S04E13: Simple Ways

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Re: S04E13: Simple Ways

Postby Discord (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:03 am

The Doctor wrote:I think a bigger overlying fault to this episode is it continues a pattern that this show just doesn't want to do romance. "Best Night Ever" and This treat it as more of a joke, though at least this one got the nice "don't change who you are" message. "Hearts and Hooves Day" played it off as a joke, and while they left the door open, they've never stepped through it. Canterlot Wedding saw the wedding of two characters we didn't know and at the time, didn't care about. And the focus was an evil threat to Equestria with the backdrop of a wedding plan. I think a well one romance plot with one of the mane 6 would work just fine. I wouldn't have minded if this episode ended with Trenderhoof and Applejack keeping in touch.


AJ wouldn't have been the best character to do it with though, at least no here. She's a workaholic pony who clearly doesn't really care for that sort of thing. That's not the say she couldn't ever find love, but eh.

The show isn't outright dismissing romance; I think this episode is a good indication of it as is, and even if it is a backdrop it is still present in CW and even TCE.

But ultimately, I don't think it's strictly necessary for the show to do that. The show has a loose continuity, and to actually develop a love interest for one of the mane 6 that would be worthy of investment, it would take multiple episodes and efforts that the show can't necessarily do (nor would it be worth doing). Media gives lots, and lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of examples for both young girls specifically, and general audiences, of romance- good, bad, and in-between. Not every piece of media need, or should do that, and not wanting to step down that route too deep is kind of something I see a woven into the show's very fabric. I think what they've done with romance thus far is pretty good, and there shouldn't be any need to go farther down just for the sake of doing it (see: Brad).
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:30 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Such romanticism is part of who she is, though. If, say, Rainbow Dash dropped all her goals and ambitions and suddenly went boy-crazy, then I'd be upset. But since looking for love in general isn't necessarily a bad thing, I'm fine with this show having folks like Rarity do that.


Yeah, that was the point I was trying to get across. It's awesome that she's so dedicated to looking for love, but never just cooling down and finding it. That's a part of who she is. What I meant was, if she started just accepting the love of those who chased after her instead of giving love that she felt (and hoped) was earned, I'd be disappointed.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:42 am

Discord wrote:The show has a loose continuity, and to actually develop a love interest for one of the mane 6 that would be worthy of investment, it would take multiple episodes and efforts that the show can't necessarily do (nor would it be worth doing). Media gives lots, and lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of examples for both young girls specifically, and general audiences, of romance- good, bad, and in-between. Not every piece of media need, or should do that, and not wanting to step down that route too deep is kind of something I see a woven into the show's very fabric. I think what they've done with romance thus far is pretty good, and there shouldn't be any need to go farther down just for the sake of doing it (see: Brad).

Indeed, that sort of time investment in building up a love interest is why I've thought the show should avoid getting any of the Mane 6 into a serious relationship. I do still think, though, that Spike and the CMC are in an ideal position to be used like that (particularly Sweetie Belle, since H&HD made her out to be something of a romantic like her sister). If Spike found someone who loves him back then that'd go a long way toward resolving his worries of not fitting in with ponies. And if one of them did start hanging out with Spike a whole bunch, to the exclusion of the other two, there's a friendship lesson to be told in how to balance time and attention between different friends of yours. And that's all just off the top of my head.
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Postby Ragnar (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:54 am

When this episode aired, all the "Authenticity!!!" douches of the world looked up and felt a chill, and their eyes blurred, and they knew not why.

And they walked away, and after them the wind followed and whispered, "diiiiiiiick"
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:22 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Indeed, that sort of time investment in building up a love interest is why I've thought the show should avoid getting any of the Mane 6 into a serious relationship. I do still think, though, that Spike and the CMC are in an ideal position to be used like that (particularly Sweetie Belle, since H&HD made her out to be something of a romantic like her sister). If Spike found someone who loves him back then that'd go a long way toward resolving his worries of not fitting in with ponies. And if one of them did start hanging out with Spike a whole bunch, to the exclusion of the other two, there's a friendship lesson to be told in how to balance time and attention between different friends of yours. And that's all just off the top of my head.



