S06E12: Flutter Brutter

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Re: S06E11: Flutter Brutter

Postby Aramek (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:45 pm

Mordja wrote:Oh my god this episode was amazing. Zephyr was perfectly awful, and Fluttershy putting her hoof down was the best. I really feel like this season's emphasizing the "hey, these are grown-ass ponies with roles & responsibilities" more than ever and I couldn't be happier.

And, finally, the NPCs are referencing the whole "You've saved the world, like, twelve times" which is baller as fuck. :awesomedash:
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:10 pm

:twonk: MY FRIEND'S GOT A BROTHER AND SHE HATES THAT DICK, SHE TELLS ME EVERY DAY

• Snack makes sense. Flutterclan is the orange Jell-O of families.
• Flutterdad considered model trains, but they're so assertive ...
• TAKE YOUR MANBUN AND YOUR STUBBLE AND GET THE HELL OUT, ZEPHYR BREEZE :applejargh:
• I appreciate when this show has grown-up appeal (being a grown-up), but I wonder whether this episode will hold much interest for the core demographic. Will kids be bored?
• Oh god, he's hitting on Rainbow Dash! If there's an Angel murder plot then all my predictions will come true!
• Someone please reassure me that "hair therapy" isn't a real life thing.
• I hate Zeph but credit where it's due, "this Breeze needs his Z's" is pretty great. Also, lol at Rainbow Dash giving shit about midday naps.
• Their fireplace is full of ... gems and clouds? :rariwhat:
:flutterdear: peeved
• This is the show that redeemed Discord, Gilda, and Diamond Tiara, but I swear to God, if they make Zeph likable by the end of this it'll be their greatest feat yet.
• Puppy Eyes Zeph is a great face. Additionally, seeing him sad warms my heart.
• Lawn gnome squirrel! And bunny! :allears:
• Oh yeah, Angel murder plot is coming. I can already see the wheels turning in his little head.
• "Rainbows"
• Oh man, Zeph is gonna screw up this fabric job worse than Sweetie Belle.
• I'm completely down with new whip-cracking Fluttershy.
• Fluts kicked him out! I love happy endings! Wait, there's ten minutes left?!
• Maybe Zeph can live at Knee Brace Grandma's house.
• "Constance" :lol:
• Oh, he's become Lumpy Space Princess! Good.
• I would absolutely let him live like this.
• We turn the corner and suddenly A SONG JUMPS OUT OF THE ALLEY AND DEMANDS OUR WALLET AND JEWELRY
• The scissors closeup just raises the question of why they have finger holes.

Summary: Even after everything, I still hate him. I hate him so much. Oh, the episode? It was fine I guess.
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Postby Brunellus (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:13 pm

How lazy does he have to be that Dash feels the need to mention it?
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Postby die Fledermaus (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:24 pm

Aramek wrote:And, finally, the NPCs are referencing the whole "You've saved the world, like, twelve times" which is baller as fuck. :awesomedash:


Yea I did like someone at least bringing up 'ok fair point but you literally saved all of creation so you can get why I may be at a different bar than you'
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Postby Adelor Lyon (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:28 pm

Mechanical Ape wrote:I appreciate when this show has grown-up appeal (being a grown-up), but I wonder whether this episode will hold much interest for the core demographic. Will kids be bored?
It's been six years since the show came out. If some kids started watching at 6 years old, they're twelve now and are probably starting to really feel some pressure like what's shown in this episode. Even if it's something simple to us, to kids something like the pencil breaking or batteries running out on a toy can feel like the end of the world, and if enough things like that happen, they can throw a tantrum. Sure, Zephyr's an exaggerated representation, but even kids know what it's like to feel enormous pressure and think they can't do anything based on a couple of failures. Heck, so can adults: We never stop growing up.

Zephyr's tantrum was a great scene that I really liked; when things aren't going well, there's problem after problem, failure after failure, and nothing that you're trying to do to work through things makes any difference, I can definitely understand the need to lash out at inanimate objects no matter how immature it may be. I just did rear brakes on a very, very rusty car and after about six hours of swearing and pleading I was about ready to take a hammer to everything around me because god dammit this isn't supposed to be this PEEVING HARD. :twonk:
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Postby Perinerd (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:39 pm

Adelor Lyon wrote:It's been six years since the show came out. If some kids started watching at 6 years old, they're twelve now and are probably starting to really feel some pressure like what's shown in this episode. Even if it's something simple to us, to kids something like the pencil breaking or batteries running out on a toy can feel like the end of the world, and if enough things like that happen, they can throw a tantrum. Sure, Zephyr's an exaggerated representation, but even kids know what it's like to feel enormous pressure and think they can't do anything based on a couple of failures. Heck, so can adults: We never stop growing up.



