S07E12: Discordant Harmony

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Re: S07E12: Discordant Harmony

Postby Headless Horse (?) » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:21 am

Whoo boy, low-key is right. And that seems ... kinda wrong for a Discord episode.

Sure, I agree it was super cute and finally makes the Fluttershy/Discord relationship feel lived-in rather than a goofy novelty. But I did find myself wishing it didn't lack so much in the humor department. Again, I can't help but think back to where Discord's roots are, namely in Return of Harmony, to this day possibly the funniest the show has ever been. And sure, part of that comedy was only as funny as it was because of the novelty of Discord's chaos gags, the likes of which we'd never seen or imagined before—but they were also really goddamned funny in their own right. And now, after Discord has become such a familiar face and his antics so well established as his MO, well... let's just say I can completely understand why Discord would have gone absolutely bonkers if he had to live with himself and his omnipotence for thousands of years.

Because is it just me, or does this whole setting raise a few too many meta-level questions about just what the hell Discord's deal is? In his first and then only appearance in S2, I could buy all his wacky gags as being the product of rebelliousness; this is how he lets loose when he's unleashed from prison. But surely, I thought, if he were to settle down for a few aeons of long-haul existence, turning houses upside-down and making it rain chocolate milk surely must stop being funny. What kind of being would keep being amused by his own consequence-free omnipotence forever? Who would not be consumed by the thought of the futility of it all within, like, days? There's no way a character with as much intelligence and ambition as Discord would ever be satisfied with mere godlike power.

Which of course is the underlying premise of the whole Discord/Fluttershy thing to begin with—"I can have anything I want, except a genuine friend". And that's a fine thread to pull, for as long as it lasts. But now we're at a place where I've simply stopped buying that Discord finds any kind of satisfaction in the mundane routine of weekly tea parties. What kind of psyche goes from manipulating universes to dreaming up "eating finger sandwiches with his actual fingers" and finds that fulfilling in any way? Even if it's to make Fluttershy laugh, which is the only thing I can think he's still finding novel about it at all. Even that doesn't seem like it could possibly be enough. I'd think, gaming out the kind of Asimov-style concept it toys with being, that Discord would eventually just shut down—or dedicate himself to something he might find a meaningful use of his time, or y'know, something. How much amusement can he keep deriving from basically doing magic tricks for himself, tricks whose entire entertainment value derives from their impossibility in a mundane world, but which are inherently uninteresting to Discord himself because the world he lives in doesn't follow any mundane rules anyway? It's no more amusing to Discord to make tea pour upward than it would be for me to pour it downward. It's just how our respective worlds are. He's literally just living "normally".

So while I think the "fading away" concept is probably a good thing to have come up with for Discord in the long run, I wish it had been introduced, like, a long time ago. As it is, it feels like a weird afterthought, not to mention derivative of stuff like Tinker Bell (she only exists if you believe! clap or she'll fade away!) in the tone of its delivery. It doesn't feel "native" to the pony world, even to Discord's corner of it. It's the right call to give Discord an existential weakness, since without one he's fundamentally really boring—and the more so the longer he keeps existing as part of the show. But coming so late in the game, and paired with a tea party as the backdrop for what Discord finds important to spend his attention on nowadays... I don't know, I find it pretty hard to swallow that there's any continuity at all between this vision of Discord and the one that came before.

To be sure this is what happens when the show has generational turnover in its writing staff and keeps living season-to-season on the pleasure of Hasbro, repeatedly girding themselves for a grand finale and then always getting reprieved and having to pull more rabbits out of their collective hats. I don't envy them the job one bit; I'm to this day impressed that they've managed to keep it as coherent as they have. But as with the characterization reboot that Celestia and Luna have undergone this season, it seems Discord is fair game as well for a reimagining, because without one there's nowhere else for him to go.

All that said, I definitely did enjoy seeing Fluttershy completely comfortable in her relationship with Discord and what she expects out of it, taking initiative in fixing the problems she sees in it; and it was also nice to see Pinkie out doing some normal everyday shopping in town. She's got to go through tons of supplies...!

