My Little Pony: The Movie (2017): The Thread: The Discussion

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Re: My Little Pony: The Movie (2017): The Thread: The Discus

Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:03 am

Also, I don't think that, "Are your nails painted pink?" line from the trailers is in the film.
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Postby drunkill (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:48 am

It is not, so a few small cuts exist because Daniel Ingram said he wrote a song for the intro which was cut and replaced by a cover of You got the Beat by the Go-Go's last minute.
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Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:57 am

Capper's infamous "Y'all ponies are crazy" wasn't in either.
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:48 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:The new characters are more decent than I expected. Capper fits the weird, Treasure Planet vibe of the pirate port, and he comes into his own later in the film. The pirates are also a fun bunch. But I wish we saw more of them! The pacing gets pretty weird in the second quarter of the film, and I checked my watch because it felt like the part of the show where they realize they have 5 minutes to wrap things up. Capper wins everyone except Twilight over with a song, Rainbow wins the pirates over with a song... I wish we'd gotten a little more time to chat with them. What was the pirates' deal? Why do they work for the Storm King? How far does his empire extend? These are things I feel like the show would've stepped aside for a moment to address, but the movie rushes past.


Agreed on this and the pacing problems. The movie needed either the pirates or the Hippogriffs, but not both.

So, overall? It was a fun watch. I'm glad they were able to push their artistry harder than before. But for a movie that took at least four years to make, I'm a little confused by the pacing and the breathless way it rushes past supporting cast. I do hope that, if the show lasts long enough, we get a second movie that can be the Rainbow Rocks to this film's Equestria Girls.


That'd be nice. I also agree that the sequel(s) will most likely be D2V. I'd also actually like to see an egg girls that has this animation system and style behind it.
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Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:00 pm

Seems all the backstory for the new characters was indeed locked behind the comic paywall because I expected at least a quick reference to what happened in Celano's comic, explaining how she ended up working for the Storm King, but nope. Pretty much everything in the IDW prequels was kept to those issues.
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:30 pm

DerFurShur wrote:Seems all the backstory for the new characters was indeed locked behind the comic paywall because I expected at least a quick reference to what happened in Celano's comic, explaining how she ended up working for the Storm King, but nope. Pretty much everything in the IDW prequels was kept to those issues.

I figured that would be the case. Why the Storm King was such a great threat was in the comics. Even Capper's reasons for being into debt is also left inside the comics. I think maybe the comics were just trying to do their best to fill in the gaps of the movie.
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Postby Mr. Big (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:15 pm

I had no idea "Hanazuki" was a thing until I found out there's a short of it before the movie. It looks cute, I guess, but nothing more.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:38 pm

I watched it earlier this afternoon. Hell of a lot of fun, that was. It makes me wish I were as articulate as Kefka, but I'll take my best shot at writing what I think anyway.

I guess I'll get my quibbles out of the way first. If this movie has one main flaw, it's that I think it could've used more running time, perhaps closer to two hours than the (standard for family films?) 90 minutes or so that it had. Capper's, Caelano's, and Skystar's introductions, though they definitely did what they needed and were entertaining as they were, felt like they could've been a bit longer, y'know? I would've liked one or two more details about Klugetown (the city at the end of the desert) or the hippogriffs in their heyday, and I feel the movie likely wanted to drop a couple such details, but it seems like most everything that wasn't in service of the story got cut.

I can't help but wonder how much that originally was part of the story got cut too; for example, I noticed how Rarity, Rainbow Dash, and Pinkie Pie were important to the three heroes we met, but what of Applejack and Fluttershy? Were they originally to have parts where they sealed the help of two other potential allies? Seems like they had hardly any time to shine once shit got real, at least not like Twilight and the other three did. I would've appreciated similar sequences for the two of them, but I guess kindness and (especially) honesty take a little too long to touch the hearts of those who need it most. At least we still got enough of all of them to where I didn't think they felt as shallow as a puddle, vs. what I thought was a major problem with EqG, to compare it to the last time these cartoon horses were on the big screen.

Still, I guess there's something to be said for editing your script using a machete, with the end result being a film with lots of adventuring and action that still finds some time to make you care and make you smile. Maybe this is a reflection of more general trends in television and cinema, with TV's long ongoing format being more conducive to deeper characters and stories that take time to resolve, and movies being better for action since they have enough time to tie that action together with story. Overall, way cool and I hope we get to meet these new pals again in S8 and beyond.


