S04E14: Filli Vanilli

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Re: S04E14: Filli Vanilli

Postby Space Ghost (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:11 pm

The Doctor wrote:
Twist has always been cool. This kid is Pipsqueak mark 2.


I think the one thing we can both agree on is that that kid is annoying.


(and worse than twist)
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:13 pm

New theory: this episode was just an excuse to make a "hoarse" pun :v:
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Postby Swift (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:14 pm



Funny how they're still reusing Lauren's old sketches from her story bible like this... especially since this is from when Fluttershy was an earth pony. :v:

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...and they didn't bother to add wings. :smirk:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:15 pm

By this point, that drawing is an old show asset—it was in GIYC (AJ was using her image to sell apple juice) :twasnothin:
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Postby Space Ghost (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:16 pm

Highbrow Dash wrote:New theory: this episode was just an excuse to make a "hoarse" pun :v:


They missed an opprotunity to make it "a little hoarse".
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:18 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:To add to that, I wonder if the CMC straight-up weren't invited or if they just chose not to go.

They probably chose not to go... I mean look how young Zhipperwhill apears to be compared to the CMC. And she just got her cutemark?? God the jealousy probably would have killed them... Especially the double whammy with Scoots...
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Postby Throbulator (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:24 pm

I expected mediocre to bad from this episode and got blown away. Holy cow it's great, though I'm iffy on Pinkie's characterization.

Tailspin wrote:That kid is the new Twist. :gotcha:

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Postby Ransom (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:25 pm

Venusy wrote:Basically. Fluttershy's thought process needed explaining to the audience, and it needed to be vocalized so that the other characters could explain that those thoughts aren't correct and whap them with a newspaper. The only other alternative way of doing this would have been for Fluttershy to vocalize those words herself, but that might have confused kids into thinking the rest were admonishing her instead of that thought process.

That's a pretty good take on it.I'll admit I couldn't say Pinkie wasn't a jerk, but I guess I was sort of dreading online responses. Not so much here, even with people who disliked her attitude it was more a character discussion, it's just I've been a few places where Pinkie is clearly the target of some bronies' pent up issues with extroverts and it's a little too personal with them. It's like...Kimi Sparkle and Rarity :smirk:

Anyways, what a fun little episode. Big Mac sings! Zecora returns! Fluttershy goes through the same fear and growth plot from HF yet it feels fresh! AJ/Big Mac exposition gag! Funny background gags galore! Cheerilee and Mac that much closer to canon :smug: (don't ban me please!)

That Pinkie was sooo rude was probably the closest I could come to a complaint but it's not really a big deal. I probably would have dialed it back but I'm probably a gutless storyteller too. That and I thought OC dad was a little too much, the filly was cute as all get out so that makes up for that. 8.9/10.
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Postby Swift (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:26 pm

Headless Horse wrote:By this point, that drawing is an old show asset—it was in GIYC (AJ was using her image to sell apple juice) :twasnothin:


Oh hey, you're right. Didn't realize that.

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Oddly, they added wings on the paper illustrations, but not on the wooden sign up top. :-I
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:28 pm

Ransom wrote:That Pinkie was sooo rude was probably the closest I could come to a complaint but it's not really a big deal. I probably would have dialed it back but I'm probably a gutless storyteller too. That and I thought OC dad was a little too much, the filly was cute as all get out so that makes up for that. 8.9/10.


Yeah, that's what I was getting at earlier—I think if they had dialed Pinkie back at all, she would have come off as flat and mischaracterized and wrong. But this was more extreme than that, to the point where it pushed past the uncanny valley of "out of character" and achieved a new height of "WTF Pinkie :amazing: "

It felt courageous and confident to me. Like they're not afraid to fuck with the formula. Some shows at this point would be all "HOLY SHIT WE GOT FANS HOW DO WE KEEP IT THIS WAY EXACTLY FOREVER :flail: ". But this show isn't. It's just doing its thing. Being surprising, without overthinking it. Not being bound by expectation. Same as always.
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Postby Rainbow Crash (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:48 pm

This episode was AWESOME :awesomedash: Probably my favorite of the season.

