S04E16: It Ain't Easy Being Breezies

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Re: S04E16: It Ain't Easy Being Breezies

Postby Frosthawk (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:26 am

PictishBeast wrote:

Fluts is projecting here. Is this how she views her childhood? :ponder:


I noticed that too, and they never really revisited it either. It seemed oddly dark.

And these are the kind of Fluttershy moments in this episode that no one's talking about, and I think are worth talking about. Even if you say that it's only her motherly kindness coming out, it certainly does reflect what she thinks of the world at large, and explains a lot about her character. But it's still unexplored.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:33 am

MochaBean wrote:Kimi Sparkle is the only reviewer I'll ever need. :vogue:

I wish we had a Kimi smiley.


I'll admit I loved her recent one way, way too much.

Wait, um this episode? I guess I don't see why the other Breezies being hesitant to leave the comfort of Fluttershy's home has to be a game breaker. It was short sighted love of the moment vs having to do something hard that needs to get done. Really we've all been there.
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Postby InsertAuthorHere (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:34 am

MochaBean wrote:Kimi Sparkle is the only reviewer I'll ever need. :vogue:

I wish we had a Kimi smiley.


Kimi Sparkle is a worthy follow-up to their previous work, in that it's not funny and skates by on pretentiousness. And yes, I know it's a joke. They still can't write good humor if their lives depended on it.

Headless Horse wrote:I just find it really counterintuitive to consciously set about making negative reviews of this show in particular. The thing that got us all watching was surprise at the fact that it was good, despite all our preconceptions that it would suck. It was the joy of discovery and of having our investment doubly rewarded with more good Pony that made us feel like we were part of something special; it was the good things about the show that kept us interested, that we've all always wanted to share with one another, to justify to ourselves that it was worth the attention. If the show were bad it wouldn't have been noteworthy enough to watch, let alone to review.

Why would we want to fall all over ourselves to convince ourselves again that MLP is no good after all, or that it's crashing and burning, as though that's the kind of revelation that sustains us? Surely the logical thing to do, if the show isn't doing it for you anymore, is to wander off and find something else to do with your time. Why fight your way back out of the fandom laying waste to all around you like Sherman marching to the sea?


There's legitimate merit to discussing the cons of something and why you disliked it. By exposing what was done wrong, you can show the damage those mistakes caused and educate others to recognize those issues and strive to correct them. Just pointing out what works doesn't help anyone, because they're already good at that; they need to see what still needs improvement to become better. What is important, however, is that you don't let hyperbole and hatred override your logical thinking, and for the most part, the bigger names in the analysis community have tried to avoid that. Even Digibrony, who essentially gave up on the season after Bats, could still point out some good stuff, and I happen to disagree with him strongly on a lot of episodes. (So, there's really nothing worth discussing about Pinkie Apple Pie?)

If you want to see what happens when you really stew in your growing hate for the show, look no further than Chad Rocco. Back during the first two seasons, he loved the show and did some very good reviews. But after ACW, he decided the show was ruined without Faust and declared himself done with it. Only he wasn't, because he continued to post on tumblr and twitter about how McCarthy has ruined the series and how he hates episodes because they introduce new elements to characters (he said Filli Vanilli was awful because Big Mac was singing, among other things) or because he didn't think a joke was funny (he negatively compared the hayburger scene in Twilight Time to Teen Titans Go). The worst thing he ever did, though, was mention that if they were having Discord act out pop culture references, then they should have him act out De Lancie's role in Breaking Bad. The one where his character shot himself in the head. And it was posted only a couple days before news broke about Justin "Jew Wario" Carmical's suicide.

Digibrony and others who don't like this season at least present good reasons, and still enjoy several episodes. If you reach the point where you simply can't enjoy the show anymore, then you really need to stop watching. For your own sake, if nothing else.
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Postby Passport Clean (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:01 am

Ransom wrote:
Wait, um this episode? I guess I don't see why the other Breezies being hesitant to leave the comfort of Fluttershy's home has to be a game breaker. It was short sighted love of the moment vs having to do something hard that needs to get done. Really we've all been there.


