S05E01-02: The Cutie Map

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Re: S05E01-02: Cutie Markless

Postby Bremen (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:26 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Wow...I think that's a record for quickest fanart of an episode yet. Pretty cute too. :allears:


Not even close :twonk:

acksed wrote:Image


Oh man, this made my day. Again.
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:33 pm

The Doctor wrote::gotcha: And then the kids Pony show recreated 1984 with the Lance of Longinus

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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:39 pm

More from 502.

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:rainbert: : Annoying watermark, of course... :rant:

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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:40 pm

A part of me wonders why the title was changed. Could it possibly be the title for a later episode, perhaps? :ponder:
:plonk: Image :)
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Postby Stuff (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:43 pm

Holy crap I did not get the apple commercial reference the first time.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:48 pm

Discord wrote:Starlight Glimmer was a good villain. An interesting change of pace from previous ones. I'd like to know more about her, but it seems like they're saving that for perhaps some kind of council of evil at the end of the season (or during it)?

Seasons 3 and 4 made me wary of red herrings, but they definitely left enough unsaid in this episode to pull that off later. That spell makes her terrifying as a normal pony. Twilight was able to fight Tirek to a standstill, but one insta-zap later, she has no magic at all.

It's also not totally clear whether she had big plans for all those cutie marks she was storing, or if she just needed propaganda to spread her plan to equalize everypony. But if the latter's true, I feel like she should've had a backstory. Why would she try to rule over the lousiest town in Equestria? Did she not make it into Celestia's school? Is stealing cutie marks her special talent?

So yeah, I could totally see her coming back later.
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Postby Wildfire (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:55 pm

Wayoshi wrote:Image


That freakin' vein in her neck.... :yeah:
I think we've got a new rage smiley.

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http://arcuswind.deviantart.com/art/Equalizer-524703280

There is a torrent of Starlight art, vectors, GIF's, and memes being released.

Yep. It's good to be back in the swing of things. :-I
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:59 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:Seasons 3 and 4 made me wary of red herrings, but they definitely left enough unsaid in this episode to pull that off later. That spell makes her terrifying as a normal pony. Twilight was able to fight Tirek to a standstill, but one insta-zap later, she has no magic at all.

It's also not totally clear whether she had big plans for all those cutie marks she was storing, or if she just needed propaganda to spread her plan to equalize everypony. But if the latter's true, I feel like she should've had a backstory. Why would she try to rule over the lousiest town in Equestria? Did she not make it into Celestia's school? Is stealing cutie marks her special talent?

So yeah, I could totally see her coming back later.


This was probably my only issue with the episode. There was no reason for them to get caught. Twilight could have blocked the spell. Could and transported them all out. Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy could have flown away from the group. It was all a bit too convenient for them to get captured. Should have just had Starlight zap them in their sleep or something.
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Postby Bakufoon (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:09 pm

I think one of my favorite little details is when Twilight first meets Startight she flutters her wings just a bit to get Starlight to noticed she's an alicorn. :smirk:
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:16 pm

Also, they're finally crediting storyboard artists on an individual episode basis.

It only took them 5 seasons and 92 episodes for this to happen :v:
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Postby Ransom (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:24 pm

So,

Night Glider
Double Diamond
Party Favor
Sugar Belle

Any chance they show up again in the show and/or comics? Quite a bit of characterization put into them.
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Postby Venusy (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:25 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:Why would she try to rule over the lousiest town in Equestria? Did she not make it into Celestia's school? Is stealing cutie marks her special talent?

So yeah, I could totally see her coming back later.

I suppose the charitable view would be that Starlight genuinely does believe her philosophy, that she's helping ponies find friends where they would otherwise have had none, that the only way to be friends is to not have any dissenting opinions whatsoever (hence the harsh corrections for them), and the lack of ability to equalize her own cutie mark is the burden of the cult leader.

The uncharitable view is that Starlight is in possession of what is probably one of the most illegal spells in Equestria. If she didn't pick the lousiest town, Celestia would have found her before Twilight did, and while I get the feeling Celestia doesn't banish often, she probably would have done in this case - hell, now that I think about it, maybe that's how she ended up at the lousiest town in the first place, magical wards keeping her from anywhere more populated.

