S06E19: Buckball Season

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Re: S06E19: Buckball Season

Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:48 am

Enjoyable episode, but didn't do an awful lot to distinguish itself.

The actual story was really straightforward, so I feel like the flavour here needed to come from the dialogue; for my money, it didn't really achieve that. A lot of the back and forth was spent on exposition, and in the bits between no-one seemed to have much interesting to say.

There was some nice action though, and Buckball was interestingly designed. Having Snails pop up was quite funny too.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:20 am

SlateSlabrock wrote:PONY APPLIES THE LIPSTICK
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This whole sequence of the incompetent unicorns sucking in various ways slayed me. :lol:

And I agree with Aramek, the game was awesomely designed, especially for the purposes of the episode. It's as obvious in retrospect as pro-bending in Korra: a role for each pony type, leveraging their unique talents. Kicking / levitating / hover-blocking. Genius.

Props to Jennifer Skelly for a top-notch S1-feeling episode, right down to the overbearing but earnest moral!

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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:29 am

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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:34 am

I think with so few episodes left it's safe to say I'm not liking this season so much :-I There's been some really awesome episodes but there's more "filler" than usual.

Buckball was interestingly designed and there were some good moments, but this episode overall was kind of boring. It felt season 1 in the sense that the conflict and the way it was presented was very kid's cartoon-ish, but it wasn't particularly funny or cute about it :pinkieshrug:

VGAddict wrote:I feel the dialogue lacks subtlety.

Maybe it's just me.


Basically this.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:53 am

Headless Horse wrote:And I agree with Aramek, the game was awesomely designed, especially for the purposes of the episode. It's as obvious in retrospect as pro-bending in Korra: a role for each pony type, leveraging their unique talents. Kicking / levitating / hover-blocking. Genius.

Hey, I thought I said it first. :-P

And I think the cool thing about buckball more than a role for every :racis: was how you could easily expand upon it and design playbooks like in real American football. Have the bucker and unicorn know a bunch of set plays in advance - where is the ball going? What type of plays get around the opponent team's pegasus the best? etc.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:57 am

Highbrow Dash wrote:I think with so few episodes left it's safe to say I'm not liking this season so much :-I There's been some really awesome episodes but there's more "filler" than usual.

The only awesome episode this season for me has been Saddle Row Rec, which I think almost everyone loved as well and would rate as S6's best. This was a cute ep that felt the most like S1 in a long time, but in terms of moral, story structure etc it was very obviously forecast.

I hate the term "filler" - I know you probably didn't mean it this way - but this show's direction is still exactly what we got today, despite what story arcs they've tried.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:10 am

Wayoshi wrote:The only awesome episode this season for me has been Saddle Row Rec, which I think almost everyone loved as well and would rate as S6's best. This was a cute ep that felt the most like S1 in a long time, but in terms of moral, story structure etc it was very obviously forecast.

I hate the term "filler" - I know you probably didn't mean it this way - but this show's direction is still exactly what we got today, despite what story arcs they've tried.


I hear that word a lot these days, and frequently in reference to shows that aren't even arc-heavy to begin with. I think a lot of people just use it to refer to episodes they don't find interesting or meaningful now.

As for the balance of great episodes to average episodes, I think the show makes it harder for itself the longer it goes on. Each season tends to have at least one episode that raises the bar, so every successive season has a higher standard to match.

To put it another way, episodes that might've been "good" in Season one or two are now probably more like "okay" or even "poor".
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:23 am

Wayoshi wrote:The only awesome episode this season for me has been Saddle Row Rec, which I think almost everyone loved as well and would rate as S6's best. This was a cute ep that felt the most like S1 in a long time, but in terms of moral, story structure etc it was very obviously forecast.

I hate the term "filler" - I know you probably didn't mean it this way - but this show's direction is still exactly what we got today, despite what story arcs they've tried.


Oh yeah, hence the quotes :v: I'm definitely not asking for a season long story arc or anything like that. I was just referring to episodes that seem largely forgettable and I'll never rewatch, like Applejack's Day Off, The Cart Before The Ponies or, well, anything with Discord :-I

They're still giving us some top tier ones like Saddle Row, No Second Prances, Heart's Warming Tail and others though.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:35 am

PaulloDEC wrote:As for the balance of great episodes to average episodes, I think the show makes it harder for itself the longer it goes on. Each season tends to have at least one episode that raises the bar, so every successive season has a higher standard to match.