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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:35 pm

I thought there was a good message of "Accept who you are and make the most of it." in the fact that Tempest's horn wasn't fixed at the end. :spoiler:

I guess they didn't have any Krazy Glue. :snicker:
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Postby Juju&Lulu (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:46 pm

I'm surprised Hasbro let themselves be portrayed as the villain. That's a level of self-examination I can admire.
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:50 pm

I'm surprised this move got a mild violence rating. They lit dudes on fire until they ran around, fell over and stopped moving (they forgot the roll part). Those dudes died, bro. Is there anything more violent then burning dudes to death?
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:12 pm

This was disappointing in every way that I thought it would be.


The story was just bad. Let's get it out of the way. Meghan does the same thing she always does and has the Princesses get captured. I'm not going to spend much time on this. You've heard what I say about this. We know if Meghan had put some thought into the script she could have done something better, but she's in charge of this franchise now, and they are to be Damsels in Distress, there to build cheap tension and that's it. Just need to learn to accept it. Won't stop me from ranting about it in 3 weeks when they no doubt get captured by whatever villain is in the S7 finale. But let's move on.

It's still a very disappointing story. Storm King was just an awful villain. There is absolutely nothing threatening about him.

- Nightmare Moon could bring eternal darkness.
- Discord can screw with reality (and as a side note, if you're going to worf the princesses, why not worf him too so we're not wondering where he is?)
- Sombra made an entire empire disappear for 1000 years.
- Chrysalis has an army of shape shifting bugs.
- Tirek could suck up everyone's magic
- Hell, even Starlight figured out how to screw with time

Storm King is menacing because we're told he is. He's threatening because we're told he is. And no, the comics really don't help establish him as a threat. It's pretty much just more "he's threatening because we say he is. Hell, just make Tempest the main villain. She at least had some set up. Equestria effectively surrenders for the sake of the plot. Few airships come in, and 1/3 of the population forgets they can control the weather. The finale has a dozen characters fight off Storm King's army without magic, but a few hundred ponies at the start of the film do squat. The entire set up for this film was just awful.

But it gets us to the adventure, which was OK. Ultimately there's just not enough time to get to know any of the new characters. I see some of you are saying they should have cut the seaponies or the pirates. I say cut Capper and Anthro-town. I liked the pirates (Pirate Uhura was my favorite) and the seaponies (Skystar is absolutely adorable). Capper wasn't bad, but he and that town just felt so out of place. I imagine he intent was for it to feel so alien compared to Equestria, but the Seaponies and Pirates at least felt like they belonged in this world.

I didn't really mind the scene where everyone walks away from Twilight. They know she just screwed up everything, and she knows she screwed everything up. It worked for me, and I appreciated it as a good character moment. Even Twilight's moment of anger and yelling at Pinkie.

I will give Meghan some credit for this though. Another issue I've had with her 2-part stories is that she dumps the rest of the cast to focus on Twilight. I think a much better job was done here trying to give time to the entire main cast. Wasn't perfect. I thought Applejack, Fluttershy and Spike all kind of got short changed. Unlike the others, they didn't really have a new character to play off of. Twilight had Tempest, Dash had the Pirates, Rarity had Capper, and Pinkie has Skystar. But overall, I think they all at least got a few nice moments.



What I would have done:
Spend some time making the storm king a real threat and having him take over Canterlot, but let the Princesses flee with citizens. Have Celestia send Twilight and the others to get the magic hippogriff mcguffin, but while away the other Princesses forma kind of resistance movement. During the film maybe have a few quick scenes showing what's going on in Equestria, hell maybe even have the other Princesses slowly get captured, but at least let them do so while fighting back and protecting others. Don't have them get turned to stone, let them talk to the guards, and maybe slowly start sowing seeds of friendship themselves. Most of all, when the finale comes, don't have the entire fight fought by a bunch of new characters, let the ponies fight back. Do what they did at the end of "Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep" except grander, and just have everyone rise up. This is a big screen event. Let everyone get to see their favorite ponies doing something to save their land.



Few other observations.
-The orchestral score was fantastic. I might buy that if they ever release it.
-Songs were hit and miss. I liked "One Small Thing" a lot. Tempest's song was also pretty good. Others weren't bad, but kind of forgettable.
-Liked the movie artstyle, and I think they did a great job with the new look (though some of the CGI stuff, like the airships were kind of meh)
-End Credits Animation
- :prettywings: After credits shot let the movie end on a high note. :prettywings:
Last edited by The Doctor on Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby RudeCyrus (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:41 am

Finished watching the movie. It was pretty good. I was worried the celebrity cameos would overshadow the main cast, but that wasn't the case. Art and animation was great, and the action scenes were good, but it wasn't perfect. There were some pacing problems during the second act, and I wanted to spend more time with the pirates and hippogriffs.The fat hedgehog thing annoyed the piss out of me -- you could cut him out and lose nothing. Storm King was garbage and too Discord-esque. I don't know where this aversion towards truly scary and intimidating villains came from but Jesus Christ, it's something that needs to stop. Having the main villain act like a goofball stops me from giving a shit.