Right. Contrasted with their family-man leader they come across as less mature, too optimistic and care-free, but I don't find these to be hanging offenses. If we must hate and dismiss them for this then we must write off an awful lot of humanity, and I can't bring myself to do that. Most of them will learn the lesson if taught properly. That was part of the episode's moral.

The breezies have also been bashed for being physically weak and extremely vulnerable, like that's their fault, or somehow not credible enough for a writer to sign off on in a fantasy world. I find this an odd objection to make when you're watching a show that stresses empathy for the struggles of those less fortunate or gifted. The title is right, the breezies got a really raw deal and I don't feel they should be sneered at for it.

Other, separate issue: people have said the episode is boring and repetitive. I don't personally see it. Like I said before, there was something cute OR funny OR world building OR slice-of-life-charming happening every thirty seconds, and to me that's enough to make an episode worth it. It's all in the little details. This one delivered while Twilight Time (whose reputation has been rising lately) didn't.

One more: Twilight's spell has been called an awful Deus Ex Machina. I might call it that too if A) she hadn't done things like that in the past without fans kicking up any fuss, B) she actually resolved the central problem of the episode with it, which she didn't. Ultimately it didn't matter how they helped the breezies get back to the portal once the convincing and pep-talking was done. Any number of other easily written-up methods could have achieved it with less :-D factor. What mattered was what happened between Sea Breeze and Fluttershy before all that. Twilight's display of raw power and the adorable results were icing on the cake.
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Postby Amethyst_Gem (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:13 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Without knowing anything about what kind of home she grew up in (seriously, four seasons in and the most we know is that she was bullied by other kids back in Cloudsdale), it's kind of hard to tell. I figured that was just a product of Fluttershy's sometimes overbearing kindness.


She seemed to be doting and fretting too much over their safety.
Or forgetting to separate the truly safer world that they're trying to get home to from her own world.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:20 am

InsertAuthorHere wrote:There's legitimate merit to discussing the cons of something and why you disliked it. By exposing what was done wrong, you can show the damage those mistakes caused and educate others to recognize those issues and strive to correct them. Just pointing out what works doesn't help anyone, because they're already good at that; they need to see what still needs improvement to become better.

I think where overly negative fans and I part ways on this subject is simply the magnitude of "the damage." Not every episode is going to be a masterpiece, but merely being funny and pointless doesn't spell the end of My Little Pony forever.

The tone of the show is generally positive and upbeat, and I think that's usually the way people should approach watching it. I see some people go into every episode with a huge chip on their shoulder about how the one-sentence preview didn't wow them, or a spoiler clip looked pointless without context, and two minutes after airing, they're shouting about how it once again failed to win them over.

If it has to be the best episode ever to make someone smile, maybe they should just wait to hear that an episode was a go-getter instead of just churning out half-hour, ten-paragraph reviews every week about how a little girls' show disappointed them.
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Postby Rainbow Crash (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:20 am

Passport Clean wrote:The breezies have also been bashed for being physically weak and extremely vulnerable, like that's their fault, or somehow not credible enough for a writer to sign off on in a fantasy world. I find this an odd objection to make when you're watching a show that stresses empathy for the struggles of those less fortunate or gifted. The title is right, the breezies got a really raw deal and I don't feel they should be sneered at for it.

Yeah, this is the biggest criticism of the episode that I don't understand.

I think with all we've seen in the show regarding ponies asserting control over nature that it's safe to assume that the breezies did indeed die a lot on their journey before ponies decided to help. The birds in Equestria need a pegasus to guide them back north after winter is over, for goodness sake! Is the breezies' situation that much different? Ponies are integral to the workings of nature. That's just how this fantasy world works.
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Postby Amethyst_Gem (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:26 am

Rainbow Crash wrote:Yeah, this is the biggest criticism of the episode that I don't understand.

I think with all we've seen in the show regarding ponies asserting control over nature that it's safe to assume that the breezies did indeed die a lot on their journey before ponies decided to help. The birds in Equestria need a pegasus to guide them back north after winter is over, for goodness sake! Is the breezies' situation that much different? Ponies are integral to the workings of nature. That's just how this fantasy world works.


