MLP Movie - airing October 6, 2017

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Re: MLP Movie - 2017, Hasbro Allspark, Joe Ballarini Writing

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:45 am

Venusy wrote:I can see a brief retelling of the pilot, Twilight's ascension, and maybe the replacement of the Elements of Harmony. Copy the intro storybook style from the pilot, just extend it to Twilight's legend.

This seems like the best way of doing it, especially if the opening credits are laid over it.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:52 am

You know, that sounds like it would work nicely as well. Get Celestia to narrate it and play it over the credits...it could look nice.
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Postby Sobana (?) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:02 pm

Those are all great ideas, guys. I just hope Hasbro learned their lesson from the last pony movie they made.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:33 pm

Venusy wrote:I can see a brief retelling of the pilot, Twilight's ascension, and maybe the replacement of the Elements of Harmony. Copy the intro storybook style from the pilot, just extend it to Twilight's legend.

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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:37 pm

Only if they do the rest of 2001 in the movie. :rainbert:
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Postby Sobana (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:04 am

If that is how the movie is suppose to look in boom toon it seems a bit off. Like the lines seem to thin...
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Postby Perrydotto (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:11 am

No, that's just a short this specific animator did in his style for Ponies The Anthology.
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:19 am

I recognized the scene immediately, so nyeh :-P
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Postby ShieldedDiamond (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:19 am

PaulloDEC wrote:
Uh... okey dokey?


What, is something supposed to be weird by asking that?
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:40 am

No, there's nothing weird about it at all. He is new here and probably didn't know.

Anyway, that 2001 short makes me laugh every time. Derpy as Dr Frank Poole just gets me.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:53 am

ShieldedDiamond wrote:
What, is something supposed to be weird by asking that?


Not exactly, but it doesn't really tell me a great deal. If you could offer a little context I might have a better idea of which words I should and shouldn't use to refer to you in future. PM me if you'd prefer.

It's also a little irksome when someone ignores the content of your post to reprimand you like that, just so you know. No hard feelings, just wanted to put that out there.
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Postby Bumble-B (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:17 am

Sobana wrote:If that is how the movie is suppose to look in boom toon it seems a bit off. Like the lines seem to thin...


Toon Boom :spike101:

The thing is, art styles have nothing to do with what program is animating it, whether Flash or Toon Boom. Like, compare these four shows: Penn Zero, Wander Over Yonder, Star vs. the Forces of Evil, , and the Mickey Mouse Shorts




All these shows are animated in Toon Boom (and by the same studio) yet each still have their own different aesthetic styles.

The difference between Flash and TB is that animators find it easier to animate in Toon Boom and you'll tend to see more animation and character movement in TB-animated works looking more smooth and slick due to a couple reasons. TB has a traditional workflow which traditional (hand-drawn) animators prefer to work with than on Flash. The User Interface also is more intuitive and easier to work with. And lastly, it has a major advantage in smoothening lines which otherwise would look crooked. All of these just makes animating easier and therefore allows them to put more work into tweening ("process of generating intermediate frames between two images to give the appearance that the first image evolves smoothly into the second image") and other things, which is why TB animated works tend to have more fluid animation.

But now that you mentioned it, a fan artist did animate these in Toon Boom recently.
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(The artist is Kanashii, or 1n33d4hug, who previously worked on flash but moved to TB)

Obviously it's not going to look like the movie, let alone the show art style-wise (admittedly, not a big fan of the artist's art style) and the animation is a bit rough but this does somewhat demonstrate how fluid the animation can be made in TB. And maybe flash can do this too but I think the artist him/herself said that this was easier on TB and I'll also point to Craig McCracken's words that it might have not been possible to animate Wander Over Yonder on Flash.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:51 am

Maybe once the next generation of MLP begins, its show will be animated in Toon Boom, but maybe not. If DHX's animators are used to working in Flash and have their workflows set up for dealing with Flash then they will most likely stick with Flash so long as it can still give good results. Just because Wander Over Yonder did something doesn't necessarily mean FiM would be better for doing the same.
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Postby Sobana (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:59 am

Alright, i'll admit the lines do look smoother but the animation seems more clanky to me. Pony just seems to flow better then those shows. Maybe it's due to the fact that pony uses way more frames the normal? Their limbs just seem to move to fast to give it a clean stream of movement to them.
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Postby Bumble-B (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:59 pm

Sobana wrote:Alright, i'll admit the lines do look smoother but the animation seems more clanky to me. Pony just seems to flow better then those shows. Maybe it's due to the fact that pony uses way more frames the normal?