Still, it's a solid B-. I wish there was more time dedicated towards character interaction and the reason for breaking up the group was contrived. Also, the songs were meh.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:03 am

I kinda feel like the Storm King was hardly even the main villain. In his organization, sure he was at the top, but for this story our heroes were mainly attacked and chased by Tempest Shadow. It's like with Star Wars; Darth Vader was the main villain there, with Palpatine/Darth Sidious as the emperor and his boss. Now, maybe Hasbro can turn out a prequel trilogy that explains the Storm King's rise to power starting with a trade dispute in some backwater corner of Equestria, and maybe he'd thus become more important, but I think his limited role was fine here.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:33 am

The Doctor wrote:Equestria effectively surrenders for the sake of the plot. Few airships come in, and 1/3 of the population forgets they can control the weather. The finale has a dozen characters fight off Storm King's army without magic, but a few hundred ponies at the start of the film do squat.


I think the Storm King's deal (rather than controlling storms, apparently) is supposed to be that his goons all wear magic-reflecting kryptonite armor and shields. Twilight tries to fight back in the beginning, and it all backfires. There's also that odd "no magic around the merchandise!" line in slumtown.

(By the way, what ARE he and his goons supposed to be? Rats? Apes? Yetis?)

It's true that the movie, despite going "beyond Equestria," kinda pulls off that trick by compressing the country down to basically Canterlot alone. I guess it's my least urgent complaint, given how quickly they had to rush through the secondary characters.

Also, after sleeping on it, I think this movie works best if we assume it's sometime around the end of season 3. That's probably when they started writing it, and the main lessons for Twilight are, "Trust your friends to support you, and vice versa" (very season 1-2) and, "The Princess of Friendship truly does serve an important purpose in Equestria" (season 4), or maybe, "Be the friendship you want to see in the world" (also season 4).
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Postby Dexanth (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:47 am

The animation is gorgeous. The original cast is splendid in acting terms. The new characters? Skystar & Tempest are great, Capper is decent, the rest are various shades of 'Eh'.

The problem with the movie is that the plot is generic and from a writer's perspective it is bad on so many levels, and that means I was bored.

What it boils down to is : The movie never ever justifies anything, it asks its audience to accept everything just 'because' (With the exception of Tempest & Skystar). The Storm King? He's a joke of a villain. He has no motivation apart from 'Power for the sake of power'. We don't know why he wants power, we don't know why he's an asshole, he just is. He doesn't want anything, he has absolutely 0 depth to him, and the moment he is closest to 'winning' he just goes into a 'Look what I can do wheeeeee!' mode.

He's literally Donald Trump, and just as much of a shallow dotard as Donald Trump.

Capper is similar - we don't know (Unless you read the comics) why he's a jaded jerk, but the difference here is that there's depth to his character the animation conveys - you can see his self-doubt early on, particularly when Rarity selflessly starts by mending his coat. So we never get a why - but at least there's something to it, and you can see it.

Ditto Birb pirates. 'We were dashing, but now we're not' is the extent of their characterization and then boom, suddenly they are inspired again and again, like, there's no depth to them, they just decide to Birb Pirate because Rainbow Dash. They're in fact in many ways worse than Capper - you can see Capper is selling them out b/c he is in debt, and the moment he realizes how nice they are he starts hating himself for it, because that's not who he is.

By comparison? Skystar & Tempest are phenomenal and Novo decent, because - well, they have depth.

Novo comes in #3 here; you instantly can understand her motivation of 'I have to keep my subjects safe and if we join you and lose then I've failed them, I'm sorry', and you can see her start to soften thanks to Pinkie Pie until Twilight messes it all up. So she gets a plus.

Tempest is #2 - She has actual motivation in wanting to have her broken horn mended, she believes a huckster, and she has a major jealous chip on her shoulder about what everypony else in Equestria has that she doesn't. Her methods are terrible, obviously, and she does have a bit of plot-induced stupidity in believing the Storm King when he is so transparently dumb, and my biggest gripe is she'd be far better had she been the entire villain and the whole Storm King et all not be present in any way. She has enough of a legit grievance to go it alone - rather like Starlight but far more magnified, and magnified for more believable reasons. Her hating Equestria because, well, Equestria failed her? That works. That's a legit character motivation.

And Skystar is #1, because the instant you meet her you understand who she is. Skystar is the one character who unequivocally passes the Plinkett test. She is an irrepressibly bubbly child who is aching to get out there and see the world, who is actively chafing under the restrictions placed on her, and who is feeling extremely lonely and trapped by the world she is growing up in. Everything about her sells this from moment one. She is easily the strongest of the new characters in both voice and design and everything else, and for that I applaud the movie.

