S04E25-26: Twilight's Kingdom

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Re: S04E25-26: Twilight's Kingdom

Postby The Doctor (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 7:15 pm

SoundMonkey44 wrote:

And that's why some people don't care for her much. She needs to be wrong at least once in the show!

I think this is why I like Comic Celestia over show Celestia, comic Celestia isn't perfect. :twiright:


Show Celestia was wrong about Cadance. And about her ability to defeat Chrysalis (though to be fair even Chrysalis was shocked at how powerful the love energy she absorbed was).
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Postby Perpetual Lurker (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 7:16 pm

Also Sunset Shimmer was a pretty big failure on her part.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 7:17 pm

I assume Celestia didn't plan on the library being totalled. I guess that's evidence that even the best laid plans of Sun Pony go awry. :gotcha: :-/
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 7:40 pm

Fair enough. :-P

Still is love an ep where Celestia had a bad day, is wrong about every choice she makes & the mane six have to come in & fix things. XD

One thing I did like about the season finale in terms of Celestia. We learn she actually sleeps! XD
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 7:46 pm

The Doctor wrote:Show Celestia was wrong about Cadance. And about her ability to defeat Chrysalis (though to be fair even Chrysalis was shocked at how powerful the love energy she absorbed was).

Wrong about Cadance... or providing Twilight & Co. with a chance to defeat the changelings under their own power?

...or providing a double-bluff to allow Cadance and Shining Armor to prove the strength of their love?!

Clearly her true objective in eleven-dimensional chess is to trick us, the viewers, into thinking even she can't be that clairvoyant! Image
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Postby Ransom (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 8:30 pm

Celestia's plans fail, she just has a neverending string of backup plans.

Had Twilight failed, she would have led Cerberus and a host of freed villains from Tartarus against Tirek. Obviously, she wanted to avoid that.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 8:51 pm

You know, that's a good point. Tirek puts them in Tartarus and guarded by Cerberus.

We know Cerberus is a nice dog, so much that Celestia just put out a lost dog flyer when he got loose.

:gotcha: they were never in any danger and I guess you could hardly even say they were captured.

:-D just when you think Celesta is too awesome to be any more awesome.
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Postby Chaos Sonic (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 8:58 pm

Dexanth wrote:I can't see -Discord- planning it out, because the problem is every line of his after Tirek turns on him is so genuine that I can't see it being fake.

I can't see Discord planning it out because, personally, I can't see Discord planning anything out, long term. He's a being of chaos, after all. :-P
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Postby Durandal (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 9:02 pm

Chaos Sonic wrote:I can't see Discord planning it out because, personally, I can't see Discord planning anything out, long term. He's a being of chaos, after all. :-P


But that doesn't keep him from having lots of backup plans that he can switch to if things change
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 9:02 pm

He planned the seeds thing, right? :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Aramek (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 9:14 pm

Headless Horse wrote:He planned the seeds thing, right? :pinkieshrug:

If I remember correctly, didn't he think they'd instantly sprout and do some attack or something?

Then it was, like, "Oh, they sprouted a thousand+ years later. Well, that's good too!"
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Postby doodlesplat (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 10:32 pm

There's a note of bittersweet farewell in the ending song that I'm having a hard time ignoring. I know this is not the last season, but my feelings are acting as if it was. The group photo and fade out feels like the show is leaving us with a parting memento to cherish. The lyrics feel like a sincere reassurance of "we must part ways now, but we'll be together in spirit". MMC's ending could've doubled as a series finale but this ending really feels as if it was meant to be one. I suspect that this storybook, first opened many years ago, when it does eventually close, is going to hit me pretty hard.
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Postby DaBatGuy (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 10:34 pm

Foxfyre wrote:I really doubt Celestia would put the entirety of Equestria and possibly the world on the line just to teach Discord about friendship.

Counting "Friendship is Magic", "the Crystal Empire", "Keep Calm and Flutter On" it wouldn't be the first time she played fast and loose with Equestria's safety to teach a moral.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 10:50 pm

doodlesplat wrote:There's a note of bittersweet farewell in the ending song that I'm having a hard time ignoring. I know this is not the last season, but my feelings are acting as if it was. The group photo and fade out feels like the show is leaving us with a parting memento to cherish. The lyrics feel like a sincere reassurance of "we must part ways now, but we'll be together in spirit". MMC's ending could've doubled as a series finale but this ending really feels as if it was meant to be one. I suspect that this storybook, first opened many years ago, when it does eventually close, is going to hit me pretty hard.
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Yea. This really really -would- have been a high point series ender, bittersweet yet offering closure, even if we don't get to see the adventures to come.

Which is why I am so glad that it is not the series ender, because there is so much more to explore, enjoy, and well, :ponydrugs:
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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 10:51 pm

DaBatGuy wrote:Counting "Friendship is Magic", "the Crystal Empire", "Keep Calm and Flutter On" it wouldn't be the first time she played fast and loose with Equestria's safety to teach a moral.


Celestia is a terrible ruler. :-I
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 10:53 pm

Tailspin wrote:
Celestia is a terrible ruler. :-I


Who should we put in charge then?

:unenthused: The one with two attempted genocides

:wingsright: :allright: One of the two who brainwashes others?
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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 10:55 pm

The Doctor wrote:
Who should we put in charge then?

:unenthused: The one with two attempted genocides

:wingsright: :allright: One of the two who brainwashes others?


The people. :chillin:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 10:59 pm

Tailspin wrote:
The people. :chillin:


The people chose Celestia.

