S04E22: Testing Testing 1, 2, 3

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Re: S04E22: Testing Testing 1, 2, 3

Postby ZamuelNow (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:07 am

Pingcode wrote:
I'll point out that the reason Firefly isn't in the series is because Hasbro doesn't have her copyright. Passing it off as a Faust shout-out is just good sense - actually admitting it was a shout-out to G1 could have landed them in hot water. Best to pass it off as the 'less fitting but plausibly deniable' one.


Firefly is getting a G1 style toy this month. Whatever rights issues they may have had must have gotten worked out since the show started. Plus, it's been argued a few times that the rights issues may not be as clear cut of a "can't use them" as originally claimed.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:10 am

ZamuelNow wrote:
Firefly is getting a G1 style toy this month. Whatever rights issues they may have had must have gotten worked out since the show started. Plus, it's been argued a few times that the rights issues may not be as clear cut of a "can't use them" as originally claimed.


I suspect it's more along the lines that if they DID use Firefly in the show, they'd have to pay the creator. Hasbro might own the character, but they still have royalties. Similar thing happened on Star Trek. TNG one off character left such an impression that a Voyager character was made to be just like him, they even had the same actor play the role in Voyager. Since they changed the name and ever-so-slightly changed the backstory, they didn't have to pay royalties to the writers of the TNG episode for creating the character.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:10 am

I don't know about adorable, "back when they were happy" has some serious dark undertones.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:11 am

It's Trademark, not copyright! And to my knowledge it's because Firefly's trademark has been held by a certain show about space cowboys.

The more you know! :fancyhat: :areyousure:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:12 am

Wayoshi wrote:I don't know about adorable, "back when they were happy" has some serious dark undertones.


Well, I don't think there was meant to be any implication that Celestia and Luna aren't happy NOW. I took it entirely to mean that since Wonderbolt's History had major events around the time of Luna's banishment, one would think the two were happier before that happened.

Dexanth wrote:It's Trademark, not copyright! And to my knowledge it's because Firefly's trademark has been held by a certain show about space cowboys.

The more you know! :fancyhat: :areyousure:


They can't possibly hold a trademark to the name of an animal, can they? Especially when one is a talking pony made in the 80's an another is a class of sci fi ships in the early 2000's.
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Postby Dilbert As Fuck (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:15 am

Today's episode was pretty good RD was less of a .... well you know.

The rap song was cringy, but the rest of the episode was good. I think the only way it could be better was if RD got a D- like that simpsons episode.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:16 am

Of course now they're OK, but it just felt kinda... crude? to say they were sad for those 1000 years. Obvious as hell it is the case.
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Postby ZamuelNow (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:24 am

The Doctor wrote:They can't possibly hold a trademark to the name of an animal, can they? Especially when one is a talking pony made in the 80's an another is a class of sci fi ships in the early 2000's.


Yes and no. Not in itself they can't but they can hold one over a specific usage. Flash as a superhero and a piece of software don't bump heads but you make a different superhero named The Flash and Time Warner's gonna have words with you. Though arguably the writers and/or Hasbro just need to figure out another 'Twilight Velvet' name convection. Intrigued they didn't now that I'm finding out some interesting things about the start of FiM.

But I wholly believe AKR honestly didn't know who Firefly is. The show writers vary wildly on how much they know about older gen.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:28 am

Wayoshi wrote:Of course now they're OK, but it just felt kinda... crude? to say they were sad for those 1000 years. Obvious as hell it is the case.


Maybe. But it seems a Fluttershy way to measure time periods by Happy and Post-happy. :allears:
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:31 am

Regarding the mid-air shove, I love that Twilight's first instinct was Dash is being a violent jerk. :awesomedash:

I really do love it when they play up interpersonal conflict and character flaws, and Dash has always seemed like the character most likely to punch you in the jaw if you push her buttons.

(AJ is #2 but only if you insult her family.)

Also, despite the obvious toy promo, I liked that they made Hot Air Balloon pony the pilot of this thing:

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Postby Big Boss (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:31 am

That helicopter is fucking rad and I will hear nothing bad about it.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:34 am

I would have preferred a Zeppelin again, but that pony looks so determined I have to respect that.
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:35 am

PictishBeast wrote:Also, despite the obvious toy promo, I liked that they made Hot Air Balloon pony the pilot of this thing:

Image


I like how, as usual, she still looks incredibly pissed.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:37 am

The Outlander wrote:
I like how, as usual, she still looks incredibly pissed.


