S06E12: Flutter Brutter

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Re: S06E11: Flutter Brutter

Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:46 am

Daring Do wrote:
Well, now you've got me feeling I'm somehow spoiled/ignorant. ;_; Cause I set the bar for "upper middle class" a little higher myself. I thought flowerbeds and stuff were normal.



Stuff like flower beds are for people with free time and energy to maintain that shit, my great grandmother did until she couldn't, so yeah the only people you usually see with them are middle class couples or retirees.

And yeah they must have bank, since Zephyr knows to mooch off them.
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
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Postby Daring Do (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:57 am

DerFurShur wrote:Flutterdad worked at the Weather Factory long enough to retire and he has a collection of the best samples from every product line since he started working. They wouldn't let some schmoe line pony have those, and it implies he was either middle management or might have been involved in the "designing" of the clouds, since that collection is something belonging more of an architect or engineer or some shit.

As for Fluttermom she was never implied to have a job, and going by how meticulous their home is she's probably a homemaker. So they were able to afford that home, a second full building and support two children (one into his pony-equivalent twenties) all on one salary.

As for Fluttershy's job, by now I've excepted she extorts Ponyville for bits, otherwise she'll sick bears and shit on them.


Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I can see where you're coming from.
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Postby Daring Do (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:01 am

DerFurShur wrote:

Stuff like flower beds are for people with free time and energy to maintain that shit, my great grandmother did until she couldn't, so yeah the only people you usually see with them are middle class couples or retirees.

And yeah they must have bank, since Zephyr knows to mooch off them.


My parents were middle class (but not *upper* middle class), and my mom had a lot of little garden spots in different parts of our property. She worked, too, so I guess it either didn't need a huge amount of time or she was pretty energetic.

My aunt and uncle, meanwhile (who are actual upper middle class) have a gardener to take care of theirs. Plus they have fruit trees.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:03 am

DerFurShur wrote:Flutterdad worked at the Weather Factory long enough to retire and he has a collection of the best samples from every product line since he started working. They wouldn't let some schmoe line pony have those, and it implies he was either middle management or might have been involved in the "designing" of the clouds, since that collection is something belonging more of an architect or engineer or some shit.

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:gotcha: I want his fan name to be "Industrial Espionage"
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:06 am

Alrght stupid "Big Jim trying to be Larson" twitter nonsense aside, Fluttershy's parents are basically the parents all my well off friends have.

Except Shy's parents aren't divorced yet.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:09 am

:whysoserious:

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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:12 am

Why are you using a meme from 2008?
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:13 am

DerFurShur wrote:Why are you using a meme from 2008?


Because the show did. :spike101:


edit: My mistake. I posted that picture, and it was in no way meant to be a reaction to your post. I just thought it was an amusing reference in the show.
Last edited by The Doctor on Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:14 am

DerFurShur wrote:Why are you using a meme from 2008?


...because it looks a lot like all the Dark Knight "why so serious?" promo stuff?
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:16 am

Yeah it does I guess.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:31 am

Ironically as this episode aired today, I moved into a summer sublet as my thesis advisor from back in undergraduate is giving me a chance at an internship after a year and a half of striking out on the job market. As someone on the autism spectrum, interviews have not been kind to me, yet my double physics and computer science degree clearly shows my potential for people who get to know me after I acclimate to them... such as my thesis advisor.

As already said last page, there are so, so many ways to be "freeloading" in today's world. A nuanced, comprehensive look at it in a 22 minute cartoon, no matter how good said cartoon is, was never going to happen. The simple solution here does "ignore" situations like mine, but with the show already treading mature ground here I would have shocked if they went even further down this road. Like, I can barely imagine this in S1 with the way Fluts' character is here.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:45 am

Wayoshi wrote:Ironically as this episode aired today, I moved into a summer sublet as my thesis advisor from back in undergraduate is giving me a chance at an internship after a year and a half of striking out on the job market. As someone on the autism spectrum, interviews have not been kind to me, yet my double physics and computer science degree clearly shows my potential for people who get to know me after I acclimate to them... such as my thesis advisor.

As already said last page, there are so, so many ways to be "freeloading" in today's world. A nuanced, comprehensive look at it in a 22 minute cartoon, no matter how good said cartoon is, was never going to happen. The simple solution here does "ignore" situations like mine, but with the show already treading mature ground here I would have shocked if they went even further down this road. Like, I can barely imagine this in S1 with the way Fluts' character is here.


Episodes like this one (and indeed a lot of S5 and S6) really show how different the show is now to what it was in S1. It'd be amazing if we could take some of the most recent episodes back to 2010 and see what the younger fanbase (and indeed the wider television-savvy audience) made of them.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:56 am

I'm really not able to imagine how an 8-year-old kid is going to sit through this episode or Applejack's Day Off.

I mean, there'll be funny moments and cute stuff to react to, but the nuances of the story are going to be pretty hard to follow.




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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:02 am

Headless Horse wrote:I'm really not able to imagine how an 8-year-old kid is going to sit through this episode or Applejack's Day Off.

