was an episode alright. So much to take in. Just about everything about that was overwhelming. It's going to take me quite a while to soak up the finale in it's entirety and, really, the season as a whole. Best season by far, which is saying something. Very possibly best finale/2-parter. Just... yeah, a little overwhelmed. I won't bother with a full on multi-paragraph spiel of thoughts or anything, so I'll opt for a much simpler list of pros and cons.

We'll start with the bad because I felt it was overshadowed by the good, and I want my post to reflect that.

THE BAD:
-Rainbow Power Ponies. Yeah... designs were weird. Kinda like the breezie Mane 6 designs. I didn't despise it or anything. Just kinda weird. Not a big deal.
-The songs. Ok, I feel bad putting these into the "bad" list because they weren't bad. I just don't remember them much. They did their job and that was that. My favorite song from the series is Hearts Strong As Horses, btw...
-I'm not sure if I should feel this way about this episode specifically or the season in general, but I don't really feel like the season-long buildup really amounted to a whole lot. All that planning really could've not happened and the finale would've been mostly the same. Mostly. I agree with whoever said it in that the big fight may have been better suited to -after- the box was unlocked and it was a big 6 on 1 showdown, in the same way that the Mass Effect 3 ending should've been that the crucible was really just a gigantic gun and the reapers still had to be fought hardcore.

I do feel like those points are cons, but I really really just can't muster up the energy to care too much about them. I'm just too distracted by all the good we got.

THE GOOD:
-GOD DAYUM THAT FIGHT AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHS;FDSH;JDSSHB;A
-The Discord/Fluttershy moments. GOD DAYUM that hit me right in the tender feels spot. So... good...
-The supercharged Twilight moments. Those were cool.
-All the princesses sang and were together and they all talked and got screen time and yaaaaaaaaaaaay.
-The visuals. I say this about pretty much every new episode, but that's because it's always true.
-Tirek. That's some intense otherworldly devil-demon darker than pitch shit going on right there. Kinda out of place but in a really good unnerving way. Fantastic voice acting too. Dayum.
-THAT FIGHT GAAHHHAFHS;AHS;JLDFHA;SDLH;LAFLKSJD JFSDJFHNASDJLDDDDLD;JKDSHNF;JFSDBNVKJFDHNKJIL;FDHJOPIREUGIPHTRUHGBJNMI'SDFRJOIJDpoopHDS;JLHFAOUIHFOSH

THE DEPRESSING
-The library destruction. At first I didn't think much about it but then I did all my post-episode reading and all those people made me realize just how much history got the shit blown out of it. Now that I've had it clearly presented to me, that's just downright depressing. Or maybe it's the fact that we've finished yet ANOTHER season with a drought after it. Or maybe it's both. Either way, I can't help but feel pretty sad every time I think of a classic scene that happened in that tree and then think that it's all gone. Just... wow... overwhelming. Makes me feel pretty :fluttersmith: in the core there. It's like losing the Normandy SR1 in Mass Effect. Sure, we get a shiny new ship, but still... dayum... it hurts.

All these mixed feelings are pretty cool. It takes a complicated bit of entertainment to induce that kind of chaos. Even with all this bittersweetness, I can't help but feel truly privileged to witness this show and share it all with you guys. My enthusiasm for the fandom may have tapered off a while ago, but I've got a whole new perspective on the show that's truly invigorating. Maybe every emotion this episode drudged up wasn't positive, but they weren't meant to be. That feeling of bittersweetness is one that's been crafted over the course of three years, and it -takes- three years of brewing and crafting to do so. What makes it all even better is that the ride hasn't been 100% perfect. It's been wonderful, but not -quite- perfect, and that gives it all a sense of realness. That sense of realness kind of gives me this feeling of connection that's super special, and that makes me super happy. I dunno. It's a difficult feeling to put into words, but I did mah best.