Well, some Namby Pamby Pony Princess did just get in her flight path and expected the Earth pony to move out of her way.
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Postby Wylie (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:39 am

Hey, Everybody! Trademark Doesn't Work Like That!

They didn't call Dash "Firefly" because they didn't have an active trademark on the name. Furthermore, they couldn't claim trademark on the name because they let it lapse sometime long ago.

That doesn't mean they are prevented from making a new pony toy and calling it "Firefly," though. It also doesn't mean they don't have any trademark rights if someone else tries to make an identical toy Firefly and sell it. It just means they can't have a registered trademark for "Firefly" as a pony toy anymore- meaning they can't use the little ® symbol next to the name on the packaging. They can still use ™, though!

Also, Joss Whedon's space cowboys don't have anything to do with it. Science fiction and kid's cartoons are not the same thing, and you can trademark the same name for two different things, as long as they're not in the same line of business. For example, Delta Faucets and Delta Airlines are completely unrelated companies. You don't walk into your local giant home-improvement store and think "Hmm, am I buying a faucet or getting tickets with a connecting flight in Atlanta? I JUST DON'T KNOW I'M SO CONFUSED :gonkity: "

So: Hasbro wanted pony names for G4 that they could hold registered trademarks for. They either invented them (Twilight Sparkle) or reused recently-used names that they already had lying about (the rest of the 6, Scootaloo, Cheerilee, etc.)
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Postby Wylie (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:41 am

Oh also I finally just now watched the episode and it was crazy good so there's that as well. :v:
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Postby ZamuelNow (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:46 am

PictishBeast wrote:Also, despite the obvious toy promo, I liked that they made Hot Air Balloon pony the pilot of this thing:

Image


I feel kinda cheated. The show version looks better than the toy version, plus it was yet another Pinkie Pie as opposed to a Cherry Berry re-release. That said, it's a really cool toy. The beanie helmet is almost worth the cost alone. Oh well, yet another reason I need to get my customization skills up.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:48 am

Mr. Big wrote:Image

Anyone find Spike's face creepy during this scene? :starity:


That entire sequence was so goddamn funny. I could never have scripted that in a million years. It would never have occurred to me to go there in the first place.

And even if AKR wrote the whole thing down on paper there's a million ways it could have gone wrong in the staging and animation, where the idea would have just landed with an ehhhhhhh....

But that wordless rocking, and that silly look on Dash's face, and the goofy coordinated way that Spike and Owlowlicious join in, and that Spike is banging on a snare drum for some reason, and then Twilight turns around and suddenly it's CHEESE IT, IT'S THE FUZZ

Like, where goes that even come from? It's fucking bonkers. :-D
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:50 am

ZamuelNow wrote:
The show version looks better than the toy version


Hahaha, this has been true for pretty much the entire run. At this point, I really don't want to see Twilight Sparkle's Badass Library Playset, or any of the other clearly marketable and awe-inspiring homes of the mane six (seriously, their homes are like 80s cartoon villain bases, they're designed to be sold), because the toys would probably look terrible and come with the wrong set-pieces or something.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:54 am

:-/ Can you repeat even one little bit of my lesson?

:awkward: *rock* ?



I mean fuuuuuuuuuck. :lol:

This is the kind of scene I am dying to know how people like AKR script them. What do they write down? Same with that little "And that pony is..." gesture that RD does in the cold open. How do you convey a sight gag or visual acting in text? I can't even do it now, having actually seen the episode and talking to a bunch of people who have also seen it. How do you visualize it out of nowhere and commit it to paper in a way that some animators halfway around the world can bring it to life in a way that you'll be blown away by?

Any how has nobody else in TV animation figured it out?
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:58 am

I guess it helps that the background and storyboard artists are right there in Vancouver and have a highly talented and passionate bunch of people working there. With it being made in Flash, too, I'm sure the all-digital format makes the revision process much easier than it ever was in traditional cel animation.
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Postby ZamuelNow (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:08 am

The Outlander wrote:
Hahaha, this has been true for pretty much the entire run. At this point, I really don't want to see Twilight Sparkle's Badass Library Playset, or any of the other clearly marketable and awe-inspiring homes of the mane six (seriously, their homes are like 80s cartoon villain bases, they're designed to be sold), because the toys would probably look terrible and come with the wrong set-pieces or something.


Could be far worse. While there's missteps here and there, Pinkie Pie's Rainbow Helicopter is the goal they should aim for. Not perfect but close enough.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:14 am

Notice Twilight seems surprised after teleporting herself and Dash into the library. I like to think it was an unintentional teleport like back in season 1, she had to get started right away and she just couldn't help it :v:
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:40 am

Huh, I just noticed an animation mistake while rewatching on the Hub website (yes, they already have it up)

Twilight's lips don't move when she says "Headed by General Firefly" at the 4:12 mark.

