In-Season General Show Chat - Season 6 Conversation Station

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Re: In-Season General Show Chat - Season 6 Conversation Stat

Postby Soft Snow (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:38 pm

That is boring. I was wondering who would take the heat if they decided to cancel the show.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:01 pm

I'd like to know who was responsible for the earliest EqG toy designs, too, but they were also designed by committee and handed down to DHX with orders to make a movie with them. That's the frustrating thing about committees in stuff like this. They dissolve originality and responsibility.
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Postby Homeswirl (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:02 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Hasbro bought some 3rd party doll molds for super cheap, and decided to tack them on to MLP for a cash-in. I can't imagine anybody actually coming up with those abominations for themselves.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:50 pm

Eh, I can see how things came to be as they were. They wanted something that could compete with Monster High and that they could hitch onto the tremendous success of FiM, so they made the Mane Six into high schoolers and started making "human" dolls toy-first. The trouble came when they went way too hard on the toyetic elements (huge legs with huge boots and tiny arms and torsos help them stand up, skirts are easier to make than pants so they all wear skirts, actual tails would require hair in a second part of the doll so instead their "tails" are just long parts of their hair, pony ears help hats stay on the head, wings were applied via a slot in the back that was present in all the characters since they used only one torso mold, no horns since that would've required a second head mold or a hole on the forehead, and weird skin colors to justify all the other weird junk or possibly to avoid drawing the ire of racists) and thus failed to produce something artistically coherent.
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:57 am

So, I went to go see that new Batman vs Superman movie and I got a pina colada and they put whip cream on it which I think was nice of them to do. I was lapping it up like a puppy, it was fun. And the whole reason I brought this up here was because I wore all my brony gear there and someone recognized it and they were excited, then I excited and then we exchanged bro-hooves. I it nice, how ever rare, to find another fan of the show like that in the wild.
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I should of asked for her contact information. I could of made a real life pony fan friend but I missed the opportunity.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:48 am

The Doctor wrote:
Was Manehattan well diversified?

Well, they had an alicorn!

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Postby Sidotsy (?) » Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:05 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:Well, they had an alicorn!

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Obviously the prince of business. :-/
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:22 pm

Hey, I want to remind everyone that the S1 rewatch will be continuing tonight on the Pasture at the usual time of 7:30 Eastern.
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Postby Aramek (?) » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:49 pm

Sidotsy wrote:Obviously the prince of business. :-/

That's Blarg's oc.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:03 pm

SFDebris, a popular Sci Fi Episdoe review site, did an April Fools episode with 4 episodes of the show being reviewed (with a bit of a crazy pony theme).

http://sfdebris.com/videos/animation/mlpspecial1.php


Despite being April Fools, it's a very fairs review of the show. He's reviewed a few episodes of the show before, and apparently got some flack from viewers about it from people who hate the show, so this was probably his way of getting back at them. As always, it's kind of interesting to hear a non-fan's review of the show.

Episodes reviewed:
Party of One
Lesson Zero
It's About Time
Luna Eclipsed

:gotcha: He also makes a hilarious comparison of Princess Luna to Captain Janeway.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:32 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:The Pasture's up now but all the users seem to have been wiped from its database, which means I can't queue anything up. As such I'll be doing the rewatch here, tonight: https://cytu.be/r/oldcartoonhorses
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:21 am

I liked tonight's viewing. Boast Busters reminded me that a lot of the earlier shows were rather on edge about their moral lessons. While Trixie was aggressive to the hecklers in the crowd, the adults in the audience should have known better that it was just a stage performance meant mostly to entertain the children in the audience. Many real life stage magicians often refer to themselves as "The Great" and then greatly exaggerate their exploits. Since magic is common and Trixie only knew a few spells, she had to liven up her show with fireworks and tall tails. Trixie was a professional and I didn't get the feeling she would stay in Ponyville. She might of stayed there a day or so and then moved on and we would have never heard from her again. If Rarity and Applejack didn't start something.

Now Trixie lost her home and career. If some got you fired from your job and then destroyed your house, it wouldn't be unexpected if you sought revenge.
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Postby UnintelGen (?) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:44 am

Soft Snow wrote:I liked tonight's viewing. Boast Busters reminded me that a lot of the earlier shows were rather on edge about their moral lessons. While Trixie was aggressive to the hecklers in the crowd, the adults in the audience should have known better that it was just a stage performance meant mostly to entertain the children in the audience. Many real life stage magicians often refer to themselves as "The Great" and then greatly exaggerate their exploits. Since magic is common and Trixie only knew a few spells, she had to liven up her show with fireworks and tall tails. Trixie was a professional and I didn't get the feeling she would stay in Ponyville. She might of stayed there a day or so and then moved on and we would have never heard from her again. If Rarity and Applejack didn't start something.

