S05E07: Make New Friends But Keep Discord

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Re: S05E07: Make New Friends But Keep Discord

Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat May 16, 2015 9:54 pm

They had the same problem with Q on Star Trek. He was such a popular character they kept bringing him back. But they really didn't have very good ideas of what to do with him.

As a result, while Q is beloved, when broken down, most of his episodes were "meh" at best, and he really only had four good episodes (all in TNG). Now granted, those four episodes are usually all on top 10 lists for TNG, but he had four other TNG appearances, and four more on DS9 and Voyager. None were that good.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat May 16, 2015 9:58 pm

Thinking about it now, I think Discord was at his best in Princess Twilight Sparkle. In that episode, while he had been somewhat of an asshole (mainly because of his plants that he planted 1000 years ago), he was also helpful in a tricky and roundabout way. He got Twilight to go back into the Everfree Forest by causing her to doubt her friends, which would normally be a bad thing but was ultimately good in the end. We saw this side of Discord again in Twilight's Kingdom. When he dumped that diary on the Mane Six, initially it seemed like he was being intrusive and unhelpful, but ultimately that's what helped them figure shit out.

In episodes like this, he's really not helping our heroes much at all. His douchebaggery comes off as being pretty much entirely self-serving, and while it might be easier to tolerate that with a more sympathetic character, Discord's long rap sheet makes doing that a bit difficult. At least he is slowly starting to feel less mean and a bit more sympathetic nowadays, but still.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sat May 16, 2015 9:59 pm

:-/ I'd like to get my hooves on whoever thought it was a good idea to invite Discord.

:pcstare: Oh, Twilight...

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:speakest: The fun has been doubled!
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat May 16, 2015 10:03 pm

PonyHag714 wrote: :-/ I'd like to get my hooves on whoever thought it was a good idea to invite Discord.

:pcstare: Oh, Twilight...

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Oh yeah, I also really appreciated what this episode did with Twilight and Celestia. I'd pointed out in IRC that Twilight was the only one (of the two princesses present, at least) getting up in arms about the Smooze's presence there. Twilight's still got her neuroses and Celestia still has a soul. :3:
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Postby Octavia (?) » Sat May 16, 2015 10:05 pm

Celestia laughing at the zinger on Twilight was great too :gotcha:
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sat May 16, 2015 10:18 pm

Octavia wrote:Celestia laughing at the zinger on Twilight was great too :gotcha:


I liked Twilight's offended "HEY!"
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat May 16, 2015 10:22 pm

Octavia wrote:Celestia laughing at the zinger on Twilight was great too :gotcha:



It's tiny little character moments like that that were missing from Celestia's portrayals in S3 and S4.
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Postby Perrydotto (?) » Sat May 16, 2015 10:35 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:Thinking about it now, I think Discord was at his best in Princess Twilight Sparkle. In that episode, while he had been somewhat of an asshole (mainly because of his plants that he planted 1000 years ago), he was also helpful in a tricky and roundabout way. He got Twilight to go back into the Everfree Forest by causing her to doubt her friends, which would normally be a bad thing but was ultimately good in the end. We saw this side of Discord again in Twilight's Kingdom. When he dumped that diary on the Mane Six, initially it seemed like he was being intrusive and unhelpful, but ultimately that's what helped them figure shit out.

In episodes like this, he's really not helping our heroes much at all. His douchebaggery comes off as being pretty much entirely self-serving, and while it might be easier to tolerate that with a more sympathetic character, Discord's long rap sheet makes doing that a bit difficult. At least he is slowly starting to feel less mean and a bit more sympathetic nowadays, but still.


Thanks for summarizing it before I could. :v:
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat May 16, 2015 11:52 pm

Insane episode, but had a lot to like. The bulk of it was concerned with goofy Discord stuff, but with tons of great little character moments scattered throughout.

Also:

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Looking forward to rewatching, I feel like there's a lot of gags I missed the first time around.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 12:18 am

I loved this:

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Pinkie :lol:

Also that they straight-up copied this for Tree Hugger:

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Postby Durandal (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 12:19 am

Wayoshi wrote:One more frame I forgot earlier:

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Postby stonecutter (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 12:20 am

Bakertoons wrote:That's a reference to Rodney Dangerfield's shtick. He always did that.

