S06E05: Gauntlet of Fire

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Re: S06E05: Gauntlet of Fire

Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:44 pm

Soft Snow wrote:It definitely felt like this episode brought back a lot mystery to the world again. It raises a lot of questions I'm curious to discover the answers too. I just want to know more about dragon culture at this point.

Well, by now I think we're guaranteed to learn more about dragons from Ember, assuming this isn't the last season. Or hell, if this is the last season, we could still see her again (like how we saw Sassy Saddles again after Canterlot Boutique).
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:59 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:Well, by now I think we're guaranteed to learn more about dragons from Ember, assuming this isn't the last season. Or hell, if this is the last season, we could still see her again (like how we saw Sassy Saddles again after Canterlot Boutique).


I kind of think there was a small finale drop in this episode with Twilight commenting that they've gained a "Powerful" new ally. Maybe something is coming that will require help.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:02 am

The Doctor wrote:
I kind of think there was a small finale drop in this episode with Twilight commenting that they've gained a "Powerful" new ally. Maybe something is coming that will require help.

Winter? :rimshot:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:04 am

I think she was saying that more in terms of politics than as a deliberate reference to a future event, that a connection with Ember will be a tremendous help in making contact with a race that was generally previously little-known and hard to reach. A finale that required the help of dragons would likely mean there was some massive battle to fight or similar, which is the sort of thing that I think Meghan and the gang are moving away from with FiM's premieres and finales.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:30 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:A finale that required the help of dragons would likely mean there was some massive battle to fight or similar, which is the sort of thing that I think Meghan and the gang are moving away from with FiM's premieres and finales.

For what its worth, Meghan is no longer on the show. Yeah, she's the head of storytelling for Hasbro's Girl brands, but from what I understand, she's not hands-on involved anymore.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:33 am

Mr. Big wrote:For what its worth, Meghan is no longer on the show. Yeah, she's the head of storytelling for Hasbro's Girl brands, but from what I understand, she's not hands-on involved anymore.



I was kind of surprised that with her new job she didn't wrangle a Producer credit on the show. With her getting a "special thanks to" credit in the comics starting this year, I kind of figured her job would have her, at the very least, some oversight of the franchise.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:45 am

Mr. Big wrote:For what its worth, Meghan is no longer on the show. Yeah, she's the head of storytelling for Hasbro's Girl brands, but from what I understand, she's not hands-on involved anymore.

I figure she must still have at least a little degree of involvement in the show, if nothing else then at least to guide it into a good leadup for the movie. That is something I'd love to ask her about at a con or something, though.
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Postby Headless Horse (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:52 am

BTW I liked this guy who walks like a dinosaur:

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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:34 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:I figure she must still have at least a little degree of involvement in the show, if nothing else then at least to guide it into a good leadup for the movie. That is something I'd love to ask her about at a con or something, though.

Her position sounds more like she tells the writers what toys or themes they should put in the episode/season and that is about it. With everything she has to oversee I can't imagine it would involve more direct input then that. She might just relay it to a manager and the manager tells the supervisor that is in charge of the crew. I tend to know a bit about how management works. The higher you go up the ladder the more you represent the company and the more responsibility you get to make sure everyone below you is doing their job.

So who knows, we might get a dragon battle at the end of the season after all.
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:41 am

Spike goes from zero to awkward kid hug in four frames. Image


"At least I know I have one friend..."

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I love Ember's design, still a young teenager, feminine, tough, and sleek

contrasting this with Garble - he's kinda blobby with stubby legs like a Hanna-Barbera character and his muzzle is this goofy bumpy thing
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And when you put them next to the ponies, their proportions are completely out of whack - it's like it's a different show altogether.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:57 am

The Doctor wrote:
I kind of think there was a small finale drop in this episode with Twilight commenting that they've gained a "Powerful" new ally. Maybe something is coming that will require help.

Hmm, let's see, who do we know that can fill out a 'non pony' elements of Harmony team?
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:32 pm

When the Reapers show up, ponies can count on the aid of dragons, yaks, griffons, and for what it's worth, Breezies. Still unsure about the Saddle Arabians. Oh, and the buffalo are probably on board too.

Scuderia Ferrarity wrote:I love Ember's design, still a young teenager, feminine, tough, and sleek

Her design connotes feminine without any stock "girly" visual shortcuts, like ribbons or makeup. As with many things in this episode, they thought it through.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:20 pm

Yes, they really hit a sweet spot with Ember's design.

It would have been interesting to see what Twilight would have done if Garble had actually won.