Thankfully, I didn't see any spoilers so everything was a wonderful surprise. I love acapella, so the Ponytones were great. Fluttershy's arc was superb, especially the resolution. Seeing her sing her heart out simply for the love of the music behind stage was lovely :allears:

The poison joke gag was one of my favorite moments in season 1, so I saw where they were going with Fluttershy and loved every minute of it.
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Postby Mordja (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:10 pm

My bad Headless. Guess I'm still agreeing with you, then. :-I
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:36 pm

Venusy wrote:Fluttershy's thought process needed explaining to the audience, and it needed to be vocalized so that the other characters could explain that those thoughts aren't correct and whap them with a newspaper. The only other alternative way of doing this would have been for Fluttershy to vocalize those words herself, but that might have confused kids into thinking the rest were admonishing her instead of that thought process.


At first, what I thought was happening was that Pinkie wasn't actually saying this catastrophic thing, that's just how Fluts' brain was interpreting it; i.e. her interior monologue was literally putting words in Pinkie's mouth. But the reactions of the others confirmed that Pinkie really was saying these things.

It's weird, and not weird in the way that Pinkie normally is weird, so the characterization felt off to me. OTOH, I also felt those scenes were really funny and well-acted and well-directed, and sometimes I'm OK taking the bad with the good.

Also I'm now on board with giving a CMC their mark during their show, if only for the cuteceneara episode that would result.
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Postby Wylie (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:49 pm

You know, if we're really going to have as much Pony show as the market will bear, I want them to go ahead and get their marks too. Their cutecenareas will be great to see, and they're such a matched set at this point that they're still going to go do awesome things together even if they don't have to look at their butts afterwards anymore.
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Postby MLPMan (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:50 pm

The episode was better than I thought it would be (based off of the two previews I saw), and I knew it wouldn't have been Fluttershy's key episode because the idea that her singing for a group would give her one of the keys felt very off to me. Most likely she'll get her key in the "It Ain't Easy Being Breezies" episode because it has Fluttershy, and animals (which is her forte).

Also, I don't get the hate for Pinkie Pie this episode. She was just being Pinkie, and it would have been weird if she had restrained herself. Although, from what I have seen from "Castle Mane-ia" she does seem pretty trollish (especially when she went, and instigated RD's and AJ's competition at the end of that episode).

Nonetheless I still like Pinkie, and this was a better episode than I thought it would be.

And I'm back =)
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:51 pm

So they reused GIYC's AJ stand then, with recoloring. OK

Act II (2/2)

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:allears: #5

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Instant adoption!

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>Watermark hides beaver

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As we know, you can't get away from Pinkie.

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:vogue:

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She has a dog cutie mark, but a pony based off of I guess a hyper-moving bird? Doesn't sound too dog-friendly...

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Wait - crown, asking Dad for a big favor... :scheming:

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It's a party everyday in Ponyville indeed.

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:sbahj: :idea:

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So much hype

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Oh no, an incompetent politician is entering the screen!

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:flutterdear: : Maybe I'm still a bat...

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:allears: Sitting in a barrel

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Aloe, Lotus! I want to see more of you! :allears:

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I couldn't imagine a capella being relaxing spa background music, but I guess so!

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Didn't even check your own big spa, Aloe/Lotus? lmao.

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No DT... :ponder:

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:spike101: : Sugarcube is da most private club, ya better be on da list...

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Oh Fluts... your passionate improvisations on the lyrics just don't work for lip-synching... :fluttersmith:

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:eenope: : Nope, of course it's not me!

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:allears: #6

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Image <-- :eenope: : I got pushed...

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Moon/airwalking... :-I

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The most shocking thing.

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Postby Discord (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:19 am

So that was a pretty great episode. The singing was awesome, Fluttershy in a barbershop quarter was adorable as I thought, and it had a really compelling ending. Plus the animation on stagefright, holy shit that was chilling.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to be in the anti-Pinkie camp for this episode though. Her lines regularly sucked me out of the action , and I didn't find her funny. And I usually give Pinkie characterization a pretty wide-leash, but I think this tipped a bit too much.

Pinkie Pie is a compassionate character; I think the point that she doesn't always understand people is a solid one, but this is one of her closest friends we're talking about. Pinkie Pie is not an idiot; she can tell when someone is not up for her antics, and can tone herself down for that. She comes off as uncharacteristically inconsiderate, and "Pinkie Pie is a big dumb jerk" is not a good joke to me, because I don't think that is who she is. Pinkie Pie can be a random oddball, but she hasn't really done it in such a jerkish way before. Where she has previously rubbed people in a bad way, I could believe in her sincere ignorance. But gong into Fluttershy's face and spouting a bunch of triggers for her stage fright while Fluttershy's face gradually worsens, is not something I could believe Pinkie would be ignorant of as wrong.

