S04E12: Pinkie Pride

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Re: S04E12: Pinkie Pride

Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:06 am

We need all those smilies urgently, but I think the Pinkie Party Hat one should be implemented the most.
:plonk: Image :)
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Postby Gnot Syndrome (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:16 am

Dammit, there's just so much going on in every minute of this episode. I've watched it 3 times through and I've got a way to go before I catch it all. It's too much! :twonk:

e: Only just now caught the 3:10 to Yuma reference.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:18 am

Chaos Sonic wrote:
Nah, I think it's probably Twilight. After all, her parents could afford to hire a princess as a baby sitter even before Twilight was Celestia's private student. She just doesn't spend as wildly as RD does. :v:


I have no doubt that Princess Twilight Sparkle comes from a distinguished family—one child the personal protegé of the ruling Princess, and the other captain of the Royal Guard? I've always thought that her family belonged to the nobility (or the Equestrian equivalent, insert obvious Roman Republic jokes here)—it seems unlikely (also given Princess Cadenza mi Amore's personality) that mere lucre is enough to get you a princess (in-training, but still) as a baby sitter. Connections and respectability at court, on the other hoof...

Now, noble birth alone is no guarantee for wealth, not now, and not back in the day, either. What is clear is that Princess Twilight Sparkle is not throwing her money, if any, around. Her only extravagant gesture seems to be her balloon (and that could standard government issue, for all we know. Perhaps she's on a generous stipend). This could be consistent with old money, or just a comfortable, but not excessive, amount of available funds.

Rainbow Dash on the other hand, I would think is no more than one generation removed from more ordinary circumstances. Her insecurities, her drive to prove herself reeks of somepony, who wishes to demonstrate that she is not just another spoiled rich kid. She wants to accomplish things on her own, but as money is not a concern, she chooses to pursue that in sports, rather than a profession. Compare to Rarity, who also wishes to rise to the top, but has to do so while making a living in the process. Rainbow Dash in contrast can afford to concentrate on coolness, awesomeness, and radicalness, and occasionally scoffs at those, who for some unfathomable reason has other concerns. Her life with the rest of the Mane Six has taught her a modicum of empathy (for there was precious little of that in S1 Rainbow Dash), but she seems to have, from time to time, that peculiar obliviousness that privilege can bring.
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Postby Venusy (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:35 am

Yeah, I think the fact that most people like this one - along with the leak - have meant this thread hasn't been as long as it usually is. I posted my impressions in the leak thread, so go over there to check them out. :-P

From the brief excerpt of Smile, I do want a Weird Al medley of other pony songs. :-D
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Postby Perrydotto (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:46 am

Venusy wrote:From the brief excerpt of Smile, I do want a Weird Al medley of other pony songs. :-D


This guy knows what's up. :ponydrugs:
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Postby Thaddeus (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:27 pm

Holy shit, Slate, you are an avatar God. We need all of those. ALL OF THEM. :twonk:
Image :excellent:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:30 pm

I can't see the leak thread because I've blocked the spoiler subforum but I can't begin to imagine how the responses were... :allears:
:plonk: Image :)
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:10 pm

Venusy wrote:Yeah, I think the fact that most people like this one - along with the leak - have meant this thread hasn't been as long as it usually is. I posted my impressions in the leak thread, so go over there to check them out. :-P

That, or all the Semper Pies died and went to Heaven while the rest of us are currently recovering from a diabetic coma. But your explanation is a bit more likely!
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:38 pm

I can confirm, I am now in Heaven and it is a delight. Hey, look, there's Elvis and Freddy Mercury and they're recording an album! Ah man, I can't wait to get it for free! :v:
:plonk: Image :)
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:49 pm

Wayoshi wrote:I dunno, I kinda saw it as "hey, we pretty much just said the moral 2 minutes ago, and we have no time, so let's skip over the obvious this time." :pinkieshrug: You're right it presumes viewers are keyed in with the prior two key eps, which is great. But I don't know about the lesson being unimportant, I think it was a time constraint move. :pinkieshrug:


Yeah, I was about to go back and edit it to say "the lesson itself is so unimportant or obvious that they don't bother telling us what it is", but then it would have one of those "Headless Horse was an indecisive trigger-happy so-and-so who likes to confuse people who have already read this post on Sat Feb 02, 2014 7:32 pm" things on it. :v:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:56 pm



