S06E21: Every Little Thing She Does

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Re: S06E21: Every Little Thing She Does

Postby Dexanth (?) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:44 pm

Niels Olof wrote:
This board needs a favourite button, because that was well put. QFT (Quoted for Truth).

Starlight might well be on a journey of self-discovery (it certainly seems the intention of the writers, if not the effect), but I'm having a real hard time accepting the hurt she inflicts on others in the process. Princess Twilight Sparkle's friends have now twice been forcibly mind controlled by her. Gilda did far, far less back in the day, and had to wait several seasons before redemption, whereas this one seems to be on the narrative fast track to fame and fortune.

She hasn't even had to work on a rock farm. A rock farm!


Twilight Mind Controlled all her friends in Lesson Zero. Gilda, well, part of that was she was more malicious in many ways -and the other is that Gilda comes from the time where the show still thought it was going to be 65 episodes and no more. Back then stuff like 'continuity' just didn't have a place in the show; there was still a standing order to make stuff be watchable in any order, which is one of the things that kind of went by the wayside after Season 3.
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Postby Femto (?) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:17 pm

Is no one going to acknowledge that Applejack was the straight up highlight of the episode?

:applejargh: "If it bleeds I reckon I can kill it."

e: also the crossed out equal mark in SG's room.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:49 pm

If we're gonna bring up little details, I appreciated how Rarity and Starlight had pointedly different pronunciations of "foyer" when they were first gathered there.
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Postby Adelor Lyon (?) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:21 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:If we're gonna bring up little details, I appreciated how Rarity and Starlight had pointedly different pronunciations of "foyer" when they were first gathered there.

Given that VP Luna pronounced it the same way Rarity did, I wonder if that's just how Tabitha pronounces it. It was very funny hearing Rarity and Starlight pronounce it differently back to back, though.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:00 pm

Dexanth wrote:
Twilight Mind Controlled all her friends in Lesson Zero.


That's neither fair nor accurate. First off, the Mane Five did not succumb to the Want-It-Need-It (such a superior name for a spell – the Harry Potter ripoff names of this current episode were rather off-putting) spell, because Twilight directly told them not to look at the enchanted doll (the rest of the town were admittedly less fortunate). Twilight did not have her friends (and certainly not the whole of Ponyville) in mind, when she enchanted Smarty Pants, and I'd say there's a marked difference between creating a magically attractive item to stir up some minor trouble among the CMC, however reprehensible, and deliberately violating and minutely controlling the minds of the Mane Five for expediency's sake. Twilight almost immediately realised her mistake, and tried in vain to fix it, whereas Starlight doubled down on her commands. A moral character can make a mistake, and by trying to rectify it retain moral integrity.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:07 pm

Niels Olof wrote:(such a superior name for a spell – the Harry Potter ripoff names of this current episode were rather off-putting)

I thought it was interesting, really. I took it as a display of Starlight knowing so much about magic that she even knows all the technical terms related to casting spells. Now, magic is a very real thing in Equestria, and I'd expect that all unicorns would receive basic instruction in it (producing light, moving objects, etc.) and most earth ponies and pegasi would know a little about spellcasting thanks to cultural osmosis from the other 33% of the population, but fancy-sounding words like the ones Starlight tossed around for the spell components don't seem like the sort of thing most ponies would know unless they deliberately studied magic. As such, names like "the Want-It-Need-It spell" could easily come into common usage once it had existed and been known about for long enough, but for a spell that Starlight had literally just compiled together, there wouldn't have yet been time for it to earn a common name.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:31 pm

I loved how Twilight said "Traaansfiguration!" with that odd flourish.
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:47 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:If we're gonna bring up little details, I appreciated how Rarity and Starlight had pointedly different pronunciations of "foyer" when they were first gathered there.

Truly Starlight's greatest crime of the episode.
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:44 pm

Niels Olof wrote:
This board needs a favourite button, because that was well put. QFT (Quoted for Truth).