It's weird to see AKR go that route after such a nuanced characterization of her in "Pinkie Pride", but oh well. :pinkieshrug:

But the rest of the episode stands up really strong, and I enjoyed it a lot. I think I need to re-watch it having braced myself for Pinkie, but a really great effort for AKR all-around.
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Postby Rainbow Crash (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:28 am

Wayoshi wrote:Image

Candy Mane has a sisterhooves social cutie mark? Who could her sister be? :squintyjack:

Could it be Twist??
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Postby MasterOfKnees (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:30 am

The Flutterguy callback left me with the biggest grin the show has given me since the original joke back in Bridle Gossip. It was the joke that won me over for good, and I've wanted a callback to it ever since, even if just a subtle one. Seeing the episode actually revolve around it was too good.

Besides that, it was also a very good episode. The songs were nice and enjoyable, and Fluttershy's stage fright was adressed realistically. I mean, it's always easier to perform in front of your friends and family than to a big crowd of strangers, as a guitarist in a band I know that easily, and it does require babysteps to get there, so I'm glad that she wasn't won over on a whim. It was also a bit funny how surprised the other ponies were that she didn't feel ready, it's so natural in this universe that emotional problems are solved after one event, so of course that'd be quite a shock.

My only complaints would be that Pinkie was way too frantic, and towards the end the episode moved very fast, they could easily have cut one song segment in favor of getting a more natural ending. Also, I don't think showing lip-synching being met with a positive response is a good thing honestly, but I've never let things like that drag an episode down too much.

Either way, great episode for what I thought was a pretty weak premise.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:39 am

Friendship is Witchcraft got new "booty booty booty" material.

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:fancyhat: Came to fly you home form school, squirt. How was your day?

:scootawoo: Fluttershy mooned the class.

:gah: And Big Macintosh was checking her out.

:eyebrow: Was he now. Big Macintosh, aren't you and Ms. Cheerilee seeing each other?

:eenope: nope

:memories: Yes

:eeyup: eyup

:iamapony: We have absolutely no idea where our relationship stands.
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Postby MLPMan (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:41 am

MasterOfKnees wrote:Also, I don't think showing lip-synching being met with a positive response is a good thing honestly, but I've never let things like that drag an episode down too much.

Yeah, that was one of the things I found iffy this episode.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:42 am

I could buy into ponies just being all "wow, that mystery pony was awesome!" because friendship and all while glossing over the Ponytones half-faking it, but yeah, probably cartoon logic there.

Act III

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IT BEGINS.

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THE EYES OF HELL HAVE RETURNED IN A NEW FORM. EITHER BLINDING OR STARING, THEY TORTURE.

(there's a wavy distortion effect as well)

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THE EYES HAVE DONE THEIR JOB, PARALYZING THE MIND. :deflated: :gonkity: :fluttersmith:

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:gotcha:

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Image <-- Oh Giraffe Pie...
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:deflated: : But my nickname is Oblivious Pie!

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Dammit watermark! These are more great face pix.

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:twasnothin: : You'll understand at your own pace, I understand. :twasnothin:

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:skeptical: : You clearly have some issues I can't comprehend.

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It won't be that easy, Pinkie.

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:glare: : Don't understand why, Rarity? Why notttttt

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:allears: #7

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And now, this week's obligatory odd-looking transition frame:

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This time, with a legit error! Good thing it's only one frame.

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:memories: Yes, I suppose I like performing... some...

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Forget the Ponytones, Fluts is the main feature.

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:crack:

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Image <-- :notthisshitagain:
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Now Pinkie, you heard her, baby steps. :glare:

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I see the walrus is still lively...

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And Fluts keeps on singing. :allears:


Next week I'll be playing Donkey Kong most of the weekend, no FFT. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Pocket (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:47 am

Wayoshi wrote:Image

So, who's the pony on the right who looks like grown-up Apple Bloom?
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Postby Tears (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:49 am

I really like the Cheerilee faint now that The Doctor has pointed out that little half wink at the end. It turns a throwaway call-back gag into a sly "Oh Big Mac, my heeero" faux-swoon by Cheerilee as a shared joke between her and Big Mac about the Hearts and Hooves day... incident of two years ago.