Hear hear. Ecosystems in our own world can be so delicate too. :unenthused:
Let's not sneer at the fragile beauty of life, but accept it for what it is. :flutterunsmith:
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Postby Frosthawk (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:26 am

Passport Clean wrote:The breezies have also been bashed for being physically weak and extremely vulnerable, like that's their fault, or somehow not credible enough for a writer to sign off on in a fantasy world. I find this an odd objection to make when you're watching a show that stresses empathy for the struggles of those less fortunate or gifted. The title is right, the breezies got a really raw deal and I don't feel they should be sneered at for it.


I guess that's what happens when your #1 criterion upon watching an episode of Pony is "yes, but what would Ayn Rand think?" :clint:
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Postby Venusy (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:44 am

Frosthawk wrote:
I noticed that too, and they never really revisited it either. It seemed oddly dark.

And these are the kind of Fluttershy moments in this episode that no one's talking about, and I think are worth talking about. Even if you say that it's only her motherly kindness coming out, it certainly does reflect what she thinks of the world at large, and explains a lot about her character. But it's still unexplored.

I don't necessarily think it is unexplored, though it isn't in this episode. She's very sensitive to stimulation - even finding a noisy Pinkie to be scary on occasion - and believes/has believed everyone is watching and waiting for her to fail. She's tried being as cruel to the world as she sees it being to her, but her view isn't completely accurate.

I think being overprotective was more what they were going for here - she'd probably wrap the breezies in cotton wool if she could, and that probably really would hurt them with kindness. :flutterdear: (That might have helped the expression of the moral).

There were a few dark moments in this episode, like the quick hoof check while searching for Sea Breeze. I suspect that there will be a lot of fanart from the breezies' point of view, probably including alternate ways that scene could have gone. :nnngh:
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Postby Passport Clean (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:50 am

Frosthawk wrote:
I guess that's what happens when your #1 criterion upon watching an episode of Pony is "yes, but what would Ayn Rand think?" :clint:


You probably think you're 50% joking, but I've really encountered a lot of commenters who approach the show from a perspective not too far off from that. I have no idea how they got past the show's God-monarchy reigning over a world whose very weather patterns must be communally tended at every turn. Really, sometimes there's a very smurf vibe to Equestria, and I mean that in the most old-school socialist parable sense of the smurfs.

There are a lot of criterion used to judge the show that don't make much sense to me personally. Firm continuity is one (ignore the ex-supermodel and multiple-time world saving hero Fluttershy behind the curtain, but do worry about Twilight's princess status or the exact provenance of her spells not being addressed at every turn). Magnitude of conflict is another ("God I just can't care about that Sea Breeze and his girly life-or-death problems, take me back to season 1 when we dealt with real issues like who gets the limited number of tickets to the pretty pony palace promenade!"). Or the ever popular "this is a blatant ploy to sell toys" which is just... I mean... yes, yes it is. And?

Now I'm not judging you if these are important criterion for you, but they appear as alien to me as my love of Equestria Girls probably does to you.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:55 am

Someone mentioned Ayn Rand? Uh oh, this could get political. Better distract the thread.

If the Breezies ignoring the approaching loss of their home for petty comfort seems odd to you, just think of it as a metaphor for pollution.

Wait! That didn't come out right! :gonkity:
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Postby BartonFink (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:59 am

Y'know it's funny, I think there actually is a qualified criticism of "this feels like the show is just trying to sell something". Of course the whole show exists for toy-selling purposes, but there's a line between introducing a concept naturally and in a world-building sense vs. LOOK AT THIS NEW THING WE TOSSED IN OH SHIT.

...but, that being said, I honestly didn't get that vibe in this particular episode. Even with the end transformation stuff. And the show avoids this vibe pretty well. So, general statement defending that as a valid critique in theory. :pinkieshrug:

PictishBeast wrote:Fluttershy: Has it been an hour already? Oh, my goodness! Time flies when you're making sure little creatures don't feel that you're abandoning them to the cruel world.