Well, (almost) every show is animated in 23.976 frames per second (though specifically: It's animated in 12 fps but since drawing 24 frames a second is too much work :effort: they use the same identical drawing twice thus 24/2=12 fps). Pony isn't an exception either. Until robots takeover DHX Media or drawing technology improves, we won't see any show or movie animated at something higher, I'm afraid. Like I once said before, there are tricks to make characters look, or more accurately: 'seem' faster on screen. That's called animation smears.
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The only way to increase the frame rate and make it look smoother is if you have a TV that will make it at 60 frames or higher. Problem though, it's not perfect, and if you appreciate animation smears, then you won't get to enjoy them since because everything is moving faster, the smears themselves move so fast you won't see them anymore. Plus, personally, I turn off that feature every time because things just look unnatural and shot on a home digital video camera. Ponies itself looked unnatural for me.

Though I am curious what you mean by clanky? I can see people being a bit 'eh' with how wobbly, bouncy, rubbery, or jelly-like the animation can be in Toon Boom. For me, I think Mercury FilmWorks hit the perfect balance with those listed shows, though I am interested to see animation produced at a full 24 distinct frames or higher one day.

Their limbs just seem to move to fast to give it a clean stream of movement to them.

Does it? It seems like a lot of characters are stationary (stand around) and most of the scenes consist of dialogue with master shots and close up shots, which to be fair this is a slice of show, but still... I doubt the movie is going to be about Granny Smith losing her scarf to the Flim Flam Brothers in a Go Fish game

Perhaps that is what you meant, since the characters aren't moving about and their actions are simple normal movements, they look seamless to you. I'm also rewatching some of the more action oriented scenes in FiM and scenes like the Wonderbolt Academy scene...

Has this 'flat' and slowness speed to it. Even though it uses speed lines from now and again, a lot of the flying still seems slow. Like, when the pegasi crash into one another, I don't feel any sort of weight or 'oomph' to that impact. And there's a lack of interesting camera angles to make things more exciting. Lack of speed, weight, and interesting camera angles isn't just exclusive to this scene but to most of the other action-y scenes as well.

And don't get me started on the S1 Rainbow Dash flying animation :v:

Maybe you can show me the scenes you're referring too? Apologies but I just really like discussing about animation :-P
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Postby Bumble-B (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:13 pm

Alright, I stand corrected to an extent :modesty: The Battle with Tirek, while arguably unnecessarily flashy effects-wise, did do something that action-y FiM scenes need more: More fun/creative camera angles. Like I said earlier, much of FiM is unexciting, calm, dialogue driven, and that's okay for the slice of life aspect but unfortunately that also affects the action scenes that are supposed to be more adrenaline filled. Thankfully in the Tirek battle, there's a variety of different angles to give the action a sense of speed and urgency. Also, the part when Twilight gets thrown into the mountain is one of the few scenes where I felt like there was actual weight and impact to the characters and world. It's a a massive improvement for the series.


Also, the song segments benefit from some of the mentioned things. Like in Babs Seed...

Fun camera angles, colorful and creative visuals. And this applies to other many songs too.

Perhaps that's how FiM could make up for the lack of fluid animation. Different and fun camera angles, faster editing, and yearly slight animation improvements.
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Postby Sobana (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:11 pm

It's simple animation design and slower speed just makes it feel more realistic. Like each scene gives me enough time to process what's happening and get emotionally invested. Fight scenes with a lot of angles can be impressive but without emotional context it is just meaningless camera movements. It seems like those other cartoons move at a fast pace already so when they need to do a fast scene there isn't much change from a normal scene expect through camera positions. A ponies walk speed and crash speed are destint enough that you can do both from the same angle and still look different. It just seems like other cartoon characters bounce from one side of the scene to the other while a pony does a swagger.

As for weightlessness, yeah but that is part of the stylized charm of the show. If they can easily pick up another pony effortless with one hoof then it does give you that feeling.
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Postby fenster (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:56 pm

Sobana wrote:If that is how the movie is suppose to look in boom toon it seems a bit off. Like the lines seem to thin...


Keep in mind that it was purely a pet/side project that was done more for the sake of speed by 1 guy. If given the chance he'd love to redo it and clean it up, and if there was an actual dedicated team directing you'd probably see improvement as well. It's only a small example of how differently things could be, along with all sorts of the other fan animation exist to look at.

Also keep in mind, between Toon Boom vs Flash, is that they are both just programs and don't dictate the animation style necessarily. They COULD do almost everything in the show they've done so far in Toon Boom in theory, the programs just have different work flows. It's much harder for traditional animation to apply itself to Flash (and flash UI sucks), which is part of why Toon Boom is usually preferred. However, as for if the studios would stick to Show style vs how far to branch for a new style is something we can only guess at.

Sobana wrote:It's simple animation design and slower speed just makes it feel more realistic.


I agree in that it's what I like about the show, but I'm not entirely sure if that's what the movie will want to go for. Actiony stuff draws more attention so it would make more sense to me that the movie would tend a little more on the action side, which could apply to their direction of the animation as well.