As for our Mane cast? They, like the rest of Equestria, suffer repeatedly from a case of plot-enforced stupidity. My biggest issue with the movie as a whole is this - that every major character suddenly has all the development they have undergone over 7 seasons largely eradicated. Twilight Sparkle completely freezes up against Tempest; the mare who faced down Tirek, Nightmare Moon, and Discord defiant and fearless just rolls over and cowers the entire movie before Tempest.

We never ever see Twilight do anything to defend herself at all. She never teleports, she never uses magic offensively, she just gets kicked from scene to scene to scene. The other Princesses except Cadance are even worse, with Celestia being the biggest offender - rather than, you know, do anything she stands there and yells at Luna so she can get effortlessly jobbed. Cadance? Cadance gets a pass because she has agency - she tries to throw up a shield. Ultimately, it doesn't work, but the difference is she gets to be an active versus passive character. None of the other Princesses do, including Twilight.

Twilight is passive almost the entire film except for 3 points:
1. 'It's on me, I have to save the world' - This is a mix; she's reacting to the situation, but she's charting a course out for herself. However, once she does that, she goes back into reaction mode until -
2. Stealing the Pearl. This is one of the better moments in the movie, and one the movie IMO gets wrong in reaction to it. The thing is? Twilight should have tried to steal the pearl, because her friends have given her absolutely no reason all movie to believe in them. Pinkie and Rainbow Dash are far and away the most egregious here, where they are continually sabotaging the group rather than doing anything to help out. Like, Dash doing a Sonic Rainboom being far and away the worst here, but for both there's this continual 'Hey, lets sabotage our mission by giving away where we are when we know we're actively being chased!'

So why should Twilight believe now is any different? Her losing faith and making a decision based on that? That was good. That was actual decent end-of-act-2 motivation. And thus...

3. Reaching out to Tempest - This follows #2, but it's her moment of deciding to trust in others again even when she has every reason not to. And similar to number 2, that makes it good. It shows us who Twilight is. It shows us what she values. She has doubted, and now she refuses to doubt any more; she is going to show why she is the Princess of Friendship.

Except, well, that wouldn't have worked if the villain were at all competent. Like, if the Storm King had say, not immediately turned around and laughed in Tempest's face Twilight is still screwed. But Twilight made Tempest doubt, which sowed initial seeds. (On the other hand, Tempest's 'sacrifice' was a perfect example of a forced bit of plot in many ways, hitting the audience over the head with a hammer, but eh, I'll give that a pass).

For the rest of the Mane 6, they either just are barely present (AJ, Fluttershy), or actively continually stupid (Rainbow, Pinkie). The only member who is neither is Rarity, once again showing why she is the best. :vogue:



However, the worst part? The entire 'epic journey' is pointless. In the end, all it comes down to is 'Their new friends somehow beat an army which totally wrecked Canterlot and thus enable Pinkie et all to Party cannon themselves into the Storm King' which culminates in the climax being 'Who can grab the stick first'.

The entire movie hinges on a game of fetch in the end. (Also the magic artifact is another great example of 'This is a thing BECAUSE'. Why does it need to drain the Princesses to work? Why does the palace inexplicably have a magic circle the staff works with etched into the floor? Where did the staff come from? Really, this is true of anything magic in this movie; the 'Haha fuck you alicorns' stone-orbs are another great example of bad mcguffins).

Like, you could cut out the entire journey, have Twilight captured 10 minutes in, and have Pinkie and co party cannon then and get the same result. So what is the point in all these new characters? :bwuh:

The film is pretty. Extremely, extremely pretty.

But the story is atrocious because as soon as you get past the surface layer, there is absolutely no depth at all to the vast majority of it. It's a store-bought cake of a plot, and it has the same unpleasant aftertaste, and while you are eating it, it's really easy to want to stop midway through - the only reason you don't is damnit, it looks pretty.

Tl;dr : Massive props to DHX & Actors, you all did great, it's too bad you had to try to polish a story completely unworthy of your talents.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:53 am

My favorite highlight quote from the Rotten Tomatoes reviews.

"My Little Pony: The Movie is as advertised: It's a movie, and it contains ponies."



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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:23 am

The Doctor wrote:Storm King is menacing because we're told he is. He's threatening because we're told he is. And no, the comics really don't help establish him as a threat. It's pretty much just more "he's threatening because we say he is. Hell, just make Tempest the main villain. She at least had some set up. Equestria effectively surrenders for the sake of the plot. Few airships come in, and 1/3 of the population forgets they can control the weather. The finale has a dozen characters fight off Storm King's army without magic, but a few hundred ponies at the start of the film do squat. The entire set up for this film was just awful.

