S04E13: Simple Ways

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Re: S04E13: Simple Ways

Postby The Doctor (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:18 pm

Niels Olof wrote:So, now I had an opportunity to watch the proper, logo-free version, which sadly has not improved my opinion of the episode. I think I shall have to join the neigh-sayers :smug: (on a Rarity episode of all things :gonkity:)

The first ten minutes are beautiful. Excellent comedy, wonderful characterization. Rarity is just the pony to fall (again :ohrarity:) horn over hooves for somepony she hasn't met. Her world is one of ideals. Her very work life consists of her thinking up imaginative designs and then expertly turning them into reality (as referenced beautifully in this very episode). That she would imagine that her beautiful designs for a certain travel writer could be realized just as easily is plausible. It is beautiful, so it must be true.

But.

Then my suspense of disbelief is tested and broken. I do not see Rarity going country. No way, no how. If anything, she would out-Rarity herself, taking her concept (and herself) to eleven and beyond. There could still be a battle (of sorts, as Applejack in a non-combatant, not at all vying for Trenderhoof), but it wouldn't end in a pigs' sty. It would be gowns versus (rather baffled and increasingly annoyed) country.


In short, I think this episode should have taken a left turn at Albuquerque.

That doesn't change that Tabitha St. Germain is wonderful with what she is given, just as I think the Generosity song was saved by Kazumi Evans singing it.

(On a somewhat related note: being raised on a farm and all, I can't help but point out that that is not how you plow a field, Applejack. Not as ineffectual as Rarity, but still rather comical, when Applejack is supposed to be the farm pony. The furrows should be tightly packed side-by-side, turning over the upper layer of the soil of the entire field.)


This is a good point. Rarity has never been apologetic about who she is, even when it might come off grating or annoying to others (Who needs a fainting couch?). While I could see her maybe going with her fancy western wear we see in the middle of the episode, Droopy drawers is a bit much.

As for ending in a pig sty, that I can actually buy just because when it happened she was basically locked in competition with AJ and in the heat of the moment just totally lost it. Rarity had to up the ante because AJ was thoroughly dominating her in the "I'm better at acting like you" contest. I think the scene would have worked even if she was in her fancy western outfit at the time.
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Postby Tears (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:33 pm

Thing is, Rarity wasn't in her right mind by the end. That's why I think of it as a Lesson Zero-type ep, because it takes a weakness of a character and has it spiral out of control.

If you really like someone, and you dream about being with them, having all those months of longings and daydreams disappear in one hard flat "no" is absolutely crushing. And given that he'd only just met AJ, it didn't seem impossible that maybe it's the idea of a rural rustic person he's more infatuated with.

So Rarity's first step down the spiral is pretty simple, if not especially dignified. She wears some more western-themed clothes, with a very identifiably Rarity accent to them. That doesn't work, so she tries her hand at farmwork, which was never going to be a plan since she can't help but make AJ look good next to her.

So then, when she totally snaps, she thinks Applejack is intentionally trying to win Trenderhoof over and get him to ditch Rarity. And then she snaps, and it's all fugue from that point on.

Rarity is hugely emotional in general and it definitely takes it to an extreme, same as Twilight spell-casting and enchanting and causing a riot in LZ because she must have a lesson to tell the Princess about, but I don't think it's completely out of nowhere that someone Rarity's infatuated with being totally disinterested in her and super-interested in one of her friends might make her loopy for a while.

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:sweetielarm: AAHHHH this is so adorable I can't even tell you


That whole train station scene was my favourite part of the episode, Rarity reminded me of Liz Lemon but an adorable horse :allears:
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:55 pm

The train station is indeed a wonderful scene.

Still, I maintain that Rarity’s reaction could just as well have been becoming increasingly determined to show Trenderhoof how absolutely gorgeous and talented (real, actual) Rarity was. Increasingly desperate, and ultimately futile, but truer, I think, to her character. Heck, the moral could have stayed the same.

From the pig sty onwards, I’m happy with the episode again, and it certainly ends on a high note.

