S05E12: Amending Fences

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Re: S05E12: Amending Fences

Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:31 pm

iTunes version of Twilight's shameful photo wall

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Twilight looks younger in that shot with Applejack.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:41 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:Twilight looks younger in that shot with Applejack.

Well, she is. Notice that all four of those smaller photos are from before she grew wings.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:43 pm

:cheese: Here's a photo of me when I was younger.

:seethe: Every photo is of you when you were younger!

[/hedberg]
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:57 pm

The Doctor wrote:I still love how Pinkie and Minuette were friends. Pinkies, "and you call yourself the Princess of Friendship" line was great.


The funniest part was how Twilight immediately starts speechifying...

:wingsright: "I did head home. But not to throw in the towel. I went to get my secret weapon. Minuette, meet--"

--and gets shut the f down in mid-speech.

I love Twilight, but I also love it when she acts like a tool and gets taken down a peg. See also:
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:12 pm

Here's the slow ears Headless was talking about

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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:41 am

ROBOT B9 wrote:So wait, if that's Minuette, what was she doing in Ponyville?


Visiting Lyra. It's pretty obvious that except for Moondancer and Twilight, they've stayed in touch. (And Twilight could get a few lessons in doing so, apparently.)
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:20 am

Wayoshi wrote:Here's the slow ears Headless was talking about

Image


Eeeeeeeeee :awesomedash:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:54 am

I just love the animation in that scene, how her facial expression changes so quickly.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:42 pm

Would this episode have worked as an episode in S1, or perhaps early in S2? I thought about this in the YouTube CC thread just now, initially as a joke about our fandom, but now it seems to me like the basic premise here could've fit in quite well back then. Hell, I know how it could work. If this were the 25th episode of S1 then it could open with the Mane Six traveling to Canterlot in preparation for the Gala; upon arrival, Twilight bumps into Minuette or one of the others, and having learned as much as she has about friendship in Ponyville, she could then easily realize how awful of a friend she was beforehand. Obviously you'd have to dump some details like Pinkie Pie knowing Minuette from the royal wedding or any references to Twilight's coronation, but the general story here feels to me like it still would have fit in S1.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:46 pm

I think that's one of the reasons why I like it: it has just enough storyline to keep you interested and yet is simple enough to where it could potentially work as a introductory episode.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:53 pm

It would have been perfect as an episode in an S1 that was slightly more serial than what it actually was.

Now that I've seen shows like Gravity Falls and Steven Universe and ATLA/Korra, it's pretty clear to me that making a show serialized is no great avant-garde innovation. Lord knows tune-in-next-time serials were how mediums like radio got their start. And Pony had to have decided on its minimal level of serialization as a conscious choice, not because they tried to do it more serially and couldn't pull it off or whatever. Just a smidgen: an arc about dresses and the Gala, touched on once or twice mid-season, and then a capper at the end. Some gradual character development and callbacks as you go. Nothing that rigorously enforces a timeline, just a general feeling of the passage of time.

But if it were just a teeny bit more serial, they'd definitely have wanted to explore more about Twilight's backstory and her friends back home, and set up her exit from Canterlot as a plot thread in its own right to be tied up before the season's end rather than left dangling.

Coming back to it after this much time doesn't disrupt the episodic nature of the show as much as it could have if it had happened earlier, but then again a lot more linear progression has happened that makes it feel almost like this story was all but an inevitability.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:11 pm

Minuette: So, uh, what are you studying these days?
Moon Dancer: Science, magic, history, economics, pottery. Things like that.

A callback to Starswirl the Bearded's amniomorphic spell?

Image
These two make a wonderful couple.

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Nice detail on the crushing of the party hat.

Mechanical Ape wrote:Now I wonder how Lyra, Minuette and Twinkleshine ended up as Cadance's bridesmaids. :ponder:


Well, since Lemon Hearts is an event planner at the palace, she'd probably have no problem sticking a few volunteers in here and there. Though, she did end up being pretty sidelined at that particular wedding (still, better off than her friends).
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:32 pm

Niels Olof wrote:Image
These two make a wonderful couple.