I can argue in favor of Storm King's potential threat. The only creatures that can actively use magic is one-third of the pony population and everywhere outside of Equestria is stuck on 12th-century technology. Giving that setting, the Storm King having a fleet of airships that can just drop down on your capital and kidnap your royalty is a pretty big game changer... outside of Equestria.

They make the ponies seem absolutely helpless in this movie. Where is the royal guard? Where are the Wonderbolts? We know the Wonderbolts were there, we know they are an elite fighting force, we know they are willing to take on a dragon. Why didn't they do anything to try to stop them? Every gets the victim card because the story demands it! Even at the end it doesn't seem like Storm King's soldiers were that effective. All this army being held off by effectively four characters. Why? Because one can fly?
:rant:

There was a few jokes I did laugh at.
:3:

But I never did get use to seeing those stars in their eyes. I donno, they were so out of place it was distracting me the whole time.
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Postby PaulloDEC (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:55 am

Review:

I liked it. Didn't love it, not sure it's a particularly great film on its own, but I enjoyed watching it and I'm looking forward to watching it again.

What I liked
• Lots of good performances. The TV cast are all on great form, and most of the guest cast put in nice efforts. The Storm King might not be much of a character, but Liev Schreiber really brings him to life. Pena as Grubber is great fun, Blunt is nice and moody as Tempest, Saldana is stoic (and has a lovely singing voice) as Celaeno and Chenoweth is surprisingly likeable as Skystar. All the others are good too.
• I like that Twilight is basically in a state of panic and misery for the whole movie. It's nice to see a hero who responds to the extreme pressure of having to save the world with something other than heroic fortitude once in a while.
• Daniel Ingram delivers. Great songs, great score. This man can't be stopped. That track over the intro graphics is so good.
• There's a few nice laughs in there. "Emotional scarring" and "Raised in a barn" got me good.
• I love the credits too much. They're so pretty.


What I didn't like
• Story is nothing special. It's a fine adventure story, but it rarely moves beyond that. Characterisation of guest characters is pretty sparse.
• Visuals are hit or miss. Sometimes backgrounds are lovely painted artwork, other times they're uninspired 3D models shown from unflattering angles. Characters animate quite fluidly, but don't always look fantastic.
• Stuffing pop music into films like this rarely works for me. Could've done without Sia entirely, and that cheesy-ass "We've got the beat" thing in the intro was a massive step down from the gorgeous orchestral track over the opening logos.

drunkill wrote:It is not, so a few small cuts exist because Daniel Ingram said he wrote a song for the intro which was cut and replaced by a cover of You got the Beat by the Go-Go's last minute.


God dammit.
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Postby Octavia (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:56 am

I loved it. It was visually stunning and was really whimsical. :-D

The story was very typical of a children's adventure movie, but it really hit all the friendship and redemption themes that the show focuses on.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:38 am

PaulloDEC wrote:• There's a few nice laughs in there. "Emotional scarring" and "Raised in a barn" got me good.

Bad spell service. :v:

edit: Also, I said the movie had been in development for four years, but I think I was a little off on those numbers. We know Meghan McCarthy submitted the original script to Sony sometime around February 2014, and they were still hemming and hawing about it around October (when Hasbro had decided to fund it on their own). Jayson Thiessen, Mike Vogel, and Meghan McCarthy moved over movie production full time after season 5, although when exactly they made that transition is hard to say.
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Postby adiwan (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:07 am

I mostly agree with Dexanth's great comment.
The art style is something to get used to and has an uncanny touch that doesn't mix very well when there is a lot of rotation and parallax.

Most characters in the movie were utterly pointless and serve only as window dressing because there is no thing integral to the plot.
Heck, the plot had to be simplified a lot to make it flow better.

Alternate plot time:
As already said before the Storm King was not threatening. Tempest did a better job in that regard. So it'd have been in the best interest combining those two characters in the first place.
A mad and ruthless micro-managing commander Tempest would be a great match with the kind and micro-managing princess Twilight.
They could still have an airship army in my opinion. Tempest could capture an airship one by one in her quest to gain control over her life and loss of her magical powers and substituting it with brute force. It has only be shown instead of being told.
And the parrot pirates could have been introduced as the one and only allies the Mane 6 could acquire.
Capper, and the *gag* seaponies are totally pointless in the original plot, as well the misfortune gem McGuffin in the comics although the comics offered more interesting stories in themselves.
I rather imagine fleshing out the parrot pirates's personalities than introducing more characters that compete for precious screen time.

I would give the movie a C-. There were good moments but the amount of bad decisions dragged it down.