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I'm guessing everybody was too distracted by the Dash, Spike, and Owlicious in the background to notice. :iamapony:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:43 am

It's understandable. It's just so delightful even the animators couldn't keep their attention focused :-D
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Postby Kitsune (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:44 am

Mr. Big wrote:I'm guessing everybody was too distracted by the Dash, Spike, and Owlicious in the background to notice. :iamapony:


I was so focused on the idiot concert back there that I forgot Twi even had dialogue :-I

Also, found this gem on tumblr.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:50 am

Mr. Big wrote:Huh, I just noticed an animation mistake while rewatching on the Hub website (yes, they already have it up)

Twilight's lips don't move when she says "Headed by General Firefly" at the 4:12 mark.

Image

I'm guessing everybody was too distracted by the Dash, Spike, and Owlicious in the background to notice. :iamapony:


Rainbow Dash is like the cool aunt so Spike and Owlicious think it's fun time.
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Postby Durandal (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:07 am

Pinkie Pie is Flava Flav, and I am dead. :amazing:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:26 am

More fun has never been had in this library. :gotcha:

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Postby Minty (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:30 am

Twilight is a princess. She doesn't need to move her lips like a peasant. :twiright:
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:31 am

kefkafloyd wrote:That helicopter is fucking rad and I will hear nothing bad about it.



I'll see your helicopter and raise this barn steampunk swan-blimp-ship piloted by AJ's cool relatives.

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If I had family members that cool, I might actually attend a reunion or two.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:31 am

A few things after a rewatch:

Rainbow's "I'm gonna fail I'm gonna fail I'm gonna fail -- AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!" is of course completely unfair to Twilight, which is what makes it such a realistic, compelling character bit. As viewers we understand that Dash is insecure and under pressure and lashing out and that she doesn't really mean it. Still, you don't usually see kids shows going there.

Fluttershy is so giddy watching the pets perform, look at her. :allears: Meanwhile Dash is all "arrruuuhhhh?" and Twilight is all "I know all this already Christ almighty Fluttershy get on with it"
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:vogue: "I am going to ignore that comment out of my desire to help you."

The way Twilight says "loooook at meeee" here is really funny.
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When Dash says "No cards" she presses down on the tip of Twilight's horn like she's extinguishing a candle. (Twilight is of course rotating all the flash cards around herself like they're satellites in her own personal orbit.)

Pulp Fiction reference, maybe?
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EDIT:
Foxfyre wrote:the idiot concert

bwaaaa hahaha
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:35 am

If that's a Pulp Fiction reference, then what's this?

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:iamapony:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:40 am

PictishBeast wrote:A few things after a rewatch:

Rainbow's "I'm gonna fail I'm gonna fail I'm gonna fail -- AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!" is of course completely unfair to Twilight, which is what makes it such a realistic, compelling character bit. As viewers we understand that Dash is insecure and under pressure and lashing out and that she doesn't really mean it. Still, you don't usually see kids shows going there.

Fluttershy is so giddy watching the pets perform, look at her. :allears: Meanwhile Dash is all "arrruuuhhhh?" and Twilight is all "I know all this already Christ almighty Fluttershy get on with it"
Image


Another little touch I liked that shows what good friends Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy are, is when Fluttershy says she will help her study. Dash was never hyped for learning from Twilihgt, but she lets lose a big smile when Fluttershy offers to help. :allears: :3:
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:47 am

Headless Horse wrote:If that's a Pulp Fiction reference, then what's this?


I was surprised Twilight was okay with marking up a book using highlighter. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:55 am

PictishBeast wrote:
I was surprised Twilight was okay with marking up a book using highlighter. :pinkieshrug:


And the way she just carelessly crumpled the pages that fell off, and didn't really care when she dropped them after RD scared her. Must be a shitty book.
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:59 am

Twilight has archive copies and editing copies, just like any professor. :twiright:
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:00 am

One bit I like was when Rainbow placed that bicycle horn on Twilight's chair. I wonder if they originally planned on a whoopee cushion for that bit :gotcha:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:02 am

She probably also has the



:-D TEACHER'S EDITION :flail:



E: ^^ I hope against hope that it was meant as a "horn" joke :smirk:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:03 am

Headless Horse wrote:She probably also has the



:-D TEACHER'S EDITION :flail:


Oh please, Twilight doesn't need the teachers edition.
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