Maybe her backstory will be explored in the show, but it could just as easily be a setup for the comics.
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Postby Caldera (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:27 pm

Wowee. That sure was dystopian brainwashing in my pone show. :-I I spent the entire ponyless summer/winter outside of general ponies so I had no idea what to expect. I liked it, though. There's probably a lot of questions one could ask about cutie marks and how they work but I'm not gonna worry about it now.
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Postby Perpetual Lurker (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:30 pm

The Doctor wrote:
This was probably my only issue with the episode. There was no reason for them to get caught. Twilight could have blocked the spell. Could and transported them all out. Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy could have flown away from the group. It was all a bit too convenient for them to get captured. Should have just had Starlight zap them in their sleep or something.


Twilight was in the middle of casting a spell when she got hit. Starlight was just a quicker draw, no foul there. The rest of them had only a few seconds to react, and I doubt any of them would have ditched the others in a fight like that. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:32 pm

Perpetual Lurker wrote:
Twilight was in the middle of casting a spell when she got hit. Starlight was just a quicker draw, no foul there. The rest of them had only a few seconds to react, and I doubt any of them would have ditched the others in a fight like that. :pinkieshrug:


I'm not saying ditch the others, but start fighting back.
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Postby Venusy (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:36 pm

There was one pretty big elephant in the room when it came to Starlight's philosophy: the pegasi can still fly, and the unicorns still have access to the basic spells that it seems like every unicorn has. It's especially noticeable during Our Town - the pegasi bring RD down to the ground, but they all fly up for the finale.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:40 pm

The Doctor wrote:
I'm not saying ditch the others, but start fighting back.


She was fighting back; she teleported into firing position and started readying an attack; it's the exact same tactic she used on Tirek. If anything, this scene greatly impressed me that yeah, Twilight is extremely capable in a fight.

As to why Starlight won, I can think of several possible reasons. Maybe Twilight hesitated to fire on another pony, or was taking the time to use a more complicated but harmless spell to subdue them. Also, at the time she thought the staff was an artifact; maybe she didn't expect Starlight to be able to draw on its power so quickly.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:45 pm

Bakufoon wrote:I think one of my favorite little details is when Twilight first meets Startight she flutters her wings just a bit to get Starlight to noticed she's an alicorn. :smirk:

There was at least two "Hey you're an alicorn...you must be Princess Twilight!" moments and you could tell Twilight was just a little happy to be noticed. :twiright:
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Postby Seven Seas (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:49 pm

Oh my gosh oh my gosh that was oh my gosh I oh my gosh oh my gosh :awesomedash:

I'll have to reevaluate when I'm not on a :ponydrugs: high, but right now, this was my favorite season opener by a mile and probably one of the best episodes in the show. Favorite villain, for sure! The story felt exactly right-sized for what it was. The writing was incredibly good, with perfectly pitched dialogue and solid pacing-- perhaps a little slow for some tastes, but dang it I am so glad to have a two-parter with space to breathe. As for the story, I'm amazed by just how dark and real-world serious this got-- yet without taking the characters OOC or losing the episode's wonderfully pony feel-- which made the payoff at the end even sweeter.

We've all been assuming that the Cutie Map is going to be a blueprint for most of the big adventures and two-parters in Season 5 and beyond. If so, fuckin' sign me up.
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Postby BartonFink (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:53 pm

!saak wrote:Tumblr is instilling a "The villain is totally an an analogue for SJWs/anti-SJWs" (depending on which side is talking about it) kinda vibe on it :-I

This is pretty funny, but yeah I think "the dangers of groupthink" could be a better summary.

Caldera wrote:There's probably a lot of questions one could ask about cutie marks and how they work but I'm not gonna worry about it now.
It's funny because in the earliest days of the show I just kind of assumed them to be representations of talents, but since then it seems closer to actually affecting the mindset and abilities of the pony that has them. Shades of "Magical Mystery Cure". Hence the very concept of 'taking them away'.

