S04E13: Simple Ways

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Re: Let's Re-Watch Week 12: Simple Ways

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:56 am

Marioland1 wrote:I'll be honest: this is an episode I have never watched to completion. I didn't even make it halfway through! As soon as Trenderhoof fell for Applejack instead of Rarity (who was too busy ignoring his actions to notice), I already knew how the whole thing was going to end and closed the tab in annoyance.

Rarity and Applejack have always been opposites. In fact, the only two things they share are a sister and a tendency to work hard (often to the point of overworking themselves and refusing help). Clashes between them are usually interesting because of these conflicting personalities. This more or less left Trenderhoof as the third wheel to the real action between Rarity and Applejack, and considering how big he seemed to be in this episode, I just couldn't bear to watch all three of them act like naive schoolfillies arguing over a schoolyard crush. He's just in the way here.

I'm perfectly fine with the idea of a temporary life-swap between the two, but this is just too much "Nope!" wrapped up in a 22 minute package and sent off. Couldn't they have just done a dare or something to go through with this instead of throwing a romance angle on it? That would have seemed far less artificial than this thing. Even from just the start, everypony seemed out of character. That bugs me something fierce.

Are you really sure about how it all ends? What I found quite refreshing about this is that at no point did Applejack show any interest in Trenderhoof. They weren't "schoolfillies arguing over a schoolyard crush" so much as Applejack trying to snap Rarity out of some incredibly unreasonable behavior. Besides, Rarity swooning over hot guys isn't new, as we saw with her fantasies over Prince Blueblood way back in S1, so I find it hard to say that's out of character for her.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:00 am

Gotta agree with Fizz on this, Both the show & comics have shown Rarity doesn't try to hide her interest in men. And AJ couldn't stand Trend she didn't have any interest in him, she did what she did to show Rarity how ridiculous she was being, the whole moral of the ep is you don't change yourself just to get someone to like you

And of course the secondary moral of Farmers can't stand hipsters. :gotcha:
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:05 am

SoundMonkey44 wrote:@paullo:. AJ's hair wave was indeed great!


For me, the fact that both that shot (and arguably even more so the one with the apple) made it into the show might just be the funniest thing about the episode.

I mean, there's no room for ambiguity here; those shots are playing up the sex appeal of being sweaty (and/or juicy) for laughs. How that ever came to be allowed on a show like MLP is beyond me, and it cracks me up every time. It's by far the most blatantly sexual bit of imagery the show has ever done, yet for some reason it kinda just flies under the radar.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:11 am

PaulloDEC wrote:
For me, the fact that both that shot (and arguably even more so the one with the apple) made it into the show might just be the funniest thing about the episode.

I mean, there's no room for ambiguity here; those shots are playing up the sex appeal of being sweaty (and/or juicy) for laughs. How that ever came to be allowed on a show like MLP is beyond me, and it cracks me up every time. It's by far the most blatantly sexual bit of imagery the show has ever done, yet for some reason it kinda just flies under the radar.


Yeah, its almost Adventure Time levels of "that really made it into a kids show!?" XD

And like Big Mac's arc in the comic, further proves that the Apples are naturally beautiful/desirable ponies. *I wonder how many love letters AJ & Big Mac end up throwing in the trash at the end of each hearts & hooves day?* XD


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:angry: Not if ah can help it.
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:22 am

The Doctor wrote:Trenderhoof was a fun character. I like that they didn't make him a total jerk, he just wasn't into Rarity. He tried to get to know AJ and share her interests. Would have been so easy to go the other way on this, and I am glad they didn't.

He's pretty fantastic when he asks Granny Smith to dance at the end. In some ways Trend's shallow and douchey, but he's capable of genuine class too. He's a step up from Prince Blueblood, that's for sure.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:39 am

Peak Rarity





In my opinion Josh Haber has a perfect track record as a pony writer.

:gonkity: WILL SOMEPONY BRING ME A TOWEL TO WIPE THIS REPULSIVE FILTH FEOM MY HOOVES?!
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:50 am

Mechanical Ape wrote:He's pretty fantastic when he asks Granny Smith to dance at the end. In some ways Trend's shallow and douchey, but he's capable of genuine class too. He's a step up from Prince Blueblood, that's for sure.