Look how she's standing, all knock-kneed :3:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:41 pm

Cadance might've met Lyra, Minuette, and Twinkleshine at some point when she was babysitting Twilight. I imagine she would've cared a fair bit more about Twilight's social life than Twilight herself did.
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Postby MochaBean (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:58 am

UNICORNS: The Episode :awesomedash:

Loved this one, and everyone's pretty much already articulated why. I used to love it in season one when we'd get these small, brief visits to Canterlot that only hinted at a bigger setting and backstory for Twilight's life, and this felt a lot like that, although with more of the actual details filled in. It's really cool that they reached all the way back to the pilot and plucked out this little tidbit to build a story around, and makes the setting feel even more realized. Love how they used it as an excuse to explain background ponies as well.

I think my only complaint would be that T-Sparx seemed a bit too oblivious concerning her past at times. I get that they were playing up her terrible interpersonal skills for laughs and to underline how far she's come, but at times she felt like a borderline amnesiac or something. Still, not enough of a nitpick to derail things, and it's probably my fave episode of the season so far.

As for Cadance having Lyra and Minuette as her bridesmaids, I just figure she knew lots of the kids at Twilight's school. Babysitting is the go-to profession for a princess on the rise!

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Postby The Doctor (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:05 am

Niels Olof wrote:
Image
These two make a wonderful couple.



:spike101: Those two represent one of the shows more subtle references.

While it's fairly obvious that Smarty Pants was influenced by the look of film star, Errol Flynn...

Image

...Fleur's slender build and French Cutie Mark are almost certainly a referecne to Flynn's first wife, French Model, Lili Damita.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:34 am

Re: the bridesmaids, Shining Armor says this:

And she decided to replace her bridesmaids because she found out the only reason they wanted to be in the wedding was so that they could meet Canterlot royalty!


Could be true--Minuette and her friends seem like they're up for funny shenanigans--but I think it's more likely that Cadance chose them for legit reasons and Chrysalis cooked up an excuse to boot them (probably didn't want ponies who knew Cadance well getting suspicious).
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:38 am

Yeah, even in light of this episode, that excuse still seems like a lie that Chrysalis thought up in order to throw Twilight off.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:54 am

I figure Cadance probably foalsat them all, but unlike Twilight, they all stayed in touch with her as they moved on in life.
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Postby Master_Twig (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:01 am

Poor Cadance has no friends her own age.
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Postby Davyinatoga (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:03 am

Some more observations:

- So are those books in "The Library" (cool name for a bookworm's apartment, imo) really owned by Twilight? That is a LOT of books.

- Moondancer isn't just an alt-color of Twilight, she's literally inversive: she's a light yellow (opposite of lavender), and her hair colors are orangish with purple stripes. A change of pace from every other Anti-Twi villain who are just morally opposite.

- In the magic kindergarten flashback, was Twilight reading from a science book and Moondance reading from a cookbook, hence the differing order?

- I love that Moondance looks like she's running behind everyone during that soccer-polo-something game in the very end. Of course the bookworm who does very little rigorous activity is going to have a hard time keeping up.

- Where the heck have I seen that exact same tail-copter animation before?! I recognize it from somewhere...
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:13 am

Davyinatoga wrote:- Where the heck have I seen that exact same tail-copter animation before?! I recognize it from somewhere...


Image

:v:
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Postby marshmallow (?) » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:28 am

A lot of the better episodes have relatable themes, but Amending Fences was a little too real. Seemed like it was aimed right at the college age+ crowd.

1. Disconnecting yourself from reality and living in your own little world.
2. Growing apart from old friends.
3. Nostalgia for an ever receding past.
4. How your decisions negatively affect others, even if you didn't mean to.
5. (bit of a reach) Staying in school to study because the real world is scary. Keep dem student loans rolling in.

I'm curious what the intended demographic thought of it. Anyone have a report? I'm sure they liked the background ponies given personalities, but I'm not sure how they'd react to the over abundance of sad/awkward scenes. There weren't a whole lot of gags or jokes to undercut it, either. Seems like one of those episodes you watch as a kid and go "whatever" and then rewatch it as an adult and gain a whole new appreciation.

Speaking of Twi's old house, that led to some serious fridge logic. I understand why they did it narratively (to show all the time that's passed). But it's saying she never went there all the times she's gone back to Canterlot? They always stay at the palace? Given Canterlot's location I'd think real estate prices would be insane. She didn't rent it out to anyone?
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Postby Strangepony (?) » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:48 am

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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:18 am

marshmallow wrote:Speaking of Twi's old house, that led to some serious fridge logic. I understand why they did it narratively (to show all the time that's passed). But it's saying she never went there all the times she's gone back to Canterlot? They always stay at the palace? Given Canterlot's location I'd think real estate prices would be insane. She didn't rent it out to anyone?

