S05E01-02: The Cutie Map

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Re: S05E01-02: The Cutie Map

Postby die Fledermaus (?) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:54 pm

CrystalBrony wrote:Ok, mods, I looked for a suitable place to post this... please move it to a better thread if you feel it is too off-topic.

I LOVE DANIEL INGRAM and for me, he nailed it again in this episode. One of the main takeaways for me from "Our Town" was the nod to WWII era propaganda music. The melody seemed to seamlessly drift from a major to minor keys and then back again, making the entire song feel sort of dark and forebodingly creepy. I would almost guess that certain parts of the song (or the whole thing) were in a different mode (i.e. mixolydian or something of the sort for anyone else out there who is musically inclined. If anybody can confirm this and wants to PM me I would love to discuss this further) Honestly, it's not really a song I would probably listen to all day every day to rock out to in my car like "Babs Seed" but for some reason in this episode it just... works. I think that, lyrics aside, even musically it really set the tone for what was to come. Just my two cents.



If I remember right the main thing that made it kinda discordant was that it was a big peppy march done in a minor key. I need to re listen though.
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Postby Wylie (?) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:02 pm

It wasn't entirely in a minor key, but it did slip minor chords into the progression occasionally, which can sometimes be even more unsettling- probably exactly what Ingram was going for. Paging Octavia to this thread for further analysis. :shocktavia:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:52 pm

It's the way the chord progression in the main verses goes. The second beat in each phrase goes off into a weird direction that I'm sure Octavia can explain, but then by the third beat it's back into a standard straightforward march in its main major key.

It's really clever and I think Ingram really staked out some new territory for himself with this episode.
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Postby die Fledermaus (?) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:59 pm

Wylie wrote:It wasn't entirely in a minor key, but it did slip minor chords into the progression occasionally, which can sometimes be even more unsettling- probably exactly what Ingram was going for. Paging Octavia to this thread for further analysis. :shocktavia:


Yea this is it, my bad, it wasn't totally minor key it just had these little slips of it to make everything suddenly become very sinister under the up beat happy shit.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:25 pm

Lyrics of the song were really solid too. I can't stop myself from picking apart lyrics written for musicals and often pony lyrics commit various sins that drive me up the wall like stressing the wrong syllable (pin-KEE) or awkward phrasings in service of a rhyme that sometimes don't even rhyme ("I gave them nothing but a hard time"). This one is solid all the way through, structurally, and conveys information in clever ways with some of the phrasing (nightmare/dream) being A+ stuff.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:41 pm

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but why would you post such a thing??
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:43 pm

Basically, there was just enough disharmony in the song to make you subconsciously go "Um, there's a distinct feeling of wrong about this traditionally styled pony musical number"...which is the entire idea, IMHO.
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Postby Aramek (?) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:51 pm


Every single face is perfect.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:53 pm



"You know, I learned something today..."
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Postby die Fledermaus (?) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:54 pm



Let's be fair, we're all sick of her friendship speeches by now. Starlight is a hero
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:54 pm



Amazing. Look at that classic SmugTwi pose right before, compared to her shellshocked reaction.
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Postby CrystalBrony (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:26 am

I came up with a way to describe the song in this episode. Just like the ponies inthis town, the melody of the song almost seemed like it was an inherently sad song trying desperately to sound happy.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:28 am

The Doctor wrote:
I'd say Larson has a great grasp on Fluttershy. Other play her meek manner for laughs. So does Larson, but with the payoff that she's overcoming a lot to come through for her friends.

A story featuring her does not need to make fun of her nature so that she can do something heroic. Aside from this episode, Stare Master and Filli Vanilli (the first couple of examples off the top of my head) also did this well.
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Postby UnintelGen (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:30 am



:shock: "Wow. Not used to this. I'm used to everypony listening and doing exactly what I say. How dare you."
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:34 am

UnintelGen wrote:
:shock: "Wow. Not used to this. I'm used to everypony listening and doing exactly what I say. How dare you."