My main gripe to the writers would be: be more funny. Otherwise, solid crack at a seemingly impossible task; godspeed you crazy bastards, and may you somehow manage to pull this out in the long run.
Last edited by Headless Horse on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:45 am

Headless Horse wrote:So while I think the "fading away" concept is probably a good thing to have come up with for Discord in the long run, I wish it had been introduced, like, a long time ago. As it is, it feels like a weird afterthought, not to mention derivative of stuff like Tinker Bell (she only exists if you believe! clap or she'll fade away!) in the tone of its delivery. It doesn't feel "native" to the pony world, even to Discord's corner of it. It's the right call to give Discord an existential weakness, since without one he's fundamentally really boring—and the more so the longer he keeps existing as part of the show. But coming so late in the game, and paired with a tea party as the backdrop for what Discord finds important to spend his attention on nowadays... I don't know, I find it pretty hard to swallow that there's any continuity at all between this vision of Discord and the one that came before.

I think that's why I doubt this is quite so much a literal requirement to Discord's continued existence and think it's more something he was doing as a cry for help. Whereas we don't have too many worldly facts on how Discord exists at all, we do know plenty about his personality and how he tends to act out his feelings instead of talking about them, often to the harm or annoyance of others but this time to himself. As I write this I'm now thinking of Three's A Crowd as well, how he gave himself a fake illness chiefly to elicit sympathy and attention from Twilight and Cadance. There's been no such suggestion before that he cannot behave by any sense of law and order, whereas there's been plenty that he's a bad communicator by most means that aren't him doing wacky crap, so I'm inclined to see that as his way of expressing his concern.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:58 pm

Headless Horse wrote:Which of course is the underlying premise of the whole Discord/Fluttershy thing to begin with—"I can have anything I want, except a genuine friend". And that's a fine thread to pull, for as long as it lasts. But now we're at a place where I've simply stopped buying that Discord finds any kind of satisfaction in the mundane routine of weekly tea parties. What kind of psyche goes from manipulating universes to dreaming up "eating finger sandwiches with his actual fingers" and finds that fulfilling in any way? Even if it's to make Fluttershy laugh, which is the only thing I can think he's still finding novel about it at all.


I find this criticism a little odd, given your defense of "A Royal Problem" as an episode that helps push the Princesses away from all that fancy god-queen stuff because they need room to tell more personal stories with them. If Discord is just inevitably a being who can't be happy unless he's inverting people's DNA for a laugh, how could anyone relate to him?

I think that was the point of both "Return of Harmony" and "Keep Calm and Flutter On": That Discord probably could wipe out all ponies with a snap of his fingers, but he needs someone to share it with, even if only to gloat. He could've hypnotized Twilight like her friends, but he didn't because the fun was in getting her to admit she was defeated. He could have taken Fluttershy at her word that she wouldn't consign him to a thousand years in stone, but he surrendered because being "chaotic" but totally alone is the worst boredom he can imagine.

My main gripe to the writers would be: be more funny.

But I agree with this.
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Postby Venusy (?) » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:59 am

So, uh, I don't really watch the show anymore, but Fizzbuzz recommended I watch this one a while back because of the applicable moral. And it's a good moral and a good episode, but I'm also going to have to agree that without anyone else to play off, some of Discord's antics did get a bit grating.

Once Fluttershy started thinking chaotically, I was really hoping for a payoff of "Discord grants Fluttershy a fraction of his powers" - because yeah, if you live in a home full of impossible things, it seems like you would eventually find them mundane - and so the only source of genuine chaos could be the unpredictability of other people. But that's probably an episode hook by itself.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:30 am

Venusy wrote:Once Fluttershy started thinking chaotically, I was really hoping for a payoff of "Discord grants Fluttershy a fraction of his powers" - because yeah, if you live in a home full of impossible things, it seems like you would eventually find them mundane - and so the only source of genuine chaos could be the unpredictability of other people. But that's probably an episode hook by itself.

Eh, who says you need godlike powers to have compassion for your friends and a sense of humor? :smirk:
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