As I noted in my original post in this thread, I think that this is only the second time, we have seen Rarity’s mind snap (wailing and flailing is just her letting off steam, and why shouldn’t she be on a comfortable chaise lounge as she does it?), the first being Sonic Rainboom. Those wings were too much for her. :iiaia:
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Postby Sind (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:03 pm

Since people tend to like I_animate_ponymotes' gifs:
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Postby Jill (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:06 pm

Finally got around to watching this. That was just sweeyal. :heehaw:

I was actually expecting this to be the AJ key episode that perhaps went something like this: Trenderhoof starts pestering AJ, and Rarity is kind of let down by it. AJ notices, convinces Rarity that it'd be in both of their best interests to act like each other. Trenderhoof and Rarity both start changing their image to get what they're after, shit inevitably goes wrong in some way, AJ admits to them she should have just been honest with TH as soon as she caught on. Rarity then apologizes to TH who apologizes to AJ for being kind of indirect with their advances in the first place, with TH accepting that AJ doesn't feel the same way about him but is happy enough to have known her, then leaves AJ a Shimmering Rainbow Item before he leaves.

But, you know, maybe that's why I'm not writing for this show. :hiiiii:

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Postby The Doctor (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:07 pm

That one is excellent.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:22 pm

Sind wrote:Since people tend to like I_animate_ponymotes' gifs:
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Sweet, I was waiting to see what deleted scene would turn up.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:00 pm

Niels Olof wrote:As I noted in my original post in this thread, I think that this is only the second time, we have seen Rarity’s mind snap (wailing and flailing is just her letting off steam, and why shouldn’t she be on a comfortable chaise lounge as she does it?), the first being Sonic Rainboom. Those wings were too much for her. :iiaia:

What about in cases like Suited for Success and Sisterhooves Social? In the former she went into a melancholic funk even deeper than her usual dramatics, almost deep enough to turn her into a crazy cat lady. In the latter, while she didn't outright go crazy, she did do a thing as crazy as getting herself covered in mud (again) entirely for the sake of her sister.

Anyway, with the way they were escalated, Rarity's progression of actions in this episode felt natural. She tried again and again to impress Trenderhoof with her usual style, turning it up a notch every time he failed to fall for her, but eventually she lost it and went completely in the other direction. Eventually she got to the point where love became more important than cleanliness and fashion and she responded appropriately. (Well, I wouldn't say her total histrionics are appropriate for anyone. Appropriate for herself, more like.)
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:38 pm

:twiright:
Fizzbuzz wrote:What about in cases like Suited for Success and Sisterhooves Social? In the former she went into a melancholic funk even deeper than her usual dramatics, almost deep enough to turn her into a crazy cat lady. In the latter, while she didn't outright go crazy, she did do a thing as crazy as getting herself covered in mud (again) entirely for the sake of her sister.


Nope. :twiright: The first case is distraught Rarity (and I'm still bitter about the rest leaving her stewing in her abject misery "for days"). She is deeply unhappy, but she is very much herself. Sisterhooves Social is her realisation of the wrongs of her ways and seeing a manner to resolve it. She is no mysophobe (TIL a new word!). She is opposed to unnecessary dirt. If getting dirty will get her sister back, then she'll do it without hesitation, just as she will cut off her tail to fix your moustache. Still very much being Rarity Generosity Incarnate. She wasn't enthused about getting her hooves dirty in Castle Mane-ia, but it didn't drive her to distraction, either.

Anyway, with the way they were escalated, Rarity's progression of actions in this episode felt natural. She tried again and again to impress Trenderhoof with her usual style, turning it up a notch every time he failed to fall for her, but eventually she lost it and went completely in the other direction. Eventually she got to the point where love became more important than cleanliness and fashion and she responded appropriately. (Well, I wouldn't say her total histrionics are appropriate for anyone. Appropriate for herself, more like.)


There we will just have to disagree. When pushed, she usually becomes more focused on her strengths (occasionally causing some collateral damage in the process) rather than subverting her own aesthetics completely.

What she did was A Crime Against Fabulosity (and Fashion), and Rarity would not stand for such a thing. (Besides, the Fashion Police would swoop down (with the sound of an eagle) in a heartbeat).
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:11 am

Niels Olof wrote:Nope. :twiright: The first case is distraught Rarity (and I'm still bitter about the rest leaving her stewing in her abject misery "for days"). She is deeply unhappy, but she is very much herself.