Trenderhoof was everything Rarity thought him to be. He just wasn't into her. Blueblood was nothing like Rarity thought.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:50 am

Still don't care for the characterization of the three main characters of this episode at all
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:56 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Are you really sure about how it all ends?

I looked it up after I decided to stop watching, just to verify my assumptions. Turns out I successfully predicted the rest of the episode before I even got 5 minutes in. Having seen the outfits beforehand kind of helped in that regard, but it still shows just how predictable it was regardless.

Fizzbuzz wrote:They weren't "schoolfillies arguing over a schoolyard crush" so much as Applejack trying to snap Rarity out of some incredibly unreasonable behavior.

I'd have to be blind and deaf not to notice Applejack's disinterest, Rarity's overly obsessive infatuation, and Trenderhoof's incapability to see Applejack's disinterest and Rarity's obsessive infatuation. In fact, none of them seemed to notice the key details in the "love triangle" that were so blatant to me and everyone I watched the episode with that none of us really wanted to continue through such a slog of pure dumb. The only people I know that would miss so many details when it comes to love and romance are small children, hence my likening of all three of them to naive schoolyard fillies. They're certainly about as attentive as a child in this episode, so if the tiny horseshoe fits...

Using unreasonable behavior to stop unreasonable behavior isn't a good idea either. Perhaps that's a side lesson for Applejack to share? You know, "two wrongs don't make a right"? It sounds like something Applejack would already know, but meh.

Fizzbuzz wrote:Rarity swooning over hot guys isn't new, as we saw with her fantasies over Prince Blueblood way back in S1, so I find it hard to say that's out of character for her.

Rarity does swoon, it's true, but she still knows how to be a proper lady when conducting herself with a gentlecolt (which she clearly envisioned him to be, at least from the start). To see her stoop so low for a stallion is a bit much, even for a mare of her levels of hysterics and drama, which in turn breaks her character rather horribly. I'd expect this kind of thing from Spike (who is still just a baby dragon), but Rarity? That's pushing the envelope quite a bit.

This is why I side with Wayoshi. It just seems more like a poorly written shipfic than an actual episode to me, and I don't like that fact in the least.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:27 am

Marioland1 wrote:This is why I side with Wayoshi. It just seems more like a poorly written shipfic than an actual episode to me, and I don't like that fact in the absolute least.


I'm no expert, but don't ship fics usually results in some kind of relationship forming? In many ways this episode has nothing to do with romantic relationships; that's what kicks it off, but it's more about the dangers of jealousy and the foolishness of trying to change yourself to impress others than anything else. If you changed Trenderhoof's infatuation with Applejack to an infatuation with rustic country living and Rarity's infatuation with Trenderhoof into good old-fashioned celebrity obsession you could easily have the story play out in exactly the same way.
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Postby Applepie (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:17 pm

One of the best S4 episodes. I hope Trenderhoof returns.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:51 pm

Yeah, this isn't even close to shipficy. It didn't have any Rarijack moments despite the two being on the screen together so often, nor did if have spike try to kill trend so he could have rarity all to himself, or have Trenderhoof be Trixie in disguise. :v:

Seriously, you want shipficy how about the ep where the CMC drug their teacher and Big Mac with love poison on hearts & hooves day. *which don't get me wrong, its a fun ep, but far closer to a "shipfic then this". But really calling any episode involving romance or crushes a shipfic is kind of ignoring the moral of that episode, so yeah...

As for characterization, outside of the purposeful role reversal at the end, there wasn't really any OOC action on any characters part. Honestly though, I don't consider a character doing something I don't like OOC like others may. I like these characters because they aren't one dimensional, I feel people who say a character in the show acts OOC must have a very limited view of what that character can &/or cannot do. Also we know how flamboyant Rarity can be, and how crazy she can get when she sets her mind to something, so I see nothing OOC there.