PS:
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:29 am

Octavia wrote:I loved it. It was visually stunning and was really whimsical. :-D

The story was very typical of a children's adventure movie, but it really hit all the friendship and redemption themes that the show focuses on.


This.

I believe that we are, as adult fans, wont to forget something that Big Jim has repeated on several occasions (and which goes back to Faust herself): We are not the audience, the kids are. A toon villain does not need much of a backdrop to be a villain. (Speaking outside of toons, where was Darth Vader's motivation and backstory in the first Star Wars movie? There was none, except a tendency to dress dramatically, some breathing issues, and a certain propensity to blow up planets – none of which explained why. Still one of the most memorable villains in movie history). The kids are certainly genre savvy enough to recognise a Baddie, when they see one, and going beyond that is story fat that can be trimmed without loss. Tempest Storm needed a bit more, because she, right from the first scene between her and the Storm King, is a tragic villain, who despite of her claims of seeing clearly is blind. If she can be brought to see, she may be redeemed. The Storm King needs no additional backstory, anymore than Yosemite Sam, Sylvester, Professor Ratigan, the Red Queen, or Percival C. McLeach does. He wants, because he wants. That is enough.

Having to explain everything is a lazy storytelling technique, because it expects the audience to be unable to understand Story and its conventions. We do not ask why the black queen on the chess board is the colour she is, or whether she would prefer another hue or role, we play the game. I do not think Darth Vader improved as a character because the Star Wars Ⅰ-Ⅲ – he was far better when he was a menacing cipher.
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Postby Highbrow Dash (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:44 am

Yeah I basically agree with Octavia too. The story wasn't deep and it didn't care about continuity but who cares? It was a hell of a ride, super cute and the music and jokes were great :allears:

I don't think a more elaborate story or focusing on Tempest as a villain would have improved it. They should've given AJ and Fluts more time to shine yeah, and as much as I loved the songs the ponies should have a bit more agency, they needed some more scenes to breathe and do their thing without just solving every problem through song.

But still. It was :ponydrugs: as hell.
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:43 pm

I didn't care for the Storm King, I couldn't take him seriously as a villain, the way he acted goofy and played around with raising the sun and moon like someone playing with a new cell phone. Tempest was much better.

They should have brought back Celestia and Luna back from stone first and Celly says "We'll do the sun and moon raising around here." and then turned him to stone. :pcstare:
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Postby Octavia (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:29 pm

One of the biggest reasons I love MLP is because it's one of the few pieces of media left that's 100% pleasant. I'm sick of turning on the TV and hearing about another mass shooting or seeing another shouting match in our polarized political climate. I'm tired of rooting for antiheroes like Walter White and Frank Underwood. A world of talking animals doesn't have to be gritty and depressing like Bojack Horseman to be enjoyable. MLP allows me to forget all the dark and saddening things about reality that I hate, if only for a short while. I was sitting in the theater with a big dumb grin on my face throughout the entire film. It made me happy, which isn't something that most modern media does to me anymore.

Equestria is not the real world. It's a sugary, pastel-saturated land of magic and anthropomorphic beasts, so there has to be a suspension of disbelief, especially when you consider the target audience. It's fine if you didn't like the movie, but don't ruin it for the target audience or for me by telling us why we shouldn't like it or find it believable. Santa Claus being able to visit every house on Earth in one night is a logistical absurdity, but you're a grade-A jerk if you take away the whimsy and innocence of his magical ride by explaining why it doesn't make sense.
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Postby Big Boss (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:57 pm

Having to explain everything is a lazy storytelling technique, because it expects the audience to be unable to understand Story and its conventions. We do not ask why the black queen on the chess board is the colour she is, or whether she would prefer another hue or role, we play the game. I do not think Darth Vader improved as a character because the Star Wars Ⅰ-Ⅲ – he was far better when he was a menacing cipher.


I disagree with this completely. Darth Vader's interactions with Tarkin and Obi-Wan reveal much about his character and his actions are derived from the active plot initiated from the beginning of the movie. Darth Vader's character, however, did improve a lot because of Empire and Jedi, which focused even more on his actions and motivations. But you don't need the other two movies for his character to make sense within the context of the first.

People aren't asking for the movie to stop and give a soliloquy about the Storm King, they're asking for his actual character to derive from within actions and relations to other characters in the film. He could easily be cut from the film and have Tempest's role take over his and the movie would actually be better for it, even though Liev Schrieber had some excellent lines and scenes.

