S05E08: The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone

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Re: S05E08: The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone

Postby Strangest Letter (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 8:00 pm

Perpetual Lurker wrote:I like that the map sent them to Griffonstone more or less just to patch up Rainbow Dash's relationship with Gilda. It almost make me think that the map cares about the betterment of the mane 6 and their understanding of friendship just as much as it does about fixing things elsewhere.

I was half expecting the map to send Twilight along too after her sarcastic rant about wanting to visit. :sheepish:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 8:01 pm

Wayoshi wrote:How is RD shown to remember?


Soon as she sees Gilda coming to help her, there's that look of realization about their friendship.

:v: Then she calls her a doofus.
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Postby Thaddeus (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 8:09 pm

ixnay wrote:Good episode, all hail king Grover

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This Kingdom was brought to you by the letter G!
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Postby Captain Rufus (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 8:12 pm

Ransom wrote:Yeah, griffons have had a lot of fanwork done about them, so I'm sure quite a few people had their head canons and fanfictions anihilated in glorious fashion.

But, and I guess I already said this, we know Gilda wanted to get out of Griffonstone and apparently did visit Cloudsdale's school, maybe for that reason, I do think we can guess that there are plenty of griffons who fled Griffonstone for greener pastures.


I was kind of mocking head canons a bit yeah. Though there is just enough background that not all Griffons are miserable greedy sad sacks. I mean dragons aren't all the same if you count the comics.

The Detroit analogy works since not every American is like that. Hell, not everyone from any region or place are the same. Thinking that is what leads to so much pain and suffering. But that is getting close to RL politics so I will just leave it there.

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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 8:47 pm

:amazing: Holy heck that was an episode and a half.

I wouldn't have thought that a genuinely "epic" story like this one, so chock-full of backstory and organic worldbuilding the likes of which we haven't seen since pre-Crystal Empire, would be a ripe platform for self-effacing metahumor. Like:

- Pinkie teasing the "Smile" song

- Image

- "A Rainbow Dash/Pinkie/Griffons episode? This is clearly about Gilda, so I should just stay out of the way. Doesn't mean I have to like it though. :-/ "

- reading Rainbow

- :flattered: "It's a little known secret that if you befriend a librarian, you can usually find out anything!"

- Image Friendship Image

And plenty more. I love how much AKR is getting into the idea of this whole "interactive writer" schtick, like she's as excited to see all this in its final form as we are (she probably is!). Lord knows seeing what the animation team makes of her script has got to be a huge and awesome treat. I doubt she planned for the Griffon architectural style to be based on them all living in giant birdhouses and cuckoo clocks, but god damn does that work well. :-P And that "edgy" flashback art style, wow! Pretty freakin' great if you ask me. It makes for an episode of Pony that blends the mysterious and the foreboding and the threatening with that S1 world of cake-baking and songs, and it does it in a way that would probably seem downright bizarre to someone who's new to the show and just jumping into it right now, but it can get away with it for longtime watchers for whom that juxtaposition has been slowly building over the years from the cartoony injokey threat of Dragonshy to the Disney Princess villainy of ACW, to the Tolkien-lite threat of Sombra and the S4 stakes that ran the gamut from the Mane-iac to Tirek. Between The Cutie Map and this, S5 seems to be taking on the challenge of coming up with a level of adult "seriousness" that's well above the cartoonish stuff of previous seasons, but at the same time is concertedly maintaining links to its roots through a) lots of injokes and callbacks, and b) plenty of emphasis on desserts and dresses and the things that remind us that for better or worse, this is a kids' cartoon, and one in which the tone of happiness and sweetness is as much grounds for completely sincere storytelling as it is a source of tongue-in-cheek jokes about its own genre.

I'm also really impressed that the writers did this much homework in tying in the Griffon world to mythological sources. :starity: Very nicely done.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 10:09 pm

Pinkie: "She was a bit of a party pooper."
Dash: "MMMMMM-hmmmm."

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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 11:25 pm

So....

The map sent the ponies to Equaliyville, and a result was that their baking quality improved.

The map sent Rainbow Dash and Pinkie Pie to Griffonstone and a result was the quality of their baked goods improving.



:gotcha: Some mysterious being with a love of baked goods is trying to improve the food of Equestria.
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Postby Octavia (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 11:25 pm

Have I mentioned how much I like it when Pinkie calls Rainbow Dash "Dashie"? :3:
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 11:29 pm

Octavia wrote:Have I mentioned how much I like it when Pinkie calls Rainbow Dash "Dashie"? :3:


Has anyone else called her that? Because it is super adorable.
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Postby PictishBeast (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 11:30 pm

"Anything from the trolley?"