Applejack just wanted to get her work done and was constantly annoyed by Rarity & Trend, and even though she tried to be nice at first she eventually had to take drastic actions against Rarity. As for Trend, AJ obviously had no interest in him, because at the end she was trying as politely as she could to tell him that there was no way in Tartarus he was gonna move to sweet apple acres and live with her. :gotcha:


The very moral of the episode is to not change just to impress a crush, And how doing so can not only have negative effects on you, but your friends as well.

Overall a very well written episode for two characters that were on fire for the whole season!. IMO anywho.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:53 pm

Marioland1 wrote:Rarity does swoon, it's true, but she still knows how to be a proper lady when conducting herself with a gentlecolt (which she clearly envisioned him to be, at least from the start). To see her stoop so low for a stallion is a bit much, even for a mare of her levels of hysterics and drama, which in turn breaks her character rather horribly. I'd expect this kind of thing from Spike (who is still just a baby dragon), but Rarity? That's pushing the envelope quite a bit.

Had it been any of the other five then I would agree (and in fact that's why Twilight falling for Brad in EqG made me upset), but considering how excitable Rarity can get when it comes to matters of love and beauty, I just feel like it's natural for her. And like PaulloDEC said, there really wasn't much romance in this episode beyond Rarity's infatuation over Trenderhoof kicking all this off. If she were in a relationship with someone then I would expect her to quickly move past that gibbering-wreck obsessive stage.

And to address your point about Spike, I'll say again that I don't really think major romantic relationships involving any of the adult characters would be a good thing for this show. It's still a kid's show, after all, so you'd either have to have them acting like a child (which I think is okay for Rarity at an early stage like this, but would wear out fast) or have them move forward and thus lose relatability with the target audience. A big love story that involves Spike, the CMC, or other kids would be okay, and stuff that's largely in the background (Big Mac and Cheerilee, for example) is fine too, but I just don't think the Mane Six should be dragged into it.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:38 pm

I don't follow the criticism of this episode as a romance or a love triangle. Rarity crushes on Trenderhoof which is in character for her (see Blueblood, and Fancy Pants a bit). Trenderhoof crushes on Rarity which is in character for him because he's new. And Applejack doesn't crush on anyone which is in character for her.

Sure things are exaggerated for the sake of comedy, but I think it's funny stuff and Rarity has always been more likely than most people to create insane drama around herself.

It gets even more interesting at the end when they're not even arguing about Trenderhoof any more. Rarity and AJ are just straight-up fighting, using the cover of "oh I was just playing a part" to get super personal with the insults. Horses be pissed off and I love it.

:flirt: You sound like this: "ooh! ooh! ooh!"
:heehaw: Oh yeah, well YOU sound like THIS: "duuuh duuuh duuuh"

Or as Mechanical Ape put it:

Mechanical Ape wrote:I think that Trend aside, there's a lot of everyday AJ/Rarity friction that's just bursting out and getting vented in these scenes. Those two probably need a excuse to go bananas at each other every season or two. It's healthy.
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:41 pm

Marioland1 wrote:I looked it up after I decided to stop watching, just to verify my assumptions. Turns out I successfully predicted the rest of the episode before I even got 5 minutes in. Having seen the outfits beforehand kind of helped in that regard, but it still shows just how predictable it was regardless.


Not certain there's been a single episode I haven't been able to do this with. This is a kid's show, after all, I'm not exactly expecting The West Wing levels of twists and turns here.

Oh, no, wait, there was one. Keep Calm and Flutter On. Goddamn I hate that episode, though, for not going the way I thought it was going to (short version: the lesson should have been "you should not be held to a promise that is neither made nor kept in good faith" instead of our actual lesson of "if you're in an abusive relationship, just tough it out and things will turn out for the best")

small children


Say...8- to 12-year-old girls, perhaps? I.e., the target audience?

Besides, the Mane-6 have never really been displayed as fully emotionally mature adults. Sure, I mean, within the context of the show, all of them clearly are, but the problems they get into in slice-of-life episodes tend to be fairly typical of the kinds of problems that kids get into.

Rarity does swoon, it's true, but she still knows how to be a proper lady when conducting herself with a gentlecolt (which she clearly envisioned him to be, at least from the start). To see her stoop so low for a stallion is a bit much, even for a mare of her levels of hysterics and drama, which in turn breaks her character rather horribly. I'd expect this kind of thing from Spike (who is still just a baby dragon), but Rarity? That's pushing the envelope quite a bit.


