S04E25-26: Twilight's Kingdom

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Re: S04E25-26: Twilight's Kingdom

Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 5:58 am

So hey... was there an ultimate point to the Castle of the Two Sisters? :pinkieshrug:
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 5:59 am

Wayoshi wrote:So hey... was there an ultimate point to the Castle of the Two Sisters? :pinkieshrug:



It was an underused local before this season, and it's where the tree of Harmony was. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Wylie (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 6:01 am

It's also a neat hook to hang more stories on in Season 5 and beyond. Maybe even that Celestia/Luna episode we've all been wanting.


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Postby Ransom (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 6:06 am

The castle was actually used as the meeting room in this episode, when the keys were explained, and of course the Tree and chest was there. But yeah, they were cleaning it up and I kept expecting it to be either Twilight's castle or tie into the sisters. I could see them forgetting it (too many castles, too confusing for kids, I can see the top down mandates), but I'd love to see it revisited, especially as a Celestia/Luna flashback episode.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 6:11 am

Another thing, even if the "Real" pony of Shadows was just a fake-out end on Haber's part, it's something they can go back to in the future if they want/ feel the need to. And yeah a Tia/Luna flashback ep would be nice, or if they ever wanna do another nightmare night ep, party in a creepy old castle anyone!?
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Postby Lapis Infinitas (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 6:30 am

SoundMonkey44 wrote:Another thing, even if the "Real" pony of Shadows was just a fake-out end on Haber's part, it's something they can go back to in the future if they want/ feel the need to. And yeah a Tia/Luna flashback ep would be nice, or if they ever wanna do another nightmare night ep, party in a creepy old castle anyone!?


Why is everyone acting like there's a mystery here? Shadowy figure with yellow eyes in the Everfree forest. :doomed:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 7:03 am

If they make that episode, the twist ending should be that Zecora was late to the party and the REAL Pony Of Shadows was there all along... :-P
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 7:21 am

Ransom wrote:The castle was actually used as the meeting room in this episode, when the keys were explained, and of course the Tree and chest was there. But yeah, they were cleaning it up and I kept expecting it to be either Twilight's castle or tie into the sisters.

It's a spare castle for Princess Skyla. :gotcha:
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Postby londonarbuckle (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 8:40 am

Good GOD that was good. :starity:

Best two-parter since Return of Harmony.
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Postby londonarbuckle (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 10:34 am

Also: am I the only one who doesn't really care about the library getting 'sploded? :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Gnot Syndrome (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 10:34 am

Holy shit, if there was any status quo left, it is gone. It's gone like Golden Oaks. The status quo was Golden Oaks, and it's fucking gone.

In truth, that one little scene is really bumming me out. When I saw the spoiler, I thought, "that library's had at least a dozen dragon-sized holes smashed in it and it's still standing, how's a fireball going to take it out?" But it did, man. And I'm the type that gets sentimental over places and things. So many happy moments in that library. :cry:


I really enjoyed the finale, but at the same time it was really sad. It was great, but I just kept being reminded that this isn't the show I started watching in 2011 anymore. I almost feel like they've cranked the scale up too far. The whole Return of Nightmare Moon and the threat of eternal night just seems silly now, in retrospect, and it didn't before - not within the confines of the show, at least.

Speaking of scale, how the hell are they going to top this? There's still another season premier, and a season finale - one that could double as a series finale. Maybe the show will take a Gurren Lagann route and the main six will end up going into space and battling cosmic forces in a realm beyond mortal comprehension? :gotcha:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 10:57 am

Rainbow Crash wrote:For now, I'm very curious to know why people are cool with the rainbow power ponies when people were so up in arms about the breezies transformation supposedly being a shameless toy tie-in. Rainbow Power is an actual, literal, branded line of toys in stores right now. This episode ties in with these toys and I don't see any complaints about it. It confuses me :conftoot:

The rainbowification didn't overshadow the rest of the episode. That is to say, while transforming all the main characters like that is a big thing, it came as part of an episode full of big things. It Ain't Easy Being Breezies was far more low-key and did not warrant such a drastic move compared to the rest of the events of that episode. I don't mind that they have to do with the toys. It's how they are used that is important.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 11:29 am

londonarbuckle wrote:Also: am I the only one who doesn't really care about the library getting 'sploded? :pinkieshrug:

Well, I'm not going all :saddershy: about it, but I can see why people would.

Sure, it's just a house (and a library), and Twilight has a brand new (if significantly pointier) one already. But it represents two changes:
  1. The characters are (probably?) moving on from the basic trappings of the show's four seasons so far. Both physically and emotionally, the simple days of Twilight living out of the loft above the non-fiction stacks are gone. She now has a palace, and she will be expected to start being a ruler. Will this actually change anything in season 5? ...well, I think we suspected it would change something in this season, but now she is even more blatantly, literally moving to a new stage in her life. And maybe her friends are, too...?
  2. The destruction of Twilight's house is a shock because main characters' homes in Ponyville have been inviolate until now. Aside from the (also shocking) decay in MMC, Twilight and the others can always go home, sleep in their own beds, and know that no villain will ever blow down their door to attack them. Obliterating Twilight's home also destroys that feeling of safety and security.