I called them cordyceps and this is only more evidence for this conclusion. =P

Niels Olof wrote:Though I must point out that if we are dealing with an Orwellian vision here, it is Animal Farm rather than Nineteen Eighty-Four.

Maybe I'm a bit rusty on Animal Farm, but while the villain reveal and cult-ish dynamic of the town was definitely in that same style, isn't the "forced sameness" of everything a bit more on the 1984 side? Whole thing felt Orwellian so I'm possibly splitting hairs.

Pony show continues to impress by going to unexpected areas for inspiration. Funny, instantly strong villain (smart to give her room to return), little scenes like the muffin thing show how good the character writing can be. Really strong start to the season.
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:08 pm

I've just finished part 1, and I can already tell that this season is going to be great. There are just so many good lines and animations already.
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Postby die Fledermaus (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:10 pm

Yea it's more a general blended inspiration of Orwell's works and of course the kinds of governments that caused him to write them, it doesn't have one iron clad 'this is what this is' but more the general 'here's a common theme of abuse of power in the name of equality and unity that really is for a charismatic leader's own megalomania, and it has real world inspiration'
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:32 pm

Wildfire wrote:Outstanding start to the season. I think this is the first time the mane 6 relied on others to help them win.
there was a very heavy 1984 feel to it. The only thing missing was "Room 101" (unless you count it as the house they were locked in).
The announcements over the speaker reminded me of that one scene in Red Dawn, and that scene where they smash the cutie mark holder was definitely a ref' to this:


Onward to the rest of the season! :amazing:


Of course, given what they used instead of the sledgehammer, this was inevitable.

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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:36 pm

The Doctor wrote:


I think it was supereffective because Twilight's talent is magic, period- which means losing her mark = *ahem* no more spellcasting. That and the staff being a MacGuffin the whole time, meaning she likely was looking for a spellcast from the staff, not the unicorn holding it. Blindsided, OHKO'd, and out.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:38 pm

shotgunbadger wrote:Yea it's more a general blended inspiration of Orwell's works and of course the kinds of governments that caused him to write them, it doesn't have one iron clad 'this is what this is' but more the general 'here's a common theme of abuse of power in the name of equality and unity that really is for a charismatic leader's own megalomania, and it has real world inspiration'


Animal Farm has the famous “All Animals Are Equal” commandment (with the addendum “but some animals are more equal than others” at a later point as Napoleon gains control over the farm). Nineteen Eighty-Four has not much pretense of equality, as the population of Oceania is divided into the Inner Party, the Party, and the proles.

Still, as I wrote originally, there is also a It is a Good Day vibe of the strictly enforced cheerfulness of the resident ponies.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:40 pm

WandereringPony wrote:
I think it was supereffective because Twilight's talent is magic, period- which means losing her mark = *ahem* no more spellcasting. That and the staff being a MacGuffin the whole time, meaning she likely was looking for a spellcast from the staff, not the unicorn holding it. Blindsided, OHKO'd, and out.


Hmm, sounds like Twilight needs to take some magical sparring classes with her brother.
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Postby Applepie (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:43 pm

The ski pony and balloon pony was some of the highligts.
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Postby Ragnar (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:45 pm

If Starlight had been more up-front with the other villagers about how she needed her cutie mark in order to take theirs away, she would have been harder to beat, and if she'd put the bed back after running away, she probably would have gotten away in time. All I'm saying is, Twilight didn't beat Starlight. Starlight beat herself, which is just another way of saying Starlight won, if you think about it.
Such a skilled tyrant, she had to depose herself. That bit with the other ponies chasing her up the mountain? That's her leading the revolution, and at a dead run, too.

I'm not crystal clear on her motivations. Power, I guess? I didn't get the impression that she believed what she was saying.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:46 pm

Ragnar wrote:
I'm not crystal clear on her motivations. Power, I guess? I didn't get the impression that she believed what she was saying.


Collecting the power of cutie marks for eventual nefarious purpose?
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:48 pm

Niels Olof wrote:
Collecting the power of cutie marks for eventual nefarious purpose?


Possibly. She seemed to be taking the Cutie Marks just to keep the mane six away from them, rather than to try an use them and gain their powers.

