S04E14: Filli Vanilli

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Re: S04E14: Filli Vanilli

Postby doodlesplat (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:07 pm

I sort of see OF's point. It would've been less satisfying and involve no character growth, but if she had just stuck to singing from inside a barrel, technically the conflict was already 'resolved'. :yay:

Sometimes, being afraid can stop you from doing something that you love, but hiding in a barrel means you can hide from your fears and still shine and be the best pony you can possibly be.
:allears:

As a bonus, it's probably easier to make a show-accurate toy of a barrel rather than a pony.
:v:

edit: Someone's going to make a barrel custom with a voicebox that plays that song, I just know it...
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Postby Doctor Wheeze (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:17 pm

You know what I really liked about this episode, and what cements its place as my favorite episode (for the moment)? Fluttershy is happy for most of it. Usually in Fluttershy episodes she's scared out of her fucking mind the entire time, but in this one she's singing and dancing and hanging out with Rarity and Big Mac and having the time of her life and oh my gosh it's so cute :allears: And the look Rarity gives Fluttershy each time she says she wants to perform more may be the best possible thing :wink:

The actual conflict is delayed a bit, but when the other horseshoe drops it gives it that much more impact. She climbs high and falls hard. But in the end, she's ahead of where she started in a very realistic way :allears:
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..... :hatte:
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Postby Tears (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:33 pm

Opposing Farce wrote:I can't help feeling like there's something I'm missing here, because for most of the episode I just don't see this interior conflict people keep bringing up. Once Fluttershy gets into the groove of things, she's not really conflicted: she's enjoying herself performing in front of a crowd without the pressure of actually being in front of the crowd. She's having her cake and eating it too, and in a hypothetical alternate universe where Fluttershy could have just continued being Big Mac's backstage backup indefinitely


I probably won't have time to do your post justice right now and will respond to you and doodlesplat better later if it's not too late when I get in, but briefly.

I guess the thing was it was never going to be indefinite. It was a one-off that she found intoxicating enough to keep coming up with reasons to repeat it. And everyone was indulging her, but it's not like Big Mac was just going to stand there and mime forever, and Flutters wouldn't have dreamed of asking him too.

It was this snatched series of moments on the back of a ludicrous turn of events. A Capella group + turkey call injuries (the noisy killer) + deep voice flower = a short period where Fluttershy can do something she never thought she'd have the courage to do. But it was just a couple of days.

I see your point about the lack of drama, because if Big Mac had gotten his voice back and she'd gone back to normal with just some nice memories, it wouldn't have been that different. But by unmasking her (by her own hand, not some random mean guy), it takes away the bubble she's been protected in, and confronts her with her worst fear of performing. Worse even, because she's doing the running man in the air while singing bass.

But despite all this, i do agree with you really, Fluttershy's internal psychodrama aside, there is almost no drama in this episode. But for me what's there in place of drama is joy. Which sounds cheesy, but the impromptu barbershop Ponyville tour was amazing. The lack of drama is something I like about the episode but I'm not explaining myself quite right here and will try again when not phone-posting.

Edit: yeah, super brief :v:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:45 pm

Maybe Rarity had it right all along: isn't it nice when we can have an episode that doesn't have any draaaaahma? :vogue:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:48 pm

To be honest, I'd like to see a couple more dramaless episodes, it gives off a nice little vibe. Plus, it creates some good characterisation of ponies like Big Mac and does some interesting world building.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:58 pm

I'd be up for more drama-less episodes, if it means more like this. :vogue:
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Postby doodlesplat (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:05 pm

Rarity's early statement about draaaahmaa was dramatically ironic: this episode actually contained quite a lot of drama, some serious enough that even Rarity stayed away from it.
[the part when she snuck away from an approaching angry Applejack]
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Postby acksed (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:07 pm

ShieldedDiamond wrote:I'd be up for more drama-less episodes, if it means more like this. :vogue:

Thirded. The problems I had did dissipate upon rewatching and Happyshy was the best thing. :awesomedash:
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:30 pm

Come to think of it, really, what are the drama-less episodes? :ponder: I mean, I suppose you could say episodes like Sweet and Elite was drama-free, as there really wasn't anything "wrong" going on. But I'm trying to think of some others.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:33 pm

...I guess you could make the case for Pinkie Apple Pie being one. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby doodlesplat (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:25 pm

I'd say they mostly all had drama, though some episodes had smaller dramas that didn't involve too many ponies. Perhaps what is so alluring about this episode is that all the conflicts remained realistic and relatable. There were no life-threatening, magic-requiring crises. No big malicious entity on which to pin "that's the cause of all this mess". Everything here was something that we might encounter within regular life. Yeah, it snowballed a bit, but life does that too sometimes. So it all felt like 'just another regular Ponyville day' for the audience and essentially every other pony and 'a sorta special day' for Fluttershy.
:flutterunsmith:

Cutie Mark Chronicles was also pretty laid back and low in drama. It also had a Fluttershy solo and was very sweet. :allears:
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:18 pm

/\
It's one of the classic conflicts in literature. Mare vs. Nature. Mare vs. Mare. Mare vs. Herself. Mare vs. Cyborg Unicorns :sweetiebot:

Who are you, weird heavily accented Pegasus Dad?