Eh, I disagree. More to the point, prior to Twilight in Equestria Girls, Rarity is the only one of the Mane-6 who's ever shown any interest in any kind of romance. It's entirely possible that over at DHX headquarters they've got her up on a chalkboard with the words "designated romance character" written nearby.

I'd also maintain that it's still in character anyway. She was willing to stoop pretty low to put up with Blueblood, after all. Sure, she probably should have learned her lesson, but the difference here is that Trenderhoof was a genuinely nice guy...in a 1950s "you're a credit to your race" kind of way at times, but at least he was trying.

Yes, it would have been nice to establish Trenderhoof earlier in the season so that crush doesn't come out of left field. But it's hardly the worst sin the show has ever committed. Keep Calm and Flutter On is the worst sin the show has ever committed. Or Spike at Your Service.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:51 pm

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:Not certain there's been a single episode I haven't been able to do this with. This is a kid's show, after all, I'm not exactly expecting The West Wing levels of twists and turns here.

*Snipped*


Great post, I'd agree with all of this. I'm still laughing at that line about Trenderhoof having "...such respect for the work ethic of Earth ponies!" There's no way the writer didn't know exactly what they were doing with that line.

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:Keep Calm and Flutter On is the worst sin the show has ever committed. Or Spike at Your Service.


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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:02 pm

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:Keep Calm and Flutter On is the worst sin the show has ever committed. Or Spike at Your Service.


I love Spike at Your Service. :allears:

But I'll save it for the randomizer.
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Postby Discord (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:45 pm

Middling episode for me, but it's solid enough. Rarity has her moments, Applejack is awesome, and even though I found the whole romantic swooning kind of cringe worthy, the showdown between Rarity and Applejack + the moral are some of my favourites in the show and save the episode for me.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:49 pm

Yeah, it's the payoff that makes the episode for me. Just such a build up and the way it goes is so perfect.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:39 pm

Rarity going ga-ga over any hot guys she meet is hilarious. Needs to happen more often :v:
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:41 pm

PaulloDEC wrote:I'm still laughing at that line about Trenderhoof having "...such respect for the work ethic of Earth ponies!" There's no way the writer didn't know exactly what they were doing with that line.


Again, it's worth noting that Trenderhoof pretty clearly meant it as a genuine compliment and simply didn't conceive how it could be perceived as insulting. If explained to him he'd probably even apologize for it, but then we're not watching that kind of show.

Having said that, it's always annoyed me how earth ponies are always the go-to stand-in for the oppressed masses in the fandom, and unicorns the go-to stand-in for Das Nazis. Just once I'd like to read a story that involves Earth Pony Ghenghis Khan, or something, making troubles and being evil and so forth and so on, rather than it always being a unicorn.

And frankly of the three I'd expect pegasi to be the most casually, accidentally tribalist, if for no other reason then the fact that a pegasus living in a cloud city could theoretically go their entire lives without ever actually meeting a unicorn or earth pony.
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:09 pm

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:I'm not exactly expecting The West Wing levels of twists and turns here.

You shouldn't. That's a ludicrous expectation. The only episode to ever do anything close to that kind of nonsense was The Return of Harmony (I'm pretty sure nobody saw Discord's tricks coming up before he did them) and Keep Calm and Flutter On (to a lesser degree). Yes, I could probably figure out the result of every episode 5 minutes in, but usually I don't want to do so. By that point I'm usually too engrossed in the story, so going off on that tangent is just a big mental spoiler I don't want to see. This episode is the only one that I've cared so little about to the point of spoiling myself in this way, because it was just flat out too linear with it all. It's almost robotic, if robots could love.

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:Say...8- to 12-year-old girls, perhaps? I.e., the target audience?
It's an argument, but even for a children's show they're usually more mature than this. No, they're not usually full blown adult levels of mature (with the usual exception of Applejack), but they're not usually this immature without being completely insane a la Party of One or Lesson Zero or under a spell like the Want It Need It spell or the Love Poison. This behavior could be for the target audience, but that doesn't mean I'm going to like it. Is it a workable excuse? Yeah, it is. It's just not my cup of tea.