The irony is that Starlight Glimmer surely felt exactly the same way.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:57 am

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That rageface. Reminicent of Twi in FPK.
:speakest: The fun has been doubled!
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Postby Jill (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:12 am

Even a long hiatus can't stop me from being fashionably late. :-I

  • Already laughing at Fluttershy agreeing with everyone, and probably Spike. :allears:
  • You mean to tell me this is the first time they've all sat together on their spankin' new thrones?
  • I like it too Spike. Whatever it is.
  • Pinkie's family is murdered right before her eyes.
  • "Our butts are glowing!"
  • Hoofball is of course a guy thing, or at least not a Fluttershy thing.
  • Quaint little villages, on the other hand...
  • Welcome. :whatsup:
  • A village for talentless hacks? Sign me up!
  • Neat song! Fluttershy is really into this place, Pinkie really isn't.
  • Jeez Applejack, way to be Rainbow Dash. :aghast: :glare: :v:
  • Pinkie eat the muffins. :amazing:
  • Sheesh. FiM villains can sure get their mitts on some overpowered abilities.
  • This has gone from weird to freaky. :starity:
  • "Even tweets don't make sense anymore!" Thanks Fluts, I do my part.
  • "I can't even make countryisms no more." :hilarious:
  • This has become way more of a Fluts episode than I expected. :yay: Suppose the opening joke was kinda foreshadowing it.
  • Magical barriers can just be shattered like glass, apparently.
  • If the cutie marks fly back to their original butt, how did Double Diamond get them into jars? :twonk:
  • "It was their unique gifts and passions and person--" *ZAP* ded
  • "This feels like an ending!"

Actually, Pinkie, it feels like just the beginning. :flutterunsmith:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:38 am

Was there ever any explanation as to why this episode got a last-minute title change? I'm still not sure why, especially given that the map figured little into the story.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:14 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Was there ever any explanation as to why this episode got a last-minute title change? I'm still not sure why, especially given that the map figured little into the story.


I wonder if maybe they freaked out at people making Markless = Marxism references.
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Postby Wildfire (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:23 am

Oh god dammit: :guffaw:




We do have at least one cute look from Starlight now:

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Postby AlliterativeAxolotl (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:26 am

The villain sort of gave me a vibe similar to Gideon from Gravity Falls: A control freak who's suave and charming and knows how to make people dance to their tune, but once things spiral out of control or are not to their liking they go crazy and lash out in a fury that surprises everyone, including the viewer

Also they legitimately seem not to understand why what they do is wrong

In short a really rad villain and I hope we see more from her :-I
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:33 am

Wildfire wrote:Oh god dammit: :guffaw:

This is really damn fantastic.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:53 am

AlliterativeAxolotl wrote:The villain sort of gave me a vibe similar to Gideon from Gravity Falls: A control freak who's suave and charming and knows how to make people dance to their tune, but once things spiral out of control or are not to their liking they go crazy and lash out in a fury that surprises everyone, including the viewer

Also they legitimately seem not to understand why what they do is wrong

In short a really rad villain and I hope we see more from her :-I

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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:12 am

SlateSlabrock wrote:VKH'V VWLOO LQ WKH FDYHV

I actually decoded this :-I

("She's still in the caves")
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Postby Mordja (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:06 am

I am thrilled to see HH hasn't changed one bit.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:36 am

Wildfire wrote:Oh god dammit: :guffaw:


Welp, this is probably going to be the best piece of fanwork from this episode. :v:
:plonk: Image :)
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Postby Gnot Syndrome (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:11 am

I really like the premise they've set up here, and I'm really interested to see what they do with it. I was constantly pausing the video and looking at that map. Would it be safe to say that each unique landmark on there is a place we're eventually going to see?

Like, I hope they acknowledge things like this gargantuan skull:
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(It's still so weird to see that kind of thing in the little girls' show, My Little Pony.)

I like the look of this castle, too. I'm getting a Dol Guldur vibe from it:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:35 am

Oh wow, I never even noticed that skull.

Say...doesn't it look a little...draconequuis like? :starity:
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:50 am

Cutie Markless ( :-/ ) is up on iTunes, and the first part might be free?

Also, it's in a "volume 8," but there's no season pass option. So... business as usual for iTunes releases, I guess.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:59 am

Closer view of the map, if anyone's interested. Not every known location appears (I guess the map just shows whatever it thinks is relevant?), but I've got the ones I can identify pencilled in.