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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:01 pm

Almost forgot:

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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:10 pm

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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:17 pm

Mechanical Ape wrote:• I hate Zeph but credit where it's due, "this Breeze needs his Z's" is pretty great. Also, lol at Rainbow Dash giving shit about midday naps.


:rainbert: I work my flank off and EARN those naps.

• Oh man, Zeph is gonna screw up this fabric job worse than Sweetie Belle.


:smirk: Fluttershy is arguably the worst friend in the world, leaving her brother unsupervised in Rarity's boutique. She knew what would happen.
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Postby Yolostar (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:56 pm

Episode was alright. It had good moments but I would hesitate to call it good. Flutterparents were cute af and their home was really cool looking. I liked that Fluttershy had the biggest backbone in her family and that she actually seemed less scared than usual but the overall story just felt like an old man yelling at those damn kids to get off his lawn. It probably didn't help that Zephyr was such an asshole that I didn't want him to succeed. Also, the song came out of nowhere and the episode probably would have been better without it. Relatively weak episode, I was hoping for more.
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:04 pm

Little hard for me to separate Zephyr from Trenderhoof. Same bodystyle. Same dilettante attitude. Same 'new character out of nowhere'.


Click for Fullsize


Of course, in his episode they stopped focusing on him and went to :heehaw:

Yolostar wrote:Also, the song came out of nowhere and the episode probably would have been better without it. Relatively weak episode, I was hoping for more.


Some episodes have thirty minute premises that need to be paired down, some episodes have fifteen minute premises that need padding.
I'm not really liking the song appearing after the climax of the story - Zephyr hitting rock bottom and throwing a tantrum in the forest. The episode is already winding down, but they have a good four minutes left.



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Postby VGAddict (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:07 pm

I can relate to Zephyr. I worry about my future often.

That said, I think it would have worked better if he weren't such a manipulative, self-centered, lazy asshole. It was hard to cheer for him.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:13 pm

Serioustalk, I think I know what they were going for cause, well, I've been there. The song made me go :-I :-I :-I cause I saw myself in it. Not so much in the rest of the episode though.

They couldn't exactly make an episode about stuff like fear of failure, anxiety or depression in A Pony Show though, so they just made him a total douche trying to take advantage of everyone, and all his problems would be solved if he'd just get off his ass and do something with his life already. Except then they try to make him sympathetic with the forest scene and the song and stuff, and it's kinda weird.

I'm not sure if they're sending the wrong message here or McCarthy, having been to a lot of pony cons, is saying exactly what she means to say :-I
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:48 pm

Adelor Lyon wrote:Zephyr's tantrum was a great scene that I really liked; when things aren't going well, there's problem after problem, failure after failure, and nothing that you're trying to do to work through things makes any difference, I can definitely understand the need to lash out at inanimate objects no matter how immature it may be. I just did rear brakes on a very, very rusty car and after about six hours of swearing and pleading I was about ready to take a hammer to everything around me because god dammit this isn't supposed to be this PEEVING HARD. :twonk:


Haha, you too? The one I did earlier today was an Audi A4 that smelled like cigars and ass :v:

Anyway, the forest tantrum scene was pure gold. Could not stop laughing.

But while 90% of the episode was great, especially texturally (everything Zephyr said grated on me just right, particularly because every single time it provoked the same disgusted expression from Fluttershy)—the song and redemption scene didn't seem to fit right, not with the kind of character Zephyr was set up to be, and not with what I've come to understand is the underlying problem behind why a lot of people find themselves in his position.