Edit: Also, Venusy's read on Pinkie and her role in the episode is incredibly insightful and I keep forgetting to mention that in a post so now I am mentioning it. GREAT analysis :allears:
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Postby Factory Factory (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:51 am

As soon as Zecora brought up using the Poison Joke as a solution to the problem, I lost it. I was caught completely flat-footed not just by the callback, but just how effective a solution it was. It was just such an unexpectly pragmatic move.

Also wow, Pinkie was a jerk this episode. Well, it happens. Plus it served a purpose in giving external context for Fluts' internal thoughts.
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Postby InC (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:52 am

HOLY SHIT HORSIE DOO-WOP!! :awesomedash: :ponydrugs:

That't pretty much all the thoughts I can properly express on this episode right now. And it's amazing. :allears:

Preview edit: Well, actually.
MasterOfKnees wrote:My only complaints would be that Pinkie was way too frantic, and towards the end the episode moved very fast, they could easily have cut one song segment in favor of getting a more natural ending. Also, I don't think showing lip-synching being met with a positive response is a good thing honestly, but I've never let things like that drag an episode down too much.


The cheering may have been cut too short to make it obvious, but people in the crowd were actually cheering "Fluttershy" in a way that reminded me of the end of HF. Everyone in Ponyville must know about Fluttershy's obvious issues so I took it as the ponies, after an awkward silence from the initial shock, just being genuinely happy to see her express herself and collectively choosing to be supportive. :3:
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Postby BartonFink (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:18 am

That was excellent!

Just to respond to the 3 things I'm seeing pop up as complaints:
- The callback was so nicely weaved into the plotline - and Flutterguy was the type of gag that still had mileage in it - that I didn't mind it at all. I actually think a number of Pinkie's Party Cannon jokes (which has popped up more than once this season) fall into the category of just calling back for callbacks sake - but this was doing it right. And utilized so well with Big Mac to boot.
- Fluttershy is a shy character and yes, most of her episodes revolve around this fact. Retreading is therefore a bit inevitable. But I honestly thought the stage fright stuff took up a pretty small amount of screentime, and the resolution avoided a simple "she's over it!" response (I like when the show does some nuance).
- I thought Pinkie was hilarious. I really think she was just accurately assessing the situation and wasn't trying to be mean, just oblivious. The delivery and writing was really good throughout.


It's funny how the best pony's episodes, tend to also be, the best episodes. Fluttershy episodes 4 lyfe :dreamworks:
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:23 am

:flutterunsmith: Baby steps, everypony...baby steps.

:pcstare: Fluttershy, I liked your singing so much, I'd like you to perform at the Royal Get-Together next week.

:fluttersmith: But...I...

:speakest: That was a royal command! And it must be OBEYED!

:shock: Now wait a minute. You can't force my friend to do something she's nervous about.

:pcstare: Twilight...you're a princess. You have to agree with us.

:-/ Not if I quit being a princess.

:flutterdear: Oh my...are we doing a complete U-turn from Season 3?
:speakest: The fun has been doubled!
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:46 am

If this isn't someone's avatar by tomorrow night I might have to do something drastic... :squintyjack:

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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:48 am

BartonFink wrote:It's funny how the best pony's episodes, tend to also be, the best episodes. Fluttershy episodes 4 lyfe :dreamworks:

Have to emptyquote this. :hug: :hishovel:
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:02 am

Pinkie was rude but I kind of loved it -- my jaw kept dropping like "haha what the fuck pinkie" :-I

I think it worked because everyone kept calling her on it: "Pinkie's in some kind of weird mood but this is not OK." Everybody's been around that friend who decides to act like an asshole one night for no reason. Rarity swatting her with the newspaper was perfect. Heck, Rarity was in this position herself in Rarity Takes Manehattan and everybody reacted appropriately to how awful she was being.

Compare with Mysterious Mare Do-Well where everybody was acting like an asshole for no reason. There was no voice of reason within the Mean Girls clique which is why that episode feels so off in my opinion.

One person being jerky is normal, a group of people being jerky is a Group of Jerks.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:02 am

Wayoshi wrote:Image

She has a dog cutie mark, but a pony based off of I guess a hyper-moving bird? Doesn't sound too dog-friendly...

Flying ability doesn't necessarily match up with a pony's special talent. After all, Scootaloo definitely isn't going to get a cutie mark of a chicken. :rainbert:
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:19 am

Headless Horse wrote:It was very obviously based on some real person, possibly a show staffer.