ShieldedDiamond wrote:
Really, lets be entirely honest. Are there going to be "legions of new fans won" from this? No. The fanbase is already loud enough that people at this point have already seen it, or don't want to. And there is no way people would actually pay to see this if they don't feel like watching the show. Meanwhile you have the target audience who will see it anyway, and the fandom who will probably just illegally pirate it.


I literally just in the past month introduced the show to a new friend who knew about the show but never considered watching it before. Just because the latest season hasn't exactly taken off into new higher numbers doesn't mean there is no possibility for popularity to increase after a large/cool movie. :pinkieshrug:

Headless Horse wrote:It makes a certain amount of sense to do a movie at what the studio perceives as the peak of the show's popularity and power, like right when it senses that it's jumping the shark....It's kind of an everybody-wins scenario for when the show reaches what everyone recognizes is middle age.


So basically, despite complaining otherwise, the show isn't dying and we're in the middle ages? Cool! :-D
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Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:26 pm

I really don't get all the people thinking the show is dying since literally every season it's average viewership has gone up. I remember when everyone thought it was a big deal that A Canterlot Wedding broke like 200,000+ and now the average for any season 4 episode was like 300-500,000

Heck Rainbow Rocks beat the original Equestria Girls premere by about 100,000 despite airing in the middle of a Friday afternoon.

How things will look in 2017 I'd anyone's guess but given that the show is still on a channel that a lot of people still don't have is mostly watched either through Netflix or on YouTube, there's still plenty of room for it to grow by the time the movie comes around.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:28 pm

fenster wrote:So basically, despite complaining otherwise, the show isn't dying and we're in the middle ages? Cool! :-D

It's almost like this sort of doomsaying is happening over and over. "Lauren Faust left? The show's ruined and the fandom's gonna wither and die!" "They brought a new alicorn princess out of nowhere? The show's ruined and the fandom's gonna wither and die!" "They made Twilight a princess? The show's ruined and the fandom's gonna wither and die!"
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:33 pm

Yeah, I think that the show is going to be well off for the next few years with that kind of track record. We'll have to see but the odds seem pretty good on that front.
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Postby Sobana (?) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:30 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:It's almost like this sort of doomsaying is happening over and over. "Lauren Faust left? The show's ruined and the fandom's gonna wither and die!" "They brought a new alicorn princess out of nowhere? The show's ruined and the fandom's gonna wither and die!" "They made Twilight a princess? The show's ruined and the fandom's gonna wither and die!"

"They blew up the tree?! Ruined forever!" :rant:

It's kinda like those doomsday people who swore the word was going to end in 2000, 2008, 2010, 2012 and currently some point in Obama's term. This fandom is pretty much the same. Every season so far has been the eventual end of the series. :smirk:
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:45 am

People like to panic, I guess. :v:
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Postby Doctor Zoidberg, Homeowner (?) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:18 am

Sobana wrote:"They blew up the tree?! Ruined forever!" :rant:

It's kinda like those doomsday people who swore the word was going to end in 2000, 2008, 2010, 2012 and currently some point in Obama's term. This fandom is pretty much the same. Every season so far has been the eventual end of the series. :smirk:


This gets even funnier when you realize that people have regularly been predicting "the end" (of the world, not pony per se) for the last couple thousand years. Doomsday prophesying has been a part of human culture for a long ass time.

In fandom terms, TF Wiki has my favorite explanation of the whole "ruined forever" thing.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:13 am

Yep, that wiki page is my go to when somebody mentions a "RUINED FOREVER :twonk: " feeling.
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Postby Sobana (?) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:21 am

I came from a sub-forum pony site on a transformer site that used that saying a lot. Did the transformer fans ever get as worked up over their bots as we do over our ponies?
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Postby Perrydotto (?) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:43 pm

Oh yes. Any fandom gets worked up over things, really.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:54 pm

Really, it could be applied to the internet in general. Look at web design changes.
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Postby Marioland1 (?) » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:07 am

"Youtube changed their comments! It's the end of the world!"
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Postby Sobana (?) » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:09 am

I wonder why people hit 30 on the drama scale when they are on the internet? :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Bumble-B (?) » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:09 am

Sobana wrote:Like each scene gives me enough time to process what's happening and get emotionally invested. Fight scenes with a lot of angles can be impressive but without emotional context it is just meaningless camera movements.


Well, there are some examples of fight scenes with little emotional context yet the action makes up for it. Like, I have no idea who these jedis are at all and thus their deaths could mean little to me.

But because the action is so gripping and the tone is so bleak for the jedis due to the unstoppable threat, I not only found this scene to be amazing but I actually managed to feel for the jedis who got slaughtered... well, except for Shaggy.
:-P

And there are other examples of shows that do both action and emotional context right.