Twilight Sparkle: But they're not going to a cruel world, right? They're going home.

Fluttershy: Oh, yes. That's right.

Good catch. Upon viewing I took this as the setup for some horrible truth/plot element about the breezies that would pop up during the episode but yeah, they never followed up on it. It doesn't even come off as a quick offhanded statement, it was enough to make me take notice.

It seems like we're left with a slice of her world view more than any specific incident. Inside the nice little cottage where she can take care of her animals, that's the place to be as much as possible - outside, with the monsters and other creatures and the other ponies, that's the cruel world. And what a shame to put them out into it.

A bit dark, in a casual way. Maybe I'm overreading. :nnngh:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:20 am

Honestly, I don't care at all if they're trying to sell us stuff or not. As long as I personally like it, I'll watch it no matter what.
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Postby Chaos Sonic (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:14 am

Eshe wrote:Also, technically, wasn't Rarity an alicorn during this episode? Wings and a horn. :-P

Wouldn't be the first time. In fact, if you think about it, Rarity was the first of the Mane Six to experience being an alicorn. :iiaia:

J. Jonah Jameson wrote:I tried to give this a chance but these guys are way too obnoxious I'm sorry. :bluh: "These tiny fairy ponies are so unrealistic!! Something this small and defenseless would never survive in real life what the hell are insects?? EDGY SWEARING TIME NOW"

I really don't get this "natural selection" argument. I mean, what gives anyone the idea that natural selection happens in a world where weather, seasons, the migration of animals, and even the movement of the heavenly bodies themselves are controlled by its inhabitants? :rariwhat:
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Postby J. Jonah Jameson (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:33 am

InsertAuthorHere wrote:Digibrony and others who don't like this season at least present good reasons, and still enjoy several episodes. If you reach the point where you simply can't enjoy the show anymore, then you really need to stop watching. For your own sake, if nothing else.

Digibrony lost all credibility for me when he started making videos about how rape jokes are totally acceptable and fantastic. :-/ That's off topic though so I won't go on about it. I'm not against the idea of analysis videos but an awful lot of them seem to be angry-videogame-nerd-esque "I'm going to melodramatically nerd rage at this cartoon because thats edgy and funny", and I have no patience for that.

Chaos Sonic wrote:I really don't get this "natural selection" argument. I mean, what gives anyone the idea that natural selection happens in a world where weather, seasons, the migration of animals, and even the movement of the heavenly bodies themselves are controlled by its inhabitants? :rariwhat:

I think they're used to magical creatures that are introduced being antagonists that threaten the ponies (manticores, changelings, timber wolves, etc). Ponies are their world's equivalent of humans - up until now we haven't really explored the idea of there being species that are as reliant on them as there are species reliant on humans in reality, or even just creatures that are as harmless to a pony as things like insects and small animals are to us. It's like these guys have never seen a spider before.

I'm cautiously anticipating the episode where Fluttershy tries to wipe out the Cordyceps fungus that takes over Breezies' bodies and mind controls them to perching on high branches before bursting out of their head. Ah, nature :allears:
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Postby DaBatGuy (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:57 am

After a second viewing I think I have a better understanding of why this episode and the Breezies in particular were so unappealing to some. MLP:FIM, despite being a show about big-eyed magical miniature horsies, has a habit of alleviating most of it's most saccharine and toyetic elements with a sinister twist or subversion:

Pinkie sings her fears away > ponies sarcastically address it.
Fluttershy finds cute bug creatures > creatures become ravenous locusts.
Fluttershy cares for a sick bird > bird pukes in her face and later "dies".
Ponies hope their dreams come true at the gala > night is ruined by the 1% and Flutershy goes nuts.
Pinkie takes care of adorable infant twins > DHX puts in a Trainspotting reference.
Posh Pony Royal wedding > nightmarish Changelings invade.
Crsytal pony Empire > Sombra returns to brainwash and enslave them.