While I don't think the story is bad, it's certainly not a cut above and is at best serviceable for the movie's purpose. The movie is still really good in spite of its flaws because a lot of the main characters are written very well, and Tempest and Skystar are great additions who reveal more about the characters we already know. It pushes a lot of the same buttons that makes the franchise work in a bigger way, and that's why I still liked it a lot. But this edition of the franchise has always been character focused and for the movie to be uneven, character wise, can't be left unnoticed.
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Postby Niels Olof (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:43 pm

Big Boss wrote:
I disagree with this completely. Darth Vader's interactions with Tarkin and Obi-Wan reveal much about his character and his actions are derived from the active plot initiated from the beginning of the movie. Darth Vader's character, however, did improve a lot because of Empire and Jedi, which focused even more on his actions and motivations. But you don't need the other two movies for his character to make sense within the context of the first.


That would be Star Wars Ⅴ-Ⅵ though, and not Ⅰ-Ⅲ, which did nothing good for Darth Vader (or the franchise in general). I did not need to know that he was an annoying kid or a whiny teenager to appreciate him as a villain in Ⅳ. Darth Vader was cheapened as the series went by, starting with the schmalzy redemption in Ⅵ. Admittedly, I find that Ⅳ and Ⅴ the only good Star Wars movies, with Ⅵ decent only in comparison with Ⅰ-Ⅲ – a low bar, if there ever was one. For Darth Vader, the adage that familiarity breeds contempt is apt.

People aren't asking for the movie to stop and give a soliloquy about the Storm King, they're asking for his actual character to derive from within actions and relations to other characters in the film. He could easily be cut from the film and have Tempest's role take over his and the movie would actually be better for it, even though Liev Schrieber had some excellent lines and scenes.


Fair enough. The thing about the Storm King though is that he is an outsider. He has no idea about Equestria or its inhabitants, nor they him. He is an out of context problem, and as such he is a refreshing change from the stock '1000 years ago' ancient evil. If he thinks about Equestria at all, it is merely as a stepping stone towards achieving a brand better reflecting his winning personality. Besides, Tempest Storm needs someone to push her, to lie to her for her redemption to be effective. She is the Imperator who needs her Immortan Joe to finally rebel against. I care not why Joe is a monster – just that he is one and a memorable one at that.

While I don't think the story is bad, it's certainly not a cut above and is at best serviceable for the movie's purpose. The movie is still really good in spite of its flaws because a lot of the main characters are written very well, and Tempest and Skystar are great additions who reveal more about the characters we already know. It pushes a lot of the same buttons that makes the franchise work in a bigger way, and that's why I still liked it a lot. But this edition of the franchise has always been character focused and for the movie to be uneven, character wise, can't be left unnoticed.


At least he got more lines than Sauron, the Nine Ring Wraiths, and King Sombra combined. I am not particular bothered about backstories for villains – they are like the elements that the protagonists must strive against, and it matters not whence the storm came, only that it came. That is not to say, and I think this important to stress, that a backstory should not exist – clearly, a backstory is an important and necessary tool for the writers as they plot the story, ensuring that characters behave consistently, and some conflict can ensue and be resolved. My stance is that the writers need not show their work, only its result.

I have two main requirements for my villains: that they are consistent, and that they are memorable. The Storm King was a comical, if psychopathic power mad maniac threatening his closest associates with destruction from the get go, and maintained that throughout. However, and regrettably, he was not particularly memorable, and as such he is not as good (or bad) a villain as he might have been. Still, he serves as an adequate Baddie.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:46 pm

Niels Olof wrote:At least he got more lines than Sauron, the Nine Ring Wraiths, and King Sombra combined. I am not particular bothered about backstories for villains – they are like the elements that the protagonists must strive against, and it matters not whence the storm came, only that it came.


But... we did get a backstory for Sombra. People groused at the time that he was sort of a non-character, but they laid out pretty clearly who he was, where he came from, and why he's a problem now.

The Storm King is close, but they never explain who he is. I guess we're supposed to pick that up from the comics.
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Postby The Doctor (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:00 pm

You know, even without the comics, I would say Sombra was better established as a threat. He made the Crystal Empire disappear for a millennium. We see his power outside of Cadance's barrier. We see what makes him a threatening villain.

We don't get that with Storm King. Everyone's afraid of him because we're told they're afraid of him. We see the army take Canterlot without any resistance put up, and it's done for no other reason than to get the adventure going. It doesn't establish him as a threat because in the end the army is taken down by about 15 characters, and they're not doing it with any special items or magic behind them. They just do.
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Postby dragoonanime (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:21 pm

Equestria Daily justed posted that Big Jim confirmed on Twitter that the movie takes place between Seasons 7 and 8. I hope that means that movie characters will appear in Season 8.

https://www.equestriadaily.com/2017/10/ ... place.html
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Postby PonyHag714 (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:58 pm

I think we'll see Tempest at least next season.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:08 pm