On first appearance I thought he was pony Kevin Smith, but now I don't know.
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:18 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:...I guess you could make the case for Pinkie Apple Pie being one. :pinkieshrug:


I would agree, Pinkie Apple Pie was mostly drama-free. Maybe Read it and Weep as well?
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:22 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Huh...so I'm not the only one that thought of Futurama during that scene... Has any of the writers for Pony wrote for Futurama or Matt Groening before?

Naw. The only Pony writers who worked on adult cartoons is Dave Polsky on "South Park" and Merriwether Williams show-running "Free for All"
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:34 pm

Mr. Big wrote:Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way. I actually did think that Pinkie was jealous of Fluttershy in the ep, hence her behavior.


And Pinkie is -very- bad at times about showing her feelings directly.

We're talking about a pony who showed she was crying on the inside by watering the flowers while telling Twilight "Noooo, I'm absolutely fine!"

She's the Party Pony and that means even if she's being bitchy, she has to do it with a smile.

Then again, so does the Joker and look what HE ends up doing on a regular basis. Many comedians are not laughing all the time on the inside.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:01 pm

Some Jerky fanbrat was attacking AKR over this ep on Twittter, she even re-tweeted one of his tweets. Please go to cheer her up and show her some love! :party: :flutterunsmith:
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:39 pm

Done.
Some fans... :applejargh:
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:46 pm

I passed a kind word along to her. :twasnothin:
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:59 pm

As I have rewatched the episode (which stays solidly in the top three of this season, and ousts PYHD as my favorite Fluttershy episode), the friendship displayed between Fluttershy and Rarity stands out to me. It is a thing of beauty. Rarity respects Fluttershy’s choice (even if she is disappointed that Fluttershy will not share her voice with the world, for Rarity is all about bringing out the beautiful, be it from the dirty, dirty ground, from bolts of cloth, or from behind pink bangs), but is still right there to give Fluttershy that little nudge, she needs to take a crucial step. From there on, they nearly dance in a shared, but never stated (until the end), understanding of what Fluttershy desires. It is subtle and profound, and so enjoyable to watch.

Seeing a similar level of rapport develop between other members of the Mane Six would be wonderful.

I have not always enjoyed AKR’s episodes (MMMystery remains my least favorite episode), but she did an amazing job on this one. I don’t see Pinkie Pie’s behavior as especially unlike her. She is absolutely not being a jerk, for she has no intention of hurting her friend, but ms. “Oatmeal? Are you crazy?” has always had a weakness for free associations, and they run off with her in this episode, without even returning with cake.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:19 pm

Sent along a tweet.

Side note: I'm hoping Fluttershy encourages Sweetie Belle to get through her stage fright
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Postby Discord (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:57 pm

Ransom wrote:Sent along a tweet.

Side note: I'm hoping Fluttershy encourages Sweetie Belle to get through her stage fright


If the two ever did a duet, the world would spontaneously combust through sheer adorableness. :allears:
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:58 pm

This is the type of thing AKR really shouldn't tangle with too much. Hopefully it just stops shortly
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:00 am

Wayoshi wrote:This is the type of thing AKR really shouldn't tangle with too much. Hopefully it just stops shortly



Lots of fans sent encouraging tweets to balance out the hate. But yeah, this isn't something the writers should have to deal with, and they are much stronger people then I for putting up with such craziness!
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:02 am

I wonder just how bad it got. Like, I remember Katie Cook mentioning having gotten death threats for the way she wrote Rainbow Dash (in-character, though not 100% positive, much like Pinkie Pie was in this episode) back in MLP:FiM #1. Hopefully AKR didn't get any hate on that level.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:18 am

She had a fan call her an F'ing B, but that kid got chewed out by others.


Anywho now theres an #WeLoveYouAmy hashtag going around, glad to see there's still some good fans out there! :allears:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:36 am

On a less dramatic topic, remember how we were talking about this picture (and its colors) yesterday?


I thought of it again just a little while ago. I picked it up and rammed it through that one colorblindness simulator, and holy moly.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:53 am

Whatever filter you ran it through is definitely my filter since I can't tell the difference between those pics, not even a teeny tiny bit.