IAEBB however plays the cute/toyetic angle hard and lays it on thick. There are several moments in the episode that could be described by some as the narrative equivalent of jiggling keys for an infant to get their attention, but with emphasizing the Breezies' cuteness. So many characters stating that they're cute throughout the episode, several shots of Breezies just being cute, and the mane 6 becoming Breezies for a contrived and possibly mandated reason; none of which really advanced the narrative. While I did enjoy the episode because I fell for the cute-bait hook, line, and sinker watching 22 minutes of pure visual diabetes without a hint of malice or cynicism felt more like Strawberry Shortcake or G3 than a typical FIM episode. It's jarring since FIM seemed to be above cuteness pandering at the detriment of the narrative.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:00 am

Chaos Sonic wrote:Wouldn't be the first time. In fact, if you think about it, Rarity was the first of the Mane Six to experience being an alicorn. :iiaia:


Ah, but those were butterfly wings. I don't know if that counts as a real alicorn. :v:
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Postby Caldera (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:20 am

J. Jonah Jameson wrote:I'm cautiously anticipating the episode where Fluttershy tries to wipe out the Cordyceps fungus that takes over Breezies' bodies and mind controls them to perching on high branches before bursting out of their head. Ah, nature :allears:

For a moment I thought you were gonna make a "The last of us" reference until I remembered that cordyceps existed before that game came out. :-I

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Personally, I can't say that I always give no shits about the opinion of some dude with a microphone on youtube cause I sometimes watch youtube reviews or top ten lists, but in this case it's bronies and a kids show so I DO, indeed, give no shits about the opinion of some dude with a microphone on youtube. Generally I was okay with this episode, though I did think it was grating how part of it was basically the same thing repeated over and over again. (Breezies gonna leave now? Nope. And now? Nope.)
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Postby Amethyst_Gem (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:31 am

J. Jonah Jameson wrote:I'm cautiously anticipating the episode where Fluttershy tries to wipe out the Cordyceps fungus that takes over Breezies' bodies and mind controls them to perching on high branches before bursting out of their head. Ah, nature :allears:

Maybe its this sort of 'dark' and 'sinister' side of nature that Fluttershy's worried about... :flutterdear:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:37 am

DaBatGuy wrote:After a second viewing I think I have a better understanding of why this episode and the Breezies in particular were so unappealing to some. MLP:FIM, despite being a show about big-eyed magical miniature horsies, has a habit of alleviating most of it's most saccharine and toyetic elements with a sinister twist or subversion:

Pinkie sings her fears away > ponies sarcastically address it.
Fluttershy finds cute bug creatures > creatures become ravenous locusts.
Fluttershy cares for a sick bird > bird pukes in her face and later "dies".
Ponies hope their dreams come true at the gala > night is ruined by the 1% and Flutershy goes nuts.
Pinkie takes care of adorable infant twins > DHX puts in a Trainspotting reference.
Posh Pony Royal wedding > nightmarish Changelings invade.
Crsytal pony Empire > Sombra returns to brainwash and enslave them.


IAEBB however plays the cute/toyetic angle hard and lays it on thick. There are several moments in the episode that could be described by some as the narrative equivalent of jiggling keys for an infant to get their attention, but with emphasizing the Breezies' cuteness. So many characters stating that they're cute throughout the episode, several shots of Breezies just being cute, and the mane 6 becoming Breezies for a contrived and possibly mandated reason; none of which really advanced the narrative. While I did enjoy the episode because I fell for the cute-bait hook, line, and sinker watching 22 minutes of pure visual diabetes without a hint of malice or cynicism felt more like Strawberry Shortcake or G3 than a typical FIM episode. It's jarring since FIM seemed to be above cuteness pandering at the detriment of the narrative.