To put it another way, episodes that might've been "good" in Season one or two are now probably more like "okay" or even "poor".


Eh, I don't think the bar's been raised at all. I can rewatch S1 episodes and enjoy them even now, because they're just solid all around even now. And you can't tell me the new Discord eps or Twilight's Kingdom are better than The Return of Harmony or A Canterlot Wedding :-I

I do think the showmakers are more ambitious now... Which isn't necessarily a good thing. We do get some great stuff, but also some big misses, and at the end of the day the best episodes of this show aren't ones with a good premise, but the ones that nail the execution.

This episode is very season 1 cause it's a simple and unambitious premise, I just don't think they gave us enough ponies being cute & funny, which is ultimately what the show's about :-P
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:36 am

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As I said, I liked Snails in this episode, but we need more sun horse. :pcstare:

I was half expecting Celly to appear at the end of this episode to congratulate the winners.
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Postby Angel Beat (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:36 am

Wayoshi wrote:Anyone else think these few seconds in particular was a bit too exaggerated? Like the animators are trying a bit too hard to have unique faces in each new key moment, and it comes off as not entirely organic.

Don't have a copy of the ep to get pix right now, but yeah. :pinkieshrug: Like, this face is just... not uncanny, but very unpony IMO

Oh thank goodness, I wasn't the only one. :v: If they'd toned down Fluttershy's face a bit, it would've been better. :allears:
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:45 am

Highbrow Dash wrote:I do think the showmakers are more ambitious now... Which isn't necessarily a good thing. We do get some great stuff, but also some big misses, and at the end of the day the best episodes of this show aren't ones with a good premise, but the ones that nail the execution.

I disagree. The animators are still doing great work, but this season has had a lot of first-time writers, and the common complaint is that too many episodes haven't had enough flavor (good jokes, pushing the show's mythology further, growing characters' personalities, A/B plot lines). Earlier seasons did have episodes that tried to do too much and ran out of time at the end, but we haven't gotten many of those this season.

That said, I thought this one was cute enough, and the pacing was good. It also didn't make Dash a huge jerk for the whole episode.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:47 am

Highbrow Dash wrote:
Eh, I don't think the bar's been raised at all. I can rewatch S1 episodes and enjoy them even now, because they're just solid all around even now. And you can't tell me the new Discord eps or Twilight's Kingdom are better than The Return of Harmony or A Canterlot Wedding :-I

I do think the showmakers are more ambitious now... Which isn't necessarily a good thing. We do get some great stuff, but also some big misses, and at the end of the day the best episodes of this show aren't ones with a good premise, but the ones that nail the execution.


I think they're constantly raising the bar, to be honest. Stories like RoH and ACW are still as fantastic now as they ever were, but others like The Cutie Map, Amending Fences, Rarity Investigates, A Hearth's Warming Tale or The Saddle Row Review are routinely making me rethink what this show is and what kind of stories it's capable of telling.

I can happily rewatch S1 episodes too, but I'm coming at them as someone who fell in love with the show through those stories. There's no possibility of me objectively comparing those episodes to the newer ones, because I wasn't the same person six years ago as I am now.

This episode is very season 1 cause it's a simple and unambitious premise, I just don't think they gave us enough ponies being cute & funny, which is ultimately what the show's about :-P


Don't disagree with this. The script was functional, but lacked sparkle. Not Twilight Sparkle, the metaphorical kind of sparkle.
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:49 am

Wayoshi wrote:Anyone else think these few seconds in particular was a bit too exaggerated? Like the animators are trying a bit too hard to have unique faces in each new key moment, and it comes off as not entirely organic.

Don't have a copy of the ep to get pix right now, but yeah. :pinkieshrug: Like, this face is just... not uncanny, but very unpony IMO

I prefer they try and fail then to never try at all. Facial expressions are usually a hit or miss and overall this season has been excellent with them.