:wingsright: As the Princess of Friendship let me formally congratulate you on becoming Dragon Lord! I'm sure we're going to have a fruitful and friendly relationship.

:twience: Right?

:smirk: Probably not her personality of course, but funny.
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Postby Adelor Lyon (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:05 pm

Ransom wrote:Hmm, let's see, who do we know that can fill out a 'non pony' elements of Harmony team?

Since Disney stole cutie marks from MLP, maybe MLP is going to steal ideas from The Lion Guard? The guard only has one lion. :gotcha:
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Postby Ransom (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:06 pm

Adelor Lyon wrote:Since Disney stole cutie marks from MLP, maybe MLP is going to steal ideas from The Lion Guard? The guard only has one lion. :gotcha:

I think I need to at least look at that show sometime.

I started down the road of trying to assign elements (Ember or Gilda as Loyalty?) but sort of hit a wall and got bored :v:
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:39 pm

I wonder how much of Ember's design was inspired by the dragoness from the comic?

Adelor Lyon wrote:Since Disney stole cutie marks from MLP, maybe MLP is going to steal ideas from The Lion Guard? The guard only has one lion. :gotcha:

I haven't seen that show, but despite being a blatant pony rip off, I heard it had good animation. Though I heard it might be limited in story telling potential seeing how is it based on animals in Africa with no technology, magical elements or mythological creatures to fall back on. I mean how many stories can you possible come up with that involve hyenas invading the pride lands?
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Postby Adelor Lyon (?) » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:44 pm

Soft Snow wrote:I haven't seen that show, but despite being a blatant pony rip off, I heard it had good animation.

Well, for what it's worth, my comment was sarcasm (hence the emoticon). TLG has absolutely zero in common with MLP other than a symbol that appeared on each of the characters to represent a sort of "growth." I guess they're both animated shows for kids, so maybe two things in common? Each character has the same symbol, and other than in the initial mini-movie, they're never referenced or mentioned again. More relevant though, the show is written for an even younger demographic than Pony; it's more E/I than even S1 of Pony. In every episode the writers try to teach the audience a new fact about African nature or why certain animals do what they do, and quite often they stop the entire plot and focus on a teaching moment. Sometimes it's subtle, often it's not, and it's not always tied to the episode's plot arc or the overall moral they try to teach during the episode and recap at the end.

It's not a deep show by any stretch of the imagination; Pony's lore is miles more sophisticated than what they're worrying about in TLG, at least so far. Heck, we just spent four pages talking about the possibilities of dragon civilization and what it could mean for the future. In TLG, half the species in the Pride Lands can't wipe their own asses without a member of the Guard helping them out. Considering the show's on Disney Jr, I don't expect that to change. I mean, I guess it's not a bad show for what it's set out to be, but as an old super-fan of the original movie and its two sequels (yeah, I liked TLK2 a lot) and after being spoiled rotten by a show of the caliber of FIM, I guess I was hoping for a lot more.

So, be assured they're two very, very different shows. The characters don't have anything related to what we know of cutie marks or any of the mythos/lore behind cutie marks.

And while the backgrounds are almost always pretty in TLG, the animation tends to waver between quite competent to "not out of place in the old Timon and Pumbaa cartoon" that ran from 1995-99. I've seen better results from other Toon Boom shows, so I know it's not a software problem. To cite one glaring example, compare TLG characters walking across the ground compared to FIM characters walking across the ground. In FIM the animators almost always have the grounded hoof completely stationary on the surface, giving the impression they're standing on it. Often in TLG, the characters are sliding slightly across the surface; either their paw/hoof is moving too quickly or too slowly on the surface. That kind of thing really jumps out at me and either the animators don't have good algorithms/scripting/layer-locking set up for walking puppets or this particular detail isn't a huge priority for them.

Also, since my wall-of-text is pretty off-topic for this thread, I replied in the Lion Guard thread. Further replies about TLG should probably go there.
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Postby Mechanical Ape (?) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:24 am

Headless Horse wrote:BTW I liked this guy who walks like a dinosaur:

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Agreed! On rewatches I keep finding my eye drawn to him. Pillow dino dragon is just neat looking. He's a winner.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:38 am

Image

Did anyone think this shot was a bit unusual? I've seen cartoons like Ren & Stimpy or SpongeBob SquarePants that'll sometimes draw an extremely detailed frame of a character, usually for dramatic emphasis, and leave it on screen for a few seconds. This isn't something FiM's really ever done before, so I had been a bit surprised when this came up and Torch's hand was suddenly drawn in such big detail. I'm not saying it's a bad thing or anything, just that it struck me as unusual for this show.
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Postby Adelor Lyon (?) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:25 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Did anyone think this shot was a bit unusual? I've seen cartoons like Ren & Stimpy or SpongeBob SquarePants that'll sometimes draw an extremely detailed frame of a character, usually for dramatic emphasis, and leave it on screen for a few seconds. This isn't something FiM's really ever done before, so I had been a bit surprised when this came up and Torch's hand was suddenly drawn in such big detail. I'm not saying it's a bad thing or anything, just that it struck me as unusual for this show.