I'm wondering which action scene in FiM had the most emotional context? :ponder: My guess would be the scene in Princess Twilight where she's transported back in time and tears up seeing Celestia lying on the ground. While it probably is technically the scene with the most action and emotional context, I personally couldn't feel that because I absolutely know that Celestia isn't dead because if she was, does that mean present-time Celestia is a ghost?
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Plus I already knew what was going to happen. Celestia banishes Luna. Not that anything that's a prequel can never be exciting even if we know what's going to happen but because Twilight, the 'smart' one, falls for something quite obvious which the audience (probably more adult fans) already know, the scene just didn't do it for me.

But admittedly, maybe this is asking too much for FiM. Though, for a theatrical movie with a higher budget and all, I would like to see something both exciting/exhilarating as well as having an emotional context in the movie. :allears:
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Postby doodlesplat (?) » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:45 am

AppleCobbler44 wrote:While it probably is technically the scene with the most action and emotional context, I personally couldn't feel that because I absolutely know that Celestia isn't dead because if she was, does that mean present-time Celestia is a ghost?
Scenes such as those can be emotional not because you're moved by what you see, but because you're moved by what the characters are presumably experiencing. It's a different form of emotional response. For me, that was what was at play with Twilight and fallen Celestia. I'm moved because knowing how heartwrenched Twilight would have been makes me heartwrenched in sympathy. A similar thing happens when I see Celestia being proud of Twilight for attaining new levels of Friendship—except, of course, this time it's happy emotions.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:58 am

Sobana wrote:I wonder why people hit 30 on the drama scale when they are on the internet? :pinkieshrug:


Could be a venue to air their frustrations with things. :pinkieshrug:
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Postby Perrydotto (?) » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:35 am

The internet does make it easier to be angry, but trust me, as someone who staffed conventions, drama is not reserved to the internet, but rather to humans in general.

Also, lets get back to the topic of the movie, and try not to have the same discussions over and over. It's not a problem to let a thread rest until there's something new to say.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:43 pm

Was watching Hearths Warming Eve tonight, and the pre-credits sequence really leapt out at me this time around:

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It struck me as unusually... I dunno, dimensional? I can't remember having seen a sequence in any other episode that shows the position of Ponyville in relation to Canterlot in that much detail before. I love the way Canterlot creeps out from behind the mountain as the camera moves forward in the first shot, and the way we get to see the path of the track winding through the hills in the last one.

I'd love to see some more shots like this in the film. They're probably a bit complex to be doing regularly on TV, but for a film I'd say they'd be pretty doable. It'd be really cool to see a few more big, panoramic shots like this one around some well-known sites in Equestria.
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Postby Ruflux (?) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:33 pm

Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure those shots were relatively easy to do. There's not that many moving planes in those shots, and they are also independent of each other due to the framing, so there's no "break-away point" in there where parts of the foreground clearly become misaligned with the background. That, I imagine, greatly simplifies the process of creating a scene like that, since the planes in the shot can move as much as they need to.

I absolutely agree though, that's some great cinematography and I'm sure we'll see more of that sort of thing in the movie. :allears: The commentary track for RR already mentioned how happy they were with the one moving overview shot of Ponyville they had, because together with the score, it looked much more grand than similar shots in the show before, so I assume they'll be wanting to feature more complex shots in the movie, too.
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Postby ROBOT B9 (?) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:13 pm

I'd love to see those kind of shots on the big screen...they might look even better in a movie theatre. :allears:
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Postby Applepie (?) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:21 pm

I think it'd be released in September.


Or in the summer Blockbuster season?
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Postby Sobana (?) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:39 am

I think some are worried that there might be to much competition in the blockbuster summer for the pony movie.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:20 am

Ruflux wrote:Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure those shots were relatively easy to do. There's not that many moving planes in those shots, and they are also independent of each other due to the framing, so there's no "break-away point" in there where parts of the foreground clearly become misaligned with the background. That, I imagine, greatly simplifies the process of creating a scene like that, since the planes in the shot can move as much as they need to.

I absolutely agree though, that's some great cinematography and I'm sure we'll see more of that sort of thing in the movie. :allears: The commentary track for RR already mentioned how happy they were with the one moving overview shot of Ponyville they had, because together with the score, it looked much more grand than similar shots in the show before, so I assume they'll be wanting to feature more complex shots in the movie, too.


I hope so. That one little sequence is really effective in giving a sense of scale and place I think. We're so used to seeing the world in MLP as a kind of flat backdrop a lot of the time, so having that little bit of parallaxing to show the distance between Ponyville and Canterlot, and then the jump from Ponyville -> Mountain -> Canterlot to Mountain -> Canterlot makes it all seem that little bit more real.
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