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:-P "We'll take the lot."
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 11:31 pm

So something that occurred to me. Gilda is a baker, like Pinkie. That kinda makes the outcome of "Griffon the Brush Off" even more tragic. :deflated:

At least they made up :3:
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Postby londonarbuckle (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 11:42 pm

Really enjoyable episode, pretty intense in places actually. A lot of good little things, and I almost broke as soon as I realized we were getting a childhood flashback! :awesomedash:
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 11:43 pm

Fantastic episode with so many awesome things. Storybook flashbacks, actual flashbacks, returning characters, new world building, great character moments, tons of great gags... pretty much everything I love about this show, all in one episode.

Losing Amy Keating Rogers is going to be a real shame.
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Postby Octavia (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 11:45 pm

The Doctor wrote:
Has anyone else called her that? Because it is super adorable.


I think it's only been Pinkie so far. She called her "Dashie" in Over a Barrel too. I think the only other pony who would even consider calling her that would be Fluttershy, especially after she called Tree Hugger "Treezy."
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 11:49 pm

Octavia wrote:
I think it's only been Pinkie so far. She called her "Dashie" in Over a Barrel too. I think the only other pony who would even consider calling her that would be Fluttershy, especially after she called Tree Hugger "Treezy."


I think someone mentioned upthread that Fluttershy calls her "Dashie" during the dinner party in "Keep Calm and Flutter On".
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sat May 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Honestly if there was one hangup I potentially had with the episode it was that it seemed to be going with the whole “gryphons being greedy dicks” thing as being a racial trait, but now I think that’s no necessarily it.

Instead it just seems they grew up in a different culture with a different history than the ponies did.

I mean they do live on a mountain where apparently at anytime some cycloptic hellbeast can swoop in and steal their crap and attack the freaking throne room, only to die in a seemingly impassable gorge and they have no way of knowing.

So yeah, coming from a seemingly harsher environment is going to breed a harsher society unfortunately, but now they have a chance to try something different.

Oh and Gilda still needs to apologize to Fluttershy.

….just saying…. she was kinda a dick
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 12:02 am

DerFurShur wrote:Honestly if there was one hangup I potentially had with the episode it was that it seemed to be going with the whole “gryphons being greedy dicks” thing as being a racial trait, but now I think that’s no necessarily it.

Instead it just seems they grew up in a different culture with a different history than the ponies did.

I mean they do live on a mountain where apparently at anytime some cycloptic hellbeast can swoop in and steal their crap and attack the freaking throne room, only to die in a seemingly impassable gorge and they have no way of knowing.

So yeah, coming from a seemingly harsher environment is going to breed a harsher society unfortunately, but now they have a chance to try something different.

Oh and Gilda still needs to apologize to Fluttershy.

….just saying…. she was kinda a dick



I didn't care for the greed thing much myself. Griffons being loners and not ones to make friends easily would have worked well enough on it's own without adding in that greed thing. And really the only thing it added to the story was give reason for the guide to abandon Dash. They could have just had Dash go on her own and get trapped. The guide just abandoning her on that ledge because she didn't have money seemed way beyond "dick move".
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Postby Bremen (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 12:09 am

I didn't mind; I just took it as them being like the pony version of dwarves.

I just took Dash getting abandoned as being a joke, but if it seems like a problem, just assume that the guide didn't realize Dash couldn't climb as well as griffons.
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Postby WandereringPony (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 12:16 am

The Doctor wrote:

I didn't care for the greed thing much myself. Griffons being loners and not ones to make friends easily would have worked well enough on it's own without adding in that greed thing. And really the only thing it added to the story was give reason for the guide to abandon Dash. They could have just had Dash go on her own and get trapped. The guide just abandoning her on that ledge because she didn't have money seemed way beyond "dick move".


Of course, they're playing the griffons straight here, given they're pulling directly from the original myth. Heck, even their enemy. It's another nod to the frequent Greek-inspired mythos of the show world, and finding out about it made me appreciate why they worked it into the episode. And come to think, the one nice griffon we really get to know before this is Gustav- and he happens to be a baker too (and likely lives far away from Griffinstone). Given the horrible state of their ancestral homeland, it'd be no surprise to find out they've migrated in numbers elsewhere...but then, how did Gilda end up all the way back there?
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 1:04 am

Bremen wrote:I didn't mind; I just took it as them being like the pony version of dwarves.