Now Trixie lost her home and career. If some got you fired from your job and then destroyed your house, it wouldn't be unexpected if you sought revenge.
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I've been wanting to say this for years (it feels like) but this is why I love Magic Duel so much. Boast Busters is a legitimately awful episode if only for how it it framed, which was kinda key for Season 1 episodes with their lesson mandates and such. Magic Duel comes off to me as if the writers went and said, "You know what? We f'd up, OK. So... What if we took that concept to its logical conclusion...?" :gotcha: and chose to show us what the consequences were for those actions. I view (the episode) it as an apology to the audience, though that's reaching admittedly. (In that, it was the intention of pointing out the flaws of Boast Busters and the Mane 6's designated protagonist status.)

It's also kinda funny to remember that the Mane 6 were the only hecklers during her performance. That was more Season 1 budget and scope than anything, but still.
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:52 am

I feel like if she was booed by the entire crowd, not just the main six, she might of just left town right away. If she couldn't make money why stay? Clearly there had to be enough to have had liked her show for her to stay over night.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:05 am

I imagine she still would've stayed the night to rest. I mean, she was drawing her own cart.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:13 am

Soft Snow wrote:I liked tonight's viewing. Boast Busters reminded me that a lot of the earlier shows were rather on edge about their moral lessons. While Trixie was aggressive to the hecklers in the crowd, the adults in the audience should have known better that it was just a stage performance meant mostly to entertain the children in the audience. Many real life stage magicians often refer to themselves as "The Great" and then greatly exaggerate their exploits. Since magic is common and Trixie only knew a few spells, she had to liven up her show with fireworks and tall tails. Trixie was a professional and I didn't get the feeling she would stay in Ponyville. She might of stayed there a day or so and then moved on and we would have never heard from her again. If Rarity and Applejack didn't start something.

Now Trixie lost her home and career. If some got you fired from your job and then destroyed your house, it wouldn't be unexpected if you sought revenge.
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So the problem with Trixie from where I'm sitting isn't that she's boastful. Her problem is her attitude.

To be clear, Applejack, Rarity and Dash are acting super weird here. People have made the point that Trixie is clearly in the process of putting on a show, and the girls are acting as if they've just seen someone on the street bigging themselves up. Totally true.

However, Trixie makes a total hash of handling things. Take Flim and Flam from S2, for example. Like Trixie, these two are also way into showmanship, but the difference is that Flim and Flam aren't combative or aggressive; their spiel is about playing up their own product rather than playing down that of their competitor. The moment Trixie is challenged by her audience she responds by biting the hand that feeds. Rather than trying to win over the crowd by being playful and friendly, she responds to displays of skill with cheap and nasty physical attacks. When AJ does a neat rope trick, Trixie hogties her. When Dash does some aerial manoeuvres, she gets physically tossed in off the stage. She acts like an asshole in a way that dwarfs anything that the girls were doing or saying, and she's lucky the crowd didn't rush her for it on the spot.

The girls were wrong (and weird) to heckle her, but Trixie's response is far, far worse and totally, utterly unprofessional. And that's before we get to the fact that she's using local stupid children as PAs.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:47 am

PaulloDEC wrote:
So the problem with Trixie from where I'm sitting isn't that she's boastful. Her problem is her attitude.

To be clear, Applejack, Rarity and Dash are acting super weird here. People have made the point that Trixie is clearly in the process of putting on a show, and the girls are acting as if they've just seen someone on the street bigging themselves up. Totally true.


Even the Mane Six's reaction wasn't entirely deliberate. Rainbow Dash starts boasting herself (and early RD wasn't that different from Trixie when it came to boasting), gets glared at, and tries to change the subject by loudly booing Trixie. Until then, the others had been unhappy but not actually making a spectacle of it. When RD starts shouting, though, Trixie calls them out.

Beyond that, generally agreed. It's sort of an unintentional start to things, but Trixie definitely inflames things by being combative and insulting so isn't innocent either.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:09 pm

I don't think Applejack, Rainbow Dash, and Rarity were really in the wrong for answering Trixie's challenge. After all, at that point it just seemed like part of her act, right? The real problem was that Trixie turned out to be a jerk in general.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:22 pm

Bremen wrote:
Even the Mane Six's reaction wasn't entirely deliberate. Rainbow Dash starts boasting herself (and early RD wasn't that different from Trixie when it came to boasting), gets glared at, and tries to change the subject by loudly booing Trixie. Until then, the others had been unhappy but not actually making a spectacle of it. When RD starts shouting, though, Trixie calls them out.


That's true, actually. Good point.

Fizzbuzz wrote:I don't think Applejack, Rainbow Dash, and Rarity were really in the wrong for answering Trixie's challenge. After all, at that point it just seemed like part of her act, right? The real problem was that Trixie turned out to be a jerk in general.


Answering the challenge wasn't an issue for me at all (though I'm not sure it was a part of her act; I guess it could've been?) Trixie being a jerk and the Mane 6 being cranky for no reason were the core issues as far as I'm concerned.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:46 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:I don't think Applejack, Rainbow Dash, and Rarity were really in the wrong for answering Trixie's challenge. After all, at that point it just seemed like part of her act, right? The real problem was that Trixie turned out to be a jerk in general.