The 'thin air' joke he said before that felt more like a Seinfeld joke to me, though.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 12:31 am

Perrydotto wrote:This was superfunny, and a real winner in my book mostly because Discord spends almost the whole episode being a butt and he's actually treated like it. All his attempts at making Fluttershy jealous or stealing the spotlight fail in increasingly more embarassing ways, and he doesn't get away with any of it. From start to finish, it's clear that he wants to be in control but isn't, and when he's getting all out violent Fluttershy gives him a run for his money and tells him off. That's exactly how I was hoping it would be handled, and that's how it went. Awesome. :allears: Discord is a jerk who's just slowly learning not to be one, and the episode was handling it that way.


The deeper-than-it-seems-at-first aspect to the way this is presented: Discord spends the whole episode thinking that he has been wronged. He thinks he's doing everything properly and getting gratuitously stabbed in the back—that he's agreed to play by a restrictive set of societal rules, and now he's getting the shaft because everyone is treacherous at heart, just like he always suspected. Only at the end does it occur to him (because Fluttershy spells it out in a way that actually clicks, and good on her for having an example ready to deploy) that there's another interpretation in play than "you're fine, it's everyone else who are jerks".

So the episode's leaving the audience with a rather vividly made point: people who are jerks or who have antisocial tendencies are quite often operating under a skewed set of perceptions, like maybe not necessarily their fault or of their own making, but underneath them all they're still good people who want to do "the right thing". They might have filters set up that tell them that the outside world is irrational and vindictive and you'd better screw everyone else before they screw you; but take away those filters and they want the same things we all do: companionship, trust, loyalty.

It's telling us that some people just need more work to be understood; and it also retroactively makes the point that Fluttershy wasn't wrong for seeing that Discord was still a worthwhile person underneath his fuck-everything exterior. She can really see the deep-down values that people have, where someone else might just write them off.
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 12:32 am

theGECK wrote:And Discord's chaos magic can take care of the Smooze when pony magic can't get through it at all, including pulling completely dissolved treasure out of the Smooze? Now we know of 4 types of magic in the world: pony, alicorn, chaos, & dark. How many others are there? Is Cutie Mark magic or Rainbow Power their own type of magic? I think I might like the world aspects of this episode more than the episode itself!


And apparently Fluttershy knew it was a separate brand of magic, when she was giving Discord a scolding.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 12:36 am

My favorite thing in the episode, by the way, was this shit:

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So that's what "Ommm"-ing in horse world looks like, is it. :v: That "eee-ee-eee-ee-ee-ee-eeee" whinnying thing had me doubled over, and they kept on doing it and it kept getting funnier
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 12:42 am

Headless Horse wrote:My favorite thing in the episode, by the way, was this shit:

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So that's what "Ommm"-ing in horse world looks like, is it. :v: That "eee-ee-eee-ee-ee-ee-eeee" whinnying thing had me doubled over, and they kept on doing it and it kept getting funnier


Someone needs to get Nicole to do this at the next convention. Because silly reasons.

Also, if they'd said "Nicole's character finally gets to save the day in this episode!" beforehand it'd have been epic trolling- I didn't realize it was her until the credits rolled (or that Ashleigh was the postal pony). We'd have all thought Celestia actually got to do something besides mess with her little ponies and get beaten up by the big baddies.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 12:45 am

Headless Horse wrote::words:

In a way, Discord was still paranoid about the whole "friendship is magic" - any perceived slight on Fluts' part and wham, the whole idea of friendship invalid, but he learned to really value Fluts in Twilight's Kingdom, so it hurts! Hopefully he's past this phase now with this episode resolved. :allears:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 12:48 am

theGECK wrote:Celestia's face really didn't seem to work right when it was displaying something other than stoic-ness though, did anybody else notice that, or is it just me? Maybe her model isn't up to what they're trying to do with it now? And is this the first time we've actually seen both of her eyes? I can't remember it happening in the show before.


That front 3/4 view of Celestia is something they've only started using since S3, and I'm not too sure how I feel about it either. It seems like her snout is too wide.

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I always thought of her face as being pointier and more delicate, like in this piece of Hasbro clip-art:

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Anyway, what really got me about the scene at the end (aside from how the writers clearly knew their audience—they knew "Run" was a big hit the last time we were all here) was that crazy accent she slipped into. :gotcha: "The naaht is yuuuung!"

Celestia's a great big goofball at heart, that I'll buy, but having her basically pulling a Pinkie kind of line seems just a liiiiiitle bit of a reach. :v:

Incidentally—if Nicole Oliver was on hand to do Tree Hugger's voice, it stands to reason that they'd give Celestia a nice big part. Makes me wonder if she's particularly hard to schedule.



E: Now that is a dress on Celestia. :allears: Look at that scarf and brooch, and the sun motifs and exterior cutie mark medallion aaaa
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 12:54 am

Headless Horse wrote:
That front 3/4 view of Celestia is something they've only started using since S3, and I'm not too sure how I feel about it either. It seems like her snout is too wide.