Thank you for such kind words. :flutterunsmith: I am not worthy of such praise. :modesty:
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Postby Rainbow Crash (?) » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:22 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:I thought it was interesting, really. I took it as a display of Starlight knowing so much about magic that she even knows all the technical terms related to casting spells. Now, magic is a very real thing in Equestria, and I'd expect that all unicorns would receive basic instruction in it (producing light, moving objects, etc.) and most earth ponies and pegasi would know a little about spellcasting thanks to cultural osmosis from the other 33% of the population, but fancy-sounding words like the ones Starlight tossed around for the spell components don't seem like the sort of thing most ponies would know unless they deliberately studied magic. As such, names like "the Want-It-Need-It spell" could easily come into common usage once it had existed and been known about for long enough, but for a spell that Starlight had literally just compiled together, there wouldn't have yet been time for it to earn a common name.

Sunburst rambled off a bunch of spell names in the season opener and imo they were a lot neater. And by Starlight's own admission, Sunburst has a deeper knowledge of magic than anyone.

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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:02 pm

It feels like Starlight was using the technical pony-Latin names for all the spells, whereas everyone else uses the more commonly known names. Like calling a rabbit a leporid. At least that is the impression I got.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:30 pm

I'm not the greatest Rainbow Dash admirer around these parts, but I got to hand it to her in this episode: Mad props for being angry over what had been done and expressing that anger.

Re: The spell names. Could well be pony-latin with the added effect of a student trying (a bit too) hard to impress her teacher.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:35 pm

Niels Olof wrote:Re: The spell names. Could well be pony-latin with the added effect of a student trying (a bit too) hard to impress her teacher.


Time to theorycraft a thousand years of pony linguistic development, and which societies would be more likely to develop different spells, and whether different unicorns find different schools of spells easier to learn, and :ponynet:
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Postby Aramek (?) » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:22 pm

Niels Olof wrote:I'm not the greatest Rainbow Dash admirer around these parts, but I got to hand it to her in this episode: Mad props for being angry over what had been done and expressing that anger.

Re: The spell names. Could well be pony-latin with the added effect of a student trying (a bit too) hard to impress her teacher.

Dash should have used the F word.
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Postby Adelor Lyon (?) » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:33 pm

Aramek wrote:Dash should have used the F word.

Only Fluttershy has a mouth that filthy: she's used harsh language in two separate episodes.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:38 pm

Adelor Lyon wrote:Only Fluttershy has a mouth that filthy: she's used harsh language in two separate episodes.


Only when she's really peeved though.
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Postby Aramek (?) » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:37 pm

Speaking of which I really enjoyed the mouth animation when she did that. When she used it came out with a burst like her cheeks puffed and it crawled out.
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Postby Auxiliatrix (?) » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:15 pm

I know I'm pretty late to the party ( :icky: ), but I have to say that this episode really annoys me in every conceivable fashion.

Starlight starts out the episode bragging about accomplishments, which didn't put her on my good side, but the scene where she has all of Twilight's friends in the castle (before using the spell) completely ruined her for me. She literally gets annoyed at Fluttershy after several seconds of her talking, interrupting her and being generally rude. I get that Starlight is nervous, but the scene in question makes her look like she doesn't care in the slightest about what Twilight's friends want.

Then, of course, Starlight uses the spell. Starlight has learned several times that she shouldn't use magic to get what she wants ("The Cutie Map" and "No Second Prances"), and while she may be desperate, this does seem like a regression for her development. It's not the biggest problem I have, but I definitely don't think it was 100% justified.

Then, when Starlight actually does the spell, she literally doesn't do anything with it. She doesn't make the dress with Rarity, she gets bored at Applejack's stories, and... well, Pinkie makes cakes incredibly fast, so I understand how she may not be able to help in that department. It just annoys me that, even when Starlight starts to actually get what she wants, she still isn't satisfied at all and barely makes an effort to do any of the tasks as intended. She just lets the hypnotized Mane 6 do everything.

Starlight should have came to realization that what she did was wrong without Twilight. Twilight should act as a teacher sometimes, yes, but Starlight's apology isn't nearly as earned when Twilight just told Starlight to do it, and explained exactly what went wrong.

The whole pony "hangover" was funny, though. :-P

Lastly, why did Starlight still have to come out on top in the end? Why did she HAVE to succeed in the lessons in the end, and, in an essence, get rewarded for her actions? It does not feel earned at all, at least to me.