So this episode was something other than "Fluttershy helps shepherd some ridiculously cute mini-bug-ponies > Bug-pony leader turns out to be a sailor-mouthed sarcastic asshole" ? :smirk:
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Postby Amethyst_Gem (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:49 am

Headless Horse wrote: So this episode was something other than "Fluttershy helps shepherd some ridiculously cute mini-bug-ponies > Bug-pony leader turns out to be a sailor-mouthed sarcastic asshole" ? :smirk:

Ironically, probably the only example of verbal abuse worse than Seabreeze's was when Fluttershy was going all 'assertive' on poor Pinkie Pie and Rarity in Putting Your Hoof Down.
:sadrarity: :deflated: :butwhy:
Or wait.. am I using 'irony' right? :-I

Also, Seabreeze's outfit is similar to those of the Glider clan from ElfQuest.
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Postby Passport Clean (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:24 am

Amethyst_Gem wrote:
Also, Seabreeze's outfit is similar to those of the Glider clan from ElfQuest.
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You know what, now that you point it out I think that was intentional.
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Postby Tears (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:23 pm

InsertAuthorHere wrote:
There's legitimate merit to discussing the cons of something and why you disliked it. By exposing what was done wrong, you can show the damage those mistakes caused and educate others to recognize those issues and strive to correct them. Just pointing out what works doesn't help anyone, because they're already good at that; they need to see what still needs improvement to become better.


I agree with nearly all of your post, but I guess - and I'm not saying salaried critics > proles, or at least I hope I'm not - but the reviews by the AV Club's Todd VanDerWerff and some others differ from the video reviews hugely, not in quality necessarily but in what they are actually examining about the thing.

I know there's a pressure for people to get these things up on the Saturday or Sunday, and the ones I've seen in my limited experience have been plenty articulate, but there's a lot of "this sucks, that was stupid, that was a cute moment for this character", which is mostly valid as a perspective, but I don't see as too different to a post on a messageboard by someone who's thought pretty hard about an episode and tried to construct a critique.

Which is fine and probably all a lot of the reviewers think this is, but... I dunno. The video Scion posted opens with a lot of "this episode was shit, the breezies sucked. I hated these creatures, they were so needy and pointless", and I get that they're going for a Morning Zoo talk radio-type vibe, but man, I don't care if you thought the breezies were pointless, that's not a review for me.

It's not like reviewers don't get into themes or whatever, but the need to have content up asap means they often run through a laundry list of things about an episode - that was cool, that could have been done better, that character was written funny there, the subtext of this seems to be, etc - mixed with swearing or humour or some grading system the guy's made up or however else they individuate themselves.

I'm not saying someone has to have read Pauline Kael to review a cartoon horse show, but most of the review stuff I've seen skews toward episode recaps with colour commentary, and it's a shame no ones trying anything more than that. Maybe it's because they're aimed at ultra-fans only, it'd be interesting to see a youtube review who talk about this stuff as if every person listening didn't know everything about the show and the episode before they click play.

Two great bits from Todd VDW's write-ups, since I skimmed over them again in writing this.

From a season one review:
The best word to describe it is probably “relentless,” in that it’s relentlessly cute, relentlessly happy, and relentlessly entertaining. In its own way, it reminds me of a movie like Singin’ In The Rain, in that both properties aim to overwhelm any cynicism directed at them via sheer and utter joyfulness. It seems like it should be easy to watch either property with an ironic sneer of detachment, but both utterly wear down all defenses.


From A Canterlot Wedding:
Yeah, this is still a show where the power of love conquers all. But it’s a show where the sheer, earnest hope that such a thing might be true carries you over the innate cynicism you’ll probably have about the very idea. My Little Pony acknowledges to its target audience of 6-year-old girls that, yes, they can be anything they want to be, be that the more athletic Rainbow Dash or the fashion-oriented Rarity. But at the same time, the series acknowledges that this idea is a little bit scary, that growing up is an isolating thing that can make you feel all alone, that it’s sometimes hard to make friends and just as hard to keep them. Yet buried down within that is a message that cuts across all ages: If we just tried to be a little bit better to each other, wouldn’t everything run that much more smoothly?


It would just be cool if someone was trying to examine the show in that light, in terms of the emotional messages and wider stuff. I think focus on the episode can be interesting, but can end up being a little forest for the trees. Was Pinkie annoying this week y/n? etc.

