S06E01-02: The Crystalling

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Re: S06E01-02: The Crystalling

Postby The Ghost Of Ember (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:27 am

Rainbow Crash wrote:You know, I marathoned the whole series over the past few weeks and there's one thing I'm pretty tired of seeing. The "search the library" scene. It happened in this episode too. They play out exactly the same every time: montage of ransacking the bookshelves, someone saying "we'll never find it!", and then someone finds it. It's getting really old


You'd think they'd know to check under E by now
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:53 am

Rainbow Crash wrote:You know, I marathoned the whole series over the past few weeks and there's one thing I'm pretty tired of seeing. The "search the library" scene. It happened in this episode too. They play out exactly the same every time: montage of ransacking the bookshelves, someone saying "we'll never find it!", and then someone finds it. It's getting really old


This time there was a twist cause the book got destroyed so they had to borrow it from a neighbour instead :wowzers:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:10 am

Rainbow Crash wrote:You know, I marathoned the whole series over the past few weeks and there's one thing I'm pretty tired of seeing. The "search the library" scene. It happened in this episode too. They play out exactly the same every time: montage of ransacking the bookshelves, someone saying "we'll never find it!", and then someone finds it. It's getting really old

Obviously it's a commentary on how Twilight Sparkle should've been the princess of books instead of the princess of friendship. Then she could've instituted a proper book organizing system for all the libraries in Equestria! :twonk:
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Postby Homeswirl (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:46 am

Random thoughts that hopefully haven't been beaten to death in the thread already:

  • I love the abrupt escalation of the baby acting up to instantly destroying the reactor core
  • Starlight is really Sunset Shimmer Lite Version, though still generally likable here. Still not as cool as Sunset, though.
  • Nice seeing twilight bringing her geekiness to a new role as Obtuse Sensei of Friendship
  • Celestia and Luna have been firmly downgraded as normal ponies who achieved alicorn status, as opposed to being demi-deities for their existence
  • Starlight and Sunburst's relationship and communication were really well written. Also, GAAAH too many celestial illumination names!
  • I chuckled at the "walking in on Spike in the bathroom" gags
  • I like that for a girls' show, Shining Armor isn't trampled on as a scapegoat character, just existing to highlight how girls are Just As Good Or Better.
  • First cartoon ever to show a realistic depiction of new parenthood, though it severely understated the true destructive power of babies
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:50 am

Homeswirl wrote:Random thoughts that hopefully haven't been beaten to death in the thread already:

  • I love the abrupt escalation of the baby acting up to instantly destroying the reactor core
  • Starlight is really Sunset Shimmer Lite Version, though still generally likable here. Still not as cool as Sunset, though.
  • Nice seeing twilight bringing her geekiness to a new role as Obtuse Sensei of Friendship
  • Celestia and Luna have been firmly downgraded as normal ponies who achieved alicorn status, as opposed to being demi-deities for their existence
  • Starlight and Sunburst's relationship and communication were really well written. Also, GAAAH too many celestial illumination names!
  • I chuckled at the "walking in on Spike in the bathroom" gags
  • I like that for a girls' show, Shining Armor isn't trampled on as a scapegoat character, just existing to highlight how girls are Just As Good Or Better.
  • First cartoon ever to show a realistic depiction of new parenthood, though it severely understated the true destructive power of babies


Celestia said "first Alicorn born in Equestria". That doesn't contradict the journal origin that they came from Valicorn-nor and were born before Equestria was founded.
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:51 am

Homeswirl wrote:Random thoughts that hopefully haven't been beaten to death in the thread already:

  • I love the abrupt escalation of the baby acting up to instantly destroying the reactor core
  • Starlight is really Sunset Shimmer Lite Version, though still generally likable here. Still not as cool as Sunset, though.
  • Nice seeing twilight bringing her geekiness to a new role as Obtuse Sensei of Friendship
  • Celestia and Luna have been firmly downgraded as normal ponies who achieved alicorn status, as opposed to being demi-deities for their existence
  • Starlight and Sunburst's relationship and communication were really well written. Also, GAAAH too many celestial illumination names!
  • I chuckled at the "walking in on Spike in the bathroom" gags
  • I like that for a girls' show, Shining Armor isn't trampled on as a scapegoat character, just existing to highlight how girls are Just As Good Or Better.
  • First cartoon ever to show a realistic depiction of new parenthood, though it severely understated the true destructive power of babies


'Nearly caused the annihilation of an ancient civilization' is not destructive enough? :starity:
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:09 am

The Doctor wrote:Celestia said "first Alicorn born in Equestria". That doesn't contradict the journal origin that they came from Valicorn-nor and were born before Equestria was founded.

Awesome ability to find the craziest of loopholes.