I like these ones most.
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Postby Durandal (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:50 pm

Headless Horse wrote:
Yeah, I was about to go back and edit it to say "the lesson itself is so unimportant or obvious that they don't bother telling us what it is", but then it would have one of those "Headless Horse was an indecisive trigger-happy so-and-so who likes to confuse people who have already read this post on Sat Feb 02, 2014 7:32 pm" things on it. :v:


In that case you won't mind if I quote you from like 2 years ago:

Headless Horse in the Friend In Deed discussion thread wrote:Stuff like this just makes me want to build a Jayson Thiessen shrine in the woods out back and god I don't even know.

How's that coming along, by the way? :gotcha:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:04 pm

Considering the last song in the episode was inspired by Raise Your Glass, can we say this ep wins the award for most modern reference!? :-P
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Postby Brunellus (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:23 pm

Is the implication that Cheese Sandwich is an evil enchanter? :smirk:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:53 pm

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Postby Tears (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:54 pm

Re-posting some thoughts from the leak thread. Basically I was dreading this episode, and boy did Amy Keating Rogers make me look like a dick because it was amazing :awesomedash:

Ho. ly. fuck :starity:

Best Pinkie episode since Party of One? Best Pinkie episode since party of one :-D :-D :-D

I was pretty much dreading this episode and I was so wrong. I was so wrong you guys. AHHHHHHHHHH :ponydrugs:


Also, less gushingly:

I'd convinced myself that there wouldn't be any room for pathos in the episode what with the musical aspect and the guest spot, but some of the sad Pinkie stuff was really wrenching, which they managed to achieve without it feeling cheap or manipulative, and the goofiness was really fun as well. It was such a perfect balance that I didn't dare hope it would turn out as well as it did. Pinkie had a genuine identity crisis.


More thoughts after I've watched it again. And again. And I guess I'll have to go to work at some point but for now it's all :shenanigans:

And the next episode sounds amazing and the episode after sounds amazing and the episode after tha :ponydrugs:
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Postby Rainbow Brite (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:10 pm

Holy shit, this episode blew me the fuck away. Everything about it was pure perfection and I can't stop gushing. One aspect that I don't think got enough love was Diamond Tiara singing. She has a hell of a voice.

SlateSlabrock wrote:I was wondering who did the Lumiere-esque vendor pony, since I didn't see him in the credits. Turns out he's in the singers' section because of the couple of lines the Cakes got.

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...the Prince of Saiyans lives in Ponyville? :v:
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:20 pm

Rainbow Brite wrote:...the Prince of Saiyans lives in Ponyville? :v:

And his daughter plays Babs.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:33 pm

PictishBeast wrote:The rest of the numbers never really hit. "Pinkie's Lament" and "Cheese Confesses" raised zero feels, and songs like that are usually a sure bet when it comes to emotional punches. (Though admittedly "Find My Way" did a crappy job in this role too.)

This episode was light and funny and cute, but it was never sad. That would have made it feel like an episode that mattered.

Counterpoint time.

These lyrics really hit me hard:

For all my life, all I've wanted to do
Was make my friends want to smile true
But maybe I was wrong
And Pinkie Pie shouldn't plan parties at all
...
There's gotta be more to me than planning a party or two

I put away my party cannon, I deflated all my balloons
The bubbles all burst, now what is next for you?
For you...

This shows a girl who, when seeing how the rest of the town was swept away so easily, questions whether partying as a career is even worth it. This one of the saddest things on the show in a long time. Forget the sad song in MMC, all of Pinkie's previous character developments build this up perfectly.

I made them laugh, had such a blast
A smile that's all their own
They loved seeing me, the real Pinkie
Show them the time of their life like they've never known
Like they've never known

Then she touches on the fact that it is all worth it because it's about how others enjoy the party, not just doing the party. This comes full circle when the goof-off goes too crazy and R.D. is not enjoying herself.

Pinkie's Lament is one of the most emotional and best songs in a looooooong time. There's also the fact that Pinkie was initially hiding everything, which as Isaak detailed is extremely relatable and harkens back to Party of One.

Cheese Confesses may have some "you know what's coming once he's at P-ville", but once the song started getting into full gear I really enjoyed the lyrics and music. It's still very :3: that a Mane 6 pony inspired their element (roughly) in their youth, that was a nice changeup for a key episode.