Image

I always thought of her face as being pointier and more delicate, like in this piece of Hasbro clip-art:

Image


Anyway, what really got me about the scene at the end (aside from how the writers clearly knew their audience—they knew "Run" was a big hit the last time we were all here) was that crazy accent she slipped into. :gotcha: "The naaht is yuuuung!"

Celestia's a great big goofball at heart, that I'll buy, but having her basically pulling a Pinkie kind of line seems just a liiiiiitle bit of a reach. :v:

Incidentally—if Nicole Oliver was on hand to do Tree Hugger's voice, it stands to reason that they'd give Celestia a nice big part. Makes me wonder if she's particularly hard to schedule.



I like the look, it makes her look more horse like, and given her size it works.

I can't imagine she's that hard to schedule. I know she does live action work, but that hasn't seemed to have affected her work on Littlest Pet Shop, and her role there is much bigger.

:gotcha: And incidentally, Celesia's more excited voice at the end, she slips into her LPS character.

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Postby Pingcode (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:15 am

A good episode, and a lot of fun - while admittedly a little rote, giving Discord an excuse to go off the hook is practically the animator/gag version of 'drive Rarity berserk and let Tabs go nuts with the role.'

With that said, it's a little disappointing they had to resort to a burner character for Tree Hugger's role. Entertaining, but disappointing for a crew that's put together so many other distinct secondaries out of one shots. She never really breaks free of the jealousy prop friend archetype, and what characterisation she does get is more or less in line with Fluts and correspondingly gets eclipsed by Fluts herself.

While I can't see any really solid alternate choices and so can't fault them for using a burner, it was disappointing. Remains to be seen if they recycle her into a more interesting secondary, but as is she's less of a friend as she is a less developed alternate copy of Fluttershy.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:19 am

Pingcode wrote:a less developed alternate copy of Fluttershy.

I dunno, she wasn't super developed but I don't think she was a copy of Fluts.
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Postby Octavia (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:23 am

Did Luna make an appearance at the Gala or was she not invited again? :unenthused:
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:25 am

She was working (Jim explained it off that way on Twitter as well)
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:26 am

Pingcode wrote:A good episode, and a lot of fun - while admittedly a little rote, giving Discord an excuse to go off the hook is practically the animator/gag version of 'drive Rarity berserk and let Tabs go nuts with the role.'

With that said, it's a little disappointing they had to resort to a burner character for Tree Hugger's role. Entertaining, but disappointing for a crew that's put together so many other distinct secondaries out of one shots. She never really breaks free of the jealousy prop friend archetype, and what characterisation she does get is more or less in line with Fluts and correspondingly gets eclipsed by Fluts herself.

While I can't see any really solid alternate choices and so can't fault them for using a burner, it was disappointing. Remains to be seen if they recycle her into a more interesting secondary, but as is she's less of a friend as she is a less developed alternate copy of Fluttershy.


I'd be kind of surprised if after pulling all this off they leave Tree Hugger completely on the back burner- plus, it gives another good VA a role that would actually allow her to do more than stand around and look regal and mysterious all the time. Cheerilee has her moments, but S5 hasn't struck me as one where we're going to see much of the schoolhouse. I mean, Fluttershy COULD use a friendly neigh-bor whose name isn't "The Spirit of Chaos", right?
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Postby Aurora (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:26 am

Likely taking care of the night or something
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Postby Pingcode (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:34 am

As a character she doesn't really have any non-trivial roles that Fluts wouldn't automatically eclipse her in, barring Fluts ceding ground to the newcomer. She wouldn't be out of place in an 'alternate universe alter ego' gag role, really - she hits all the major notes, with fairly minor reskinning.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:36 am

Headless Horse wrote:
That front 3/4 view of Celestia is something they've only started using since S3, and I'm not too sure how I feel about it either. It seems like her snout is too wide.

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The main thing that bothers me about that view of her face is that it's a bit hard to tell where each side of her face is. It's like it's almost flat. That's not necessarily bad, as I've seen one artist who usually drew his ponies like that and still made them look cute; for example:
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But it is a bit strange to see that in the base style of the show.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:40 am

theGECK wrote:Celestia's face really didn't seem to work right when it was displaying something other than stoic-ness though, did anybody else notice that, or is it just me? Maybe her model isn't up to what they're trying to do with it now?

I think now that she doesn't have to run the whole thing herself, Celestia started hitting the sauce about three hours before anyone showed up.

