Re: S07E10: A Royal Problem

-
adiwan
- Joined: Mar 27, 2015
- Location: Germany
- Gender: Male
Moderators: Perrydotto, Dexanth, Venusy, Wayoshi
The Doctor wrote:Well, that was just as bad as I thought it would be.
Celestia and Luna are idiots for the whole episode.
Wayoshi wrote:The wise sages Celestia/Luna were kinda built up to be as demigods has slowly deteriorated.
PaulloDEC wrote:
I think you're wrong, and I think that you watched this episode and interpreted Luna and Celestia's behaviour as "They're idiots" is a little worrying. They act like two people who've become distant towards one another as a result of taxing schedules and a lack of meaningful interaction. They act like two people who assume that because they have a really hard job, that they must have the only really hard job. These are very, very really scenarios, and I feel if you applied your "They're idiots" response to a similar example in the real world you wouldn't like the reaction you got.
I still want to see the "Celestia and Luna solve a problem together" story you were hoping for, but this was categorically not the disaster you were predicting.
The Doctor wrote:
The entire story is set up on the idea that after 1000 years of estrangement, these two learned exactly nothing about dealing with each other. Like immediately after their touching reunion in the pilot Celestia was just like "well, go take care of the Night", I'll see you are Cadance's wedding".
I'm totally fine with these two having problems. That's family, happens all the time. But there is no wisdom, or knowledge of their years here. They have to have it spelled out to them. A life and death battle and 1000 years of estrangement teaches them nothing, but a visit from the Writer's Pet solves all.
The Doctor wrote:I wasn't a huge fan of the recent Celestia and Luna Friends Forever comic, but at least in that they came to the realization there was a problem and solved it on their own.
This episode was just "lets add more to the list of things these two can't do" to me. There were ways this episode could have been done that didn't have to take Celestia and Luna down yet a few more pegs.
PaulloDEC wrote:
I think the scenario you've described is actually pretty plausible. It's like you finally see a family member again after you parted on bad terms many years ago, and it goes great and you get along and promise to one another that things will be different now.
But they're not. Life gets in the way, just like it did in the first place. Luna and Celestia want to be good to one another, but their responsibilities leave little room for it and even less room for each to understand what the other goes through every day. Starlight doesn't "spell it out to them", she executes the oldest trick in the book ("walk a mile in my shoes") and they do the rest on their own.
I truly don't understand this. Why do you think they've been diminished? What is it that you think they can't do after this episode? They ended the episode stronger than they began it.
The Doctor wrote:They ended the pilot stronger than they started, and well, that apparently meant nothing.
The Doctor wrote:Like I said before, give Celestia and Luna some competence and have them aware of a problem that needs to be addressed. Don't make them totally oblivious to it and needing to have it shoved in their face. These two can't defend their country, and now they can't even deal with each other without help.
PaulloDEC wrote:seems like you're suggesting that just because they "made up" back in the pilot that their relationship should now be perfect and complete, which strikes me as an incredibly simplistic attitude towards relationships.
The Doctor wrote:I'm totally fine with these two having problems.
PaulloDEC wrote:
What's so wrong with needing help? The Mane 6 have saved Equestria a bunch of times, and they need help constantly.
Adelor Lyon wrote:What I want to know is why was Celestia opening up a shopping mall?
PaulloDEC wrote:
Okay, then what was your implication in regards to the Pilot? In what other sense did you mean that it "meant nothing"?
Highbrow Dash wrote:Maybe it's a cartoon for girls and it shouldn't be a surprise that they act like cartoon characters and not wise 1000 year old demigods.
Dexanth wrote:Celestia and Luna also have been shown to like, rub each other the wrong way since forever. Besides Nightmare Moon, we have the Crystal Empire and Slice of Life off the top of my head.
Daring Do wrote:
I hope by "girls" you specifically meant little kids, because Faust's whole goal was to make a show for girls that *didn't* stink.
Highbrow Dash wrote:
I've made nearly 12000 posts in this forum, don't worry I didn't mean that pejoratively
I didn't mean to imply it'd be any different if it was a "cartoon for boys", but I guess I tend to stress that part because it's silly when people go "it's not for little girls, it's for people of all ages and genders cause it's actually good (and it references things)"
The Doctor wrote:
Crystal Empire was a disagreement on how to handle a threat.
Slice of Life was a small argument that they didn't let ruin the day and was clearly something they both brushed off given that they both seemed to enjoy the wedding.
And both are examples of them confronting each other with disagreements and problems and not ignoring them.
Soft Snow wrote:Praise the sun.
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I don't know how familiar you with a lot of different relationships, but those small arguments usually erode a relationship until they become big problems. It's like the idioms "the honey moon is over" and the "seven year itch" both implying a degeneration of a relationship over time. We were just seeing Celestia and Luna in the middle of that.
But I understand the need to see them prove their worth by defeating an opponent that overpowered everyone else or preforming some mastermind chest move to outwit an enemy. But right now they are still portrayed as being pretty powerful for they are currently the only ponies that can move the celestial bodies. Until Twi or Star can somehow do the same thing, they still have a few more pegs to knock down.
Aramek wrote:If they could control the situation themselves, they wouldn't have had the problem to begin with.
As they couldn't, they needed an outside force to correct their lack of control.
Aramek wrote:Plus, we get to see Starlight acting on her gut to fix things with magic and suffers no consequences for it because she's constantly right.
Starlight just can't stop winning.
Dexanth wrote:So really, this is Twilight's fault.
Ransom wrote:After a first viewing, I liked it! Overall a good episode and the sort of thing I'd been hoping for. Although I'm not sure this is how I always pictured Celestia. A little too grounded if you ask me.
It...does bring to light the question of what exactly happened with all those nightmares for the 1000 years Luna was gone.
Actually, a few more bits about how Celestia had to do double duty for 1000 years would have been good. They hinted a little at it with Daybreaker actually.
I do sort of wonder if we were supposed to gather that Starlight's projection of Daybreaker was drawing on Celestia's subconscious as much as Starlight's.
Ransom wrote:I do sort of wonder if we were supposed to gather that Starlight's projection of Daybreaker was drawing on Celestia's subconscious as much as Starlight's.
Gloomy Rube wrote:HOWEVER, the rest of the episode was good and the characterization was good. Starlight is showing real character growth with how much she CARES about Luna and Celestia.
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