I'd be cool with them introducing a young Female dragon for Spike to date, or maybe have him hook up with a pre-existing minor/BG pony, How about Flitter, then Cathy Wesluck could get payed to say cutsie things to herself. :gotcha:
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Postby londonarbuckle (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:28 am

Spike dating one of the CMCs would be really, really weird. He just doesn't seem like one of their peers to me.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:30 am

londonarbuckle wrote:Spike dating one of the CMCs would be really, really weird. He just doesn't seem like one of their peers to me.



Agreed, IMO age wise spike is between the CMC & Mane Six. Not as young as the CMC, not as old as the mane six, stuck in the awkward middle.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:34 am

Maturity wise I'd say Spike is older than the CMC but much closer to them than adult ponies.

How strange would this look if it was an adult pony towering over him?

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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:39 am

The Doctor wrote:Maturity wise I'd say Spike is older than the CMC but much closer to them than adult ponies.

How strange would this look if it was an adult pony towering over him?

Image



Well just let spike be greedy for a couple minutes and he'll be bigger then Twy & co, :gotcha:

Speaking of which, still say it would be nice to see Spike learn how to control whatever primal impulse related to greed that makes dragons grow and do so at will.
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Postby Orange Fluffy Sheep (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:44 am

SoundMonkey44 wrote:Speaking of which, still say it would be nice to see Spike learn how to control whatever primal impulse related to greed that makes dragons grow and do so at will.


My first thought was this:

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I think this says more about me than anything.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:40 am

Orange Fluffy Sheep wrote:My first thought was this:

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Now I want an episode where Celestia is ill/absent and can't raise the sun, so Spike has to grow big enough to reach over and grab it.
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Postby Minty (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:07 am

I don't think he is supposed to control it, I think it was supposed to be a fluke. Or with controlling it, he would age naturally and be a talking dragon instead of a growly one.

That is, if this show had aging.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:08 am

SlateSlabrock wrote:Now I want an episode where Celestia is ill/absent and can't raise the sun, so Spike has to grow big enough to reach over and grab it.



That....would actually be pretty dang awesome! :awesomedash:
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:39 am

Ragnar wrote:When this episode aired, all the "Authenticity!!!" douches of the world looked up and felt a chill, and their eyes blurred, and they knew not why.

And they walked away, and after them the wind followed and whispered, "diiiiiiiick"


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Postby Stuff (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:56 am

That dude needed a huge scarf and a can of PBR.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:16 am

If we get a Giant Spike episode, I want it to be a partial remake of The Amazing Colossal Man.
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:35 am

Stuff wrote:That dude needed a huge scarf and a can of PBR.

:snobtavia: It's actually called a keffiyeh, if you didn't already know that. And PBR? It seems your knowledge of hipster culture has ossified circa 2007.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:23 am

londonarbuckle wrote:Spike dating one of the CMCs would be really, really weird. He just doesn't seem like one of their peers to me.

Really? I'd wondered about that myself, but after JFS I got the impression that he was supposed to be friends with them (and around their same age, too; after all, if he were notably older than they were then that all would've been kind of creepy). Still, that's something the show has done precious little of, so there is still room for interpretation there.
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Postby Aramek (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:41 pm

Stuff wrote:PBR.
:negative: I like PBR and now I'm afraid to order it because they'll think I'm one of theeeeeem. :negative:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:45 pm

I don't see how spike being older & being Friends with the CMC is any creepier then the mane six.

the characters level of Maturity changes randomly at times to fit the narrative I mean Rarity was arguably acting like a teenage girl this ep. Just like Spike acted more childish then usual in SAYS. Given both of those are extreme cases, but yeah. All the characters have their childish & mature sides. Heck even the CMC have moments where they seem more mature then mere elementary school students.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:55 pm

I always thought he was excellent friends with the CMC as well, seeing as they are basically sort of the same age.
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Postby Lapis Infinitas (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:46 pm

This is getting a little too close to shipping. We're talking about two different species. It's gonna be creepy regardless.
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Postby Perpetual Lurker (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:54 pm

Poor, poor mules. Forever banned by the creepy rule. :v:
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Postby Aramek (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:00 pm

Lapis Infinitas wrote:We're talking about two different species.