I actually kind of like that her friends are insensitive and leave her out to dry, I think it's a neat part of the texture of Season 1. If you really evaluate their characters, the Mane Six of Season 1 are kind of jerks to one another most of the time and have their own petty alliances and rivalries within the group itself, like they just don't quite get this whole friendship thing yet and are still working things out. There's a major tonal shift in their relationship after they learn the lesson The Best Night Ever, one I always viewed as when they really learned the magic of friendship as a whole, not just how cool it was to have buddies in the world. Fitting for a season finale, really.

As for what's in-character for Rarity, I think she's evolved enough to the point where yeah, maybe she would take a situation like this a step too far. People in real life don't act in-character either if you keep defeating their expectations and draining their willpower. They'll find ways to change, and it'll turn out either adaptive or maladaptive.
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Postby Veradox (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:55 am

Sind wrote:Since people tend to like I_animate_ponymotes' gifs:
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10/10 Mind if I ask for the source?
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:59 am

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Postby Veradox (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:45 am

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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:19 am

Image

and looping...
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:26 am

And Twi is scratching her cheek during this time... why? :v:
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:01 am


Click for Fullsize

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Because you have the cutest widdle chubby cheeks~~~wooo~~~!


Image
Fluttershy's reaction.

:nnngh: Oh damnit, this is just another hairbrained scheme to get a guy isn't it?

:flutterdear: I mean...

:modesty: Rarity is a good friend and I support her every endeavor.


Image
Image
:v: I'd seen some stuff in my time. Rarity turning into a butterfly. Fluttershy turning into a bat. Discord. What happens when cutie marks get switched around by some out of control magic spell. What happens when the entire town sees a bewitched doll ... also by an out of control magic spell.

:awkward: This isn't that weird.
Last edited by Just Scuds on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:03 am

The episode was alright. Not fantastic, but not unrewatchable. :pinkieshrug: the reverse play between aj and rarity was silly... Spike was funny when he made a REALLY face when Rarity claimed he had no clu what it's like

:v:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:11 am

Rarity's dress is a basically a carpet over a leotard. :lol:

:v: and it makes her flank look big.

:starity:
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:23 am

Niels Olof wrote:Then my suspense of disbelief is tested and broken. I do not see Rarity going country. No way, no how. If anything, she would out-Rarity herself, taking her concept (and herself) to eleven and beyond.


It works because at that point it's not about the festival any more. It's not even really about Trenderhoof any more either. It's about Applejack.

Rarity subconsciously blames Applejack for all the shit that's gone down so far. "Simple Ways" is her coded way of going "see this? this is what you look like, durr durr durr." Applejack prancing around in dresses and making ridiculous duck faces is her going "well this is what you look like, neener neener neener."

It's one big cat fight and Rarity is packing knives.
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:59 am

But... dey is horses!

Dey ...

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dey is unclear on what horses is supposed to do. :wat:


I've been walkin' these streets so long
Singin' the same old song
I know every crack in these dirty sidewalks of Broadway
Where hustle's the name of the game
And nice guys get washed away like the snow and the rain
There's been a load of compromisin'
On the road to my horizon
But I'm gonna be where the lights are shinin' on me

Like a rhinestone cowboy
Riding out on a horse in a star-spangled rodeo
Like a rhinestone cowboy
Getting cards and letters from people I don't even know
And offers comin' over the phone



Oh this:
Image
is like
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oh sure! sure! what ever you say is fine!
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:06 am

Niels Olof wrote:
(On a somewhat related note: being raised on a farm and all, I can't help but point out that that is not how you plow a field, Applejack. Not as ineffectual as Rarity, but still rather comical, when Applejack is supposed to be the farm pony. The furrows should be tightly packed side-by-side, turning over the upper layer of the soil of the entire field.)