Anywho, this forum is going to help with the drought, of which I have no concerns over now. I was concerned between seasons 2 and 3, wondering if 13 episodes was going to be enough to keep the fire alive. I was concerned between seasons 3 and 4 because that drought was just so goddamned long, I couldn't imagine myself keeping interesting for such a stretch. In the end, it didn't take any effort whatsoever. Now, between seasons 4 and 5, I'm just not concerned. My devotion is secured. The break could be 3 years long and it wouldn't matter. I'm in this for the duration, and afterward too. You just can't be this intensely entertained and wowed only to have interest taper off. It doesn't happen. I'm ready to take the pony break head on, and I'm totally doing it with you guys. Here's to however many months it takes to get to season 5!

:party: :crack: :awesomedash: :allears: :-P :hiiiii: :whatsup: :ponydrugs: :-D :twiright:

Hey guys, remember 18 years ago when you started reading this and I said I wasn't going to type up multiple paragraphs? Yeeeeeeah, good times.
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Postby Gnot Syndrome (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 10:18 am

(Alright, now that a day has passed and I've gotten some sleep my thoughts aren't so raw and cluttered. My last post was a little crazier than I meant it to be and I'm a little embarrassed. :sheepish:)

So yeah, that library! Golden Oaks has definitely seen a lot of destruction over the course of the show, but all of it was purely comedic and temporary, because it's a cartoon! But this time it isn't just Tom or Spike smashing through the wall, or even Trixie magically ripping the tree out of the ground and shaking it upside down. This time, it's legitimate annihilation. That's part of why it has so much impact, and why the scene's getting so much attention. Permanent destruction just isn't typically a part of the show - and definitely not the destruction of a major character's home.

It's sad and all, but I think it's the best way to move things forward. Having one of Equestria's four regal demigods living in the apartment above the public library of a rural town didn't make any sense at all.

Anyway, with that said, let's take a moment to remember the good times that took place in that library, shall we?
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...

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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 10:40 am

:twonk: FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUCK

YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU :gonkity:

Damn, that hits as hard as anything else the show's ever done. Legitimately misty here.





Grim wrote:What I did not expect was... all this. Discord's inexperience naturally leads him to think he can trust Tirek, at least enough to have some fun once Equestria is taken over. After that doesn't happen we get what I'm calling Twilight's biggest moment in the show so far: Demanding that Discord be set free after all the shit he just caused, before he's had a chance to do any backpedaling, and without any kind of hesitation or uncertainty. His reformation is complete now that it's clear who is truly looking out for him, and to prove it he'll be the one to give Twilight the final key to Real Ultimate Power.

I don't even know how to describe the way these things just come together and resolve, but I love it. :allears: :ponydrugs:


This is great, and one thing I really appreciate about the moment is that Twilight doesn't waste any time monologuing about the Power of Friendship or how Discord is a friend no matter what or whether she likes it or not or whatever. She just goes :twonk: RELEASE HIM without even pausing for breath.

The script leaves all this interpretation stuff totally up to the viewer to get. It's fuckin' invigorating is what it is.
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Postby Jyu (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 12:20 pm

You know, I suppose there was actually a great catastrophe in It's About Time, only it was 45 episodes late. :v: I guess Twilight did some good in that episode by getting Cerberus back to Tartarus. Who knows what else could have gotten out. :-P

I wonder if Tirek had something to do with Cerberus leaving its guard post? Doesn't really matter though. It was a neat bit of continuity tying Tirek's escape to IAT.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 1:10 pm

The Doctor wrote::-D Keep it up guys. You are convincing me with every post that Discord betraying everyone was a good thing and I'm almost there. Right now I'm pretty much settling on wishing there at least had been some angry looks and a Fluttershy plea on his behalf. Especially after that shot of her looking for him was pointed out.


There wasn't a need for it, though - because they had seen him repent before that moment. Every bit of his body language, everything he'd said once Tirek turned on him, it was screaming 'I have realized how big a mistake I made, and I am so, so sorry.'

And when someone does that - someone you truly care for - what benefit is there in anger? What is to be gained in making them feel worse?

Twilight forgave and demanded Discord's release because it was one of the greatest things one friend can do for another : Take them at their lowest, and help build them back up. Throw them a rope when they are sitting at the bottom of the well. Yes, it's entirely possible Rainbow Dash may have been one to give angry looks, but Rainbow wasn't in any position to do so; only Twilight was. This was Twilight's choice, and as Princess of Friendship - even if she had not realized it yet - she was demonstrating just why she is worthy of that title.
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Postby Wylie (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 1:38 pm

Headless Horse wrote::twonk: FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUCK

YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU :gonkity:

Damn, that hits as hard as anything else the show's ever done. Legitimately misty here.