Dexanth wrote:'Nearly caused the annihilation of an ancient civilization' is not destructive enough? :starity:

Clearly you never had to deal with a newborn baby before.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:42 am

Soft Snow wrote:Awesome ability to find the craziest of loopholes.



I don't think it's a loophole. Amy Keating Rogers wrote that book, likely with input from others on the staff. I think Haber chose the wording in that scene very carefully. The book is tagged as "The Official chronicles of Princesses Celestia and Luna"
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Postby Bremen (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:18 am

Yep. The first time I heard that scene my immediate thought was "I notice they're not saying Celestia and Luna weren't born somewhere other than Equestria." It was a pretty specific disclaimer.

Though honestly I'd be as happy with the reveal of Celestia and Luna ascending in some epic manner as I would with them basically being Gandalf-alikes.
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:53 am

Homeswirl wrote:Nice seeing twilight bringing her geekiness to a new role as Obtuse Sensei of Friendship

I love that they have found ways to allow Twilight to be a Pretty Pretty Princess but still be herself and have things to learn. Even as a teacher, she's still learning.

It seems to me that Twilight has felt more like "herself" in S5/S6 than she did as a newly minted princess in S4. Maybe the writers have gotten more comfortable with writing her.
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Postby !saak (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:37 am

I dug it and surprisingly the new characters are the most fun to watch and best used these episodes.

One rough patch is Twilight's list, you'd think that after 5 seasons of Friendship Lessons she'd know better than that. I mean, the whole point of her being sent to Ponyville several years ago was because she did nothing but bookreading and needed to get out and see what the world/people were really like. Isn't it kind of her arc that she learned to go beyond just BOOKS. I mean, BOOKS are like really important yeah but when that part of her character is written as really frank it's kind of... eeehhh? As a joke it works sure, but playing it really straight like this undermines a few seasons worth of characterization.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:55 am

I don't think she ever really got brought up short on the list-making thing. About the closest it came was that one-off gag in MMC about "Isn't there a book I should be reading about this?" And that was just a throwaway.

As far as Twilight is concerned, her making those lists is what got her where she is today. :-P
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:50 am

Arguably the first Crystal Empire episode, where she spends the pre-opening freaking out about flash cards, and then her "test" is a measure of her character.

It's sort of a tricky balance. Twilight's supposed to have grown over the years, and I see that as her gradual metamorphosis into a Celestia-like leader. But obviously she's not great at it yet, and the more we see of Celestia, the harder it is to picture her as the infallible chessmaster. She's just more experienced and better at hiding her uncertainty.

I'd say, if we're rewriting the episode after the fact, to just get rid of the "emphasize the importance of the meeting" bit. It's just there to eat up 30 seconds, and while the pacing in this story was fine, they could've done something else.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:38 pm

!saak wrote:One rough patch is Twilight's list, you'd think that after 5 seasons of Friendship Lessons she'd know better than that. I mean, the whole point of her being sent to Ponyville several years ago was because she did nothing but bookreading and needed to get out and see what the world/people were really like. Isn't it kind of her arc that she learned to go beyond just BOOKS. I mean, BOOKS are like really important yeah but when that part of her character is written as really frank it's kind of... eeehhh? As a joke it works sure, but playing it really straight like this undermines a few seasons worth of characterization.

As I see it, being organized and diligent like this is not the same as being a shut-in. I figure Twilight can still rely heavily on checklists without being antisocial or anything.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:45 pm

It does come off as kind of naive of Twilight coming so soon after "Hoofields and the McColts" where pretty much the same thing happened.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:53 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:As I see it, being organized and diligent like this is not the same as being a shut-in. I figure Twilight can still rely heavily on checklists without being antisocial or anything.


That's more or less my feeling too. I don't think we'll ever see a Twilight who doesn't use lists, and I'm not sure we should.

SlateSlabrock wrote:Arguably the first Crystal Empire episode, where she spends the pre-opening freaking out about flash cards, and then her "test" is a measure of her character.

It's sort of a tricky balance. Twilight's supposed to have grown over the years, and I see that as her gradual metamorphosis into a Celestia-like leader. But obviously she's not great at it yet, and the more we see of Celestia, the harder it is to picture her as the infallible chessmaster. She's just more experienced and better at hiding her uncertainty.


There's a great little moment in the Reflections comic where it's revealed that Celestia sees Twilight as being like Star Swirl, while Luna sees her as being more like Celestia. I think the truth is that Twilight is both; she has the skill and potential for leadership that Celestia has, but she's also the obsessive academic and perpetual dork that Star Swirl is.

I think perhaps if Celestia really is the puller of strings she seems to be, it's only because she's been in this game for so long. She's watched generations come and go just since losing Luna for the first time; seeing things on a larger scale must be like second nature to her now.