    There have been times when Ponyville is broken in a silly way -- Ursa Minor steps on some houses and moustaches are handed out, parasprites eat everything and Pinkie plays us out with a trombone -- but this is just a blatant, violent act that (probably?) won't get waved away in the next episode.
(Also, Faithful Librarians will doubtless be upset by the loss of the books, if nothing else.)
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 11:47 am

Yeah, I have to say if they were going to try to drive home the SRS BSNSness of this finale and Twilight's ascension, blowing up the library is the way to do it—if they're courageous enough to make it stick, then what it amounts to is the Pony equivalent of a character death. They can't actually kill someone off, but this is the next most affecting thing. It wasn't done on a whim or as an accident. It was supposed to feel like a gut-punch, and they want the audience to know they're committed to changing the status quo. They really can't go back after this. (And though I do definitely think they'll call attention directly to it in S5, I don't think it'll be reversible.)



So, I want to say that i really enjoyed Tirek's execution as a character. Particularly behind the scenes when he's just bantering with Discord and not monologuing at Twilight—he's got a really interesting, down-to-earth, realistic way of speaking that doesn't feel like the typical pompous and overbearing BIG SUPERPOWERED VILLAIN kind of stuff. He comes across like he's a huge asshole with a huge chip on his shoulder, who happens to have some unique powers that give him an entitlement complex, but otherwise he could have just been some guy who runs a self-improvement motivational speaking course with a herd of creepy goats.

He's like the diametric opposite of CRYYYYSSSSSTAAAAAALLLLS. Makes me think Meghan really took personally her failure to make Sombra turn out the way she was hoping.
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Postby Juniper Phoenix (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 11:52 am

So aside from the fact that there would be a villain who came from Tartarus, and that Discord would be sent after him, I went into this episode knowing nothing about it. Actually, for the first time throughout this series' run, aside from the first season since I got into it after that had first aired, I had been going into every episode blind this season. No reading the episode descriptions, no reading fan speculation prior to the episode, nothing. And I think it worked out well for me. It's kind of fun going into each episode with zero expectations.

Anyway, yeah. I really enjoyed this season's finale. Discord's antics, Twilight vs. Tirec, and I even liked the Mane 6's "mega-evolutions." I'm not really miffed about Golden Oaks, but I can see why some people are. There was quite a bit of history associated with Twilight's first home in Ponyville. RIP all those books though.

And it took me a while when watching it to realize that Tirec was originally a villain in Gen 1. It was weird because I only clearly remember catching part of that special with him turning ponies into scary dragons. This was back when I was, like, 4 or 5, but back then I thought that was pretty dark for a girl's show. So it was a trip seeing a character from the one part of Gen 1 that I remember showing up here.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 11:53 am

Something I've been thinking about... Where do we go from here. I mean like others said, this felt like it could have easily been a series finale. Tirek felt pretty Final Bossish, Twilight now has her own castle & is oficcially the princess of friendship, her friends her royal council(?) so yeah...

I mean one thing I can think of is since I believe she mentioned something about teaching other ponies about friendship, perhaps have Twy & co visit other kingdoms. Or maybe more villian reformations(?). I mean seems Twys already best her part of the game, anything else is just a bonus round.


Of course we still have the others. The CMC still don't have their marks, Dash still isn't quite a full fledged Wonderbolt, and I'm still personally guessing Discord will want to work to make up his betrayel to Fluttershy somehow. It would be nice to see Spike get abit of permenant physical growth...

So I mean yeah, there's still things to do of course, but the writers will need to be on there toes now more then ever if they wanna keep up the quality and have the changes in S4 mean something.
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Postby Discord (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 12:10 pm

As a metaphor for young girls about growing up, the princess song is really growing on me. :allears:
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Postby Wildfire (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 1:02 pm

Gnot Syndrome wrote:Holy shit, if there was any status quo left, it is gone. It's gone like Golden Oaks. The status quo was Golden Oaks, and it's fucking gone.

In truth, that one little scene is really bumming me out. When I saw the spoiler, I thought, "that library's had at least a dozen dragon-sized holes smashed in it and it's still standing, how's a fireball going to take it out?" But it did, man. And I'm the type that gets sentimental over places and things. So many happy moments in that library. :cry:





The reaction to it is reminding me of the end of the Merry in One Piece. There's actually a petition to bring it back. :starity:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 1:13 pm

SoundMonkey44 wrote:Something I've been thinking about... Where do we go from here. I mean like others said, this felt like it could have easily been a series finale. Tirek felt pretty Final Bossish, Twilight now has her own castle & is oficcially the princess of friendship, her friends her royal council(?) so yeah...