I mean, you spend half an hour reading posts in the Cottage and it becomes pretty damn obvious that people who don't have jobs in their mid-20s aren't all in that situation because they fear failure and hide it behind a veneer of egotism. How many stories do we all know of people who would love to get jobs and move out, if for no other reason than in order to get away from the emotional abuse of their parents who tell them they're worthless all the time? And while obviously the episode isn't trying to say all millennials are just special snowflakes who can't be bothered to get off their asses and work like our generation had to :argh: (or at least I sure hope it isn't), telling oneself that doesn't exactly make the episode's story feel any better to a person who is doing the best they damn well can to get along in a world that seems to have no need for that college degree that put them in debt up to their eyeballs.

The impression I got of Zephyr wasn't of someone who wasn't willing to do work or follow through. His "mane therapy" thing seemed like he was an artiste type who thought doing day-to-day work on normal ponies' manestyles was beneath him and expected the world to beat a path to his door for having a meditation den and a sculpture garden and so on. That kind of density is something I can legitimately despise a character for and want to see him beat about the head and shoulders with wrapping paper tubes until he shapes up.

But the way to have done that would have been to have a resolution and redemption arc for Zephyr that would force him to get over himself, i.e. to learn to enjoy and find fulfillment in the same kinds of workaday jobs that all the rest of us have to put up with, and engage in his self-indulgent artistic side in his spare time once he's paid for it. You know, the Office Space ending.

Not to a) expose him as someone with genuine mental problems and psychological blocks that prevent him from finishing projects or improving his skills to the point where they're in demand, and then b) talk down to him and everyone in the audience by infantilizing him and telling him "just try harder, persevere and all your problems will magically be solved because you can see our upper teeth"
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:50 pm



Haha, what was this? The bit with Zephyr picking up worthless shit to carry with him as he heads despondently out the door, right?

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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:50 pm

Image

Image What sort of cutie mark is that?

Image It's just a vague swoosh sort of thing?

Image Wait. So, this guy's whole deal is that he isn't really into doing much of anything and he gets a cutie mark, while WE SEARCHED FOR SO LONG

Image There is no justice in this world.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:05 am

I feel like this episode is going to draw out a whole bunch of people who see elements of their own situation or behavior in Zephyr and cause them to feel stuff about that, despite the fact that they aren't actually like Zephyr at all. As far as I can tell, his entire character can be summed up by "If something's hard to do then it's not worth doing!"; nothing here struck me as the guy having issues beyond being a spoiled, lazy kid with no interest in expending any effort. I don't think the point of the episode was to somehow call out people living at home either; if anything, the point was to call out people like Zephyr who are willfully and deliberately lazy freeloaders. The episode as I saw it was about him being finally given the push into the real world by Fluttershy that no-one else in his life had been tough enough to give him.

Anyway, I loved this one. Funny, nicely paced, neat song, great use of regulars and new characters alike. Also, this:

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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:16 am

PaulloDEC wrote:I feel like this episode is going to draw out a whole bunch of people who see elements of their own situation or behavior in Zephyr and cause them to feel stuff about that, despite the fact that they aren't actually like Zephyr at all. As far as I can tell, his entire character can be summed up by "If something's hard to do then it's not worth doing!"; nothing here struck me as the guy having issues beyond being a spoiled, lazy kid with no interest in expending any effort. I don't think the point of the episode was to somehow call out people living at home either; if anything, the point was to call out people like Zephyr who are willfully and deliberately lazy freeloaders. The episode as I saw it was about him being finally given the push into the real world by Fluttershy that no-one else in his life had been tough enough to give him.


That's true; the problem is that those people who are in legitimately more difficult situations have often been criticized by people who think they are just being lazy freeloaders. The episode feels like it's taking the side of the accusers and refusing to hear the other side.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:18 am

It's funny, i thought the song was one of the better ones of S6 and wasn't too jarring. :pinkieshrug:

Also Zephyr being fully redeemed isn't perhaps the most realistic, but I never expected another ending so another shrug.
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:19 am

Yeah I get the feeling people are actually relating a little too much to Zephyr, like the episode is saying "all you gotta do is try and you too can be a productive member of society"

Except Zephyr isn't a single mom who had her child in highschool, he doesn't have a physical or mental handicap (his fear of failure doesn't really tip into hard anxiety levels), he's just the youngest child from a middle class well off family whose parents are pushovers. He's a very specific case of person who just happens to not have a steady job, and tough love happened to be the remedy.