Apart from anything else, I guess the extracts above imply that the show is worth discussing in that light.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:42 pm

BartonFink wrote:Good catch. Upon viewing I took this as the setup for some horrible truth/plot element about the breezies that would pop up during the episode but yeah, they never followed up on it. It doesn't even come off as a quick offhanded statement, it was enough to make me take notice.

It seems like we're left with a slice of her world view more than any specific incident. Inside the nice little cottage where she can take care of her animals, that's the place to be as much as possible - outside, with the monsters and other creatures and the other ponies, that's the cruel world. And what a shame to put them out into it.

A bit dark, in a casual way. Maybe I'm overreading. :nnngh:

Something also to consider is that Fluttershy still wanted the Breezies to go home, but she didn't want to feel like she was being mean about it. Like, she knew they had to go out there, so she wasn't just trying to shield them from the rest of the world in general. She can't stand any sort of meanness on her part (as evidenced by how she broke down in tears after forcing the Breezies out, for example) and she learned here that it is sometimes necessary in the most extreme cases.
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Postby Amethyst_Gem (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:44 pm

Tears wrote: Critique of Critics

I think you've nailed what's wrong with many critics of media works. This form of analysis should be more... fluid, aware? I mean you can ask anyone what they LIKE about something, after all. :pinkieshrug:
I would get into a discussion about the merits of dialogue vs. action in the show, for example, and how great Levinger is with the former (its ok to like with elaboration). :allears:
Passport Clean wrote:You know what, now that you point it out I think that was intentional.

I'd like to think the similarities with G1's Wind Whistler are intentional too, though I admit to personal bias and favoritism with both characters.
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But wearing similar clothes with a levitating clan of faerie folk from an old classic fantasy series is FAR more subtle... so even moreso, likely intended. :v:
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:45 pm

I feel like Fluts' cruel world line was more about her understanding the viewpoint of small animals than herself. Overanalyzing.
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Postby fenster (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:48 pm

TheNegaverser wrote:
But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that the whole thing wasn't as weird as I'd initially thought. In Sonic Rainboom, Twilight used magic to give Rarity a pair of glitter wings. In The Cutie Mark Chronicles, Twilight turned her parents and the school board into various inanimate objects. In Secret Of My Excess, Spike transformed from a tiny baby dragon into a 50-foot tall rampaging beast because of nothing more than greed. And there's an entire race of Changelings who can take on the appearance of any individual they choose.


I forgot about this stuff too, and thinking about it, Twilight also transformed a bunch of mice into horse-like creatures (Best Night Ever), and a frog into an Orange (Too Many Pinkies), maybe even more occurrences that I'm forgetting about as well. So it's not without precedent that Twilight could have enough magic power/skill to do something like this.

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PictishBeast wrote:It takes 1 minute to read a written review; that turns into 10 minutes when you turn it into t-a-l-k-i-n-g. Ain't nobody got time for that.


I'm a slow reader, so usually spend a lot of time reading the little posts and reviews. :fluttersmith:

Tears wrote:I'm not saying someone has to have read Pauline Kael to review a cartoon horse show, but most of the review stuff I've seen skews toward episode recaps with colour commentary, and it's a shame no ones trying anything more than that. Maybe it's because they're aimed at ultra-fans only, it'd be interesting to see a youtube review who talk about this stuff as if every person listening didn't know everything about the show and the episode before they click play.

Two great bits from Todd VDW's write-ups, since I skimmed over them again in writing this.



This is what I feel as well, and why I don't follow many/any youtube or online reviewers in general. I'd prefer something with a little more substance that is thought provoking, like the excerpts you listed. That's not to say I dislike the opinions I read from everyone here because I'm a little more invested in our community's opinions, but the video reviews are always really dull outside of just listening in to see how closely some random person's opinion lines up with mine.
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Postby Amethyst_Gem (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:51 pm

fenster wrote:This is what I feel as well, and why I don't follow many/any youtube or online reviewers in general. I'd prefer something with a little more substance that is thought provoking, like the excerpts you listed. That's not to say I dislike the opinions I read from everyone here because I'm a little more invested in our community's opinions, but the video reviews are always really dull outside of just listening in to see how closely some random person's opinion lines up with mine.