The Doctor wrote:It does come off as kind of naive of Twilight coming so soon after "Hoofields and the McColts" where pretty much the same thing happened.


I'm not sure her having a list for Starlight really represented any kind of a failure; had she been there rather than Spike she'd have been in a position to see whether or not it was of any use, just as Spike did.
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Postby !saak (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:51 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:As I see it, being organized and diligent like this is not the same as being a shut-in. I figure Twilight can still rely heavily on checklists without being antisocial or anything.

Oh yeah definitely, that's not what I'm trying to say. Twilight without lists or books; her whole approach to problemsolving, isn't Twilight.

But it still feels like "haven't we been here already?". And all the characters go along with it as if it's the only right option even tho they've called her out on her overzealous-ness on several occasions and I'm like "really?".
I would've expected a bit more pushback instead of it being accepted at face value.

I understand having to maintain a status quo but I have the feeling the rest of the show has evolved beyond it?

It's like a minor thing but still.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:58 pm

Oh, you were concerned about her enthusiasm for this? That doesn't really seem like a problem to me. Sure, other folks have called Twilight on it, but it's never really been in a way that feels forceful. Like, it's more them having a sarcastic laugh (see Rainbow Dash mimicking her in The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone, for instance) than actually thinking it's a major problem of hers.

The end of S2, all of S3, through to about half of S4 was a time when I think she stopped doing that sort of thing, when she stopped being Twilight the nerd and was mostly only just Twilight the hero. I personally think that was a boring time for her.
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Postby Sidotsy (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:01 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:Oh, you were concerned about her enthusiasm for this? That doesn't really seem like a problem to me. Sure, other folks have called Twilight on it, but it's never really been in a way that feels forceful. Like, it's more them having a sarcastic laugh (see Rainbow Dash mimicking her in The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone, for instance) than actually thinking it's a major problem of hers.

The end of S2, all of S3, through to about half of S4 was a time when I think she stopped doing that sort of thing, when she stopped being Twilight the nerd and was mostly only just Twilight the hero. I personally think that was a boring time for her.

Yeah, I enjoy it when she's a Princess who also happens to still be a slightly neurotic book worm dork. It's endearing.
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Postby Captain Rufus (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:51 pm

TSparks should always be an adorkable Turbonerd. It's what makes her her!
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:24 pm

The Mane Six are often at their most stereotypical during the season openers. Partly because those episodes tilt in favor of plot more than character, partly because all six are present and there's only time for glimpses of each one, and partly because they want to establish the personalities in broad strokes for the benefit of new viewers. "For those just joining us, Twilight is big into checklists." And likewise Pinkie is a hyperactive ball of weirdness and Rarity is fussy. These tend to be the episodes where we see the Mane Six as their most "generic" selves, and when we do get moments of extra depth, then it's gravy. After 5 years I'm kind of used to it, and wait for mid-season for the tastiest character moments.
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Postby !saak (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:25 pm

Nononono, like Twilight booknerd yes!!

Gosh now it seems like I'm *really* getting hung up on this issue but it's so minor :V:

But it's like, she has this list that's comically long and that's supposed to teach Starlight about Friendship and they go along with it just like that I guess Twi's the Princess of Friendship which puts some weight behind it but from the get-go it already seems like not the best way of going on about it?

That's me projecting there prolly, but didn't Starlight achieve timetravel and start up her own mini-dictatorship? Shouldn't she be like "I dunno about this"?

Meanwhile Spike is no stranger to her shenanigans either.

But I mean, had Twi given well-intentioned but sort-of-off-the-mark advice and maybe some pointers it would've been a lot less... inelegant. And would actually make her dialogue in the train about having to learn about teaching that much more effective.

But now it's like "oh Twi you dork with your lists! Oh... this is actual the driver of a major plotpoint. The thing that's usually played for laughs is taken completely at face value and is actually serious business now? Uh... okay."

Guess I'm arguing that these characters should know better. But like I said: minor gripe.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:08 am

A little "word of God" from Amy Keating Rogers on the Alicorn micro-controversy:

Amy Keating Rogers wrote:According to what we discussed, Celestia and Luna were born as Alicorns.

I haven't watched the premiere so I don't know what folks are all freaked about.

I wasn't a writer on S6. But remember, Equestria was founded and the C&L became the Princesses.

I haven't seen the premiere. But here's the timeline as I see it.

1. ) Equestria is founded with Starswirl & co.
2. ) C&L are asked to be the Princesses of newly-founded Equestria. They've now been Princesses for a LONG time.
3. ) During that long, long, LOOONG time, no natural-born Alicorns were born. C&L didn't have foals...

So it's been a long, long, LOOOOONG time since an Alicorn was born. So long, they didn't think it was possible.

Again, didn't work on it and haven't seen it, so these are just my personal theories.