Yeah, agreed. AKR didn't seem to know anything about it based on her tweets so it's probably somebody on the animation staff or one of their friends.

I just hate that stuff though. It's so jarring. It calls attention to the wrong thing at the wrong moment. The comics are pretty bad about this too.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:24 am

Wayoshi wrote:Image

Oh Fluts... your passionate improvisations on the lyrics just don't work for lip-synching... :fluttersmith:

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I wanted to note this too. The way this is shown is really neat—when Fluttershy gets carried away and starts kinda freestyling and ad-libbing, Big Mac's lip-syncing goes all out of whack, just as you'd expect. Now, the fact that we can tell this is happening is a rather remarkable thing. Time was that this sort of joke/plot point wouldn't even have been possible to convey properly in a TV cartoon, because mouth animation was always just so shoddy that you couldn't tell if it was off-sync on purpose or what. But in this case, seeing Big Mac's mouth start moving all off-kilter, it vividly reminds you that when he's lip-syncing well, the animation is good enough in this show to do it justice, and when it starts to go out of control, you notice immediately.

I remember the original Flutterguy song being used as a prime example of the show's detailed mouth animation, particularly as used in the "fuck shit stack" video—in which you can visually tell the difference between "girls" and "grillz", which is a really amazing thing for anything short of big-budget feature animation.

Really kinda neat how it's this episode in particular that calls attention to it again :memories:
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:38 am

Wayoshi wrote:Image

Mrs. Cake is looking particularly Thomas The Tank Engine-y here. Image

Pocket wrote:So, who's the pony on the right who looks like grown-up Apple Bloom?

Apple Bumpkin. (edit: named in the pilot episode) The crowd at the turkey call competition appeared to be pretty much the entire Apple family, Cranky and Matilda, and Pinkie (quasi-honorary Apple).
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Postby Corpy (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:44 am

Highbrow Dash wrote:If this isn't someone's avatar by tomorrow night I might have to do something drastic... :squintyjack:

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Already requested it... just waiting for ABits to do his magical moving picture thing...
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Postby Wylie (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:46 am

Am I the last person here to notice that Candy Mane has an actual piece of candy in the front curl her mane, or the first?
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:46 am

Wayoshi wrote:Image

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One thing I noticed in this scene is how quickly Twilight took to the sky. I know I've mentioned in the past that she's a naturally fast learner, but man, with hovering like that she thinks she's Rainbow Dash now or something. :-I
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Postby MochaBean (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:47 am

PictishBeast wrote:I just hate that stuff though. It's so jarring. It calls attention to the wrong thing at the wrong moment. The comics are pretty bad about this too.

As much as I enjoyed the episode, when Zipporwhill's dad showed up it momentarily took me out of it. It stops being, "Hey, here's a pony," and becomes more, "Hey, here's a human dressed up as a pony!" Either he was a reference to someone, or like you said he was just very overdesigned.

Other than that and Pinkie being an insensitive clod, this was a fun ep. :allears: Its not dethroning my top picks for this season, but was still very good and is continuing this season's winning streak.

Wylie wrote:Am I the last person here to notice that Candy Mane has an actual piece of candy in the front curl her mane, or the first?


Is that what that was? I thought it was some weird animation error or something.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:51 am

Wayoshi wrote:We have a straight-up lip synch semi-scandal, true to the episode title.


This was one of the biggest eye-opening things, on a meta level, about this episode. It's perhaps the first time the show has made any commentary on anything in the real world, let alone anything controversial or sensitive. Sure, it's been quite a while since the Milli Vanilli thing, and AKR said it wasn't even her idea to use that as the title—some enterprising staffer downstream from her came up with it. But whether planned that way or not, for the first time a joke title that references a real-world incident is used on an episode that shows a similar event in-universe. The title establishes that the show is making that allusion, and doing it deliberately.

It's a bit of a Rubicon for the show. It'd be like if "Ponyville Confidential" were a straight plot parody of "L.A. Confidential", or if "Keep Calm and Flutter On" were about life in a Changeling-occupied Equestria. :nngh: Or, of course, if "Castle Mane-ia" were about fighting Dracula with a whip.

I almost feel like it would have been better if they'd gone with a different title, even though this one is so on-the-nose—because it's so on-the-nose.
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