I started to think Starlight was pretty okay after "No Second Prances", but this episode kinda reverted all of that. Now, I actively dislike her, and that's super unfortunate, considering she had the potential to be more than a Sunset-clone or a weak "reformed" villain. Maybe the finale will fix some things!

Anyway, I don't know if you'll agree with me on any of this, but I had to vent a little bit. :byopinkie:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:06 pm

Remember that, to Starlight, the whole point of this was to impress Twilight. This didn't have so much to do with sharing in the interests of any of the other five; no, to her socialization was just another test, and she thought she could pass that test via creativity in spellcasting instead of doing it the old-fashioned way. She wasn't necessarily using magic selfishly, but rather she was doing it in a way that she genuinely thought best.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:27 pm

Well, it was really selfish, and she doesn't really care much about what Twilight's friends want. But that's sort of the point of the episode.

It just doesn't make her look like great main character material, is all. :awkward:
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Postby Auxiliatrix (?) » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:54 am

SlateSlabrock wrote:Well, it was really selfish, and she doesn't really care much about what Twilight's friends want. But that's sort of the point of the episode.

It just doesn't make her look like great main character material, is all. :awkward:


Yeah, that's my problem. I know Starlight is supposed to be in the wrong, but I find her nearly intolerable. Therefore, seeing her kind of come out on top anyway, and having everything be solved after a decent (yet swift) apology just rubs me the wrong way entirely.

I know Twilight is supposed to be the mentor, but I really think that Starlight should have figured out how to solve the situation by herself. That way, she learns her lesson, yet proves that she can take initiative and apply her knowledge. She may need a little guidance from Twilight, but the way she just spells it out weakens the apology for me.

Remember, while Twilight was Celestia's pupil, Celestia didn't need to explain the morals and lessons to Twilight, or specifically "set up" lessons for her. Twilight was allowed to interact and fix things herself, which is what I feel "No Second Prances" hinted at, yet, as of now, hasn't really applied.

Fizzbuzz wrote:Remember that, to Starlight, the whole point of this was to impress Twilight. This didn't have so much to do with sharing in the interests of any of the other five; no, to her socialization was just another test, and she thought she could pass that test via creativity in spellcasting instead of doing it the old-fashioned way. She wasn't necessarily using magic selfishly, but rather she was doing it in a way that she genuinely thought best.


I suppose you have a point in some way, and while I would argue that Starlight has used magic in the past to try and "get what she wants" to poor results, I would say that just because Starlight wants to impress Twilight doesn't mean Starlight has to show little care for... well, anyone, really. Starlight may be worried about Twilight, and I can see why she may want to cut corners with the spell, but when she acts like she, basically, doesn't care for any of the Mane 6 and what they have to say, it just instantly makes her unlikable, and I don't think the ending makes up for the majority of her actions throughout the episode.

This was a negative, super serious post. Sorry about that. :deflated:

Have some fun Pinkie smilies! :party: :byopinkie: :rimshot: :q:
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Postby Ransom (?) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:33 am

Wow, I am way late to comment on this.

See, I only sporadically watched season 6 and actually saw other episodes, like the finale, before this one. I only just now watched it.

I'm surprised at how much I enjoyed it. So many little things you can point too, the small details about how Starlight casts magic, the wonderful 'sparring' Twilight and Starlight do which makes me wish for more complex magic fights in the show, seeing Starlight's room with the no equal sign and the relatable procrastinating, etc.

I...really don't have any way to tell you that you're wrong if you think Starflight got off easy. It is a fantasy cartoon and persuasion spells aren't real, so, like Xavier's mind reading I have a hard time saying what is and isn't ethical :pinkieshrug: No question she did wrong but if the show wants to play it as a breach of trust vs something horribly sinister I guess I'll go along with it. The results were funny though, no question :amazing:

I'll say that, taken by itself, Starflight's apology actually hit a pretty clear set of appropriate notes, in terms of not making excuses and offering to reconcile, without making it feel like they were obligated to just let it slide. So good for that.
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Postby Aramek (?) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:20 pm

Watch the rest of six! It's good!
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