If I had to bet on any one of the new characters to come back, it'd be Skystar. Capper and Caelano are both unique but might be hard to fit into the show since they'd need a lot of new assets, and Tempest Shadow wouldn't have much of a role that other villains-turned-friends haven't already had.
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:26 pm

Tempest would be decent, but I kinda suspect having her decide to go by her goofy real name is a death knell for future appearances in the show.
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Postby Soft Snow (?) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:59 pm

I heard this morning that the movie made 2.9 million on Friday and they are guessing around 10 million by the end of the week. Which might seem like a low ball, but you have to consider that this is also Lionsgate most successful animated film. Its second most successful was Alpha and Omega which happened to get seven direct-to-video sequels. Good chance even if this doesn't do stellar in theaters it still might get a few sequels. Hooves crossed!
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I loved the movie, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't mean I won't criticize any flaws I detect. But that shouldn't taken as disapproval. Every movie has flaws and I always try my best to defend them. I feel like saying "it is meant for kids" is just an excuse for bad story telling. This show was always made for kids but that never detracted from it telling an interesting story. That is why we fell in love with it in the first place. If you take away anything from what I'm saying it should be this, you are your own individual and you don't have to justify what you like to others, just go on liking what you want to like. If you loved the movie that is fine, if you don't like it that is also fine as well.


If I had to make a change I would have added about a half hour more run time and right after the ponies set out to their journey, have it cut to the Storm King. Have it showing the Storm King pillaging a city to show how evil he was, have Capper and his friend sneak aboard to try to steal his treasure, then have the pirates show up to try to rob him. In the confusion, Capper and his friend escape. The Storm King defeats the pirates and is all like "You work for me now!" After he defeats the pirates he does his phone call thing to Tempest. Capper and his friend try to buy something with the treasure. Capper's friend betrays him, steals the treasure and runs off with the items unpaid for. Leaving Capper in debt. Then it cuts back to the ponies in the desert. Giving the guest stars much more needed character development.
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Postby Fizzbuzz (?) » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:08 am

Soft Snow wrote:Its second most successful was Alpha and Omega which happened to get seven direct-to-video sequels. Good chance even if this doesn't do stellar in theaters it still might get a few sequels. Hooves crossed!
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Careful what you wish for. A&O's sequels are legendarily bad.

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Postby marshmallow (?) » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:21 am

Overall quite enjoyable, but they could have done Tempest's redemption so much better. The only reason Tempest broke good was because the Storm King betrayed her and Twilight saved her. She's supposed to be sympathetic because of the flashback sob story, but you could have done the same thing with the Storm King.

Twilight and Tempest needed to talk a lot more and maybe show Tempest having doubts about her path or what she plans to do when she gets her horn back, because as is she seems like a power hungry psycho throughout. Maybe they could have portrayed her more sympathetically -- like treating Grubber well and not zapping him, even when he screws up. Or in her flashback she could have saved other ponies from the bear, instead of being by herself. There could have been a theme about learning to trust others again.

The princesses losing at the start could have been done better without changing much. Show them going down fighting or helping their subjects or something, instead of Celestia literally turning away and getting shot in the side. Show Luna and Cel wrecking those minions but being overwhelmed anyway. This would also help the narrative besides being cool, since the staff is supposed to have the power of "a hundred armies," but when they go down like nothing that's not so believable.

Fluttershy didn't have much to do. Maybe have her tame some crazy wild bird beast so the gang can fly back to Equestria.

Here's a small missed opportunity. I remember Captain Celaeno's VA in the behind the scenes thing saying her character is great because she cares about her crew, but I don't remember that in the movie. Change it so when Tempest threatens to blow up their ship Celaeno steps forward and takes responsibility, she can say her crew were just following her orders, to punish her, etc. Tempest wouldn't care, but that would show Celaeno's loyalty.

I didn't mind Twilight's outburst, even though the whole scene was the cliche third act protagonists argue moment. The movie showed her growing increasingly frustrated with her friends throughout, and she knew she screwed up right away and felt horrible. People say things they don't mean in heated arguments.
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Postby Aramek (?) » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:27 am

Was absolutely adorable, and I wanna grab and smoosh all their faces.
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Postby marshmallow (?) » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:33 am

This review by Jenny Nicholson is a funny parody of overly critical fan reviews.



"Sia music video canon." :-P
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Postby SlateSlabrock (?) » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:29 am

I took a peek at the critics' reviews, since I noticed MetaCritic has the film sitting at 41/100, which seems a little harsh, my own complaints notwithstanding. The negative reviews seem to be divided between, "Ugh, why do I have to go watch this kiddy film?" (RogerEbert.com) and, "But Discord! What about the Tree of Harmony?!" (IGN)
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