Taken from Twitter and put into a format that actually makes sense by EQD.
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Postby Daring Do (?) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:46 am

PaulloDEC wrote:There's a great little moment in the Reflections comic where it's revealed that Celestia sees Twilight as being like Star Swirl, while Luna sees her as being more like Celestia.


Not sure that's referring to leadership, though. This is one of those little things in that arc that make me think Cook was drawing on the Journal of the Two Sisters (and AKR seemed to love doing the historical echos/parallels thing in that book). Celestia actually was a little Twilight-y there, if I remember rightly.

Anyway, while I'm here, should probably finally give my thoughts on the episode:

I liked Sunburst. The VA and design are probably a big part of that, though. What I didn't like was that Starlight's whole thing still feels forced and like they're writing by the seat of their pants (and considering an M.A. Larson Twitter screencap I saw on derpibooru just the other day... It looks like they are). I think we can all agree her redemption in the S5 finale was more than a little abrupt, and her "motive" was both a little hard to believe and didn't really mesh with the S5 premiere.

Now in the S6 premiere, right off the bat, we're just expected to accept her new role. No smoothing us into it; Now Starlight's a nice pony and everyone's nice to her and Spike gives her a hug and all. It doesn't work for me, to be frank. Now, we've had our fair share of villain redemptions; This is My Little Pony, after all. But I reckon stuff like Discord, and even Sunset Shimmer, felt more natural than this.

Aside from all that, though (and it's pretty hard to ignore), let's see. The threat was a little "mundane" for my tastes (but some might argue that's a good thing, so this isn't necessarily a complaint, mind - Just didn't do it for *me* personally). And as for baby Flurry Heart...

Well. Like I said on EQD... This episode shows why you should never procreate. :gotcha: Dang foal was the cause of all the trouble. The "derp" faces the animators gave her right after she doomed everyone were great. (Everyone who says alicorn lore is going all over the place has a point, though, imo. Still, doesn't bother me half as much as the Starlight thing).

Maybe we should give Josh Haber a chance, actually. Might need a little time to find his wings and all; The S3 premiere (right after McCarthy took the reins) was a little underwhelming too, after coming off A Canterlot Wedding.
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Postby drunkill (?) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:19 am

I missed the live airing of this due to very slow/broken internet and was unable to stream it. Although catching up on the thread after watching the episode during the week and reading the IRC logs I'm glad mostly everyone liked the baby, it could have been very different and some of us in the spoiler subforums from awhile back had thoughts of Princess Skyla etc.

A good two episode opener, time to get the regular pony episodes coming our way!
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:00 pm

drunkill wrote:thoughts of Princess Skyla etc.

One thing I'd like to ask Josh Haber or the show's artists is if they'd seen the Skyla toy from way early on in FiM's run and had any thoughts of using her in the show. My guess is that they wouldn't have heard of her, since fandom-wise she didn't make that much of an impact (enough to where I doubt it'd percolate all the way up to them), but it's still something I'm curious about.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:10 pm

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:gotcha: Well that escalated quickly.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:26 pm

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Wow Pinkie, way to be racist :-/
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Postby ToastGhost (?) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:54 pm

Phrases this episode used too much:
Crystalling
Friendship Lesson
Magic School
Baby Magic
Wasteland
The Crystalling
Crystaller
*Important Wizard
Seriously say crystalling one more time I dare you :seethe:

It was alright, but nothing especially noteworthy. I thought the best part was seeing Shining Armor struggling to be a father. :-P

e: vvv

Also "Frozen Wasteland" was said at least once.
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Postby Adelor Lyon (?) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:00 pm

You forgot one.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:02 pm

Nobody said "wasteland" at all. :conftoot:
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Postby Adelor Lyon (?) » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:33 pm

I'm rewatching this for the first time via the iTunes file, and holy shit the 5.1 discrete audio mix when Flurry Heart sneezes the first time is insane. There's so much bass it moved things across my living room.

MOAR. :crack:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:51 pm

So...

Sunburst is a Heretic...

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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:21 pm

Maybe he got kicked out of Celestia's school for trying to push heliocentrism.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:25 pm

The Doctor wrote:So...

Sunburst is a Heretic...

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Wake up sheeple.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:32 am

The Doctor wrote:So...

Sunburst is a Heretic...

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That's actually pretty funny. Maybe "raise the sun/moon" is really just a euphemism for giving the "Earth" a little push every twelve hours?
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:31 pm

At finally at long last I'm able to have time to sit around and chew over a pony episode.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:22 am

:crack: Who's ready for some Grade A Stupid Predictions?

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Sunburst wants to become a wizard. He studies constantly, and he's buddies with someone who can screw with time. Basically, a recipe for chaos....

And he has that stupid little beard...

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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:56 am

But the Blinovitch Limitation Effect...
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