Also re: technical rhyming things with Pinkie - you seem to point that to properly rhyme or whatever, there's only a few words that really work. I think restricting themselves over something that not many people will notice (I'm sorry you do) would not be a good move. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:35 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:And his daughter plays Babs.



I miss Babs. :fluttersmith:

I hope we see her again in season 5! :flutterunsmith:

Or the comic A Babs/Bloom friends forever issue would be nice!

*knock on wood*

Edit: Wayoshi agreed. Also the part of the song where she mentions her friends having a smile that's all their own makes me tear up abit for some reason. Pinkie is just such a pure hearted character. I love it!
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:50 pm

Rainbow Brite wrote:Holy shit, this episode blew me the fuck away. Everything about it was pure perfection and I can't stop gushing. One aspect that I don't think got enough love was Diamond Tiara singing. She has a hell of a voice.

...the Prince of Saiyans lives in Ponyville? :v:


It's Claire Corlett's father that played Goku. Small world.
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Finally saw the episode.


:deflated: :"D ... does this mean I'm going to have to open a lock with a rubber chicken?"
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:57 pm

Durandal wrote:How's that coming along, by the way? :gotcha:


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:vogue:

Very nicely, thank you.


Srsly though, I don't know if it's possible to be happier to learn that Jayson Thiessen is so far from getting burned out on this show that he's working overtime in his basement to top the felt scene. To say nothing of coming up with his own crazy indulgent story ideas that he has to force through the pipeline on the strength of his political capital and ends up making into one of the best things the show has ever done. :awesomedash:
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:11 pm

Wayoshi wrote: For all my life, all I've wanted to do
Was make my friends want to smile true
But maybe I was wrong
And Pinkie Pie shouldn't plan parties at all
...
There's gotta be more to me than planning a party or two

I put away my party cannon, I deflated all my balloons
The bubbles all burst, now what is next for you?
For you...

I made them laugh, had such a blast
A smile that's all their own
They loved seeing me, the real Pinkie
Show them the time of their life like they've never known
Like they've never known


Arrgh, seeing this written out drives me even battier. What's the rhyme scheme they're going for here? "Wrong" paired with "all"? "Laugh" paired with "blast"? "Smile true" -- does that sound natural? The wrong emphasis on "Pinkie" again. "The time of their life like they've never known" is two ideas redundantly welded together, pick one and write around it.

I know I'm getting way too Comic Book Guy but I can't get into the feels when the lyrics are so slapdash. The show has never done a great job with the technical side of lyrics and when fans praise the songs as Broadway or Disney quality I want to jump down a well. :grumpydash:
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Postby Discord (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:21 pm

I can admit isn't particularly lyrically strong. But lyrics aren't the only aspect that makes a musical number good, and other people place different values on them. :pinkieshrug:

A musical number's job is to do any number of the following:

1. Entertain
2. Convey Emotion
3. Develop the narrative and/or plot and/or character(s)

Usually in a condensed and interesting way. Lyrics aren't really an objective, so much as they are a tool for accomplishing one of those things- much like dialogue.

Now, lyrical strength certainly does help toward those objectives, but they're far from the be-all and end-all, and even fairly simplistic lyrics can do a job better than complicated ones.

Pinkie's Lament works well for me because it meets those objectives- not necessarily through lyrics (which work just enough to convey the meaning), but because of the mixture of visuals, music, singing, story idea, and prior engagement to the character. The part where Pinkie just looks back at all her parties, even though she isn't singing and that isn't lyrics, is brilliant. And the swells in the music are wonderful to me toward conveying the emotion here.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:43 pm

I do want to say "Glass of Water" last week really did feel like it was playing in the big leagues, lyrically. First and only time for this show, and it felt like it was getting there only because they pulled out every last one of their stops.

This time it's AKR-level lyrics, very much on par with, say, "At the Gala". And boy howdy do I love that song, but at the same time it drives me every bit as crazy with its awkward rhythm and meter as it does Pictish.

It's just the flavor of the pill we swallow with this show.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:00 pm

PictishBeast wrote:Arrgh, seeing this written out drives me even battier. What's the rhyme scheme they're going for here? "Wrong" paired with "all"? "Laugh" paired with "blast"? "Smile true" -- does that sound natural? The wrong emphasis on "Pinkie" again. "The time of their life like they've never known" is two ideas redundantly welded together, pick one and write around it.