Counterpoint : She's planting trees, and so doesn't need to till the entire field because there's more spacing between plantings

(I have no idea if that's remotely true or not)
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:15 am

Scuderia, your new avatar and custom text is a thing of beauty and I laugh at it every time.
:plonk: Image :)
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Postby Perrydotto (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:11 am

Wayoshi wrote:Would you say such behavior can be... disruptive? :excellent:


Yes. Yes quite. :thatfishfromglassofwater:
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:41 am

Dexanth wrote:
Counterpoint : She's planting trees, and so doesn't need to till the entire field because there's more spacing between plantings

(I have no idea if that's remotely true or not)


It is also done to eliminate weeds etc, which she would want if she was going to plant seedlings. But for tree seedlings, you would make a hole per seedling, not plough a furrow, so I don't think that is what is going on. What I think is going on is "look! Farm horsie pulling farm implement across field! That counts as farming, right?" It signifies farming without actually being farming. It's just a minor point.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:24 am

And for what it's worth, I love the animation on AJ as she's plowing. Yet another brand-new walk cycle that looks just as good as the ones they pre-rendered for S1. :allears:

I'm pretty sure the reason the furrows are so far apart was because they wanted to show her getting further away really fast because it helps reinforce how busy she is and how little time for BS she has.
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:07 pm

Next y'all will try to tell me that real orchard workers don't kick the apples down. :rainbert:

ROBOT B9 wrote:Scuderia, your new avatar and custom text is a thing of beauty and I laugh at it every time.


I feel it is important to second this.
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Postby Mir (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:09 pm

Scuderia Ferrarity wrote:
and looping...
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:smirk: Twilight has clearly improved her dancing.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:36 pm

The Outlander wrote:
I actually kind of like that her friends are insensitive and leave her out to dry, I think it's a neat part of the texture of Season 1. If you really evaluate their characters, the Mane Six of Season 1 are kind of jerks to one another most of the time and have their own petty alliances and rivalries within the group itself, like they just don't quite get this whole friendship thing yet and are still working things out. There's a major tonal shift in their relationship after they learn the lesson The Best Night Ever, one I always viewed as when they really learned the magic of friendship as a whole, not just how cool it was to have buddies in the world. Fitting for a season finale, really.


Oh, sure. Suited for Success also set the scene beautifully for the Nightmarity comic book arc—it is all too plausible that the experience would leave Rarity with a deep seated fear (exploitable by the Nightmare) that her friends would abandon her, if they found somepony else. She gave them her best, they snubbed it, she gave them what they wanted to her ruin and humiliation, and they abandoned her. Yeah, that's probably not going be fixed by a "oh, I forgive you".

As for what's in-character for Rarity, I think she's evolved enough to the point where yeah, maybe she would take a situation like this a step too far. People in real life don't act in-character either if you keep defeating their expectations and draining their willpower. They'll find ways to change, and it'll turn out either adaptive or maladaptive.


I'm certainly not arguing that Rarity would not take things too far—on the contrary, she never does anything by half measures, and there is no stopping a Rarity Enraged. But going country? I think not. Doing that was altogether too low hanging fruit.

What she could have done, and what would still be keeping with pursuing Trenderhoof is going pastoral, which is a completely different thing. As Equestria seems to closely match our own literary traditions, it is a safe assumption that there, too, once was a vogue for pastoral literature, and somepony as cultured as Rarity would know of it. If prancing about (get it?) as a shepherdess was good enough for Queen Marie Antoinette it would be assuredly be good enough for Rarity.
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That I can see happening. That Rarity could absolutely embrace. Playing off the romanticism of idealised pastoral life as imagined by the cultured elite contrasted with the realities of farming could have worked nicely.

Instead, we got hick Rarity. Feh.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:18 pm

Yeah, but Rarity Antoinette wouldn't have been as cartoonishly funny, which (remember) is much more the primary mission of the show than being literary and historically accurate.
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Postby Aramek (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:19 pm

Do you Scandinavians even have "hicks" there? Or is the "slovenly farmer" truly a universal stereotype?

e: I guess American (Canadian lol) media permeates everywhere so...thoroughly, you'd all have a lot of exposure to our subcultures. So, like, when they do stuff like this, where Rarity "talks Southern" I wonder how much of the funny can truly be transmitted?
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Postby Deffon (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:27 pm

Aramek wrote:Do you Scandinavians even have "hicks" there? Or is the "slovenly farmer" truly a universal stereotype?

Yes, we call them danes :gotcha: .
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Postby Bon Snow (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:30 pm

Rarity has shown before, that she doesn't shy away from dirt, if it's really worth it :-P


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And well you will find hicks everywhere :q:
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:49 pm

Bon Snow wrote:And well you will find hicks everywhere :q:


Yeah, farming was, and mostly still is, an important part of human societies worldwide. I think the kind of attitude it takes to maintain a farm just translates across cultures.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:16 pm

Deffon wrote:Yes, we call them danes :gotcha: .