Which is good because she'd really just be Tirek 2.0 if she was sucking powers from other ponies.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:56 pm

Part 1 emoticons. Not as many wacky faces as I'd expected. Also not sure if Fluttershy's cute face works without being animated.

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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:57 pm

The Doctor wrote:
Possibly. She seemed to be taking the Cutie Marks just to keep the mane six away from them, rather than to try an use them and gain their powers.

Which is good because she'd really just be Tirek 2.0 if she was sucking powers from other ponies.


(Butt) stamp collecting for megalomaniacs? She’s got a very nice display case after all...
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:02 pm

Niels Olof wrote:
(Butt) stamp collecting for megalomaniacs? She’s got a very nice display case after all...


If you're the only powerful pony in a sea of mediocrity, you rule. If she'd successfully brainwashed Twilight, it'd have been the Tom Cruise of her little cult and attracted even more ponies to brainwash and rule.

I mean, it wouldn't be the first equine-ish creature to want to rule over a sea of drones. :evil:
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:05 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:Part 1 emoticons. Not as many wacky faces as I'd expected. Also not sure if Fluttershy's cute face works without being animated.

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Image Well, if we need a ‘I just threw up in my mouth a little’ emoticon, we need look no further.

ImageImageImage These three are great.
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Postby Xaradius (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:29 pm

Watched it finally by the magical YouTube (HATE streams)

My thoughts:

For one side, first time that the villan not is evangelized for something so simple as 20 seconds speech about friendship. Much more realistic and simply brilliant. Im sure that she is going to repeat as the baddie of the finale, with another plan a bit more twisted. Song a bit boring, not the most memorable of the show.

For other, i loved that for one time they choosen something with less forced-epics and fanfares for the overture, but at the same time more simple, adventure-esque style and enjoyable, wihout losing his bit on darkness on the way. Solidly packed in the few time that they had.

Chapeau, loved it and i expect lot of wonderful things on this season. :yay:
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:36 pm

http://foudubulbe.deviantart.com/art/Di ... -524706851

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Ransom wrote:So,

Night Glider
Double Diamond
Party Favor
Sugar Belle

Any chance they show up again in the show and/or comics? Quite a bit of characterization put into them.


It would be cool, but probably not anytime soon. But hey, they're out there now and the show could still have several seasons ahead.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:43 pm

I predict Party Favor will be a big fan favorite.
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Postby Captain Rufus (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:46 pm

WandereringPony wrote:
If you're the only powerful pony in a sea of mediocrity, you rule. If she'd successfully brainwashed Twilight, it'd have been the Tom Cruise of her little cult and attracted even more ponies to brainwash and rule.

I mean, it wouldn't be the first equine-ish creature to want to rule over a sea of drones. :evil:


It's more like Starlight Hubbard. If she hadn't messed up ski pony so coulda been the Cruise or Travolta. Or does this make her Miscavige instead? :-/

Anyhow welcome back horsie cartoon I am entirely too old for. And total brofists to all you Ultima fans who seem to be out there besides me. :yay:
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:47 pm

Venusy wrote:There was one pretty big elephant in the room when it came to Starlight's philosophy: the pegasi can still fly, and the unicorns still have access to the basic spells that it seems like every unicorn has. It's especially noticeable during Our Town - the pegasi bring RD down to the ground, but they all fly up for the finale.

Well, she may have been half-lying about her philosophy - she took special interest in Twi's cutie mark, and in fact all the Mane 6's. It makes me wonder if she is plotting to replace her cutie mark with a "powerful" one, perhaps upset about her cutie mark (i.e. upset about her special talent / destiny).

Ragnar wrote:I'm not crystal clear on her motivations. Power, I guess? I didn't get the impression that she believed what she was saying.


In this same vein, I think this was intentional - there's easily potential for a backstory that, when resolved in a S5 finale, would address the heart of cutie marks as promised.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:50 pm

Some great staging here:

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They don't change the camera angle which emphasizes the claustrophobia of the little room, and they indicate the passage of time by elongating the sunbeams, which eventually form an equal sign.
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