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In terms of the big four (Ponyville, Canterlot, Cloudsdale and the Crystal Empire) it fits pretty well with the other map we have.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:17 am

That jungle area looks pretty interesting...could it be the catalyst to another Daring Do episode? :ponder:
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:38 am

Woah, I hadn't actually paid attention to the map. I thought it only had Equestria and not everything around it :starity:
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but why would you post such a thing??
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:46 am

ROBOT B9 wrote:That jungle area looks pretty interesting...could it be the catalyst to another Daring Do episode? :ponder:


Could be! There's also a really detailed... tree, I guess(?) slightly up and to the right of Starlight's village. It seems way more detailed than any of the other landmarks around it, so it might be relevant later on.

Highbrow Dash wrote:Woah, I hadn't actually paid attention to the map. I thought it only had Equestria and not everything around it :starity:


Weeeell, I'm not sure it really makes a lot of sense spatially. The other map we have shows a lot of known places, i.e. Manehattan, Fillydelphia, Los Pegasus etc, and the locations don't really jive with the map table.

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Incidentally, I just noticed that this map kinda makes sense of a really weird conversation we were having about the railway and how it relates to the Crystal Empire over in the Sombra comic thread. This is such a weird fandom sometimes.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:27 pm

Also note that that copy of the map cuts off the right side of the map. Specifically, "Yonder to Griffons", "Dragons Be Here," and "Horseshoe Bay." And also "San" in the lower left.

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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:34 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:Also note that that copy of the map cuts off the right side of the map. Specifically, "Yonder to Griffons", "Dragons Be Here," and "Horseshoe Bay." And also "San" in the lower left.

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Yup. Other than those, the only difference is the addition of the Crystal Empire top-right. Not sure why they ditched those bits you mentioned.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:41 pm

Don't forget that the map that SlateSlabrock posted was first made right at the end of S2, just before the Crystal Empire returned. Later versions of the map have the Crystal Empire in its place up north.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:45 pm

Those are other continents. The Equestria we see in that screenshot is tilted at an angle - if you follow the east coast, you can see Horseshoe Bay, and if you mentally 'shift' Equestria clockwise, the features line up with the old map. So this new one has the WHOLE WORLD or at least a lot more of it :awesomedash:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:56 pm

Something I noticed about the town: no youngsters.

The ponies in the town are presented as all having given up their cutie marks voluntarily, within fairly recent memory, and that's a conscious creative choice that's specifically pointed out in dialogue. I imagine the writers figured it would be just a little too dark to depict a place where either a) kids are born into that kind of system, or b) kids were brought in and had to be brainwashed too.



Also I suppose I should point out that the system being presented is a lot closer to that Vonnegut story than an Orwellian take on communism. Harrison Bergeron was specifically about "leveling", i.e. the removal of people's unique talents by a Handicapper General; it wasn't about economics, and neither is Starlight's vision. The Marxist-Leninist thing is "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs", i.e. it doesn't force people's gifts to be taken away, just to be repurposed for others' benefit. The dystopian endgame might be the same, but the intent is different.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:00 pm

Dexanth wrote:Those are other continents. The Equestria we see in that screenshot is tilted at an angle - if you follow the east coast, you can see Horseshoe Bay, and if you mentally 'shift' Equestria clockwise, the features line up with the old map. So this new one has the WHOLE WORLD or at least a lot more of it :awesomedash:


Oh hey, that is Horseshoe Bay! Nice catch!

If we assume that the landmass with the cactus-filled area is still part of Equestria (I guess that cactus-ey bit is near Appleoosa?), then everything above Horseshoe Bay is new, as is the landmass below Los Pegasus.

Neat!

Headless Horse wrote:Something I noticed about the town: no youngsters.

The ponies in the town are presented as all having given up their cutie marks voluntarily, within fairly recent memory, and that's a conscious creative choice that's specifically pointed out in dialogue. I imagine the writers figured it would be just a little too dark to depict a place where either a) kids are born into that kind of system, or b) kids were brought in and had to be brainwashed too.


Sorry to do this to you Headless:

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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:03 pm

Headless Horse wrote:Something I noticed about the town: no youngsters.

The ponies in the town are presented as all having given up their cutie marks voluntarily, within fairly recent memory, and that's a conscious creative choice that's specifically pointed out in dialogue. I imagine the writers figured it would be just a little too dark to depict a place where either a) kids are born into that kind of system, or b) kids were brought in and had to be brainwashed too.

I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure there were some children in a few shots. They were all blank flanks, of course. I'll go back to the episode and check for that now.
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