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:It's hardly the worst sin the show has ever committed. Keep Calm and Flutter On is the worst sin the show has ever committed. Or Spike at Your Service.

Keep Calm and Flutter On has never bothered me. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, enjoying Discord's comedic antics too much to care much about the plot. Spike at your Service is something were in agreement with, on the other hand. It's not the worst episode, but it's not a good one either. The 3-D Timberwolves looked nice, but that's about all it had for me.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:11 pm

I was and still am torn on this episode. I love the first ten minutes or so of it (especially the scene at the train station which is pure gold), and I am awed by Tabitha’s performance throughout (and Applejewel is admittedly gorgeous). But the last 12 minutes of the episode are not at all enjoyable or funny to me, as I described in the RT at the time. Ultimately, it is a profoundly disappointing and unsatisfactory episode.

I have no issue with Rarity going bonkers over some stallion (or just going crazy in general—she is a very passionate person), but the way it was handled in the episode was well below par. Of all the ponies, Rarity has, throughout her life, crafted herself inside and out. Her parents are certainly nothing like her, and at some point the young Rarity must have decided to become something else. Ponyville seems not like an environment especially conductive to mastering high culture and polite society, yet somehow she managed to do just that (well enough to completely dominate the Canterlot scene, once she had gotten a hoof in). Her identity as the lady Rarity is her finest creation, completely central to her self-understanding, and that she would be willing to throw that away as easily as shown in this episode is beyond ludicrous. I enjoyed Castle Mane-ia, but this was a cheap hack job. It is not like a bad shipfic, it’s just like a bad, lazy fanfic.

Until this episode, Rarity episodes were without exception (IMO, of course, but I am in this completely unbiased :liarjack: ) among the very best the show has done. After this, a Roughneck can have something to point to as a bad Rarity episode, which is something, I suppose, when commiserating with fans of other characters over other, regrettable episodes. I have friends who will complain about how dear Pinkie Pie is mishandled from time to time, and this episode feels much the same for me. A good thing we had episodes like Rarity Takes Manehattan, Filli Vanilli, or For Whom the Sweetie Belle Tolls in this season to demonstrate, how Rarity should be written.

I daresay I hope that we’ll see other comedic or dramatic partners for Rarity in the future than Applejack. They work well enough together, but this particular seam is close to exhausted. E.g., the quietly snarky Fluttershy deserves more limelight.
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Postby Stargazer (?) » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:08 am

Niels Olof wrote:I was and still am torn on this episode. I love the first ten minutes or so of it (especially the scene at the train station which is pure gold), and I am awed by Tabitha’s performance throughout (and Applejewel is admittedly gorgeous). But the last 12 minutes of the episode are not at all enjoyable or funny to me, as I described in the RT at the time. Ultimately, it is a profoundly disappointing and unsatisfactory episode.

I have no issue with Rarity going bonkers over some stallion (or just going crazy in general—she is a very passionate person), but the way it was handled in the episode was well below par. Of all the ponies, Rarity has, throughout her life, crafted herself inside and out. Her parents are certainly nothing like her, and at some point the young Rarity must have decided to become something else. Ponyville seems not like an environment especially conductive to mastering high culture and polite society, yet somehow she managed to do just that (well enough to completely dominate the Canterlot scene, once she had gotten a hoof in). Her identity as the lady Rarity is her finest creation, completely central to her self-understanding, and that she would be willing to throw that away as easily as shown in this episode is beyond ludicrous. I enjoyed Castle Mane-ia, but this was a cheap hack job. It is not like a bad shipfic, it’s just like a bad, lazy fanfic.

Until this episode, Rarity episodes were without exception (IMO, of course, but I am in this completely unbiased :liarjack: ) among the very best the show has done. After this, a Roughneck can have something to point to as a bad Rarity episode, which is something, I suppose, when commiserating with fans of other characters over other, regrettable episodes. I have friends who will complain about how dear Pinkie Pie is mishandled from time to time, and this episode feels much the same for me. A good thing we had episodes like Rarity Takes Manehattan, Filli Vanilli, or For Whom the Sweetie Belle Tolls in this season to demonstrate, how Rarity should be written.