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Season 1, episode 22, "A Bird in the Hoof." It's the eye-boogers that do it for me.

Anyway, I can't say I really noticed the dragon's hand as a high-detailed scene; it just looked like a bit of extra shading in a background sort of way. If anything was unusual about it it might be the extreme close-up scaling when Ember is in his palm, as opposed to flying in front of him. Kind of like Lion King's "Pride Rock syndrome", where it seemed to scale and shrink through the movies depending on the angle, scene, and mood.
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Postby Just Scuds (?) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:07 am

Garble and Ember are fighting over a chasm and Spike jumps in to pull Garble's ears, but the pones don't seem too concerned.


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Ransom wrote:It would have been interesting to see what Twilight would have done if Garble had actually won.

*Garble clocks Ember and grabs the scepter*

Image :"HA HA! Behold your new Dragonlord - Garble the Terrible! You ponies are gonna regret you'd ever-"

*FWOOSH*

Image :"He disappeared! What the heck just happened?!"

:shock: :"Oh! I guess that scepter must have been cursed with a magical teleportation trap!"

:rariwhat: :"Magical teleportation trap? Why, I never heard of such a th-"
:-/ ...
Image :"Why yes! Of course! A Magical teleportation trap probably set up by the Dragonlord as a final test of any dragon dumb enough to just run up and snatch the thing."

Image :"Yeah! What's the challenge in just making it through the cave, grabbing the treasure, and waltzing out of here? Pret-ty slick! Garble is probably faaaaar faaaaaaar away from here!"

Image :"I've known my dad all my life and he's never done anything like that!"

Image :"Yes, well fathers do have a way of surprising their daughters."
:vogue: :"Spike, can you please do the honors and retrieve that scepter?"

:yikes: :"... uh ..."
Image :"Stop! What if it's still cursed or something? If Spike grabs the scepter he might-"

Image :"Oh no-no! That could never happen! Once a teleportation trap is tripped, it can't be sprung again."

:twiright: :"It's just one of those rules of magic."
:here: :"I don't think Princess Celestia is going to think this was..."
Image :"Telepor- HEY! How did you ponies make it through the cave without a scra-"
:excite: Image :"ALL HAIL DRAGONLORD SPIKE!" Image
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:12 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:Did anyone think this shot was a bit unusual? I've seen cartoons like Ren & Stimpy or SpongeBob SquarePants that'll sometimes draw an extremely detailed frame of a character, usually for dramatic emphasis, and leave it on screen for a few seconds. This isn't something FiM's really ever done before, so I had been a bit surprised when this came up and Torch's hand was suddenly drawn in such big detail. I'm not saying it's a bad thing or anything, just that it struck me as unusual for this show.

Actually they do stuff like this all the time in the show, people just don't seem to notice it much. I think in the Griffon Brush Off episode while Pinkie was leaving Twilight's house she passed an elaborately decorated well shed in the background for about two seconds and it hasn't been seen in the show since. I don't know if they do it out of boredom, but from time to time there will be some random overly detailed thing in the background of some mundane scene that never gets any explanation nor is never seen again.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:10 pm

Mechanical Ape wrote:Agreed! On rewatches I keep finding my eye drawn to him. Pillow dino dragon is just neat looking. He's a winner.

I'm actually rather impressed by the varied designs on the dragons in this episode. Oddly enough I sort of think Garble's could be better. Like his arms are too short...if he returns, I want him to age up a bit and get a more intimidating redesign.
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Postby Strangepony (?) » Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:50 am

I still want Spike to have a dragon mentor. Secret of my Excess showed that no one in Ponyville has any clue how dragons even work. There's gotta be some good story potential in there. :here:
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:06 am

That is a good idea, but it seems from this episode dragons really don't have mentors or even friends. Dragons just seem to do what they want. Build up your hoard, live in isolation, migrate, prove your strength and answer the call of the Dragon Lord. Besides those things it seems like they don't have any real culture.