We're also talking about things that don't exist. Day cartoons. They have no feelings or personalities or dreams or aspirations.
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Your MRI results have shown total infection to now be approximately one fifth of the full mass of the tissue.

"So you're saying..."

Your brain is about 20% tumor.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:01 pm

The species difference was never an issue between him and Rarity. To me, any creepiness there was because of their age difference. At least, no one ever called him on the fact that he wasn't a pony when it came to his crush on her.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:23 pm

I thought mules were canon. Wasn't that one baker from MMMystery a mule? :pinkieshrug:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:39 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:I thought mules were canon. Wasn't that one baker from MMMystery a mule? :pinkieshrug:



Yep. Mules, griffons & minatours are all mish mashes of multiple animals..oh and manticores.

You know that actually brings up an interesting question, I wonder how equestian society views ponies that date Donkies, Dragons, Griffons, etc.
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Postby Aramek (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:41 pm

Probably poorly, becase, as we all know, Ponies are very, very racist. :amazing:
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Postby Perpetual Lurker (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:49 pm

I wanna see a Hippogriff! :awesomedash:
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:26 pm

So who wants to talk hipsters on the RT? I know everyone's dying to have their opinions on "authenticity" aired out. :twiright:
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Postby Electric Pony (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:35 pm

Has anybody mentioned that the patches on Trenderhoof's outfit were on his elbows? His horse elbows.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:36 pm

kefkafloyd wrote:So who wants to talk hipsters on the RT? I know everyone's dying to have their opinions on "authenticity" aired out. :twiright:


I did last weeks and I know you're trying to mix things up, but if there's room I'd love to.
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:58 pm

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:sweetielarm: AAHHHH this is so adorable I can't even tell you
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:08 pm

Yeah, Rarity's always adorable when she gets like that. :allears:
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:39 pm

kefkafloyd wrote:So who wants to talk hipsters on the RT? I know everyone's dying to have their opinions on "authenticity" aired out. :twiright:


Absolutely.
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Postby Perrydotto (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:40 pm

That whole bit with Rarity waiting for Trend at the train station was one of my favorite moments of the episode, if only because I could really relate to Rarity here. I was very much the same way down to the nervous and ridiculous behaviour when I met a certain idol of mine. :modesty:
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:46 pm

Would you say such behavior can be... disruptive? :excellent:
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Postby InsertAuthorHere (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:59 pm

kefkafloyd wrote:So who wants to talk hipsters on the RT? I know everyone's dying to have their opinions on "authenticity" aired out. :twiright:


If there's room, I'd love to join. Been a while since I did a RT.
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Postby Minty (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:06 pm

It's the little leg cross Rarity does that makes that picture adorable.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

So, now I had an opportunity to watch the proper, logo-free version, which sadly has not improved my opinion of the episode. I think I shall have to join the neigh-sayers :smug: (on a Rarity episode of all things :gonkity:)

The first ten minutes are beautiful. Excellent comedy, wonderful characterization. Rarity is just the pony to fall (again :ohrarity:) horn over hooves for somepony she hasn't met. Her world is one of ideals. Her very work life consists of her thinking up imaginative designs and then expertly turning them into reality (as referenced beautifully in this very episode). That she would imagine that her beautiful designs for a certain travel writer could be realized just as easily is plausible. It is beautiful, so it must be true.

But.

Then my suspense of disbelief is tested and broken. I do not see Rarity going country. No way, no how. If anything, she would out-Rarity herself, taking her concept (and herself) to eleven and beyond. There could still be a battle (of sorts, as Applejack in a non-combatant, not at all vying for Trenderhoof), but it wouldn't end in a pigs' sty. It would be gowns versus (rather baffled and increasingly annoyed) country.

In short, I think this episode should have taken a left turn at Albuquerque.

That doesn't change that Tabitha St. Germain is wonderful with what she is given, just as I think the Generosity song was saved by Kazumi Evans singing it.

(On a somewhat related note: being raised on a farm and all, I can't help but point out that that is not how you plow a field, Applejack. Not as ineffectual as Rarity, but still rather comical, when Applejack is supposed to be the farm pony. The furrows should be tightly packed side-by-side, turning over the upper layer of the soil of the entire field.)
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