I daresay I hope that we’ll see other comedic or dramatic partners for Rarity in the future than Applejack. They work well enough together, but this particular seam is close to exhausted. E.g., the quietly snarky Fluttershy deserves more limelight.

Great points, you illustrated another reason that I failed to articulate on why I feel the two mane characters in this ep were OOC.

Ooh, I would love another fantastic Rarity-Fluttershy moment akin to the one in "Suited for Success" where the girls all demand different dress designs. Rarity is making Fluttershy's and she wants to know her opinion, FS refuses, Rarity pushes, and finally 'Shy spits out all its flaws in hyper-fashion terminology... it's one of my favorite scenes from any show, ever. Some more examples of their friendship/flaws would be nice, they work well together as characters.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:21 am

I didn't like this so much but the voice acting really sold it. The whole train station scene and the fight at the end are just gold :-P
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:31 am

Niels Olof wrote:Of all the ponies, Rarity has, throughout her life, crafted herself inside and out. Her parents are certainly nothing like her, and at some point the young Rarity must have decided to become something else. Ponyville seems not like an environment especially conductive to mastering high culture and polite society, yet somehow she managed to do just that (well enough to completely dominate the Canterlot scene, once she had gotten a hoof in). Her identity as the lady Rarity is her finest creation, completely central to her self-understanding, and that she would be willing to throw that away as easily as shown in this episode is beyond ludicrous.


I agree with you on Rarity's persona--the fact that she's a self-made mare is one of the best things about her. But she never throws that away in this episode. Even when she's trying to change things up--to be more like the person she thinks Trenderhoof wants her to be--she still does everything through a Rarity filter:



And at the end when she goes dirt-country? That's not about adopting a new image at all. It's about sticking it to Applejack, because Rarity is fed up with losing a competition that she should be a shoo-in for to someone who isn't even playing.
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:26 am

Niels Olof pretty much said a lot about I wanted to say about Rarity, and far better than I could have. Well done sir.
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:47 am

Marioland1 wrote:Keep Calm and Flutter On has never bothered me. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, enjoying Discord's comedic antics too much to care much about the plot.


To be honest, for 20 minutes I thought that Keep Calm was great, too. It was strictly the last two minutes that retroactively ruined the entire thing, and Discord, and also Fluttershy a little bit, for me. I'll admit to something of a personal bias due to my mom having been trapped in an abusive relationship for a year back in '06-'07, but there ya go.

Like I said, the lesson at the end of Keep Calm as presented basically boils down to, "if you find yourself in an abusive relationship, you should just tough it out rather than break a promise." I know perfectly well that that was not the intent of the episode's writer, but it's nevertheless how it came across. The ending as presented...Discord's character as the complete antithesis of harmony was basically ruined, though at least Season 4 helped restore that and then give him a somewhat more natural progression towards reform.

And Fluttershy for the first time in the series I wanted to strangle out of frustration. I have a friend who hates her because she's a complete doormat. Normally it's something I can abide by myself, since I accept that her being a doormat is part of her character and for all that the seasons of FiM pass, none of the ponies in it are ever really going to change all that much. But if ever there was a time that she needed to grow a spine, it was with this episode.

Discord should have been petrified again by the episode's end. And the reason for Fluttershy breaking her promise? "You shouldn't be held to a promise that is neither made nor kept in good faith." That is a fantastic lesson for children - for anyone - to learn.

GRRRR...nevermind what I said about Spike, that episode is merely awful. Keep Calm is genuinely infuriating to me.
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:19 pm

I think it's better to hold that for the Keep Calm discussion, when it comes up.
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:01 pm

Marioland1 wrote:I think it's better to hold that for the Keep Calm discussion, when it comes up.


I'll probably just end up copy/pasting it over.

---

MOVING ALONG! I liked this episode. Minor hiccups in characterization don't tend to bother me, but as I pointed out above I don't even view this episode as being out-of-character for Rarity, whom we've seen in the past gets obsessive over things. Out-of-left-field due a lack of Trenderhoof having been established in a previous episode, perhaps, but such is the nature of the 22-minute episode length, there's never enough time for everything you might want.