My opinions:

-Why does the rhyme scheme have to be perfect? Laugh, blas kinda rhymes I guess :v: A song can just be some semi-talking in bits, too.
-When they swap around the usual ordering of a sentence / fudge a word to get a rhyme right, sometimes it's really cute / interesting.
-I'm still trying to wrap my ahead around this Pink-IE vs. PINK-ie thing... sounds exactly the same in my head. :pinkietoot:
-When emphasizing the most uplifting part of the song at the most critical time, I think basically repeating the same concept was fine. It never even occurred to me that there's any redundancy here.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:11 pm

I don't get the Pinkie pronunciation arguments. It's always been Pink-Ee to me.
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Postby Discord (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:15 pm

No, the syllable stress on the word is definitely on the "Pink". I think confusion might come because sometimes the "e" gets rolled off the tongue, but it really comes out when you say her full name "Pinkie Pie". And it is true that unmatched syllable stresses can hurt rhyme schemes.

:twonk: LANGUAGE

:twonk: LANGUAGE FOR MOONDANCER
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:18 pm

I don't really mind if they mess with the pronuntiation a little for the sake of a rhyme :pinkieshrug:

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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:29 pm

Discord wrote:A musical number's job is to do any number of the following:

1. Entertain
2. Convey Emotion
3. Develop the narrative and/or plot and/or character(s)


Agreed, and I know you know where I'm coming from because I know you know Broadway. And I'll admit I've looked the other way in the past -- "True True Friend" is lyrically weak but it's great at piling on the emotions.

But when the emotions don't hit (and they didn't for me with Pinkie's Lament though I recognize I'm in the minority), the lyrics seem so much more obvious and calculated, and I find myself wondering why they couldn't have put them through a second pass.

For everyone else who is like "what the fuck are you on about," imagine an episode where Twilight was writing a letter and we could see the words and it read "Dear Princess Celestia: For all intensive purposes, you're teaching's will effect us for years to come." :twonk:
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Postby BackgroundPony (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:40 pm

PictishBeast wrote:Agreed, and I know you know where I'm coming from because I know you know Broadway. And I'll admit I've looked the other way in the past -- "True True Friend" is lyrically weak but it's great at piling on the emotions.


Totally agreed here. I love that song, but every time Rarity sings "We can try to do what we can now / For together we can be her guide" I just cringe. We can try to do what we can now? Yeeeesh! Talk about your meaningless filler lines.

But of course that is picking at one detail, and I'd be lying if I didn't say that song as a whole always makes me sort of emotional. :flutterunsmith:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:46 pm

BackgroundPony wrote:
Totally agreed here. I love that song, but every time Rarity sings "We can try to do what we can now / For together we can be her guide" I just cringe. We can try to do what we can now? Yeeeesh! Talk about your meaningless filler lines.

But of course that is picking at one detail, and I'd be lying if I didn't say that song as a whole always makes me sort of emotional. :flutterunsmith:


I can't hate that line because it comes during that shot of a totally defeated Pinkie being helped by AJ. :allears:
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Postby Wylie (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:58 pm

Headless Horse wrote:I do want to say "Glass of Water" last week really did feel like it was playing in the big leagues, lyrically. First and only time for this show, and it felt like it was getting there only because they pulled out every last one of their stops.

This time it's AKR-level lyrics, very much on par with, say, "At the Gala". And boy howdy do I love that song, but at the same time it drives me every bit as crazy with its awkward rhythm and meter as it does Pictish.

It's just the flavor of the pill we swallow with this show.


Part of it is that the lyrics are coming at Daniel pre-written, and it's apparent from AKR's tweets that she had specific songs in mind when writing them- Belle's song for Pinkie's opener, "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" for Cheese's Ponyville entrance, and "Don't Cry For Me, Argentina" for Pinkie's Lament, to be exact. Daniel can't write those songs, though- he's got to make it fit his music while not sounding exactly like AKR's "inspiration" material.

Broadway teams work together their entire lives to get this stuff right, and even big names like Sondheim can admit that they're still not happy with lyrics they wrote themselves years ago. It turns out to be really damned hard to get lyrics and music just right, and that's sometimes a process that takes years for a single Broadway show. AKR and Daniel are knocking out four or six songs in just one episode, in much less time than that.