But yeah how much someone is going to like this episode depends entirely how they feel about Zephyr. Since I didn't really hate him, but just found him ridiculous (in a comedy/cartoon way) I didn't necessarily want to see him fail nor did it take much to suspend my disbelief in his turn around.

EDIT: PaulloDEC basically summed my thoughts up better
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
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Postby Sailor Yue (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:31 am

I also love that Fluttershy has the biggest backbone of her entire family. It makes me feel so much better feeling kin to her.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:31 am

Headless Horse wrote:
That's true; the problem is that those people who are in legitimately more difficult situations have often been criticized by people who think they are just being lazy freeloaders. The episode feels like it's taking the side of the accusers and refusing to hear the other side.


I think anyone feeling that needs to perhaps take a breath and remember what show it is they're watching. I don't mean that in a nasty way; I think people literally just need to remember that this is not the kind of show where people with genuine problems are put down and mistreated in the way you've described.

Wayoshi wrote:It's funny, i thought the song was one of the better ones of S6 and wasn't too jarring. :pinkieshrug:

Also Zephyr being fully redeemed isn't perhaps the most realistic, but I never expected another ending so another shrug.


Kinda fast wrap-ups are pretty normal in this show, though to be honest I didn't find this one to be a particularly serious offender in that category anyway. We've had much, much worse. I liked the song too.

DerFurShur wrote:Yeah I get the feeling people are actually relating a little too much to Zephyr, like the episode is saying "all you gotta do is try and you too can be a productive member of society"

Except Zephyr isn't a single mom who had her child in highschool, he doesn't have a physical or mental handicap (his fear of failure doesn't really tip into hard anxiety levels), he's just the youngest child from a middle class well off family whose parents are pushovers. He's a very specific case of person who just happens to not have a steady job, and tough love happened to be the remedy.

But yeah how much someone is going to like this episode depends entirely how they feel about Zephyr. Since I didn't really hate him, but just found him ridiculous (in a comedy/cartoon way) I didn't necessarily want to see him fail nor did it take much to suspend my disbelief in his turn around.


Nicely put. I didn't hate the guy the way I've seen others speaking; I mean, he's clearly an annoying bag of dicks, but I wasn't fuming with rage or anything. It was satisfying watching the regulars deal with his crap.
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Postby Adelor Lyon (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:32 am

PaulloDEC wrote:As far as I can tell, his entire character can be summed up by "If something's hard to do then it's not worth doing!"; nothing here struck me as the guy having issues beyond being a spoiled, lazy kid with no interest in expending any effort.

Pretty much. The writers wrapped things up with a nice happy end because that's what the show requires, but in a more real world, where's Zephyr going to be in the next few months? He's had a lifetime to develop bad habits, used other people, and abused their generosity. Basically, I don't see him long-run changing just because two ponies sang him a song and he finished one shitty model head of hair and then got a shitty Ponynet degree in Mane Care.

...That said, absolute :lol: at the animators moving all of Zephyr's "hoofhands" mane construction during the song off-screen, especially the part where he wipes his brow while the parts and pieces while using scissors kept flying. If writers/animators aren't going to come up with clever ways around "hoofhands" and instead deliberately acknowledge it by showing the results of those off-screen actions on-screen, I'm okay with that too.
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:40 am

PaulloDEC wrote:

Nicely put. I didn't hate the guy the way I've seen others speaking; I mean, he's clearly an annoying bag of dicks, but I wasn't fuming with rage or anything. It was satisfying watching the regulars deal with his crap.




As I've said, he's basically a ponified version of another character from one of my favorite shows. Sure that character was an annoying bag of dicks but I found him funny and I couldn't help laughing at all the ridiculous sayings and bullshit Zephyr kept saying
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:47 am

I appreciated that Zephyr abuses "literally" :v:
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:49 am

It's true I might be projecting a little :v: But the song does feel pretty jarring, like they wanted to do more with this premise but it just didn't happen, probably cause it just isn't that kind of show. They had their heart in the right place, anyway.
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:01 am

I love Zephyr because the way he kept hitting on Rainbows reminded me of Aldo from the movie Spy. Rainbows wasn't having any of that non-sense. He wins all my affection.
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Postby Daring Do (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:02 am

Mordja wrote:Oh my god this episode was amazing. Zephyr was perfectly awful, and Fluttershy putting her hoof down was the best. I really feel like this season's emphasizing the "hey, these are grown-ass ponies with roles & responsibilities" more than ever and I couldn't be happier.