It does feel like it is missing a little something and I do believe the execution is off. I remember fans use to say you could put the main six in an elevator for a half hour and get an entertaining episode. I feel that could still happen if done right. I think this slight change might be from all the new writers that came on board this season and not enough oversight telling them to be more bold or giving them enough focus. They are pushing in a new direction, just not in the right direction.
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Postby Auxiliatrix (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:53 am

Highbrow Dash wrote:Buckball was interestingly designed and there were some good moments, but this episode overall was kind of boring. It felt season 1 in the sense that the conflict and the way it was presented was very kid's cartoon-ish, but it wasn't particularly funny or cute about it :pinkieshrug:


I feel like the whole Season has kind of been Season 1. "Applejack's 'Day' Off", "The Cart Before the Ponies", this episode, and a good chunk of the other ones. I think the way this Season is more like Season 1 (particularly the second half) is because, not only are the conflicts simple, but the "serious" moments and "heart" are very short. The only episode of the second half that has actually done this, so far, is "The Times, They are a Changeling", and even then, I thought that episode was much too rushed and mediocre.

I did enjoy this episode, however. I thought the jokes did work, even if I would have preferred a more original, heart-felt plot. In terms of execution, it also didn't do anything particularly "wrong". :-P
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Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:56 am

Considering I was expecting this episode to be awful, light and enjoyable is probably a blessing in disguise. So seems the Little Strongheart rumors were just that. Buckball works as a believeable fantasy sports, and Fluttershy was excellent.

So yeah a surprisingly okay episode.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:01 am

When I hear the word filler, I think of episodes that don't go anywhere, but just kinda have fun and maintain the status quo. I don't mind this with FiM; at the end of the day it's not really a story based show, but about the humor and characters, and those shine through just fine in filler. For instance, I'd consider Saddle Row Review a filler ep (Rarity was opening a new shop, sure, but it wasn't her first new one, so not really breaking new ground), and I'd agree that it's one of the best episodes this show has ever done :awesomedash:

I do kinda agree that S6 hasn't been the best so far. I was kinda waiting until the end and the inevitable "Rate the season" thread to say anything, but I suspect it might have something to do with larger number of new writers. It's not that I think they're bad writers, but I doubt many new writers to an established show want to make big waves, and they're filling in the shoes of writers like Amy Keating Rogers and M.A. Larson, so I don't think it's surprising we've been getting fewer really memorable episodes.

This episode wasn't fine, though. I don't think it'll be memorable, but it was still a fun episode.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:18 am

Bremen wrote:I do kinda agree that S6 hasn't been the best so far. I was kinda waiting until the end and the inevitable "Rate the season" thread to say anything, but I suspect it might have something to do with larger number of new writers. It's not that I think they're bad writers, but I doubt many new writers to an established show want to make big waves, and they're filling in the shoes of writers like Amy Keating Rogers and M.A. Larson, so I don't think it's surprising we've been getting fewer really memorable episodes.


I hadn't actually thought about it, but man, there really are lots of episodes by writers new to the show this season:

1 Josh Haber
2 Josh Haber
3 Michael P Fox and Wil Fox (NEW!)
4 Dave Polsky/Josh Haber
5 Lewis and Songco
6 Nick Confalone
7 Dave Rapp (NEW!)
8 Michael Vogel (NEW!)
9 Nick Confalone
10 Michael P Fox and Wil Fox (NEW!)
11 Dave Rapp (NEW!)
12 Michael Vogel (NEW!)
13 Josh Haber/Michael Vogel (NEW!)
14 Ed Valentine
15 F.M. De Marco (NEW!)
16 Kevin Burke and Chris Wyatt (NEW!)
17 Nick Confalone
18 Jennifer Skelly (NEW!)

That's not to say that I think the new writers haven't been doing some good work. I think Mike Vogel knocked it out of the park with "Hearth's Warming Tail", I really enjoyed Fox and Fox's work on "Gift of Maud Pie" and Dave Rapp did a terrific job with "Flutter Brutter".
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Postby Bremen (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:27 am

You missed 8. But yeah, lots of new writers this season, and I think that's lead to some simpler, more by the books plots than we'd come to expect after five previous seasons of some really awesome writers.
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Postby RudeCyrus (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:32 am

PonyHag714 wrote:Image

As I said, I liked Snails in this episode, but we need more sun horse. :pcstare:

I was half expecting Celly to appear at the end of this episode to congratulate the winners.