I just took Dash getting abandoned as being a joke, but if it seems like a problem, just assume that the guide didn't realize Dash couldn't climb as well as griffons.


Could also have just said "Eh, she could just fly out, the only reason we needed a rope in the first place was because flying down into that windy gorge was too much of a pain in the ass"


Oh yeah, another of those "tongue-in-cheek self-referential humor" things I enjoyed was that the episode took pains to show (not tell, notably) that pegasi and earth ponies are at a disadvantage against creatures with hands. Dash asked the guide to help tighten her helmet strap, and when he refused, she just used her wing (which didn't seem to take much out of her, but they sold the idea well that she just as soon would rather not have had to). And then she had to bandage up her hoof using only her mouth.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 1:11 am

WandereringPony wrote: And come to think, the one nice griffon we really get to know before this is Gustav- and he happens to be a baker too (and likely lives far away from Griffinstone)

This is something I was going to point out, too. I thought it was funny that he's an actually good baker and Gilda is a wannabe one. I doubt there's any connection between the two, but it was a funny coincidence.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 1:23 am

Headless Horse wrote:Oh yeah, another of those "tongue-in-cheek self-referential humor" things I enjoyed was that the episode took pains to show (not tell, notably) that pegasi and earth ponies are at a disadvantage against creatures with hands. Dash asked the guide to help tighten her helmet strap, and when he refused, she just used her wing (which didn't seem to take much out of her, but they sold the idea well that she just as soon would rather not have had to). And then she had to bandage up her hoof using only her mouth.


I liked that too. I really liked Pinkie's animation in the baking scene in the intro as well:

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Open the oven with front hoof, grab the tray with mouth, close oven with back hoof. There's loads of ways they could've animated a scene like that, but I like that they did it in a way that makes it seem effortless.
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Postby Discord (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 1:46 am

I love how they have Pinkie grab a little mouth guard. Attention to detail. :awesomedash: Though they've probably done it before without me paying attention.

Great episode. Really funny, lots of great character moments, and the griffon backstory was really well presented. The ending felt more...subdued?...than I expected, but it worked well enough. This is a really solid blend of slice of life and adventure, one I hope they continue to build on.


Also, Griffonstone seems to be the Quebec of Equestria. :ponder:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 2:25 am

Ha! I missed the mouth guard on my initial viewing because of a low-resolution video :wat:

I was like, ow :nngh:
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 2:29 am

Gilda's oven mitts also had a thumb spot, was a bit funny to see Pinkie wearing them
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Postby Bremen (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 2:48 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:This is something I was going to point out, too. I thought it was funny that he's an actually good baker and Gilda is a wannabe one. I doubt there's any connection between the two, but it was a funny coincidence.


Funnily enough, the Griffon story in the Journal of the Two Sisters also involves a pastry chef. It seems to be a big deal with them (in the journal they get grouchy when they're hungry, but like sweets, so pastries are the key to soothing the savage beast).

Given that AKR wrote the journal, I'm sure she had that in mind when writing the episode even if it wasn't specifically referenced.
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Postby Lorce (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 3:13 am

Bremen wrote:Given that AKR wrote the journal, I'm sure she had that in mind when writing the episode even if it wasn't specifically referenced.

Well, she was also the one who wrote the original griffon baker in MMMystery. :-I
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 3:17 am

:awesomedash: :party: We're going on a great adventure!

:excite: What do I get to do?

:here: Paperwork.

:-/ Seriously?

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Postby Big Boss (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 3:23 am

Ransom wrote:I give you major props for that glorious pun at the end.


ahem, that is MY pun

this was a multigoon production. I wrote it (with some contributions by haller), haller did the video, octavia did the music, Aramek did the singing

you don't want to hear the secret outtake version with me singing. :v:
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 3:27 am

I'm also grinning at Mike Vogel calling out alliteration as AKR's signature move. :gotcha:
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Postby Durandal (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 3:35 am

What I most love about this episode is how it portays ponydom as basically Team America: World Police of Equestria. And the fact that it subverts the "friendship is magic and stuff!" moral by differentiating Rainbow's meaningless "Ponies are here to bring friendship to this fallen kingdom!" and Pinkie's humble acts of genuine friendship. The map sent those two specifically; Pinkie because she needed to teach a lesson, and Rainbow because she needed to learn one.