This post made me realize.

Fluttershy's trying to make Zephyr get a job... When *she doesn't have a job either*. And the mystery of how Fluttershy supports herself (assuming Equestria's like our world) lives on... The "rich family" idea seems to be Jossed now too.

Speaking of:

DerFurShur wrote:Well Fluttershy's family isn't rich, but they've got to be upper middle class.


Why do you say that?
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:04 am

Planting flowerbeds, keeping cloud collections in the patio screen room? bourgie af
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:06 am

Flutterdad fecklessly chasing down his little scraps of cloud as they floated away was sad as hell though :nnngh:
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:08 am

Daring Do wrote:
This post made me realize.

Fluttershy's trying to make Zephyr get a job... When *she doesn't have a job either*. And the mystery of how Fluttershy supports herself (assuming Equestria's like our world) lives on... The "rich family" idea seems to be Jossed now too.


I wonder whether we'll ever see this addressed. I mean, I've always gone with the idea that Fluttershy is pretty much Ponyville's unofficial park ranger/animal wrangler/ecological advisor who gets called up any time a badger gets stuck in a drainpipe or whatever. Like, Mayor Mare sends her a cheque in the mail every now and then even if she isn't technically on the books.

Oh, and re: Bingo, I've got three possibles this week: "duet", "romantic themes for the mane 6" and "someone new sings". The last one I think is a lock, but what about the other two? Does the duet get cancelled out by Zephyr joining in? Does Zephyr repeatedly hitting on Dash count as "romantic themes"?

Headless Horse wrote:Flutterdad fecklessly chasing down his little scraps of cloud as they floated away was sad as hell though :nnngh:


That little bit where he traps a piece against the wall of the building and then drops it got me. Lovely little piece of animation.
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Postby Factory Factory (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:08 am

She's a vet and runs an animal sanctuary. What's the mystery?
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:20 am

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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:34 am

I wouldn't say Fluttershy is a vet so much as an animal therapist.

But even without that, she's basically an animal sanctuary/park ranger for the Ponyville area.
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Postby VoidChicken (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:36 am

Fluttershy and the government have an understanding. Fluttershy gets a regular paycheck, and Equestria doesn't suffer the animalpocalypse. Everypony's happy.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:37 am

PaulloDEC wrote:Image


I love when pegasi just sort of go limp and dangle in the air like crane flies :gotcha:
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Postby Daring Do (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:38 am

Headless Horse wrote:Planting flowerbeds, keeping cloud collections in the patio screen room? bourgie af


Well, now you've got me feeling I'm somehow spoiled/ignorant. ;_; Cause I set the bar for "upper middle class" a little higher myself. I thought flowerbeds and stuff were normal.
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:43 am

Flutterdad worked at the Weather Factory long enough to retire and he has a collection of the best samples from every product line since he started working. They wouldn't let some schmoe line pony have those, and it implies he was either middle management or might have been involved in the "designing" of the clouds, since that collection is something belonging more of an architect or engineer or some shit.

As for Fluttermom she was never implied to have a job, and going by how meticulous their home is she's probably a homemaker. So they were able to afford that home, a second full building and support two children (one into his pony-equivalent twenties) all on one salary.

As for Fluttershy's job, by now I've excepted she extorts Ponyville for bits, otherwise she'll sick bears and shit on them.
Last edited by DerFurShur on Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Why does life have to be so IRONIC?" :milkshake:
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:43 am

We don't know how Fluttershy pays the bills, but at least whatever she does, she puts effort into it and gets it done. If Zeph had Fluts' life, there'd be a horde of animals sleeping through Winter Wrap-Up, some with un-set broken legs, no squirrels would know any dance steps, and Angel would be a pile of bones by an empty food dish.

Image What sort of cutie mark is that?

Image It's just a vague swoosh sort of thing?

Fittingly, his special talent is being vague and directionless! :idea:
Image
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Here comes her 19th nervous breakdown
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:45 am

Headless Horse wrote:
I love when pegasi just sort of go limp and dangle in the air like crane flies :gotcha:


Haha, me too. It's like every part of them gives up except the wings.
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