The weird part is right at the very beginning. She's performing, and they get mad at her for calling herself great and powerful because they've apparently never seen a stage magician before. Then she's such a jerk that she retroactively justifies their low opinion of her. It's... strange.
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Postby shotgunbadger (?) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:13 pm

Yea Trixie later overshadows it by being a Proper Dick and all but it's really weird that it starts with the good guys basically heckling a stage magician for calling herself 'great and powerful' while clearly putting a show on.
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Postby DaBatGuy (?) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:11 pm

The is issue with Trixie's show is how magic is represented in-universe. IRL we know know that magic isn't real and that stage illusionists are using deception, misdirection and elaborate props to imitate the impossible. When you watch them you don't ask "where'd they learn those spells?" you ask "what combination of smoke and mirrors are they using?" . However in Equestria magic is a real, tangible, studyable phenomenon, it's literally a science to them and we know from the NMM incident that magic powerful enough to oppose deadly threats like an Ursa exists.

Trixie claims herself as the greatest magician in a mostly magic-less town(Ponyville is an Earth pony founded town that refuses to use magic when it's beneficial because tradition) and gets called on her BS by the ponies who have first hand experience fighting and using extremely powerful magic. IRL this would be like Bill Nye doing a science lecture at an elementary school, using stage magic to prove that he can make pocket dimensions and black holes and getting called out on his bs by the science teachers in the audience. (I don't think Bill Nye is a fraud, he's just the first science guy name that came to mind)
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:30 pm

Of course at the time it was all still pretty unclear exactly how big a role magic plays in ponies' everyday lives; this was what, the sixth episode, the fourth regular-season one? It starts out by launching into expository stuff about how Twilight is unusual and special just in knowing more than one or two little "tricks". You get the impression (especially given the general, not-very-explicitly-set-up premise of Ponyville being a predominantly earth pony town) that most of the inhabitants have hardly seen any magic before, whether of the stage variety or the real kind.

The "magic as science" conceit is plenty interesting, but it might not have developed quite the way they intended; and early in S1 it was difficult to say what the expectations of the audience should have been.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:48 pm

Note that even Twilight didn't immediately dismiss Trixie as lying about what she could do (and was curious enough to research her claims), so I don't think the Bill Nye metaphor is correct. In fact, they seem to take Trixie's claims at face value:

Twilight Sparkle: There's nothing wrong with being talented, is there?
Applejack: Nothin' at all, 'cep'n when someone goes around showin' it off like a school filly with fancy new ribbons.
Rarity: Just because one has the ability to perform lots of magic does not make one better than the rest of us.

They just seemed unhappy with her boasting, and I think that speaks more to their characters. Rarity thought it was uncouth, Applejack probably didn't like a unicorn boasting about how magic was better (consider her reactions in Winter Wrap Up), and Rainbow Dash just didn't like somepony boasting about being better than her. It was Trixie's attitude that got them to complain, not any immediate belief that she was a charlatan.
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Postby Homeswirl (?) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:20 pm

DaBatGuy wrote:(Ponyville is an Earth pony founded town that refuses to use magic when it's beneficial because tradition)


I think you mean "refuses to use unicorn magic", because earth pony and pegasus magic is still quite certainly involved. :rainbert:
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:30 pm

While some of the blame might have been on Trixie, mostly certainly a majority of it is on the others. Did she act unprofessionally? It depends on your idea of professionalism. Trixie could easily hear the comments that Rarity and Applejack were saying, but ignored them until Rainbow Dash made enough noise to over talk Trixie. She was fluid enough in her show to accommodate nay sayers into her act. She called them out on stage, gave them a chance to perform and then played a joke on them to embarrass them. Then show was over and that was the end of it. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen a stage performer call out hecklers and embarrassed them like that before.

Trixie ended up losing her entire livelihood and I wasn't sure what she was suppose to learn from all that. Be a nicer and more humble stage performer otherwise someone will ruin your life?
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I feel like the writers were trying to tell a classic tale but were trying to put a new spin on it. But it took away from the idea that she was wrong by having the protagonists start the conflict unprovoked. It is like giving someone the world's greatest dad coffee mug and then someone else getting mad because they thought that was a false statement. I think it would have played out better if Trixie just simply lived in Ponyville and then went around talking down to earth ponies for not having magic and bragging how great she was at magic. Acting like a bully would have given them justifiable reason to call her out on her bragging. Then her running out of town would have felt more appropriate.

The way they made it just felt questionable. I feel that moral grey line is what really drove a lot of conversation about the show in it's early days.
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Postby Bremen (?) » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:11 am

I'm kind of in mixed agreement with that.

Trixie didn't really do anything villainous. At worst, she was a jerk and a bad entertainer (and really, even that's an opinion many people are split on.) She certainly wasn't to blame for the Ursa.

On the other hand, I don't think we were necessarily supposed to feel that her losing her trailer was a justified punishment, either. Or at the very least that's left up to the viewer. Plenty of other houses got stomped too, after all. It's not like the ponies ran her out of town (RD did make to follow her, but I think mostly due to anger about her last boast) or tried to throw her in jail. I'd definitely agree that she didn't deserve what did happen to her, between the trailer and stories spreading, and it makes her descent into bitterness rather believable (especially considering that she wasn't exactly a paragon of niceness to begin with.)
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