I mean, there'll be funny moments and cute stuff to react to, but the nuances of the story are going to be pretty hard to follow.

n'hey


I've been watching Adventure Time S6 lately, and holy crap has that show gotten philosophical. Like, I'm a university-educated 28 year old man, and some of these episodes are leaving me straight-up baffled as to what the meaning was behind the things I've just seen. That being said, the jokes are still funny and the characters are still neat and the stuff I'm seeing is still colourful and energetic. I'm still watching.

I think the same probably applies to pony. There's enough there for the kids to stay entertained, even if they don't quite grasp everything they're seeing.
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Postby Aramek (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:08 am

I can't imagine them even attempting to do this same plot with a lot more real of a problem. Not only would that make for an extremely unfunny episode, what would be the moral? "Things are bad, and then they don't get better"?
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Postby Minty (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:22 am

"Things didn't work even though I tried hard" is a kind of rare lesson, which I've only really seen in things that are a little more mature than this pony show. :pinkieshrug:

That being said, the idea behind this episode is a little tired at this point. Of course, I am one of those people who fail a hell of a lot. :spoiler: But I do try.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:28 am

Kids will understand that Fluttershy is trying to help her brother, and might even realize that parents not giving everything to you is for their own good.

They might not get the nuances of what Zephyr represents, but there is a basic moral that kids can understand.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:59 am

I finally got to see this. Yeah, Zephyr Breeze was being a jerk, but I still sympathized with him. My take on him was that he was putting on the too-cool-for-school persona in order to hide his worrying from others, especially since that's what seemed to get his parents off his back. Seeing him makes me wonder, if my parents had been total pushovers like his are, could I have ended up like that? Did I end up being as nice as I am because that's what got my parents off my back in times of stress? Should I think about this and take it to the Cottage later on?

Really though, I'm glad to see the show doing an episode like this. When I was 10-12 years old then I really could've used some more reminders (from sources that weren't my parents, since they mostly only gave me that sort of advice while in the process of or just after being angry at me) that I mustn't give up at the very first chance of failure at something. I know that the show obviously couldn't present a recovery from that sort of awful way of thinking on any sort of realistic timeframe, seeing as it is just 22 minutes long, but I think this episode did the absolute best it could within that constraint. If this helps even one kid to avoid getting locked into that sort of anxiety and then having to fight back out of it well into adulthood, then I'll be very glad indeed.
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Postby Discord (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:10 am

So I have a deadbeat half brother that is not unlike Zephyr, in a broad sense. More malicious, but I suppose the biggest difference in trajectory was he hit the rock bottom, kept on going the way he was and didn't care enough about avoiding rock bottom to apply himself.

I was expecting to hate this episode as a result, but I actually got a surprising amount of enjoyment to it. Perhaps my perspective is tilted, but I thought the episode played things well - with nobody taking Zephyr's shit, so as to prevent the whole situation from getting grating.

Fluttershy really shines here. I don't think we've ever seen an episode where she actually gets to be assertive start to finish. I really enjoyed that side to her after all these years of development and I hope it continues, to some extent at least.

Rainbow too was pretty sweet in a supporting role and had a lot of funny bits.

I can see the point about the kind of rushed ending, but I thought it was relatively reasonable. Hitting the bottom can make people desperate and be a bit of a wake-up call, depending. Time skips help the rest as best could be managed. And the song was nice with a good message, though perhaps not universally applicable to the scenario.

On that note, I can see concern about the message as valid too. I don't think the episode is trying to be universalistic; Zephyr is one person and one kind of scenario, but there are many reasons why people stay with their parents and/or struggle to get work for other reasons.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:14 am

This episode felt to me like it was the first time where Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash actually felt like they were friends. Like, so many other episodes featuring them together (MTBPW, Hurricane Fluttershy, Trade Ya! all come to mind) always felt to me like one of them was mostly just dragging the other one around instead of them actually seeming like they were equals. You know what I mean?

On another note, Fluttershy's mother apparently being good at gardening is interesting since, like Fluttershy and her way with animals, that's a gift you'd expect earth ponies to have in general. Maybe that sort of thing ran amongst the female ponies in their family?
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:53 am

I really enjoyed Rarity and Pinkie in this, BTW. Their cameos were both on-point and in-character, little high-concentration doses of both of them. :allears:
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Postby Ransom (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:02 pm

No real thoughts except I've never liked ponies having facial hair. It just really bugs me and it's all over the show.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:16 pm

At least Zephyr Breeze's five o' clock shadow made more sense than other ponies we've seen with facial hair like that. Compare to these two from Feeling Pinkie Keen and PYHD:
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It doesn't look so bad at first, but then you realize that their facial hair is covering their noses. :gonkity:
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:36 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:This episode felt to me like it was the first time where Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash actually felt like they were friends. Like, so many other episodes featuring them together (MTBPW, Hurricane Fluttershy, Trade Ya! all come to mind) always felt to me like one of them was mostly just dragging the other one around instead of them actually seeming like they were equals. You know what I mean?


Totally. I never once questioned the two of them hanging out, and I think that's a testament to the writing. It felt natural right from the outset.