And that's why I like to lurk on this forum: sane, intelligent, calm dialogue. Usually. :gotcha:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:56 pm

Wayoshi wrote:I feel like Fluts' cruel world line was more about her understanding the viewpoint of small animals than herself. Overanalyzing.

Eh... sort of. While she's gotten a lot better about not seeing the rest of the world as being out to get her, I think she still wants no one else to ever have to suffer like she did (or, more accurately, suffer like she thought she would). That's why forcing the Breezies out hurt her so much, since she felt like she'd just become what she wanted to protect them from all this time.
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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:05 pm

I'm kinda confused as to why people are analyzing that line. Equestria is full of monsters and various other things, natural and magical, that want to eat or kill you. It's never stated outright, but the FiM world is rather cruel and dangerous. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:10 pm

Tailspin wrote:I'm kinda confused as to why people are analyzing that line. Equestria is full of monsters and various other things, natural and magical, that want to eat or kill you. It's never stated outright, but the FiM world is rather cruel and dangerous. :pinkieshrug:

It's entirely because Fluttershy was the one who said it. Was she referring to Equestria's dangerous flora and fauna, especially when considering the size and fragility of the Breezies? Or was she also projecting some of her personal worldview on them? The meaning would be squarely in the former case had any of the other five said it, but since it was Fluttershy, it feels to me more like a little of both.
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:23 pm

Amethyst_Gem wrote:Ironically, probably the only example of verbal abuse worse than Seabreeze's was when Fluttershy was going all 'assertive' on poor Pinkie Pie and Rarity in Putting Your Hoof Down.
:sadrarity: :deflated: :butwhy:
Or wait.. am I using 'irony' right? :-I

Also, Seabreeze's outfit is similar to those of the Glider clan from ElfQuest.
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I'd THOugHT it reminded me of something, but i couldnt figure out what :-I
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Postby Passport Clean (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:24 pm

Levinger is getting twitter hate for this one. Send her some love if you can.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:27 pm

Man, why would you give someone hate for writing an episode you don't like? That just doesn't make sense... :fluttersmith:
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:27 pm

:facehoof: This fandom sometimes...
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Postby Tears (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:47 pm

Amethyst_Gem wrote:I think you've nailed what's wrong with many critics of media works. This form of analysis should be more... fluid, aware? I mean you can ask anyone what they LIKE about something, after all. :pinkieshrug:
I would get into a discussion about the merits of dialogue vs. action in the show, for example, and how great Levinger is with the former (its ok to like with elaboration). :allears:


To be fair that sort of analysis is really hard, especially because if you veer too deep into themes it turns into an essay, which is a different thing again. And the articles I quoted were non- regular write ups, so there's more ro for wider emotional points. But this stuff does come up every now and then, and it seems to get lost in the "I liked this stuff and didn't like that stuff and there's more stuff I liked than stuff I didn't do I'm rating [episode] as a buy", or whatever.

Passport Clean wrote:Levinger is getting twitter hate for this one. Send her some love if you can.


Three backlashes in six weeks, this is the worst fandom of all time.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:49 pm

Three backlashes? I'm afraid to know what the other two were... :flutterdear:
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Postby Tears (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:52 pm

Flash Sentry in TaC, Pinkie in Filli Vanilli. We're not supposed to even be a factor in this show.
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Postby DaBatGuy (?) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:54 pm

Headless Horse wrote:
So this episode was something other than "Fluttershy helps shepherd some ridiculously cute mini-bug-ponies > Bug-pony leader turns out to be a sailor-mouthed sarcastic asshole" ? :smirk:

I should have said "besides Sea Breeze it was 22 minutes of diabetes" to be more specific but even accounting for his bad attitude he was never really an antagonist, his actions were made with good intentions but he was too aggressive and was misunderstood. He was also the only neigh-sayer that was drowned out by the sugary hive mind of the other Breezies so the cuteness subversion wasn't as well emphasized as in the examples I gave.
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