Looks like any Celestia development is the realm of the comics. :v:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:47 am

"No Celestia Episode" is going to be my free space in S7 Bingo. :fluttersmith:
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Postby Blarghalt (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:53 am

rudecyrus wrote:Looks like any Celestia development is the realm of the comics. :v:


:-I So Celestia, why have you apparently never changed?

:pcstare: Of course I never change. I'm literally the Status Quo incarnate. My middle name is Status Quo. My full name is Princess Status Quo Dearest-Sister-You-Lost-Our-Wager-Now-This-Must-Be-A-Part-Of-Your-Name-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha Celestia.

:pcstare:

:pcstare: Some advice, Twilight. If your sibling proposes a bet over the results of a buckball game, decline.
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Postby adiwan (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:42 am

Celestia isn't allowed to change. If she changes that would mean that she has to get older to reflect the change.
It's hard to do nothing new and remain 1000 years of youth.
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Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:29 pm

So do Fluttershy's tail extensions count as an unfair advantage?
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Postby Davyinatoga (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:10 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:Didn't we have a YEAH! emoticon? I can't find it.
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What the hell happened to Cloudchaser?!
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Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:12 pm

She took a trip to train in Pony Russia
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:32 pm

Davyinatoga wrote:What the hell happened to Cloudchaser?!

She caught the cloud and gained its power of being huge and puffy.
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Postby Angel Beat (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:16 pm

DerFurShur wrote:Pony Russia

...Prussia? :cheese:
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:01 pm

Analyzing those Flut faces I was talking about a bit more:

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Fluts takes charge.

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This face is fine.

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Borderline.

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Borderline.

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Fine.

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The eyes just kill this for me, don't look right.

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aaaaaaaaaaa get those scrunchy lips away from me god

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this is fine

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In conclusion:

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Just a couple really odd choices in a couple spots kinda ruined the whole sequence for me, but it wasn't as bad as I first thought. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:40 pm

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She looks like she's trying to eat corn nuts. :ponder:
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Postby Perinerd (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:49 pm

Wayoshi wrote:Anyone else think these few seconds in particular was a bit too exaggerated? Like the animators are trying a bit too hard to have unique faces in each new key moment, and it comes off as not entirely organic.

Don't have a copy of the ep to get pix right now, but yeah. :pinkieshrug: Like, this face is just... not uncanny, but very unpony IMO


It feels like a lot of seasons since season 2 have a moment where they just try and force a 'meme' face. Like Dash's angry face in Tanks for the Memories. It was funny at first but now it's overplayed and I'm more surprised when there ISN'T one in an episode.

Seeing a lot of mixed opinions on the episode. Season 1 was my favourite season but this episode still felt bland and if I had to categorize if anything I'd put it in the bad part of Season 3.
Unless the season finale manages to pull something unforgettable off, I think this season might end up being, well, not that great... :crushed: Here's to hoping they turn things around for the last couple of episodes
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:46 pm

I'm still laughing at "The zone sounds like a horrible place". :snicker:
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:51 pm

Image Fluttershy, you have to get into the zone.

Image

Image The bunny zone.

:allears:


Also, a buckball endorsement of the highest order.

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Postby Octavia (?) » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:19 pm

Finally got a chance to see the episode and I really liked it. :allears:

Moral of the story: It's better to manage like Joe Maddon than like Bobby Knight. :spike101:
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:23 pm

Perinerd wrote:It feels like a lot of seasons since season 2 have a moment where they just try and force a 'meme' face. Like Dash's angry face in Tanks for the Memories. It was funny at first but now it's overplayed and I'm more surprised when there ISN'T one in an episode.


I don't think the staff tries to "pander to the fans" the way they're constantly accused of; goofy faces are probably just the animators throwing silly stuff in because they want to.