Twilight's family is old money.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:35 am

marshmallow wrote:Speaking of Twi's old house, that led to some serious fridge logic. I understand why they did it narratively (to show all the time that's passed). But it's saying she never went there all the times she's gone back to Canterlot? They always stay at the palace? Given Canterlot's location I'd think real estate prices would be insane. She didn't rent it out to anyone?


This was my only issue with the episode. It would have made more sense and been just as effective to maybe have Twilight go to her Parent's basement to find boxes of their old stuff (maybe more effective as we might get glimpses of Twilight's home). I always figured the room in the pilot was a library at Celestia's school or something similar. In the end, for me it's a very minor thing in an otherwise outstanding episode.
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:38 am

marshmallow wrote:Speaking of Twi's old house, that led to some serious fridge logic. I understand why they did it narratively (to show all the time that's passed). But it's saying she never went there all the times she's gone back to Canterlot? They always stay at the palace? Given Canterlot's location I'd think real estate prices would be insane. She didn't rent it out to anyone?


I'm betting it was actually originally Royal property- and after everything happened, odds are Twilight was much more interested in spending time with people vs. being in her literal ivory tower. She had gone into her usual obsessive mode regarding Ponyville and her "lesson plan" of learning friendship...and that was that. Celestia wasn't going to take it back, Twilight had the key so nobody was going in there, and the end result was her old place just sitting there until the need came.

One could hold it to be an allegory for her friendships in Canterlot- forgotten in a new obsession to gather dust.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:54 am

I always thought that it was meant as a sort of temporary residence for Twilight that Celestia set up.
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Postby Wylie (?) » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:29 am

And they kind of had to go back there for a plot point: Apparently in Spike's now-famous gift FOR Moondancer was not only the busted-up teddy bear, but also that picture of Twilight and the Canterlot crew. He got to give it to her at the end of the episode.

(Also it was probably fairly irresistible for them not to show that "Predictions & Prophecies" book with the layer of dust on it, right where she left it in S1E1.)
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:18 pm

WandereringPony wrote:One could hold it to be an allegory for her friendships in Canterlot- forgotten in a new obsession to gather dust.

Damn, that makes a lot of sense. I wonder if it really was intended to have a double meaning like that.
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:52 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:Damn, that makes a lot of sense. I wonder if it really was intended to have a double meaning like that.


Considering Moondancer's bit with the book she gave Twilight, almost certainly.
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Postby acksed (?) » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:38 pm

Damn good episode, because feels.

I appreciated the look at more of the world's Unicorn magic: silence spell was cool, book diving, just :awesomedash:
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:08 am

WandereringPony wrote:
Considering Moondancer's bit with the book she gave Twilight, almost certainly.



Image : You should know that this mare took advantage of a gift of hospitality and left my book behind when she left!

:twonk: : THE PRINCESS ORDERED IT!
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Postby Throbulator (?) » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:35 am

Wayoshi wrote:Image
Image
Image

Have we seen this style before?


Smug stylized book horse reminds me of Corpy's avatar. You know the one with Twilight farting.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:00 am

In used book stores, you sometimes see books with inscriptions like "to Timmy from Grandma, I hope this book brings you much happiness" and you instantly have this super sad backstory in which Timmy is a dick and grandma is a sad old woman who tried & failed to make a connection with her beloved grandson. That's how it always plays out in my head anyway.

So when Twilight did basically the same thing I was all gaaaaaaaasp :starity:

Nothing could put me on Team Moondancer faster than Twilight disrespecting a personalized book
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:09 am

^ - As someone who has done that (mainly because I was really short on cash during college), my only response is "ouch" :fluttersmith:
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:26 am

:sheepish: Hey, unlike many other books I cared about, at least I still have yours!
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:03 am

I hope that we get to see more book diving later on, it's an awesome concept.
:plonk: Image :)
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Postby Corpy (?) » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:12 am

here you go, throb

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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:56 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote::sheepish: Hey, unlike many other books I cared about, at least I still have yours!

I wonder if Moondancer knows about what happened to the library in Ponyville. If she knew that book would've been spared incineration then perhaps she'd feel a little better about Twilight having left it in her old home.
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