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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 11:01 pm

The Doctor wrote:
The people chose Celestia.

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They chose...poorly.
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Postby AlliterativeAxolotl (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 11:08 pm

Actually it was Celestia who chose the people

:pcstare: Tiny round marshmallow horses? Oh well, you take what you get.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 11:13 pm

That's, like, the opposite of choosing. :-I
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 11:14 pm

Equestria is ruled on a very simple principal. Whoever is the biggest, is the bestest. It's worked well for them for thousands of years.
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Postby AlliterativeAxolotl (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 11:33 pm

I have this theory that Celestia was a good deal more active in her early years as a regent, saving Equestria all by herself all the time, until she realized that this made her subjects complacent and lazy, not being able to fight any threat by themselves.

So instead, she decided to use her wits and experience to plan long-term; to manipulate events in a way that would make everyone stronger in the end; if things get serious she can still always jump into action and do her thing, but mostly she really wants her subjects to do things by themselves.

She's like Superman mixed with Gandalf, see :pcstare:
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 11:55 pm

I too think this :dwi:

This post is totally not an excuse to just use :dwi: repeatedly.

:dwi:
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Postby Wylie (?) » Wed May 14, 2014 11:59 pm

See, I should have figured that saying something like that would trigger Poe's law. Celestia isn't nearly the chessmaster everyone seems to want to think she is. She's wise, almost preternaturally so, but she's not infallible. Which is why it kinda bugs me that everything that happens in these season-bookend adventures gets wrangled into All Just A Part Of Celestia's Master Plan™.

I think Celestia has a good idea of what her ponies need, and most of all she knows it's not usually her fixing everything for them. If she went all PRINCESS LASER GOD MODE every time something threatened Equestria, she'd be doing both herself and her subjects a grave disservice. Multiply that by a thousand years of rule and you get the Celestia we have. If she's a chessmaster, it's because she's got a whole lot of experience playing the game, not that she necessarily knows what the moves are ahead of time.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 12:01 am

Oh, I don't think she knew Tirek was going to escape, necessarily.

I just think as soon as she found out, she turned his escape to her advantage.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 12:08 am

Dexanth wrote:Oh, I don't think she knew Tirek was going to escape, necessarily.

I just think as soon as she found out, she turned his escape to her advantage.


:pcstare: Oh for bucks sake. It's been a year and Twilight still hasn't found those keys.

:speakest: Sister, Tirek has escaped.

:pcstare: Luna... fetch me my whiteboard....
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Postby AlliterativeAxolotl (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 12:09 am

I don't think she's infallibe or omniscient either. Her plans can fail, and unexpected things can happen. She has a lot of experience and has seen quite a lot of things in her long lifetime so that balances matters out a bit, but there are still events out of context - the invasion of the changelings for example - which might take her by surprise.

It might also be a reason why she wants there to be other princesses and powerful ponies like the Elements of Harmony etc, maybe she's afraid that she might get too confident otherwise?

All theory, of course. Maybe she actually is god-like and omniscient, and she can't do things at times because of prophecy or arcane laws or whatever might become canon later on for reasons :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 12:10 am

Am I the only one who thought they were going to turn the keys with their teeth? I mean, it totally looks like they're going to. I'm not sure if using their hooves is more or less awkward :v:
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 12:18 am

Oh no, I totally saw that too and was disappointed when they didn't.
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Postby Shadowwalker (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 12:23 am

I expected it to magically turn. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 12:28 am

First part's deleted scene is out:
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Postby citric (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 12:46 am

AlliterativeAxolotl wrote:All theory, of course. Maybe she actually is god-like and omniscient, and she can't do things at times because of prophecy or arcane laws or whatever might become canon later on for reasons

According to Faust, Celestia has a sense of destiny about her, and thus she gave Twilight the dragon egg test based on a hunch she had. Faust's word is no longer law, obviously, but it does seem fairly in line with what we know about Celestia.

The theory she knowingly picked out Twilight to groom her to rescue Luna as part of the grand plan just seems emotionally manipulative to me for some reason. :pcstare:
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Postby Minty (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 12:52 am

I think it's more interesting to have Discord getting taken to the wrong side and learning a lesson than Discord planned everything and came out on top because Discord is great at planning everything etc. etc.

It's nice too see him show a vulnerable side. I actually liked him in this episode.
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Postby Peregrine (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 12:54 am

I support the princess who rules through subtle manipulations! Princess Celestia, rules with a light touch. :dwi:

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Postby AlliterativeAxolotl (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 12:58 am

Actually it would be great to have an episode from Celestia's point of view, where we get a glimpse into her mind...

...and instead of a cunning tactician who plans eons in advance we have a big horse princess who's really, really, really good at making stuff up on the fly and improvising things :dwi:

Bonus points if it's Twilight who makes this discovery and it's mostly played for laughs :-I
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 1:01 am

:gotcha: Celestia: Element of quick planning & ridiculously good luck! XD
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Postby AlliterativeAxolotl (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 1:08 am

This adds just more fuel for the theory that Celestia is actually Pinkie Pie, you know :sbahj:
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 1:10 am

AlliterativeAxolotl wrote:Actually it would be great to have an episode from Celestia's point of view, where we get a glimpse into her mind...


I support this, if only for the chance of another Philomena appearance. :wantitneedit:

Seriously, show, it's been three years.
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Postby AlliterativeAxolotl (?) » Thu May 15, 2014 1:17 am

We're derailing the thread a bit I'm afraid, so let's talk about... Cadance's performance in this two-parter, how about that :-I
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