Unless you didn't run it through a filter... :skeptical:
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Postby londonarbuckle (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:57 am

PictishBeast wrote:Whatever filter you ran it through is definitely my filter since I can't tell the difference between those pics, not even a teeny tiny bit.

Unless you didn't run it through a filter... :skeptical:


My head hurts. :deflated:
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Postby Frosthawk (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 am

Wow, you're not getting anything near the whole Flutttershy experience, and that's heartbreaking. :fluttersmith:
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:15 am

Frosthawk wrote:Wow, you're not getting anything near the whole Flutttershy experience, and that's heartbreaking.


You should see my Pinkie! :amazing:
(or so I'm told)
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Postby Weird Autumn (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:20 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:Come to think of it, really, what are the drama-less episodes? :ponder: I mean, I suppose you could say episodes like Sweet and Elite was drama-free, as there really wasn't anything "wrong" going on. But I'm trying to think of some others.

I mean, I don't think you could call any episode 'free' of drama, not even this one; I mean, if they didn't have any drama they wouldn't have any story.

When I say that I feel like much of this episode is devoid of conflict, really I'm thinking of it in terms of basic narrative structure-- the most essential level of "Character X wants Thing Y but can't get it because of Obstacle Z." The overall conflict of this episode is "Fluttershy wants to sing but can't because of her stage fright," which is a fine story that carries through in the broad strokes of the plot beats, but ultimately I just felt like too much time was spent on scenes where Fluttershy is getting what she wants and the obstacle has been invalidated-- where what we're seeing is "Fluttershy wants to sing, does." Like I said, the song is catchy and it feels good to see Fluttershy enjoying herself so much, but the inciting event that leads into act 3 and the episode's emotional climax happens with all of five minutes on the clock and that just isn't enough time to do the story justice.
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Postby Jill (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:30 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Image
Fluttershy for mayor! :yay:
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:43 am

Opposing Farce wrote:I mean, I don't think you could call any episode 'free' of drama, not even this one; I mean, if they didn't have any drama they wouldn't have any story.


This episode is about as drama-less as real life. Rarely are the events in our own lives dramatized to the extent of televised drama, but there are real tensions in the every day. Right now, I'm posting on my favorite forum, but I'm worrying in the back of my mind about the classes I need to wake up for at 9am tomorrow. It's not a huge dramatic thing, but it's tension none-the-less, and it adds some measure of drama to my life, even if it's practically insignificant.

This episode is an exercise in that realistic tension, and how someone that responds poorly to that kind of thing coming to a head reacts. Fluttershy is the kind of person who is not good at avoiding the steady buildup of tensions, and she gets to let loose for this episode in a spectacularly adorable way. When the tension she knew was always near breaking point finally does break, she reacts poorly and needs support to realize how positive the overall experience was.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:54 am

^ I like this post a lot. RT material. :allears:
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Postby Wildfire (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:18 am

This time I didn't make this GIF/music mashup:
http://gifsound.com/?gif=derpicdn.net%2 ... w3RA&s=126
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:27 am

that sucks that people have to treat the writers that way :fluttersmith:

that sucks that people cant see true colors and miss out on how some of the ponies look like :fluttersmith:
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:54 am

Interesting that poison joke's effects aren't random, they're uniquely tailored to individual ponies and once you find out what they are, they're repeatable.

:v: "ohmygod I need to attach my wings upside down again like right now"
:dreamworks: "I've got it, Rainbow Dash! Follow me!"
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:56 am

Wildfire wrote:This time I didn't make this GIF/music mashup:
http://gifsound.com/?gif=derpicdn.net%2 ... w3RA&s=126
:dreamworks: You've been hit by, you've been struck by, a smooth pegasus.


:gotcha: lets make this a thing.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:10 am

PictishBeast wrote:Interesting that poison joke's effects aren't random, they're uniquely tailored to individual ponies and once you find out what they are, they're repeatable.

:v: "ohmygod I need to attach my wings upside down again like right now"
:dreamworks: "I've got it, Rainbow Dash! Follow me!"

Most of them are useless, but maybe Applejack being tiny will be useful someday. :ponder:
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Postby Ransom (?) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:31 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Most of them are useless, but maybe Applejack being tiny will be useful someday. :ponder:

Twilight: Not much I can think of.
Rarity: Hmm, maybe if she needs material for a sweater?
Pinkie: Only if they need to shut her up :gotcha:
Dash: Yeah nothing.

AJ and Fluts seem to be the most useful. Hope Twilight doesn't start to ponder what useful jokes the plant could play on other ponies.

:excite: As Princess I order everyone to take a poison joke test.
:twonk: For Science!
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