I just realized that they ended the episode with that new picture of the 6 because her old one is gone now. :cry:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 1:51 pm

Wylie wrote:
I just realized that they ended the episode with that new picture of the 6 because her old one is gone now. :cry:




:twonk: TIIIIREEEKKKK!!! :cry:

New rule, now everytime something we don't like happens, or something makes us cry in the show we blame Tirek. :gotcha:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 1:56 pm

I thought we were to blame M.A Larson for that. :-P
:plonk: Image :)
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 1:58 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:I thought we were to blame M.A Larson for that. :-P



Congratulations Tirek, you're the NEW M.A. Larson! :v:
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Postby Doctor Wheeze (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 1:58 pm


You know what I noticed on rewatch? Initially I assumed that Owlowiscious had simply been blown clear and Twilight grabbed him midair or something. But she teleports right before the library gets blasted. She teleported into the library to save him :flutterunsmith:
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..... :hatte:
:dreamworks:
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 2:00 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:I thought we were to blame M.A Larson for that. :-P


Well he did write the episode where Tirek escaped in the background, so... :v:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 2:50 pm

Doctor Wheeze wrote:You know what I noticed on rewatch? Initially I assumed that Owlowiscious had simply been blown clear and Twilight grabbed him midair or something. But she teleports right before the library gets blasted. She teleported into the library to save him :flutterunsmith:


I just had that pointed out to me by someone and was going to post that.

That is the kind of shit that this show does that is unique from any other show with giant monster space laser battles. Right in the middle of it you get these moments of raw gaping humanity.

Plus it's highly pony-specific; it only even makes sense with characters who can teleport and who can think as fast under fire as Twilight can—and whose priorities are so geared toward the people she cares about that that is her first instinct when she sees the fireball incoming.

(It's so fast-paced, too. I need to go back and rewatch simply because that little detail, like so many other crucial ones, goes by so damn fast.)
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Postby Star Platinum (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 2:51 pm

Finally got around to watching the episode. It lived up to expectations in both good and bad, following the tried and true season finale formula. I wasn't too impressed by Tirek, he was much more menacing in his creepy sith lord robes in the beginning than in his swole centaur titan form. I don't know what he was like in G1 though (except for the TOTALLY FUCKIN METAL dragons :black101:), so maybe they were paying homage to his design there. Also, his powers were depicted pretty similarly to Discord's in S2 so there wasn't anything new there. I laughed at the big dumb DBZ fight, we have officially reached the "beamed through mountains" power level. At least we got a slightly longer action scene and Tirek kinda sorta tried to fight the rainbow beam at the end I guess.

And so we have reached the end at last. It has truly been a long journey for both Twilight Sparkle and us fans, and many have fallen along the road; RIP Treebrary. Twilight is the Princess of Friendship, her friends are now her trusted advisors and Discord is fully reformed. Perhaps even the CMC finally got their cutie marks; like any good mystery it is left for us to ponder. But most importantly, they all lived happily ever after. Now we can all move on, occasionally looking fondly back at the wonderful little pony show that, despite some hiccups along the way, managed not to outstay its welcome and reached a nice, satisfying conclu-
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oh. :-I

Seriously though, I'm good with more Pony, but I am a bit unsure where we'll go from here. They took it easy with Princess Twilight this season, but now we've reached the point that some people were worried about during the last hiatus: Twilight actually ruling. I am actually kind of legit upset that they blew away the library and put that stupid, gaudy, out-of-place tower in its place - the treehouse was a really neat and cozy "set" that had a charming simplicity to it. I know the writers are going to do their best with the conditions and restrictions they are given and the show probably won't suffer too much from it, but I can't help but feel like this was a small step towards the previous pony gens' idea of a princess.