Hey! I may have been born in Denmark, but I’m actually a Swedish citizen. From the perspective of someone from Stockholm (Swedish capitol, though all y’all of course already knew that), ‘hick’ would be ‘anyone outside Stockholm’.
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Postby Tears (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:28 pm

I actually really like that Niels finds Rarity stepping up as a supernatural dark being of awesome power way more feasible than her wearing dungarees.

Such a drama horse :smirk:

And I agree that Rarity going pastoral would have been a delight, but that wouldn't have appealed to Trend's Jack Kerouac-ish ideals about the country life.
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Postby Deffon (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:51 pm

Niels Olof wrote:Hey! I may have been born in Denmark, but I’m actually a Swedish citizen. From the perspective of someone from Stockholm (Swedish capitol, though all y’all of course already knew that), ‘hick’ would be ‘anyone outside Stockholm’.

I was refering more to the farmer sterotype of southern Sweden and Denmark. But yes, I've gotten that impression too when visiting relatives in Stockholm.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:03 pm

Headless Horse wrote:Yeah, but Rarity Antoinette wouldn't have been as cartoonishly funny, which (remember) is much more the primary mission of the show than being literary and historically accurate.


It doesn’t have to be historical accurate, but the show writers are usually not shy about appropriating cultural references, and they can do something more erudite than Grumpy Cat. As for the comedy potential, there should be ample room for satirization on Rarity’s and Trenderhoof’s misapprehensions about farm life, not to mention that Rarity could be delusional enough to claim her (intensely prettified) version of farm living superior to the squalid mess, Applejack was making of it. They could have done something third (and probably would—heck, I could see a parody of Thoreau’s Walden in this setup, especially given Trenderhoof), but instead we got “let’s throw Rarity in the mud! She’s prissy, so that’s comedy! Let’s play opposite day with her sense of aesthetics, that’s clever writing!” I’m annoyed by this, because the first ten minutes of the episode held such potential (up to and including the scene with Spike in the boutique), which was then wasted. The VAs did a tremendous job with what they were given, but this episode could have been funny (it was going strong for the first 10 minutes) rather than funnay, cheap, and flat. Castle Mane-ia was much superior to this, so it’s not like Josh Haber can’t write.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:14 pm

And as for ‘hick’, American Cultural Imperialism (also known simply as ‘Hollywood’) has ensured that many unfortunate stereotypes about southern life (or, say, life in the Appalachians) are spread all over.

Oddly enough, it’s never rural New England, or some corn farmer in Iowa. Nearly always the south and the rednecks.

In Denmark, the notion of hick was stronger before, when there was a clear divide between land and town. These days, the countryside is nearly depopulated as farms have become massive and highly mechanized, and a large percentage of the population in the largest cities come from the countryside, so the divide has become much diluted.
In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
Niels Olof
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:38 pm

Tears wrote:I actually really like that Niels finds Rarity stepping up as a supernatural dark being of awesome power way more feasible than her wearing dungarees.


Ah, but she was seduced by the promise of someone who would never abandon her. And, besides, she looked just gorgeous. :vogue: (I know my fandoms well enough to know that pretty villains are just misunderstood).

Such a drama horse :smirk:


Indubitably!

And I agree that Rarity going pastoral would have been a delight, but that wouldn’t have appealed to Trend's Jack Kerouac-ish ideals about the country life.


Hence the increasing desperation (it wouldn’t have been pretty, but it would have been closer to Rarity). Anyhoo, I’ve always found Thoreau ripe for satire as well. Extolled the simple life in his twee cottage, yet had his mum wash his socks... A Rarity version of that could well have ended in a Spike rebellion, unless of course it was Trenderhoof seeking the simple “authentic” life, in which case we would still have a rebellion on our hands, when Rarity (with Spike in tow, no doubt) got enough, or were shown that they were being used.
In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
Niels Olof
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Wide-ruled paper is for foals.
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Postby Throbulator (?) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:10 pm

Well this certainly was an episode that happened.
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