I guess I'm saying I don't blame them if sometimes the accent is on the wrong syllable occasionally.

BackgroundPony wrote:Totally agreed here. I love that song, but every time Rarity sings "We can try to do what we can now / For together we can be her guide" I just cringe. We can try to do what we can now? Yeeeesh! Talk about your meaningless filler lines.


I call this "Live and Let Die" syndrome:

"But if this ever-changing world in which we live in

:twonk:
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Postby The Outlander (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:01 pm

I'm surprised everyone isn't just resigned to the fact that Pony has weak lyrics already. I like to think of it as one of the show's quirks. Sometimes it hits, with simple but fun and heartfelt repetitions like in Winter Wrap Up and Smile, and other times the style misses with clunky songs like The Failure Song or Generosity.

Honestly, still better than most cartoon songs. Have you ever heard freaking Strawberry Shortcake?
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:11 pm

I don't think Pony has weak lyrics, but then again im by no means a master of music. :-P

At the very least a heck of a lot more enjoyable to listen to then most of the garbage that plays on the radio today! :v:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:11 pm

Wylie wrote:I call this "Live and Let Die" syndrome:

"But if this ever-changing world in which we live in

:twonk:


Now come the McCartney-heads who will say he actually wrote "in which we're living" or some shit :v:
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:13 pm

SoundMonkey44 wrote:I don't think Pony has weak lyrics, but then again im by no means a master of music. :-P

At the very least a heck of a lot more enjoyable to listen to then most of the garbage that plays on the radio today! :v:

Well in my opinion, the one pony song that has the worst lyrics is "The pony every pony should know" Some of the lyrics are alright, but the overuse of the word pony in that song is ridiculous lol :P (i can see why that song didnt get dubbed in the Japanese dub)
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:17 pm

The Outlander wrote:I'm surprised everyone isn't just resigned to the fact that Pony has weak lyrics already. I like to think of it as one of the show's quirks. Sometimes it hits, with simple but fun and heartfelt repetitions like in Winter Wrap Up and Smile, and other times the style misses with clunky songs like The Failure Song or Generosity.

Honestly, still better than most cartoon songs. Have you ever heard freaking Strawberry Shortcake?


This is the main thing, to me. Yes the songs are on a whole tier below Broadway or even the Disney stuff that people think of as "kids' music" and don't give a second thought. But even so, there's so damn much effort put into every musical number—by which I mean the whole performance, the animation, the singing, the music, the mix, that it's bound to be a great piece of entertainment regardless of whether the lyrics are poetically top-notch or not. Compare it to most traditional TV cartoon songs and you'll find you're holding Pony up against what is usually a lineup of unlistenable screechy villain songs, kids squawking tunelessly, repetitive meaningless nonsense lyrics, and brain-dead stage dancing. Pony songs make a play at being high-stratum animated musical material, and while they know they're not actually there, they have the heart that lets you enjoy them in much the same way despite their obvious shortcomings.


Preview edit: ^^^^ WAAAAT :twonk:

The use of "pony" in "Becoming Popular" is one of the only genuine uses of clever wordplay in the entire show's musical lineup. It's entirely intentional, and it's all there for the mellifluous sound of it all. It's one of my favorite songs purely on the strength of that one feature.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:18 pm

Wylie wrote:I call this "Live and Let Die" syndrome:

"But if this ever-changing world in which we live in


:gotcha: "I fail to see the problem, my student. Learning to write pop/rock lyrics is a valuable lesson to learn."
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:26 pm

Wylie wrote:I call this "Live and Let Die" syndrome:

"But if this ever-changing world in which we live in

:twonk:



:gonkity: Alas, the dress was too pretty for this modern world of ours!

Twilight is really into being a the MC for the Goof-Off
Image
:excite: :"So then.... let's the goofing begin!"

Image
and Rainbow has this puckered big eyed look on her face, as if to say "Ooooohhhhh-kayyyy...."
:v: :"I woke up this morning expecting to have a little shindig with a cake and a few balloons. But now I'm judging this ... thing."

And Pinkie slowly creeps forward.
*BOING* *BOING*
*GLARE*

*BOING* *BOING*
*GLARE*
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