I did like, though that the episode itself - like many in this season, and Season 3 - took the time to reference events in previous episodes; in this case, Applejack being perfectly capable of acting all fancy if she ever feels the need. Her southern belle accent was one I hope we'll see more of in the future. The references to past events, even without them being direct (her time in Manehattan isn't directly mentioned, but anyone who's seen Cutie Mark Chronicles gets it), help make Seasons 3 and 4 seem "tighter" than the previous seasons, but at the same time the references never really reach a point where prior viewing is necessary (save season finales), thereby keeping the episodic nature of the show intact.

Heck, it was good enough to earn a few smilies here on this site. Clearly it was doing something right. :flirt: :heehaw:

And, I'll say it, I liked that this episode dealt with romance, even if in a silly crush way. The target audience of the show is 8 to 12, which is around the time that schoolyard crushes being to form. Any oversimplification, from our adult point of view, of the romance here is justified by the need to both appeal to the target audience, and ensure that said audience takes away the lesson of the episode.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:53 am

Drawing I did inspired by this episode (or rather, the discussion for this ep)

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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:06 am

Hah, you should do drawings like that for all of the episodes, they'd be neat to see. :allears:
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Postby Sobana (?) » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:31 am

PaulloDEC wrote:It's by far the most blatantly sexual bit of imagery the show has ever done, yet for some reason it kinda just flies under the radar.

I can't wait to see how they plan to stop that for the next season... :gotcha:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:00 pm

Eh...I don't want them to go too far with that sort of stuff. Occasional jokes like that would be OK, but I don't want to see it become like John K level imagery.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:03 pm

I doubt that it'll happen again. Honestly, I'm surprised that this episode went as far as it did in Trenderhoof's infatuation-vision of Applejack.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:32 pm

ROBOT B9 wrote:Eh...I don't want them to go too far with that sort of stuff. Occasional jokes like that would be OK, but I don't want to see it become like John K level imagery.


Fizzbuzz wrote:I doubt that it'll happen again. Honestly, I'm surprised that this episode went as far as it did in Trenderhoof's infatuation-vision of Applejack.


Yeah, I realise Sobana was probably just being silly, but I doubt they'll ever go any further than what we saw in Simple Ways, nor should they. I loved those little moments, but let's be honest, this isn't really the show to be pushing that envelope.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:52 pm

Well in the first season we had a joke about the punch being "spiked" by Pinkie, so I think it's safe to say one envelope pushing joke every now in then is something that's been set up from the start. But yeah, it's a very rare thing, once every handful or seasons is good enough, doesn't need to be a common occurrence.

And we kind of already may be getting that again in Rainbow Rocks, I mean the Dazzlings are obviously made to be seductive *being sirens and what not*. So I wouldn't be surprised if that movie has at least one moment akin to the one in SW.
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Postby RainbowDoubleDash (?) » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:09 pm

SoundMonkey44 wrote:Well in the first season we had a joke about the punch being "spiked" by Pinkie,


Don't forget Appletini, either.
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Postby Stargazer (?) » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:29 pm

RainbowDoubleDash wrote:
Don't forget Appletini, either.

Think it's fair to say that jokes like these are a shout out to a more adult audience, stuff that might go unnoticed by young kids. There have definitely been jokes like that, I daresay one for every other episode. Nothing inappropriate, just a little under the radar and quick so that older fans can have a laugh. I quite like it.

Almost forgot about that infatuation-vision... that made me a bit uncomfortable tbh. I doubt they'll be doing it again, but... nyeh. :notgonnadoit:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:36 pm

Stargazer wrote:Almost forgot about that infatuation-vision... that made me a bit uncomfortable tbh. I doubt they'll be doing it again, but... nyeh. :notgonnadoit:

To be honest, that scene was funny and probably fine for kids. All that really worried me about it was how this fandom would react, but worrying about this fandom shouldn't be a factor in making the show. I just wouldn't want the show to do it again since they would then be recycling a gag.
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