The idea of Twilight's "council" reminds me of all the "epic" Equestrian war room fanart we've gotten since the start of the series. I kind of hope it's not going there, because that kind of stuff is not really what the series is about for me. In my opinion the premiere/finale formula has run its course by now; there wasn't much that impressed me one way or the other in this two-parter, and there's no way to raise the stakes and one-up that battle without jumping the shark. Please come up with actually smart ways for the villain to lose like in Magic Duel, tia
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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 2:55 pm

Star Platinum wrote:I don't know what he was like in G1 though (except for the TOTALLY FUCKIN METAL dragons :black101:), so maybe they were paying homage to his design there.



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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 3:10 pm

Pretty damn close, actually.

I can't remember it well enough, but oh how I would love it if that medallion from Scorpan was an artifact from Rescue at Midnight Castle too.
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Postby Doctor Wheeze (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 3:21 pm

Tirek's first line:
Is he friend, or is he foe, the pony wonders? I can assure you - I am no friend.

A bit of foreshadowing that he's not really interested in befriending Discord.

Also, props to this guy:
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He doesn't hesitate to step forward to blast Tirek in the face. He's a real Equestrian hero :jingo:
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..... :hatte:
:dreamworks:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 3:27 pm

Another thing from that scene—

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I know we've seen this guy's cutie mark before, but what the hell is it supposed to be? 8-bit apples?
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Postby ScionVyse (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 3:30 pm

Looks more like cut emerald to me. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 3:35 pm

There are so many little pop-culture things in this that fit perfectly into the episode, so many touches that are fantastic little additions.

I mean we have Mary Poppins Discord into Patton Discord into Bubble Bobble; the police uniform isn't really a reference, but it is just another wonderful Discord-ism. Part 2 has 'and her little dragon, too!'; really, every pop culture bit seems Discord-related, which makes perfect sense.

We have the keys all being evocative of their cutie marks. Part 2, Ponyville is boarded up after the Mane 5 warn everypony of what's coming.

There are just so many awesome touches like that that really show how much work the team puts into the animation here.
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 3:37 pm

Yeah, they're gems.

and her little dragon, too


I loved JdL's delivery of that line. He's so proud of himself.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 3:38 pm

I see that Cutie Mark and I think Minecraft
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 3:39 pm

Yeah, something about the texture of it seems really pixelised. I wonder if it's hand drawn, a vector or a pixel drawing.
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Postby Angel Beat (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 4:07 pm

Doctor Wheeze wrote:Tirek's first line:

A bit of foreshadowing that he's not really interested in befriending Discord.

Also, props to this guy:
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He doesn't hesitate to step forward to blast Tirek in the face. He's a real Equestrian hero :jingo:

Give it up for Noteworthy! (unicorn version) :v:
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Avatar by Karzahnii, image used with permission.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 4:14 pm

Dexanth wrote:There are so many little pop-culture things in this that fit perfectly into the episode, so many touches that are fantastic little additions.

I mean we have Mary Poppins Discord into Patton Discord into Bubble Bobble; the police uniform isn't really a reference, but it is just another wonderful Discord-ism. Part 2 has 'and her little dragon, too!'; really, every pop culture bit seems Discord-related, which makes perfect sense.

We have the keys all being evocative of their cutie marks. Part 2, Ponyville is boarded up after the Mane 5 warn everypony of what's coming.

There are just so many awesome touches like that that really show how much work the team puts into the animation here.


That plus summoning that scooter out of Littlest Pet Shop-Verse and puttering off on it. :-P
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 4:39 pm

Dexanth wrote:The police uniform isn't really a reference, but it is just another wonderful Discord-ism.


The fact that he's in short sleeves and playfully twirling a baton made me think of the Hot Cops.

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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 4:59 pm

I love the ending song but it's really hard to read it as anything but an ending to the series: the way it ties the show together, the "remember this show" lyrics, the photo at the end. God, it's great. But it feels like an ending, much more so than MMC already did.

Then again, while MMC was actually meant to be an ending, this time they definitely had to know they were getting renewed. Maybe it's just my imagination :v:
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but why would you post such a thing??
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 5:05 pm

This one does feel like a true finale.

Which is why I am glad there is more!
:milkshake: Image ImageImage Image
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Postby Durandal (?) » Mon May 12, 2014 5:08 pm

The Doctor wrote:Image


Tara woke up and barfed on me at about this point so I don't think she approved of this radical new direction for the show :vomitpony:
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