I mean one thing I can think of is since I believe she mentioned something about teaching other ponies about friendship, perhaps have Twy & co visit other kingdoms. Or maybe more villian reformations(?). I mean seems Twys already best her part of the game, anything else is just a bonus round.


Of course we still have the others. The CMC still don't have their marks, Dash still isn't quite a full fledged Wonderbolt, and I'm still personally guessing Discord will want to work to make up his betrayel to Fluttershy somehow. It would be nice to see Spike get abit of permenant physical growth...

So I mean yeah, there's still things to do of course, but the writers will need to be on there toes now more then ever if they wanna keep up the quality and have the changes in S4 mean something.


I can't even guess, but I trust that the writers will come up with entertaining things to do. They did S4 with many of the same open questions in play following MMC, and they did an admirable job of it—making the season feel as much like the S1 experience as I could wish for, while at the same time not ignoring or downplaying the realities of Princess Twilight. Sure, it was uneven, but you try writing a 26-episode arc where the main character is supposed to retain her relatable charm and progress toward a position of power and royal authority and show reluctance to leave her old life behind and embrace her responsibilities and destiny and do stuff with the semi-reformed Discord and move the other Mane 6 along their respective arcs and at the same time sell toys and keep good balance between character focus episodes and teach a good variety of morals and tie in with storylines set up in previous seasons and sell toys and spread it across a whole team of writers many of whom are new and do it all in a consistent and smooth manner that never shifts in tone and most importantly, have fun! Image

So now they've reached another milestone, one that's even harder to do all this stuff with, but the challenge they're up against is nothing new. There will be many of the same questions and conflicting goals to deal with. But I think they set themselves a hugely high bar with all this shit in S4 and they sailed right over it. Just as much as S1 ran rings around what I was expecting a 2010 flash-animated My Little Pony reboot to be, the same otherworldly set of standards among the staff that made S1 such a revelation have proven to be thoroughly up to the task of achieving success at something far higher in complexity and intrinsic difficulty.

The longer the show goes on, and the more they consciously write traps and restrictions around themselves by tying the existing narrative together to inform later stories and by setting big un-ignorable character goals and arcs like Princess Twilight, the harder it will be to pull it off, and surely sooner or later we'll find the limits of what this team can do. But they didn't have to do what they did with S4. They could just as easily have ignored the arcs and progressions; they could have gone to episodic continuity like in S1 where no one episode ever has any material bearing on any other outside of fleeting little one-liners and where the biggest thing they had to work towards throughout the season was a fancy dress party; they could have reversed the Twilicorn mandate as unceremoniously as they've whipped off-stage the little toyetic variants like the Crystal Ponies and the Breezies and the Rainbowified designs. But they didn't do any of that—because they didn't have to. These people know what they're doing. And I think they like a challenge. Again, not saying they're perfect at it. But c'mon, freaking DS9 was uneven too. And I'd argue that the challenges the pony team has willingly taken on are equally, if not more, impressive even if just to have met on the field of battle, let alone won.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 2:02 pm

You're right it's like they say, when one door closes, another one opens! I'm sure, what lies ahead will be just as fabulous! If not more so! :vogue: :flirt:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 2:10 pm

Wildfire wrote:

The reaction to it is reminding me of the end of the Merry in One Piece. There's actually a petition to bring it back. :starity:

I can't help but wonder how many people in this fandom are going to keep using the library in stories and pictures, much like there were people who refused to draw Twilight with wings for a while. That sure lasted for a long time. :smirk:
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 2:30 pm

:excellent: You miss the library, don't you, Twilight?

:shock: Well, of course.

:excellent: Well, here's a little secret I've been keeping under my hat. I knew Tirek might try to destroy the library to get to you, so I took the precaution of making an exact duplicate and storing the real one away for safekeeping.

:-/ But you were on his side...why would you protect the library?

:excellent: One must always keep one's bases covered...now, if you ask politely, I might be persuaded to restore it to its former glory. *takes out a flash drive*

:awesomedash: Hey...it's my flash drive!

:excellent: They didn't have any Fluttershy ones. Well, Twilight?

:-I Pretty please with cream and sugar?
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 2:32 pm

londonarbuckle wrote:Also: am I the only one who doesn't really care about the library getting 'sploded? :pinkieshrug:


There's a lot of scenes that took place in that tree house library.
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Dragon Ball Z, Super Duper Goku and Freeza fight on planet Namek and lots of landscape gets blown up. Something similar happens in Avatar: Last Airbender for it's final battle.

http://youtu.be/ZsvkuT0QQL8 - for illustrative purposes

:twonk: woah woah guys, careful now, you might actually destroy something of consequence now. There might be a little thing called aftermath here.