Also, as far as Pinkie episodes go, this is easily the best performance I've ever seen by her.
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Postby Discord (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 3:45 am

It's interesting to think of Pinkie as the perfect pony for the job.

Twilight, Rarity and probably AJ would have been wrapped up in the treasure just like Rainbow Dash was - it's the smart, pretty and practical looking solution. Fluttershy, meanwhile, may have been a bit too intimidated in dealing with Gilda again to handle it and would likely have been unable to encourage the friendship between her and Rainbow.

:ponder: Though it may have been interesting to see Rarity clash directly with this kind of greed.
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 3:48 am

I would hold out hope that the same Fluttershy who can now go toe to toe with Discord and keep him in line, can at least stand up against Gilda....

... unless Larson is writing hee I guess.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 3:48 am

Durandal wrote:What I most love about this episode is how it portays ponydom as basically Team America: World Police of Equestria. And the fact that it subverts the "friendship is magic and stuff!" moral by differentiating Rainbow's meaningless "Ponies are here to bring friendship to this fallen kingdom!" and Pinkie's humble acts of genuine friendship. The map sent those two specifically; Pinkie because she needed to teach a lesson, and Rainbow because she needed to learn one.

Also, as far as Pinkie episodes go, this is easily the best performance I've ever seen by her.



I think it was a team effort. Pinkie had to encourage Gilda, but Rainbow Dash was quick to respond to Gilda coming to help her (and I liked that it's loyalty that instantly gets Dash to forgive Gilda) . Pinkie didn't have to encourage Dash, or prompt her to make amends. And once they returned, both of them had to encourage Gilda to try and develop friendships with other Griffons. The key was Gilda. Pinkie Pie set things up with her, and Dash went in for the score.

And I really can't fault Dash for putting stock into the Idol story. She's been to the Crystal Empire, and that is pretty much exactly how the empire works.
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Postby Wayoshi (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 3:49 am

Durandal wrote:The map sent those two specifically; Pinkie because she needed to teach a lesson, and Rainbow because she needed to learn one.

Disagree on this - these two were directly involved with Gilda, and that lingering issue needed to be resolved to start healing the griffons. Pinkie is even-keeled as usual about past issues with people, RD isn't, and RD gets over it with Pinkie's help

Headless Horse wrote:I'm also grinning at Mike Vogel calling out alliteration as AKR's signature move. :gotcha:

How many G names can you come up with for griffons? :)
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 3:50 am

Gilda's interaction with Fluttershy in GTBO was such a bit part that I doubt it'll ever really come back up, but it would be nice to see her return to Ponyville and apologize for that. Maybe she'll return and do all that in S9. :v:
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Postby Discord (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 4:00 am

DerFurShur wrote:I would hold out hope that the same Fluttershy who can now go toe to toe with Discord and keep him in line, can at least stand up against Gilda....

... unless Larson is writing hee I guess.


I don't know that Fluttershy would see much of a point of trying to deal with Gilda, who was also acting more deliberately antagonistic as opposed to manipulative. She may be able to stick up for herself, but befriend her without any provocation? It's doubtful. She had Celestia's boundless confidence that touched her, as well as a desire to prove herself, when dealing with Discord. No such thing here.
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Postby DerFurShur (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 4:03 am

What more provocation do you need than a vague assignment handed to you by a Fancy table?
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Postby Pingcode (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 4:05 am

RD was necessary because even if she doesn't realise it, RD's still got a considerable amount of leverage on Gilda - nobody makes a point of it but Gilda has gained noticeable amounts of weight. Not ridiculously, but noticeably. Just a little thing that reinforced that Griffon the Brush Off really ate up Gilda (and lets Pinkie use the threat of RD in trouble to spur Gilda into action).

With that said, I reckon Pinkie made a much better showing than previous seasons as a non-lead - she really brought that physical style of hers to the forefront well, and was easily on par with her lead performances.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Sun May 24, 2015 4:26 am

Pingcode wrote:RD was necessary because even if she doesn't realise it, RD's still got a considerable amount of leverage on Gilda - nobody makes a point of it but Gilda has gained noticeable amounts of weight. Not ridiculously, but noticeably. Just a little thing that reinforced that Griffon the Brush Off really ate up Gilda (and lets Pinkie use the threat of RD in trouble to spur Gilda into action).


Whoa, really? I'd like to see some side-by-side comparisons if this is a real thing.

I actually had to check whether I was in the PPPP episode thread when I read that. :v:
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