Then again, it does make me wonder who made all that dragon armor for them?
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Postby Ransom (?) » Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:19 pm

Soft Snow wrote:That is a good idea, but it seems from this episode dragons really don't have mentors or even friends. Dragons just seem to do what they want. Build up your hoard, live in isolation, migrate, prove your strength and answer the call of the Dragon Lord. Besides those things it seems like they don't have any real culture.

Then again, it does make me wonder who made all that dragon armor for them?
:ponder:

That actually could work, as it plays into standard mythology about dragons being loners, but allows them to be called together for emergencies. Though the idea that the Dragon Lord only really rules the young sort of appeals to me too.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:44 pm

Soft Snow wrote:That is a good idea, but it seems from this episode dragons really don't have mentors or even friends. Dragons just seem to do what they want. Build up your hoard, live in isolation, migrate, prove your strength and answer the call of the Dragon Lord. Besides those things it seems like they don't have any real culture.

Then again, it does make me wonder who made all that dragon armor for them?
:ponder:

Dragons: Basically the dwarves of Equestria.
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Postby Strangepony (?) » Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:15 am

Soft Snow wrote:That is a good idea, but it seems from this episode dragons really don't have mentors or even friends.


But the situation is right for it now. He doesn't know anything about dragons, in spite of being one. Ember has a nation (more or less) to run, and now she has a close personal connection to her most powerful neighbor. So many good plot hooks there! I want to see more!

:-I Dear Princess Celestia, more dragon episodes, please.
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:43 am

With how popular Princess Ember seems to be I'm sure she will pop up again. Maybe even in the next season, who knows.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:51 am

I'd be fairly surprised to see her again this season, but maybe there'll be a trip out to the Dragon Lands again or something.
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:45 am

Watch she will be in the final like they did with all the special guest characters in season 4.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:30 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:I'd be fairly surprised to see her again this season, but maybe there'll be a trip out to the Dragon Lands again or something.

There are already eleventy million fanfics about her, so there's that. :eep:
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:07 am

I have to wonder if this is mostly because Ember is the first majorly new character of the season (technically, Flurry Heart was the newest, but 1. we knew about her before the season started and 2. she's just a baby) or if there's something about her that has legitimately touched a nerve with our fandom. Like, if this episode had been the 18th-23rd to air, would she still have gotten quite so much attention?
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Postby Strangepony (?) » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:35 pm

Does the diamond pattern on Ember remind anyone else of Rarity's cutie mark?

Hasty edit:

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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:11 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:I have to wonder if this is mostly because Ember is the first majorly new character of the season (technically, Flurry Heart was the newest, but 1. we knew about her before the season started and 2. she's just a baby) or if there's something about her that has legitimately touched a nerve with our fandom. Like, if this episode had been the 18th-23rd to air, would she still have gotten quite so much attention?

I think so. This fandom does like to attach to random characters like that. Just think of Coco Pommel and Maud Pie. She is well designed and a well rounded personality. It might also be appealing because of how different she is from all the other characters, her being not being a pony living in a pony world.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:36 am

Strangepony wrote:Does the diamond pattern on Ember remind anyone else of Rarity's cutie mark?

Yes, but I think it's more coincidence than anything. The sides of her legs would be kind of an empty space otherwise, she has more diamond-shaped scales on her head and tail, and her color scheme (much like Rarity's mark) is rather blue.
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Postby Ransom (?) » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:00 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:I have to wonder if this is mostly because Ember is the first majorly new character of the season (technically, Flurry Heart was the newest, but 1. we knew about her before the season started and 2. she's just a baby) or if there's something about her that has legitimately touched a nerve with our fandom. Like, if this episode had been the 18th-23rd to air, would she still have gotten quite so much attention?

I think her being a female, non-jerk dragon character with a sleek design helps a lot. Dragons carry a lot of interest especially since they are underused. Cool dragon princess character=instant love.
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Postby Daring Do (?) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:37 am

Ransom wrote:I think her being a female, non-jerk dragon character with a sleek design helps a lot. Dragons carry a lot of interest especially since they are underused. Cool dragon princess character=instant love.


*looks at avatar* And I'm sure you're not biased at all ;P
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Postby Ransom (?) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:15 pm

Daring Do wrote:
*looks at avatar* And I'm sure you're not biased at all ;P

Who, me? Whatever do you mean? :here: :eep:
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Postby Zimbie (?) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:04 pm

Ember is a tsundere :smirk:
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