But for this episode's faces, season 6 seems to have a pattern of being less on-model and more "loose." I wonder if they've gotten new storyboard artists, or if they're sticking closer to those sketches when they do the final drawings.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:30 pm

I agree with Octavia. I mean, I don't know... I guess the stories of the Mane Six and their friends have gone so far since S1 that episodes which don't involve them moving forward in their lives are seeming stale to some people? Or something? Whatever it is, I don't see a problem with that. I think it's fine to have a variety like this, like to have Spike majorly advocating for racial tolerance one week and playing pony D&D the next. At the very least, I'm enjoying the direction S6 has gone.

I particularly appreciated the design of the game itself, as Aramek and HH pointed out. I'd predicted that it was just going to be ponies playing kickball, which would not have been terribly original but still something solid around which to build a story, but instead we got something cool and new.

Wayoshi wrote:Anyone else think these few seconds in particular was a bit too exaggerated? Like the animators are trying a bit too hard to have unique faces in each new key moment, and it comes off as not entirely organic.

Don't have a copy of the ep to get pix right now, but yeah. :pinkieshrug: Like, this face is just... not uncanny, but very unpony IMO

It's definitely different, but I think the animators have been doing a great job this season, with things like this as well as all the action that Applejack and Rainbow Dash put on in the practice montage (and how Pinkie Pie and Fluttershy subsequently ate it). Like, in seasons 1-4 the artists and animators figured out what worked, so in S5 they started pushing the backgrounds and environments into overdrive and the same with the characters this season. I think the best way to describe it is that it's less restrained than early seasons were.
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:44 pm

I kinda liked Fluttershy's ranty face but the reality is the show already did it and did it better.

:rant:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:11 am

Actually the thing that felt weirder about the ranty Fluttershy scene for me wasn't the exaggerated faces so much as the fact that it was her blowing up and protesting how they were being treated. I know she's come a long way since her early appearances, and lord knows we've been cheering her every step of the way, but ... I don't know, it felt like it came out of nowhere dramatically. In the scenes leading up to the blowup, it felt like if anyone was going to lose it it would be Pinkie; and Fluttershy wasn't really showing signs of bottling up her feelings or anything in the leadup to it. The two of them trudged offscreen, and then another scene started and suddenly Fluttershy was getting all up in our grill. It felt really abrupt.
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Postby Adelor Lyon (?) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:17 am

Headless Horse wrote:Actually the thing that felt weirder about the ranty Fluttershy scene for me wasn't the exaggerated faces so much as the fact that it was her blowing up and protesting how they were being treated. I know she's come a long way since her early appearances, and lord knows we've been cheering her every step of the way, but ... I don't know, it felt like it came out of nowhere dramatically. In the scenes leading up to the blowup, it felt like if anyone was going to lose it it would be Pinkie; and Fluttershy wasn't really showing signs of bottling up her feelings or anything in the leadup to it. The two of them trudged offscreen, and then another scene started and suddenly Fluttershy was getting all up in our grill. It felt really abrupt.

I'm 100% sure that scene was treated that way because the writer thought it would be funny and not because it's a character development moment. Notice how Fluttershy was going crazy and Pinkie was really shy and quiet; it's a classic cartoon role reversal trope. This was one of those moments; while many of "us" are overthinking it and wondering why, little kids are laughing their butts off because "Haha wow Fluttershy doesn't act like that ever and that was funny, and Pinkie was so quiet and shy! Funny!"

As much as I want to keep believing every episode builds off the previous and we're really watching these characters grow and develop, I chalk this one down more to a new writer who is writing a cartoon episode and not one of the older writers who've been there since the beginning and is invested in the characters and their consistency. In a nutshell, sometimes the show is eager to show off its amazing and developing world and characters, and sometimes it's just a really great cartoon.

...not saying it's not still fun to overanalyze, though. :smirk:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:34 am

I didn't come away feeling like that, or at least not feeling like it was a case of new-writer syndrome. Jennifer Skelly struck me as the type who cares about the show and characters despite her newness to the MLP writing staff, judging by a look through her tweets. Maybe she did it specifically because it'd be funny without also being exceptionally out of place given how Fluttershy has changed between the beginning and now?
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