That said, this is a pretty weird shot:
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And is this the first time we've actually seen both of her eyes? I can't remember it happening in the show before.

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Marimo wrote:Did anyone else catch that one of the monsters took off with the mail pony in its clutches?

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:wat:

WandereringPony wrote:I'd be kind of surprised if after pulling all this off they leave Tree Hugger completely on the back burner- plus, it gives another good VA a role that would actually allow her to do more than stand around and look regal and mysterious all the time. Cheerilee has her moments, but S5 hasn't struck me as one where we're going to see much of the schoolhouse. I mean, Fluttershy COULD use a friendly neigh-bor whose name isn't "The Spirit of Chaos", right?

Ehhh, I see your point, but Tree Hugger (literally, a hippie called Tree Hugger) seems a little too one-note to be entertaining for more than an episode. I mean, imagine if she came back and saved the day with her chakras and positive vibes and waterfall auras in, say, three episodes.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:47 am

I love Discord's neighborhood.
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"My vibe?!"

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I like the two ponies in back! Also some sort of OC front and center.

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I appreciate that Smooze glows when it eats something and grows.

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:lol:

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Those are... some huge crowns. Or maybe gravitational lensing? Also I guess Celestia was guarding the other partygoers.

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Horsie hairdos! :awesomedash:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:48 am

SlateSlabrock wrote:
That said, this is a pretty weird shot:
Image



:dwi: Remember Twilight, I can crush a ponies skull with these wings.

Also, All the dresses were awesome. Glad they didn't reuse that ugly coronation dress for Celestia.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:48 am

Pingcode wrote:As a character she doesn't really have any non-trivial roles that Fluts wouldn't automatically eclipse her in, barring Fluts ceding ground to the newcomer. She wouldn't be out of place in an 'alternate universe alter ego' gag role, really - she hits all the major notes, with fairly minor reskinning.


Next time on My Little Pony, Tree Hugger guest stars in a very special "Just Say No to Drugs" episode.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:56 am

Image

This wrecked me for some reason. :lol: It's just so whaaaaaaaaat

:excellent: "It's an it with a heart of ... blob"

:ponydrugs:
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Postby acksed (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:57 am

This was nucking futs; I thought I was watching an episode of Spongebob, there were so many gags. Way too many references, but for Maud's burn, I will forgive a lot.

:geno: You're the most basic of jokes.
:rainbert: "Rarity, you look ridiculous."
:vogue: "I'm going to ignore that comment out of a desire to help you."
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 1:58 am

Also this thing where the CMCs are drumming their hooves on the stage in excitement:

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Postby The Ghost Of Ember (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 2:05 am

The Smooze just wanted to have a good time with Discord at the party, but Discord just kept rejecting it, and whenever the Smooze gets upset it eats. It's a coping mechanism! :allears:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 2:08 am

Theory:


Image


We've now seen the CMC's cutie marks.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 2:11 am

:gotcha: Twilight, the night is young! Woo-hoo!

:speakest: Sister, your behavior is most unseemly.

:pcstare: You're most unseemly.

:maud: Oh...snap.
:speakest: The fun has been doubled!
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 2:12 am

The Doctor wrote:Theory:


Image


We've now seen the CMC's cutie marks.
I don't think so. Why would Sweetie Belle's cutie mark be a poison joke flower?
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 2:13 am

So I guess I'll be the one to say it...

If we're looking for something "groundbreaking" in this episode, how about what it did—quite matter-of-factly—with gender roles?

It's pointed out to us front-and-center that the ponies with the invitations are taking their "plus ones" as dates. Maybe it's a turn of phrase, maybe whatever—but the end result is that every couple we see at the Gala, or at least every one we spend any time with, is a same-sex pair. Sure, every one we see also has a reason we should treat it as something other than a date date (the CMCs are going with their big sisters as kind of a sympathetic joke, like the way you'd take your mom to the prom, and Fluttershy and Tree Hugger are obviously just buddies); but the pervasiveness of the way the couples are presented leaves you feeling that something important has been established about this world.

Whether it's saying that the Gala isn't the kind of event you'd take a romantic date to, or that romance is a completely tangential concept to the way you'd approach taking a "plus one" to a fancy dress party, or that dating in Equestria isn't even visibly a heteronormative thing, it's quite a departure from how this sort of idea would ever have been handled in a previous era.

Discord could have brought, say, Chrysalis or Catrina or someone... but no, he stuck a top hat on the Smooze. :smirk:
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Postby Octavia (?) » Sun May 17, 2015 2:14 am

Scootaloo having a creature that flies as a cutie mark would be a cruel joke. :nngh:
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