Headless Horse wrote:I really enjoyed Rarity and Pinkie in this, BTW. Their cameos were both on-point and in-character, little high-concentration doses of both of them. :allears:


Rainbow Dash! Fluttershy! :-)

It's me, Pinkie Pie! :party:

YOUR FRIEND! :rant:

*Sad violins* :deflated:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:43 pm

The song should have just been this:

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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:02 pm

Image
This. This pony is not satisfied. At all. Rarity really has been killing it this season with the faces.

All in all a pretty good wing horse episode. Greatest of all was to see the parents, but Zephyr was certainly the right amount of incredibly annoying, and I could live with his redemption over the course of an episode.

Only missing part is the tsundere RD, who just will not come clean and confess her true feelings.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:57 pm

Agree with the interpretation that Zephyr's slacker 'tude is just a cover for his insecurities. In a way he's even shyer than Fluttershy. He's afraid to put himself out there.

Look at his excuse for coming home in the first place: the hair salon couldn't handle his radical ideas! But when he's working on the hairdressing dummy he's not like "dude I can make these lame hairstyles for squares in my sleep, I just don't want to." Instead he's genuinely astonished that he made it look like the one in the picture.

He's terrified of failure and uses his "lalala I can't hear you" misunderstood artist persona as a preemptive shield against failure's consequences.

His parents enable it. Fluttershy sees right through it.
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:02 pm

Niels Olof wrote:
Only missing part is the tsundere RD, who just will not come clean and confess her true feelings.


Image *horse noise*
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Baby there ain't nobody better
So u should - never, ever go by the letter
U're so cool - Everything u do is success
Make the rules
Then break them all cuz u are the best


(Or just be making the best of this sloppy dog's breakfast of a situation. Damn Pinkie.)
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:06 pm

Scuderia Ferrarity wrote:
Image *horse noise*
Image


:gotcha: Indignant horse noise*
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:07 pm

I'm not the first person to point it out in this thread, but this episode provides a nice lens for retroactively viewing the relationship between Fluttershy and Discord.

Fluttershy likes Discord and believes he's capable of good things, but she has zero patience for his excuses, his empty promises, and his obvious attempts at emotional manipulation.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:10 pm

Discord also hangs around her house, rearranges her stuff, and refuses to get a job.

:fluttershrug: "same as it ever was."

e: and screws with Angel.
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Postby Strangepony (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:06 pm

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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:09 pm

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Postby Octavia (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:31 pm

Niels Olof wrote:Only missing part is the tsundere RD, who just will not come clean and confess her true feelings.

To Fluttershy :3: :allears:
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Postby Adelor Lyon (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:17 pm


God dammit this is so accurate. Love the engraving on the vaper; is that wingbutt? :lol:
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Postby Chaos Sonic (?) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:13 am

The Doctor wrote:I wouldn't say Fluttershy is a vet so much as an animal therapist.

But even without that, she's basically an animal sanctuary/park ranger for the Ponyville area.

Don't forget she's the pet shop too!
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:34 pm


Oh man, I missed this. :lol: I'm actually fairly surprised it took the show this long to make this gag.
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:51 pm





:butwhy: What the hell?! You can't just rip clouds in here! You're gonna collect all those stinky vape clouds you've been spewing and push them out the window, or mom and dad are going to have a fit!

:saddash: I stood on a vape cloud once. It was gross.


Octavia wrote:Did no one in their family actually attend his graduation? :cry:


:nnngh: It was just a six week certificate course at the Cloudsdale Cosmetology school - but he turned up on the last day with a gown and mortar board ...
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Baby there ain't nobody better
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Then break them all cuz u are the best


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Postby Applepie (?) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:42 pm

I hope S6 will bring more Zephyr.
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Postby ToastGhost (?) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:56 pm

  • Initial thoughts: this horse is garbage
  • Loving Fluttershy's parents though, and the fact they invited Rainbow over too. And the cloud collection. All cute as heck. :3:
  • Rainbow Dash still delivering the percentage jokes after five years and still doing it right. :v:
  • Rainbow's excuse for leaving and then unintentional stare into the camera is excellent. You can tell she's not trying and doesn't care, excellent characterization.
  • Image Mods please make this a smiley even though :eyebrow: already exists.
  • STOP LEAVING ZEPHYR ALONE HE CAN'T- oh good you're sticking him with Spike... why do I feel this isn't going to end well?
  • I repeat, stop leaving Zephyr alone. :-/
  • 2/3rds in thoughts: this flirty horse is still garbage.
  • The confrontation/moral is excellent: failing is the worst, but not trying doesn't feel any better. Primo stuff, keep teaching good things, pony.
  • I'm usually not one for random songs, and while the male part isn't that great the instrumental work and other pony parts make it decent.
  • Damnit even this pony is graduating before me. :rainbert:
  • Final thoughts: not that garbage, pretty good episode. Lots of nice little jokes and touches.

I bet this episode can resonate with a lot of people, and for that I give it credit. It took a while to get to the ultimate lesson, but it was handled with finesse throughout. Some good pony, probably around a B in my book. B as in brother or Breeze.
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