This might actually be a first - it's not like the Superfriends's Hall of Justice ever gets obliterated.
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Postby Venusy (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 2:41 pm

Every S5 episode features a previously beloved location being permanently destroyed. Hasbro still refuses to sell playsets of the replacements.
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 3:05 pm

:bluh: I don't blame ya if ya weren't being careful in the heat of the battle Princess Twilight, but, Tirek stepped on mah barn.

:gonkity: Oh-h-h-h Applejack! Your poor barn! I'm so sorry! This must be devastating to you!

:squintyjack: ...
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 3:12 pm

:-I Rainbow Dash, I'm so sorry about your home.

:v: No worries, they take 10 seconds to build.
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Postby Mordja (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 3:16 pm

Oh, just checking, is Twilight's new crib actually based on a playset?
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 3:18 pm

I don't think it's out yet, but I think the playset was shown at a toy show earlier in the year.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 3:20 pm

Unlike the library, which despite being designed to be toyetic, never did :fluttersmith:

But yeah, the castle is pretty sweet.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 3:33 pm

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:excite: See everyone! I build a perfect replica of the Library on the second floor!

:eyebrow: You sure that's not just a picture of the old library glued onto the wall?

:spoiler: shut up.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 3:33 pm

Mordja wrote:Oh, just checking, is Twilight's new crib actually based on a playset?

From what I've heard, these days Hasbro's toymakers are taking ideas from the show, instead of dictating toy-based characters and sets and such for the show to use.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 3:38 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:From what I've heard, these days Hasbro's toymakers are taking ideas from the show, instead of dictating toy-based characters and sets and such for the show to use.

You've said this a couple times, but what is the source? I find this very hard to believe.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 4:00 pm

It's based on what I've heard from reports of convention panels and such. I take it with a grain of salt myself, of course.
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Postby dragoonanime (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 4:31 pm

I really wish they had shown owlicious again after he flew away when the library was destroyed.
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Postby ScionVyse (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 4:45 pm

So yeah, I really liked the series premiere to My Little Dragonball. I have a feeling that series will end up going places, and fast. :-D

Seriously, that was freaking awesome. Sure, Tirek not knowing about Twilight's existence is a plothole the size of Jupiter, but if you can ignore that, it was freaking brilliant. Tirek was a truly threatening villain, and he really did his job well, before Deus Ex Rainbows happened. I was kinda surprised that Discord didn't expect Tirek's betrayal, but I suppose whether or not Discord knew about the events with the brother depends on a timeline that we most certainly won't get. :pinkieshrug:

After Tirek was defeated and the magic was returning to the land, it was pretty lame that they just used the same world map on the posters and stuff with the text removed, but whatever, it was a quick shot, they definitely spent their budget elsewhere. :v:

Edit: And people said the princesses wouldn't die this episode. Tartarus is part of the Greek land of the dead, where their souls are judged after they die. My headcanon is that they were dead for as long as they were in Tartarus, but got better, because shut up. Greek gods were sent to tartarus all the time, and plenty got back out.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 4:59 pm

I don't think Tirek not knowing about Twy is a pothole, she hasn't been a princess long, and Tireks spent most of his time plotting & scheming his revenge. Doubt he kept up with current news & trends. He didn't know about Discord either.

As for Cadence she's still more famous then Twy & been a princess at least a decade longer then her, so yeah.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 5:05 pm

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:-I Most factual comic this fandom has ever made.
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Postby VoidChicken (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 5:06 pm

Tirek found out about Cadance from a toy store in Manehatten. They were sold out of Princess Twilight.
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Postby ScionVyse (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 5:06 pm

SoundMonkey44 wrote:I don't think Tirek not knowing about Twy is a pothole, she hasn't been a princess long, and Tireks spent most of his time plotting & scheming his revenge. Doubt he kept up with current news & trends. He didn't know about Discord either.

As for Cadence she's still more famous then Twy & been a princess at least a decade longer then her, so yeah.


See, I don't buy that. Sure, Twi hasn't been a princess for years and years, but she was made a princess after his release, and a significant amount of time had passed between then and the finale. Unless his plotting and scheming was "Oh I'm gonna get those princesses, and when I get them they'll be got!" and didn't do any sort of reconnaissance, research on where the largest amount of ponies are located, and how to actually get to the throne room quickly and without alerting everyone to his presence, there's no reason for him to have not heard that a new princess was made.
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Postby SoundMonkey44 (?) » Sun May 11, 2014 5:12 pm

Tirek was pretty single minded in his goals. Steal magic, get strong, get revenge, conquer Equestria! Weather you buy it or not, doesn't make it out of the realm of possibility.

And as mentioned he was in a weakened state when he first escaped. Survival was most likely more important to him then gathering intel.
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